My web site - finally uploaded

[Praeothmin]

What if Torpedoes acted as some sort of HEAT round?

[Picard]

You mean focusing entire energy output into one point like shaped charge? It is standard modus operandi after early TNG.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Picard, watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCm70favfYI

You see ships getting fragmented from photon torpedos.

Are you honestly claiming that any release of energy is not going to cause structural damage? You think that there weren't any pieces torn off of buildings with Hiroshima, which also released much of its energy in the form of gamma ray radiation?

[sonofccn]

@StarWarsStarTrek:

Not to sound too argumenative but are you going to respond to my post?

[Mike DiCenso]

You see ships getting fragmented from photon torpedos.

At... what time stamps do these occur? I see ships being partially vaporized by phasers and phase poleron beams, but I don't see any photon torpedoes or quantum torpedoes blowing ships right apart. Not unless you mean the little strafing runs by the fighters.
-Mike

[Picard]

And even if he was right, and these were photon torpedoes (despite being identified in script as quantum torpedoes - check Memory Alpha) we know that Star Trek visuals are not exactly as they should be... especially DS9 ones.

Torpedoes meanwhile only put some brand new holes into hulls. Just as it should be.

Are you honestly claiming that any release of energy is not going to cause structural damage? You think that there weren't any pieces torn off of buildings with Hiroshima, which also released much of its energy in the form of gamma ray radiation?

And Hiroshima is within the atmosphere. Gamma rays can't heat everything equally, beacouse intensity drops with distance, but unlike melted/vaporized parts of asteroid, air can expand only into... surrounding air. Whoops. Meanwhile, even if parts of asteroid do fragment from expanding gasses (that is, vaporized metal, most of which will go into vacuum anyway - and they will still have to vaporize parts of atseroid that were just melted) new torpedoes will have to vaporize these fragments, since they don't have time to wait until fragments disperse.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

I could debate the Science with you all day, but then explain the Rise asteroid.

It was fragmented, not vaporized. They expected for it to be vaporized, but it was instead fragmented because it was more durable than they expected. Therefore, this means that photon torpedos do shatter things when they can't vaporize them.

[Praeothmin]

Indeed...

[Picard]

It was made of different materials, it wasn't "more durable", so unless you can explain me how are gamma rays supposed to fragment asteroid...? And photon torpedoes impact on surface, so overpressure from gasses won't do much. Only possibility might be that "Rise" torpedo somehow buried itself inside asteroid.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Indeed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2RWM65Z ... r_embedded

[Praeothmin]

Indeed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2RWM65Z ... r_embedded

Hhhmm, I can't see the video from work, so what's it showing?

[Admiral Breetai]

Hhhmm, I can't see the video from work, so what's it showing?

Teal'c doing an awesome kojak parody and saying "indeed"

Chris Judge is awesome..he was Magnetos voice over and he played Teal'c

[Lucky]

Picard you need to understand that an object will have imperfections in it, and this is the reason why in "Rise" the crew of Voyager expected some fragmentation.

In the Episode "Rise" the crew of Voyager scanned the asteroid, and the scan seem to have showed the asteroid to be a solid hunk of metal, but the asteroid was in fact an engineered weapon designed to give those false readings, and then shatter when hit with what the defending race would think was the right amount of firepower.

I may be wrong about this, but as I understand it the asteroid shattered because of veins of more brittle materials in the asteroid.

I may be wrong, but I think the solution to the problem is to just use more firepower.. As I understand thing is you do not input enough energy you will shatter the target rather then vaporize or melt it because of thermal expansion.

[Picard]

True. But that depends - if you have materials where expansion is similar (like nickel and iron) then it will not shatter beacouse differences in expansion will not be large enough. On the other hand, asteroid or comet made from rocky parts connected by ice, or rocky asteroid which has enough ice inside it, will shatter due to pressure of evaporating ice. But differences must be very large for it to work.

[Picard]

Star Trek and Star Wars fleet size as well as general miliary comparision pages updated.

EDIT:
Links:

http://picard578.6te.net/startrek-vs-st ... fleet.html

http://picard578.6te.net/startrek-vs-st ... fleet.html

http://picard578.6te.net/startrek-vs-st ... itary.html