SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

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Lucky
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SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Lucky » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:30 pm

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... &start=325

It's rather interesting how Leo is claiming the Republic was weak, but the Empire would be much wealthier and stronger, and some of them are missing the point that the plan was 5,000,000 plus what ever remained of the original 3,000,000.
Connor MacLeod Posted: 2010-12-05 08:06pm wrote: Thats vs debating for oyu.

Of course, to be fair there are people who apply that same logic to other universes, even on here. Like trek. (STV PHOTORPS OMGOMG WEEEEEKKK!!!)
What is Connor talking about? The Star Trek movies with Kirk in them tend to all blur together for me.

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Cocytus » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:50 pm

The scene where the Enterprise fires a torpedo at "God."

View the scene here: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/thum ... =83&page=8

The torpedo impact is pathetically weak. It produces no visible crater and fails to even burn Kirk and co from about ten feet away. But given Kirk's "Kirk to Enterprise, listen carefully," line before the torpedo is fired, it stands to reason he ordered them to reduce the yield to only what was sufficient to stun the being, given that it took Klaa's BoP to kill it.

Anyone who uses said sequence to claim photon torpedoes are weak is an idiot, and it's nice to see someone acknowledging it.

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Nowhereman10 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:45 pm

Heh, watch 'em squirm, baby! They're finally getting a taste of their own medicine here. Practically every week, the TCW is dropping one big MOAB bomb after another on SW tech and logistics. The Republic going bankrupt if it buys just 5 million more clones and equip them. Makes me wonder what the Empire had to do to fund the completion of the first Death Star, and to build part of the second.

Given that the Republic has a substantial portion of it's funding set aside for social progams, it wouldn't suprise me terribly to learn that Palpatine gutted them, and that's one of the real reasons he worked to dissolve the Senate so that he could have complete control over all of the Imperial budget so that he could focus on building the second one.

So what have we learned? Dispite having tens of thousands of worlds under it's thumb, the Republic and Empire can't fund even a fraction of the the 150+ member worlds of the Federation, and most especially the Dominion can produce without suffering complete financial failure.

Pathetic.

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Praeothmin » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:58 pm

While I agree that makes the Republic look poor, I'm pretty sure the problem is financing the 5 million clones, plus support ships and equipment, not just the clones...

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Lucky » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:17 am

Praeothmin wrote:While I agree that makes the Republic look poor, I'm pretty sure the problem is financing the 5 million clones, plus support ships and equipment, not just the clones...
But the Republic should have had a military of several million before the clones just to deal with pirates, and other well financed criminals. Their planetary defense forces seem to be nearly useless.

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:58 pm

There really hasn't been much in the way of planetary defense, beyond fleets and ground forces as far as we can in the TCW series. Much of the combat action as been on the ground on Republic worlds, like Ryloth and Christophsis have shown that the planetary shields of the EU and the Saxonites is nothing more than a myth. Except of the city-sized shield deployed by the CIS forces on Christophsis, we have not heard a single word about such things. If they do exist, they are extremely limited in use to a small number of planets, or are theater shields that only can cover a small portion of a planet.

In the PT, not even so much as a mention of any shielding beyond the very small battlefield-coverage shields used by the Gungans in TPM. Although the RoTS novelization mentions surface-to-space TL batteries in the Battle of Coruscant, none are observed in the higher canon movie, and no such weaponary is used on any other world that we know of to date to stop CIS forces from landing, or setting up blockades.
-Mike

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Praeothmin » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:23 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:In the PT, not even so much as a mention of any shielding beyond the very small battlefield-coverage shields used by the Gungans in TPM. Although the RoTS novelization mentions surface-to-space TL batteries in the Battle of Coruscant, none are observed in the higher canon movie, and no such weaponary is used on any other world that we know of to date to stop CIS forces from landing, or setting up blockades.
-Mike
To be fair, maybe we simply did not notice the bolts those weapons fired among the multiple ones that were fired.
I certainly wasn't able to see where all the bolts that were fired came from...

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Picard » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:18 pm

I saw no bolts that were vertical to ground, just bolts fird by ships both on and off screen.

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:08 pm

Perhaps they were destroyed? The movie shows the last moments of the battle.

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Who is like God arbour » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:30 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:[...] the RoTS novelization mentions surface-to-space TL batteries in the Battle of Coruscant [...]
Really?

Can you give a quote?

I can only remember that a defence system was mentioned that was unable to destroy the falling wreckage.

But I can't remember that surface-to-space turbo laser batteries were mentioned.

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:00 pm

The vast space battle that had ripped and battered Coruscant space all this long, long day, finally began to flicker out.

The shimmering canopy of ion trails and turbolaser bursts was fading into streaks of ships achieving jump as the Separatist strike force fled in full retreat. The light of Coruscant's distant star splintered through iridescent clouds of gas crystals that were the remains of starfighters, and of pilots. Damaged cruisers limped toward spaceyards, passing shattered hulks that hung dead in the infinite day that is interplanetary space. Prize crews took command of surrendered ships, imprisoning the living among their crews and affixing restraining bolts to the droids.

The dayside surface of the capital planet was shrouded in smoke from a million fires touched off by meteorite impacts of ship fragments; far too many had fallen to be tracked and destroyed by the planet's surface-defense umbrella. The nightside's sheet of artificial lights faded behind the red-white glow from craters of burning steel; each impact left a caldera of unimaginable death. In the skies of Coruscant now, the important vessels were no longer warships, but were instead the fire-suppression and rescue craft that crisscrossed the planet.

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Who is like God arbour » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:22 pm

Although » surface-to-space turbo laser batteries « could be a part of a » planet's surface-defense umbrella «, one can not conclude that a » planet's surface-defense umbrella « has to consist of » surface-to-space turbo laser batteries «.

Quite the contrary: A » Planet's surface-defense umbrella « does not have to have any surface-to-air weapons or any surface-to-space weapons at all. Because this term could as well describe a defence-system which has the purpose to defend the surface of a planet. And that could happen with orbital weapon-platforms or in the atmosphere hovering weapon-platforms as well if not even better.

As I have written: I could remember the mentioning of a defence system that was unable to destroy the falling wreckage. But I could not remember the mentioning of » surface-to-space turbo laser batteries «.

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:02 am

Oh crap, forgot to post the most important part. :/


Now one last fragmentary ship screamed into the atmosphere, coming in too fast, too steep, pieces breaking off to spread apart and stream their own contrails of superheated vapor; banks of turbolasers on the surface-defense towers isolated their signature, and starfighters whipped onto interception courses to thin out whatever fragments the SD towers might miss, and far above, beyond the atmosphere, on the bridge of RSS Integrity, Lieutenant Commander Lorth Needa spoke urgently to a knee-high blue ghost scanned into existence by the phased-array lasers in a holocomm: an alien in Jedi robes, with bulging eyes set in a wrinkled face and long, pointed, oddly flexible ears.

"You have to stand down the surface-defense system, sir! It's General Kenobi!" Needa insisted. "His code verifies, Skywalker is with him-and they have Chancellor Palpatine!"

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Re: SD.net SW:TCW season three discussion. 5,000,000 clones

Post by Who is like God arbour » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:31 am

Agreed: There are indeed surface-defence towers with banks of turbo lasers on Coruscant according to the RoTS novelization.

Now the question is, if they have the range to reach the orbit or if they only shot on wreckage that was already in the atmosphere?

I admit that I haven't seen all TCW episodes. But from all the movies and TCW episodes I have seen, the ion cannon in TESB is the only weapon system I can remember to have seen that had the range to reach from the surface to the orbit.

On the other side, I can remember a few TCW episode where the droids had a kind of anti-aircraft-weapon (Proton cannon) with very limited range with which they shot at LAATs which attempted to land.

Insofar it still is more than questionable if the RoTS novelization can prove that there are » surface-to-space turbo laser batteries « on Coruscant. The weapons the novelization mentioned could be as well weapons similar to these we have seen in some TCW episodes, weapons with a very limited range.

That would be compatible with the limited range of the turbo laser towers on the surface of the Death Star. Only the rebels who had a low altitude were fired at while the rebels with a higher altitude were safe - although they were in the line of sight of much more turbo laser towers.

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