Galactic Empire vs Federation of Planets @ Spacebattles

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Who is like God arbour
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Federation of Planets @ Spacebattles

Post by Who is like God arbour » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:54 am

Some Warsies are like a pain in the arse because they regularly are forgetting already fought debates if they do not like the outcome.

The valid of the AotC ICS concerning the quad laser turrets of the Acclamator was already debated several times.
They know that. But of course, they do not like it and hence they are ignoring it.

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Re: Galactic Empire vs Federation of Planets @ Spacebattles

Post by Picard » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:20 pm

I understood that much from my expirience there, with Rama and General Schatten being prime example.

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Re: Galactic Empire vs Federation of Planets @ Spacebattles

Post by Lucky » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:56 pm

Picard wrote:I understood that much from my expirience there, with Rama and General Schatten being prime example.
You know it's funny that G.S. hasn't shown screen caps from the movies, or an example of what he claims to be guns firing. For all we know those things could be shield generators, or as unlikely as it might sound balconies.
SuperS4 http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=176730&page=27 Post660 wrote: If the picture is detailed enough, it wouldn't fall under "low resolution with little to no detail". Unfortunately, your image does not show enough detail.
By this reasoning General Schatten's pictures failed to prove there are guns of any sort, and they fail to prove the same model of ship had weapons in the movies, right?

General Schatten http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=176730&page=27 Post661 wrote:A superlaser is just an upscale composite-beam laser, themselves simply a bunch of laser cannons that are fired in a cluster to combine into a single beam. A turbolaser is simply a capital scale laser cannon, much like a cannon is any gun with a bore in excess of 20mm.

This ignores that energy is energy.
Does anyone else see problems with this argument? It looks like G.S. is saying that Turbolasers, laser, and Superlasers are magical go away beams, and that we should assume that "NDF" weapons don't cheat on energy requirements?
Last edited by Lucky on Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Galactic Empire vs Federation of Planets @ Spacebattles

Post by Trinoya » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:57 pm

Wilga, thanks for linking to those posts, they will make another debate I'm currently engaging in substantially easier on me time wise in regards to taking screenshots.

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Re: Galactic Empire vs Federation of Planets @ Spacebattles

Post by Nowhereman10 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:43 pm

I've been referencing these SBC threads about ICS contradictions in my debates with the Warsies I've encountered on YouTube. I can tell you, they don't like this information you guys have collected there as well as the similar threads here, and do everything they can to ignore or handwave it away. So keep up the good work!

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Re: Galactic Empire vs Federation of Planets @ Spacebattles

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:43 am

The interesting thing about the latest turn in the SB.com thread is not that Rama et al are getting terribly confused about which side won the Data and exocomp disputes. I expect the rabid Saxtonites to not have actually watched the episodes in question, which clearly point towards a Federation which places a value on sentient life of all forms. Even hologram programs are known to have intellectual property rights of their own(!)

What's surprising is how little the discussion has touched on the widespread role that organic slavery plays in Star Wars. It's rather well documented that an extensive trade in organic sentients went on in Star Wars, to the point where even one of the main characters in the OT spent a little while as a slave on the big screen (Leia) and another had a background as a slave earlier during the Imperial era (Chewbacca), not to mention one of the main characters of the prequel trilogy (Anakin, often described as the central figure of the entire hexology) and his mother.

On the small screen... well, just read this article and count up the references to slavery. That's to say nothing of Twi'leks, whose economy seemed in the EU to be largely based on selling off the female members of their species to offworlders. (It's not as if Ryloth is an unimportant place if the CIS's automatic heuristics put it at the 79th highest priority target, either.)

Seen in that light, the extensive use of droid labor in Star Wars would seem hardly shocking to the citizens of the Star Wars galaxy. Enslavement of organic sentients - race based, institutional, industrial, and personal - is fairly common. Droids have the same rights as organic slaves - none, not even the right to survive.

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Re: Galactic Empire vs Federation of Planets @ Spacebattles

Post by Lucky » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:44 am

Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: In the wookieepedia article of Base Delta Zero there's a picture of a star destroyers BDZ:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Base_Delta_Zero
Why does the only picture on the wiki page have a Victory SD possibly firing on an asteroid? Are Wookiepedia's standards that low and does Sci Fi Fan not read what he posts as evidence?

Does Sci Fi Fan know that no less then three Star Destroyers are suppose to take part in a BDZ?
Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: When?
Lucas gave some quotes that point to him not considering the EU as his star wars

Picard it would be best if you just except the EU/C/S-canon, and provide evidence that is from G and T canon level as they are not the EU
Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: How? Where's your proof?
Picard I think you need to show your work a little better. Posting the scalings and calculations on your blog , and then always posting a link would go a long way. In other words: Show your work, and then people will know what you are talking about.
Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: And where's your proof of this? A breen bombardment fleet cause about 8 million casualties...if they have 600 megaton weapons they could have caused far, far more.
Well if you ignore the fact that trek planets specifically the UFP are shown to have shields that cover entire planets. The results of the breen attack is evidence Earth has such a shield system. If the Earth did not have such a shield system then a single torpedo in the kiloton range would have leveled the cities they hit.

The only other option is the UFP/Earth uses such durable materials to build every thing they can take kiloton nukes with only minor damage.

You can see why the shield option is the more sane option.
Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: The problem is that you're assuming that a Star Wars small town is similar in size to a modern small town. However, there are many sources in which cities are literally the size of continents, so their "small town" will probably actually be larger than New York City; in fact, their small towns might be on par with small states. Such puts the HTL yield in the gigatons. Hah.
The book was writen with us modern Earthling in mind. We should expect a small town to be what a real world small town is.

If we assume that a Star Wars small town is not compellable to a RL small town then it could be any size. <Sarcastic>Let's say that the town/village that was shown in Jedi Crash/Defenders of the Peace is a standard small town. It could possibly be vaporized by less then a kiloton.</Sarcastic>
We see Mos something or other in A New Hope. that would be a good example of a small town in Star Wars even if it was possibly the biggest city on the planet.

In the final episode of the Malevolence trilogy we find out that normally Venorators just fire all their guns at a target implying that there is not much difference between light, medium and heavy guns.

Down fall of a droid certainly rules out gigaton level fire power as I understand it. I seem to recall the episode implying less then 1 point something megatons.
Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: 1. At full power it apparently does, but cannot sustain rapid fire.
I've heard this before. Where does it come from, and is this a stated ability of Slave-I in the ICS?
Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: 2. Which you still haven't proven.
Down fall of a droid would beg to differ, and since Sci Fi Fan is claiming the ICS do not conflict with G and T canon doesn't he/she need to prove this?
Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: 1. The officer being afraid of the asteroid field was clearly wrong, as they were completely safe until a star destroyer lowered its shields for communication.
The 200 gigaton quad turbolasers are the ICS say are there are N-canon because no such guns appear in the movies, and the ICS claim to be a guide to the ship and vehicles of the movies.
Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: 2. the ROTS novelization implies heavy turbolasers to be in the gigatons.
It does? Does anyone have any idea of what SFF is talking about.

He/she really needs to provide a quote for this claim.
Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: 3. The EU is generally vague about firepower, but Star Wars: Slave Ship specifically mentions gigatonne weapons.
Isn't this the quote that talks about recoil, and makes very little sense?

Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: Copied from starfleet jedi, and largely invalid.
So the list was compiled at SFJ?

So he/she is admitting some of the list is correct, and providing no proof that anything is not correct?
Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: And your proof for this is...what? 100-500 kms is still far more than the 10 km ranges that Federation ships fight in.
10 km ranges as standard? I must have been watching a different show because the norm seemed to be in the thousands to the hundreds of thousands.

Sci Fi Fan Post 718 wrote: In SDN it's basically established that Star Wars wins; any trekkie that tries to argue otherwise gets outdebated by several posters, because Star Wars does indeed win.
If you actually bothered to read the site you would have realized it is wrong in many of it's conclusions, and often makes large unreasonable assumptions such as claiming to know the properties of fictional materials when we aren't told them. We know in Star Trek canon they are not limited by something as silly as E=MC^2.

If SFF bothered to read SD.NET then he/she would know that they use different methods to analyze Star Trek and Star Wars. Anything to make Star Wars look better even if it means ignoring G a,d T canon to get it, and anything to make star Trek look weak even if it means ignoring canon.

Mike Wong's site(SD.net) is just a fanfic written from the point of view of a ignorant Imperial intelligence officer who is writing a propaganda peace.

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