Does literally everyone go to Stardestroyer.net?

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

:D of course, he will try to use that to claim victory.

WUT?...Oh right..... yay i win.

Oh, and Kor - this neatly disprooves that i am a fanatic who can't stand to loose.

Really?....so you have nothing more to add on the matter then?....

1. That just neatly disprooved the results of my calculation (due to my extremely generously low velocity and mass estaminates).

2. If we want to get the right KE by velocity-increase alone, we have to take my estaminate (96m=~100m) and scale it up 20-40 times (30 average) to about 3000 meters.

1. You mean extreeme honesty regarding velocity and size estimates?.

2. LOL.......

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

So you have a high IQ (or at least claim it), but you ain't gonna use it.
Guess what - having a high IQ doesn't make you smart. It measures learning ability, nothing else. Learning things makes you smart, but you are evidently unwilling to learn even fundamental skills.

Listen fella im 40 in november, i have paid for my house my kids are all either at Uni or working and in the next 3 or 4 years il likeley be heading to New Zealand.

Now i suggest you figure out how much MY opinion about how you live your life matters to you and it will give you a good idea how much your opinion of my life matters to me.

"i am old, therefore i know stuff" is just plain wrong.

Says the cjhild, although i do agree age is not a gaurentee of knowledge in some cases but then it is not a gaurentee of a lack therof either.

So you own some Nietsche - the preferred philosopher for pretend-philosophists.

If you say so, but then i do not claim to be a philosopheror even a pretend-philosophist so who cares i just enjoyed reading his stuff a few years ago.

And you did not read them in more than ten years.

Not in detail but some of his work pops up supprisingly regularly or is referanced in one way or another.

I think i do not have to say anything else here, you already took care of that.

YAY -1 pointless conversational point.

So, your answer to "why do they have to reduce their drilling speed by three OOMs for the last five second" is handwaving it away with "higher density".

Yup.

Of course, that doesn't work out. It would mean that their drilling speed goes down lineary with density - but density rises lineary the further down you get, so your drilling speed should also go down lineary.

Linear density is not the issue as it was the density near the pockets that it the part they needed to be most careful near to keep the pockets stable as mentioned they could not drill elsewhere when the later one had issues.

They put CIVILIANS aboard WARSHIPS.

Well i remember quark was on the defiant a few times as a rep of the ferengi and that merchant dude as well as garak (hardly a harmless bunny thogh is he?).

But i do not remember other civillians on the defiant unless it was a rescue or part of the mission....but then WARSHIPS in the federation only really came about in the later eras in DS9 ect.

The USS Yamato had civilans aboard when they went into the Neutral Zone!

A captian against the treaty to investigate the Tkon before the romulans got hold of the tech and likely would have used it to kill billions?.........i suppose he did.

Sisko did not evactuate his civilains BEFORE heading into battle in the first DS9 episode, even tough it only took a minute or two DURING battle.

Also true although we do not know what other circumstances prior to the fight caused that....and sisko awas not in command (Martok was in command, although he looked like he was in disgused (that was humor btw as it was the actor who played martok).

Still the galaxy class in DS9 dropped off all its civillians before going into womhole...good job as well........so maybe they learned OR maybe the FEW times we see that happen their are other reasons.

Spoken like a true sexist - figuring out my gender solely on a single piece of my behaviour.

Well at least you admit that i figured it out.

And again it is not about being sexist it is about honesty.

So you don't remember anything about it.

I remember the result and as far as remembering the exact questions from that long ago why would i there were loads?.

Because you think you have the ability to judge my gender based purely on my posting behaviour here.

So a comment regarding your honesty based on your posts....hardly sexism.

This is simply not the case - only a sexist thinks that one can judge someones gender based on such limited information

Rubbish we form opinions all the time in real life based on considerbly less info and discussion i have had with you..

or that women have to conform to a specific way of posting!

I do not remember claiming that women must conform to a specific way of posting, i just think that you are a dude from my experiances and discussions with you....i may be wrong but it is a distinct impression i get and reinforced by my wife who read your comments.

As i said - you assume (you said so) that i lie solely based on the way i behave in this discussion.
You have no proof that i am lying, you base it purely on stereotypes.

You are right i have no proof, that is why i said it is a opinion, and it is not based on stereotypes it is based on experiances.

Again, you think that you can judge someones gender purely based on the way they post on the internet

I can form a opinion, i may be wrong but it is what i think.

However, i do care that you try to use it as an insult.

Glad to know im getting to you FELLA.

I am a transwoman (transsexual male-to-female).

I had no idea.

Put simply, that means that i actually have to defend my gender against assholes quite often. Kor obviously knew my gender in his first posts (no one uses female pronouns by default).

You name on here is Serafina, id hardly call that a male name so i initially used Mrs, but if you look i also used "dude" that i now tend to consider to apply to men or women.

Given that he is a former member of SD.Net and that this information is available from public forums there, i think it is quite likely that he knows this.

Paranoid much, i have no idea who you are or were bfore this.

He is simply trying to use who i am to insult me in one of two ways:
-he knows that i am transgendered, and attempts to outrage my by adressing me as male. This is simply extremely intolerant, and any mature forum should not allow this

I apologised the first time as it was a genuine error, but after MANY insults from you i remembered how much it seemed to piss you off so i decided to do it deliberatly.

-he doesn't know that i am transgendered, but thinks that he can judge someones gender purely by the way they post on the internet.

This betrays extremely stereotypical thinking - sexist thinking. Again, no mature forum should tolerate this.

Considering your alledged personal circumstances (if they are actually true and your not lying) my comments regarding your posting style could be considered quite insightful depending where you are in regards to your transition (my opinion is early into it with some way to go in regards to personal acceptance).

Still you did mention you were aware most ppl do not use female pronouns in discussions so the whole thing could be a big planned lie to give you a excuse to vent your toxin a bit.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Every good landscape designer should be capable of doing so (i had to do that for a simple hobby project, i think a professional should be able to do it in his sleep).

Yea its easy, i normally get my tape measure and unwind it until one end it touching the starting point and the other is touching the finishing point.

Then i look at the number on the tape.....

I have never given a quote that needed me to derive distance in space over a television or computer screen.....you mst have had a interesting hoby project...or be lying again.

That you don't do it shows neatly that 1.5km is totally possible - or that the actual number is higher still.

Considering the falcons very vey slow speed at the time of the impact 1.5km is way over, a few 100 mtrs or lest at best id say.

Furthermore - if it would really cause great stress, if they had drilled at 1000 times of that speed before - that would still have affected the cave.

Not really considering the many CANON ways phasers have been seen to effect matter.

Bullshit.
All Federation ships we see are just as heavily armed as those of their neighbors and are often quite superior.

Federation ships at the points you mention were ships of exploration NOT WARSHIPS....dear god your arrogant to think you can just disregard canon material.

If a real-life ships has powerful radar, missiles, cannons and whatnot - do you think it's not a military ship just because it says so?

Ships of space exploration can carry weapons, but they are still classed as exploration ship in canon, stop dictating and changing canon material.

Even if they were not warships - they do routinely run into danger. Putting people on board of such a ship risks their life.
For the crew, that's part of their job - but not for their families or CHILDREN!

Yup for the crew its a job for the family its a choice, although it is noted that either during somewhere after generations families were not on starships, the E-E was doing a nice safe shake down cruise and did not have any.

So the policy must have changed.

So - you admit that he recklessly endangered Civilians?

Needlessly?, if the romulans had figured out Tkon tech billions would have been at risk.

Sisko was in command of his own ship, wasn't he?

Nope the dude who later played Martok was.

At least, he should have dropped the civilians off at the START of the battle - instead, he waited until his ship was damaged!

I suppose that would have made sense, but then we would have lost the whole "de Borgs did killed my wife" plot...

You know plot does not need to make total sense right?, like a commando team wearing camo gear and then having a bright shiny gold 6ft ish robot along who walks like he needs a dump, and another shorter one that is bright blue and white and looks like a novelty butt plug....

Barely anything. You dropped any and all arguments regarding the Death Star and your supernova-weapons.

Why go over them again?, i WON so i moved on to other stuff you were raving about....

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

In other words, you can't do basic math, and your estimation is based upon nothing.

It is based on what i see, unlike you who will likely base it on what you WANT it to show.

Prove the slow speed.

Watch a few secs before and after the collision, you see the speed has been slowed considerably from what it was doing earlier while being chased by the TIES.

That coupled with the FLAMINGASTEROIDZZZ!!! speed as it was approaching them makes the flacons speed at that particular time very slow.

Even their exploration involves danger on a regular base.
Furthermore, they were STILL heavily armed. If a nuclear missile sub comes to a foreign port and claims that it's just doing floor mapping, do you think it's not a warship?

A nuclear missile sub is a warship because that is its classification...while i agree starfleet ships are armed it is canon that they are ships of exploration, MOVE ON.

And yet they use military ranks and the Federation has no other military.

True but then the merchant navy on earth also has a military ranking system and names.

The Galaxy-class is specifically DESIGNED to carry that many people. It's not like only a couple of families choose to be aboard these ships - they make up quite a significant number.

True, but then that was TNG all over as it was supposed to show a kind of semi peaceful era ect ect.

I got these off a site, it may or may not be totally accurate for a galaxy class....

officers: 185;
crew: 575;
civilists: 252.

Yes, it did during the Dominion war. Even the Federation is not that stupid.

Voyager had no crew either and it launched 2371, that was before the dominion war.

Yes, needlessly - there was no NEED to take the civilians.

He could hardly dump them all in shuttles and he was against the clock in regards to the romulans AND breakling a treaty.

You are breaking suspension of disbelief.
Unless you want to imply that Sisko wanted to loose his wife.

Suspension of disbelief. Lazy writers are no excuse.

Whatever, the reason they did not drop them off is unknown, maybe the thought the borg would be easy to beat with a fleet, maybe another reason but your guess is no better than anybody elses without more info.

You did no such thing.

I say i did.

I proved that Alderaan had planetary shields.

Wrong, you proved you are so arrogant that you think that your personal opinion can write canon material and disregard canon visuals contradicting planetary shields (ROTJ MOVIE).

You did not provide the demanded proof for your chain reaction.

I clearly pointed out visual material that disproved conclusivly the DET theory and was fully consistant with a chain reaction.

You ignored it.

You did not prove that that torpedo would work on every star (specifically main sequence stars).

The star they used is mearly a old main sequance star, considering the way it was done there is no reason it would not work on a younger version....and that is just one of many sun popping WMD type tech available.

You did not explain why no one behaves like such a weapon exists, why it is never mentioned.

It is mentioned as they have a entire episode about it, other sun popping tech is also mentioned and they even expand on the tech regarding suns to allow them to reignite dead stars....interestingly with a device that used protomatter.

In other words, you kicked my butt and i cannot deal with it.

Yup, now you are getting it.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

A blatant lie. The asteroids outside do not slow down at all, and they are the only thing that you can use as a speed estimate.

Considering the roids are not stationary the only one worth using to judge the falcons speed is the flamingasteriod and that is heading towards the falcon.

So you ASSUME that it was approaching them?

Given the incoming angles of the collision that deflected it id say yes.

They are CALLED that.
But wouldn't you call a ship that has enough firepower and shields to take on the warships of it's neighbors a warship?

What i or you would call it is irrelavant, CANON says they are ships of exploration....how many times lol..

If you design a ship that is as heavily armed as any other military ship and to put civilians on it, you obviously do not hold the lives of those civilians in high value.

Interesting interpretation..

If you ever get to write a trek episode maybe you could get a admiral, captain or the federation president to say words to that effect so it becomes canon.

I assume you mean "civilians", not crew?

Yup.

And Voyager was actually a DEDICATED Exploration vessel. Curious that the heavily armed ships carry civilians (and are designed to), while the fast, lightly armed exploration vessels do not, don't you think?

It was a federation Starship and hardly lightly armed when compared to a galaxy class.

But he DID. Granted, they were escape pods, but he did EXACTLY that.

And when and why did he do that?....

He could drop them off during battle within a couple of minutes and without disrupting combat. It was clearly not too dangerous, or he would not have done it at all (if lifepods are sitting ducks that are in danger in battle, he would not have used them to put civilians on them). But he only did so AFTER the ship took critical damage.
Why not do it before the battle, or at the beginning? No logical reason at all.

Well that is a issue then but "they do not give a crap about civillians" considering the sheer number of times they are willing to sacrifice themselves ect for the whole "needs of the many" bit shows that it is unusual.

Again with "ignoring canon"?

If G canon film material contradicts anything in the novelisations the novel lses....the rotj shows no planetary shield so no shields.

No, i disproved it. Nothing of what we see requires a chain reaction. Parsimony as well as the planetary shield dictates DET.

Visuals disprove DET and supports the chain reaction, also Parsimony screws the DET theory due to huge complications in creating, storing, directing such energy fro a 160km sphere, fueling issues also add at least one if not move levels.

Chain reaction requires the empire to have the ability to cause fusion in virtually any material.........a ability supported by the SDN site.

By your logic, because the Germans started to build an aircraft carrier in WWII, they were a dangerous naval carrier force!

WRONG.

In that situation i would say that the germans had the ability to build a aircraft carrier in WWII.

I NEVER used these words.

I know i did it tp irritate you emoBOY...and considering your over the top reply id say it worked and yea EVERYBODY can see i changed your quote DUHHHH...

Even though i actually did kicK your butt and you cannot deal with it.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

You can't just assume that the asteroids will speed up - where would they get the energy for that?

Where do i say the flaming roid speeds up?...

And i suppose if the US Navy starts to call their aircraft carriers luxury cruisers, you will believe that as well?

If they do get back to me il let you know.

It IS taken from canon.
Or do they have to spell out everything for you?

Your interpretation of canon is not canon.

Yeah, probably because they did not waste space on civilians.

Consession accepted.

Intrepid class starships are newer as well.

After his ship took heavy damage.

There we are then.

I said that the government doesn't care that much. It's also obvious that they are willing to let complete foreign civilizations die out to uphold the prime directive.

That is a oversimplification of a complex issue that i also do not always agree to.

There is NO CONTRADICTION.
I already explained why - a diagram does not have to show anything.

Your opinion is cannot give material canon status...

How many times do you need to be told that?.

You completely ignore that the chain reaction would ALSO create huge amounts of energy.

No i do not.

We know that from their star fighters (who can achieve orbit in seconds - that takes a lot of energy).

Not with the anti-grav stuff you claim they have.

Their weapons (gigatons are well established, BDZ requires even more).

BDZ?, is that the melted planet that the dude went for a stroll on afterwards?...yea ok and apart from that i did not see it in the movie or the firepower figures certain ppl claim to have got from abusing the material.

their shields (Star Destroyers can withstand thousands of asteroid impacts) and much much more.

You mean very few impacts and one knocking off the entire bridge tower of a star destroyer?.....

Note the word REACTORS.
You lack any sense of logic. Just because you can do something in a controlled environment (a reactor) that doesn't translate into the ability to induce it in a highly mixed enviorment such as a planet.
By your logic, we have ray guns that can blow up deposits of uranium and can infuse fission in anything just because we can do so in nuclear reactors!.

My logic is fine and after reading the rest of that page my idea wins principle of parsimony by a long chalk.

Italics by me.
See? That one is explicitly called a WEAPON.
When was it invented? In the 27th century!
Which means...they DON'T have it in the 24th century.

That particular weapon was invented in the past by Kal Dano (Who ever he is) it was brought to the past so they did have it.....in fact it was around from the 22nd century.

Picard mearly refer5s to it as a powerful weapon....a bit like he does sorins weapon in generations that does the same thing interestingly enough.

I think the Tox Uthat got destroyed or was sent back to the future in that episode right?.

So congratulaions you have shown that in this case the Tox Uthat is gone...although i never mentioned it or even considered it actually.

While this is indeed the direct conclusion, this uses actual logic instead of Kor-logic.
Your Kor-logic assumes that if something is mentioned only once, it is available in large quantities.

My Kor-logic says if somebody has the tech to build something they can build it, the only limitation is construction time and perhaps materials.

So you actually admit that this was a deliberate lie?

It was a deliberate attempt to annoy you by rewording your post so it told the truth, the fact you did not actually post it is the only issue and BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS considering we are on a forum with it clearly adjusted by me.

Perhaps you should actually get some medication against that - just like you claimed that i do (which i don't, btw).

Nope i have a busy week next week as il be taking half a day on wednesday for a CONSIDERABLE quantity of liquid medication during the game.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

The first part obviously refers to all the other asteroids we see flying outside trough the windows of the Falcon.

Well duh.

Those can be used to judge the Speed of the Falcon, just like cars on the other side of a road.

Unless you know how fast the roids around the falcon are going you cannot do that, also we know he was dodgng roids so slowing and speeding up his shp would be essential.

Now, cars can actually speed up on their own, and so can the Falcon - but the asteroids can not.

No roids cannot usually do so.

Therefore, it is a safe assumption that the asteroids we see have a constant speed.

That each roid we see has its OWN individual constant speed barring collisions that would remain the same...

This allows us to measure the relative speed (not the absolute, but we don't need that right now) of the Falcon - and since the asteroids seen outside pass at the same speed all the time, the Falcon is neither slowing down nor speeding up significantly.

LOL nope, the roids had a variety of INDIVIDUAL speeds that would change due to individual collisions and the falcon was dodging, slowing and speeding up to avoid roids.....

Therefore, your statement that he was suddenly braking just before the two asteroids collide is not true - nor would it make sense, given that they were surprised by the impact.

He had just lost the persuing ties and flown throgh a debris field caused by a collision in front of the ship so it is unlikely he speeded up so it hit his ship harder and more likely he slowed down, and then the two roids collided causing the flash, explosion and the surviving roid to be deflected towards the ship..

...unless you are going to say the impact was just the PERFECT amount of KE to halt all of the surviving roids momentum?......

So you can't even answer a hypothetical question? And you want to debate sci-fi VS?

I can but once again its one of your pointless questions that you think will allow you to rewrite canon...they are classd as ships of EXPLORATION...MOVE ON FOR GODS SAKE..

They could have easily helped that planet (that "geological stress" was quite dangerous"), but they choose not to do so - to sit idly by why people die.

True, i would have done summat personally i did not agree with that call.

They are willing to temper with the brain of a species they NEVER met before, just to uphold the prime directive!

That is quite a interesting episode as it did show that interfearing could have had very large repercussions in regrds to a primitive society.

One mas memory being harmlessly adjusted to prevent what almost became a intolerant and violent creationalist subculture within it?. I supported that call tbh, but then i have a rather large personal dislike for religon.

Look at this!

I would have saved them in "The Masterpiece Society" as well.

Yeah, they sure will be glad to know that you let them die to preserve their "way of life".

I disagreed with the call in '"Homeward", i would have saved em.

Morals are not made from absolute rules!

I agree, i remember the TNG episode "justice" where it was commented "there can be no justice so long as laws are absolute." and that "life itself is an exercise in exceptions." Riker adds, "When has justice ever been as simple as a rulebook?".

As such i do think that Sta fleet captains should be allowed to judge each situation on its individual merits.

Since you never explained how they get the energy to punch trough the planetary shield (a chain reaction that affects matter would not work on a matter-less shield) and where the chain reaction get's it's energy from - yeah, you did ignore it.

I never said the DS beam contained NO energy what so ever....stop putting words into my mouth.

Anti-grav doesn't violate CoE, at least not in Star Wars.

Says who?....let me take a guess....er would it be those who want to look for reasonons to justify stupidly high calcs?...yea.

BOOKS ARE CANON.
Even low-end estaminates for BDZs (just melting one feet of the surface and vaporizing the oceans) need exatons of energy.

NOT G CANON THEY AINT.

And the same book claims a dude climbed out of a hole and took a stroll......on a minimum of 12 inches of molten rock......HOOOT FEEEET!!!!.

They flew trough the field for at least hours, possibly days.

Days?, the convo lea and solo have is virtually the same during the cut backs, minutes likely perhaps a hour.

Simple geometry tells us that they were hit by at least thousands of asteroids during that time.

Rubbish the belt was sparse where the ISD and SSD was, you can see barely 15 to 20 roids and the volume of space visable is VAST especially behind the ships where it can be described as well essentially endless due to it being well space...

Not only that but for all we know it only took a tiny fraction of a % of the KE of the roid hitting to knock the entire bridge tower off.

Ok, so by your logic, we can shoot a ray at uranium depostits and they will do the same thing as a nuclear reactor or a nuclear bomb?

Really?, is that what you think i was saying?....try harder, i know its hard but do try to contain your frustration over losing.

But it was INVENTED during the 27th century. That's the point - you can't invent something when it doesn't exist!

So some guy from some unknown race invented the Tox Uthat in the future?, so what?.

Its not like the federation does not already have plenty of its own WMD's that can achieve the same effect of what ever race the dude who made that one was, who cares if they did not get that particular one and it was destroyed?.

He brought it to the 22th century for some reason and it was discovered in the 24th century - but you apparently make another leap in logic and assume that they could therefore replicate it.

Do i?, just when do i do this?......im sure you brought the whole thing up and i said i never even considered it.

You can only INVENT something if...it doesn't already EXIST.

AGAIN SO WHAT?.

THERE ARE LOTS OF RACES IN THE GALAXY AND IM SURE THAT EACH AT SOME ADVANCED POINT OF TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT CAN INVENT SOME SORT OF WMD, WHY SHOULD THE INVENTION OF ONE SPECIFIC WEAPON FROM SOME ALIEN RACE MAKE ANY DIFFERANCE TO THE FEDERATIONS EXISTING TECH?......

If it exists in the 24th century (as you claim,), then how can you invent it in the 27th century?

How is some alien races future invention anything to do wth contemporary federation tech apart from superficial simularities in ability?.

And those are SEVERE limitations.

They modified the photon torps pretty quick (within a day) and protomatter along with other canon sun popping materials used in WMD's were quite available in several episodes.

Ah. Why i am not surprised that you think alcohol is medication?

Why am i bothering to continue to add a bit of humor is a better question.....

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

TESB asteroids

Your entire claim is based on one collision, which you claim can not explain

Actually it is based on several, the smallest is just the best one to use.

And the effects we see are not consistant with standard roids as they do not cause flashes of light like we see, explode like we see and combust like we see after such weak impacts. Therefore the roids in that belt likely at least partly composed of some sort of material that does make those effects consistant (a volatile one) and must be declared invalid material to base fire power calcs on.

Planetary Shields
You claimed that there are no planetary shields in Star Wars.

Correct, supported by G canon visual movie material.

Death Star chain reaction
You claim that the Death Star destroyed Alderaan with a chain reaction.
You base this on two pieces of visual evidence:
1. if we look at Alderaan frame by frame, we see 2-3 frames where different parts of the planet glow in different red colors.
2. very shortly (<1 second) after the explosion, there is a second explosion.

It was.

1. Lies, it is over many frames.

2. Well over one second after the beam hits the planet.

The energy simply exploded everything but the solid planetary core first, then the solid core.

Wrong we can still see some of the planets outline during the process.

The lower middle and lower right image of the 6 still shows the outline of alderaans surface as the chain reaction effect moves around the planet.



In fact the curvature of the planet in the top right is vaguely visable through the ejected material almost up to the main explosion that destroys the planet.

You tried to claim that the Empire can induce some kind of non-nuclear fusion in every kind of matter.
However, you provided no original source for this claim, eventually admitting that you had it from Stardestroyer.Net.
However, this claim is simply ignorant:
Just because they can do it in their reactors, they can not necessarily do it with everything. Everyone with half a brain can see why this is a giant leap in logic.

Oh be quiet that entire page is a leap, if you wanna dismiss my theory you gotta start by tearing that page and most of the site its on apart pal.

My theory is sound , consistant and contains a bucket ton less components required to make a DET theory work.

Supernova torpedoes
You claim that the Federation has torpedoes that can make every sun go supernova.
You base this on the TNG-episode "Half a life", where the Enterprise tries to stabilize a Red Giant with modified torpedoes. They fail, which causes the star to go supernova.

Not just half a life actually and not just one type of tech that can achieve those results as there are a few.

Supernova weapons stockpiles

Pointless due to the canon modification speed seen and readily available materials.

Phaser Drilling
You claimed that Federation phasers can drill trough 3000 kilometers of planet (rock) in 20 seconds.
You base this on a diagram in "Inheritance" (TNG again), where they basically say "we want to affect this region (you say it is 3000km deep, based on scaling) and therfore have to drill to a cave".

Canon Diagram and canon dialog AND canon plot material....oh and before i forget your insistance the planet was m-type and earth sized.

You never show that the cave is actually at or close to the depth they want to affect.

Verbally and visually they do DO.

You also ignore the basic problem that a cave at such depths would be crushed by the sheer pressure of the rock above.

Not ignored, suspension of disbelief in support of canon material saying and showing that is what is happening, to support any other depth requires we disregard the plot and canon material.

Furthermore, such a cave would be incredibly hot. However, they only mention that it had been heated by the drilling itself:
DATA: The drilling process has raised the temperature inside the magma pocket by almost three hundred degrees C. It will be several hours before it cools enough for us to enter.

No heat from the environment is mentioned, but the heat would be tremendous if it was within kilometers of a molten planetary core!

Again the heat from the enviroment would not need to be mentioned as it would be accepted as part of the plan, the extra heat from the phasers would be a extra problem worth mentioning and require dealing with.

Quite simply the cooling units needed longer to get the job done due to the extra heat caused by the phasers.

Furthermore, they actually tell us the rate of their drilling:

DATA: We are within two kilometers of the magma pocket.

JULIANA: Another five seconds should do it. We've broken through.

Consistant with other canon material about adjusting the str of the beam, and no the adjustments would not be linear that is why she did them manually.

DATA: "These scans indicate the pockets where we plan to setup the infusion units are some what unstable"

JULIANNA: Im going to monitor the dentisty of the rock layers and adjust the str of the particle beam as we go, that should minimise the siesmic stress we generate while were drilling".

EARLIER DIALOG:

GEORDIE: These pockets how close are they to the molten core.

JULIANNA: A few km why?.

DATA: The proceedure will involve drilling down through the planet into the pockets where we would set up a series of plasma infuser units.

Adress these points adequately.
You have NOT done so before. Do it now, or concede every point that you can not address.

Done and as per your ultimatum il accept your concession on all those i did.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Really?
So, not only are your asteroids explosive now, they also have rocket thrusters strapped to them?

HUH?, i was agreeing with you, "No roids cannot usually do so"...was in regards to them being capable of speed up on their own.

Didn't you just claim that the asteroids can speed up on their own?

Nope, you misread, i was actually saying the oposite.

We SEE that the asteroids at the side of the falcon do not collide. They all appear to move at roughtly the same speed.

If i said that you would scream about some sort of relative distance and velocity calculation.......

We do not see it speeding up or slowing down. We do see that the asteroids do not

actually move that much relative to each other. Thus, they are either not moving at all, very slowly or at about the same speed.

I would say the material is inconclusive and that claiming the falcon was not slowing down or speeding up as part of its evasive manouvers is hardly going to be accepted.

He was still running from the Star Destroyers, dumbass.

They were no where near and not even close enough to fire on him.

Besides, slowing down risks being hit by a larger asteroid, a far more devastating event as several small ones.

Dude Han is one of the best pilots in ANY franchise he would not limit his evasive manouvers to lateral and vertical combos, you have to accept that he would speed up and slow down as well to avoid roids, we see plenty pass by in front of the ship from above or other angles.

Khan limited his and look what happened....lol.

But go ahead - SHOW us that the two colliding asteroids were not at least 1000 meters away. It should be trivial to do.

Sure.

If i was going to show that the falcan was hardly moving and the distance i would point out that the momemt the roids hit and the surviving one appears ouit of the flash and explosion that it closes the distance to the falcon and passes below...or the falcon approaches it.

Either way the surviving fragments size barely changes from the point it exits the explosion to the point is passes below the falcon.

If the falcon had been approaching from a 1000m distance or even been stationary and the roid had been approaching from 1000m distance then it would have looked visably larger as it passed below them compared to when it first apreared after the collision/flash explosion ect....

Ships who are as heavily armed as their neighbors warships. Why do you resist calling them warships?

The defiant is a warship, so are a few other of the new classes?, happy?....the others like the E-D are ships of exploration by canon.

Not only that, but the Prime Directive should be rewritten. A law that has to be ignored on numerous occasions to be moral is obviously a bad law.

I assume you will understand why i did not respond to all the above questions regarding the prime directive considering my final camment regarding "Star fleet captains should be allowed to judge each situation on its individual merits."

-SW has infinite Energy at it's disposal
-They don't, but have enough energy to lift several tons out of a gravity well within seconds. Still a shitload, but a lot better than infinite energy.

What is your excuse for us seeing ST ships being capable of the same thing?.

Furthermore, minutes is impossible unless you think Han fixed the Hyperdrive within minutes.

I doubt he expected to be in the floor of the falcon fixing for days while they were getting shot at and chased by at least 3 ISD's and multiple TIE fighters (before he noticed they hit summat rather than getting shot).

Flat-out lie.

Not a lie as wee see the VAST AREA around the SSD and ISD's and it is sparse.

They flew after the Falcon, and we saw that this field was incredibly dense.

He flew through dense pockets to lose the ties.

That the small asteroids are not visible when we see the SDs is no wonder, since they are
-blowing up lot's of them
-the small ones are too small to see from that distance.

We do not see them blow up lots, in fact quite the oposite.

A dense belt would have a densly covered background that cannot be denied.

The belt was sparse apart from the occasional pocket of density likely cause by the occasional collision of larger roids and the falcon flew through them to lose the ties.

You are aware that this was a multi-gigaton asteroid?

Irellavant as the KE from it could have been many millions of times more than was required to knock off the bridge tower.

You say that the Empire can create some kind of fusion within heavy metals within their reactors.

Nope your site says that.

You extrapolate that to mean that they can do it with planets by shooting beams at them!

Not just from that but essentially correct.

So i guess Picard tought "what a horrible weapon" because the Federation already has thousands of them?
Suppose a US-American soldier finds a nuke. Will he be shocked by the existance of such a weapon (it not being on hostile territory)?

You now know what picard was thinking?, and who says the federation has thousands of them?.

Suppose a US-American soldier finds a nuke. Will he be shocked by the existance of such a weapon (it not being on hostile territory)?

Dunno but personally i know we have lots of nukes and i think "what a horrible weapon" about each and every one of them.

Either way, you have no proof that he was not a member of the Federation. Given that he hid it on Risa (a member of the Federation), we have at least reason to assume that he was also a member of the Federation.

You have no proof that he was a member.

In fact if i was from the future and i had a WMD like that hiding it on a planet that was part of a federation that could make them would mean if it was discovered it would be a big deal but not like if a race without the tech found it.

A bit like hiding a nuke in a country like the USA, the USA find it and its YAY a free nuke....after a WTF IS A NUKE DOING UNDER ME DRIVE!!!!....obviously.

Didn't you notice that the Federation contains lot's of aliens?

Compared to what?, the rest of the galaxy?...nope not that many when you look at it from that perspective.

Protomatter is readily available now?

Well if nelix carried a flask that could contain it id hardly call it rare, and readily available to the federation is hardly the same as ir grows on trees..

Besides, the modified torpedo used no protomatter.

Maybe maybe not we do not get a description of what it contains, however other WMD's did.

And you are still ignoring that Red Giants work on a totally different process than normal stars. That alone is enough to show that they won't work on normal stars, unless you can show that they do.

Well they were trying to increase helium fusion by artificialy heating the stars core that in turn would cause more heat and more helium fusion.

Now if i understand it helium fusion increases at around 100 million K and they heated the star to over 250 (last comment before they ran off and it was climbing fast). So what is to stop them heating a normal star to 100 million K and inducing helium fusion and allowing the process to increase. You cannot say that main sequance stars do not have helium in them to allow the process now can you?.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Since you failed to do so, no concession is given on anything.

Theres a shocker you yet again refuse to accept canon and facts...

The two instances where you even tried consisted of an already posted picture where you draw an unjustified, ridiculous conclusion, and a piece of dialogue that does not actually refer to any depth.

You ignore canon and plot material to serve your needs, your theory fails.

You also failed to consistently outline your arguments, instead starting your "nitpick individually" .

That is your tactic not mine, my argiuments follow canon and plot, yours leap over both to snipe a inaccurate result.

You have failed. I explained to you what evidence you should present to convince me and other people.

You ignore evidence for personal bias and opinion and have done from the start.


You get no prizes because you are the typical SDN sterio type who ignores canon and logic for science, ignores logic and science for canon, and canon and science for logic or disregards all 3 to make up his own story he feels over rides canon.............depending on what suits his bias best.

My points are the same as they have always been and your every challenge has been met by them you have done nothing but try and snipe around them with the above tactics, you failed.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

I take something that happens inside a reactor under unknown conditions and assume that it can be used as a weapon".

This above has to be my personal favorite comment.....and typical of a SDN member.

Essentially:

The ability on the page is totally unexplained hence the "unknown conditions.........(it is not the only ability on that page and others that has " unknown conditions" .....BELIEVE ME LOL).


However for DARING to have one of my own with " unknown conditions" WEEEELLL that just has be be proven in total and absolute detail, every aspect of it has to be laid out and be shown step by step EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS within the bounds of what they consider to be science....

Well sod off my theory conforms to canon material including movie and novelisations, it has less requirements than the DET theory and as such hammers you in the Parsimony stakes.

Ladies and gents welcome to the hipocracy that is SDN....

[Who is like God arbour]

To Serafina:

1. It would be better, if you answered my arguments coherently. It does not make sense to object my argument with an argument that is already addressed. For example: At the beginning of your post, you are arguing that we do not take for granted what we see or hear in real life, that one just can't take every word for absolute truth all the time. But at the end of my post, I had already admitted that I do not assume that all what is said has to be true. Insofar, your argument was unnecessary. Sometimes you are even repeating the same argument again and again because you are picking apart my post sentence by sentence (or paragraph for paragraph) instead of answering it in a coherent way. But that does only make your answer longer, not necessarily better.
2. Because of that, I do not know if you have really understood what I have tried to convey. If you had understood it, you wouldn’t have needed to argue that point anymore.
   
   To try it again: When something was said, the fact that it was said is canon. It is canon as visuals are canon. And it is coequal with the visuals.
   
   If you tread such a movie like you would tread a documentary – although I do not think that this is a good way to tread a movie because the used film footage in documentaries is oftentimes not authentic. Oftentimes they are using scenes that were filmed at totally other events as the described event. Sometimes they are even retaking some scenes or are using scenes out of a movie. A good example would be the famous photo of two Soviet-soldiers placing their flag on the Reichstag. This famous photo was taken two days after the original event [O] – you have to accept the fact that what was said was said.
   
   The question is, if what was said is true. And of course not all what is said has to be true. People can lie or err.
   
   If what was said is true or if the speaker has lied or erred has to be find out under consideration of the context and only in-universe.
   
   Now look at the dialogue and tell me, where there is a reason for them to lie or how it can be possible that they have erred:
   
   
   • • • [quote="script from "Inheritance""]
         • • • JULIANA:
             Captain, our situation has worsened since my husband and I first contacted you. The molten core of our planet is not just cooling -- it's begun to solidify.
         • • • PRAN:
             Our gravitational field has been affected -- seismic activity has increased by a factor of three.
         • • • JULIANA:
             If the cooling continues at this rate -- Atrea will become uninhabitable within thirteen months.
         • • • GEORDI:
             We could minimize seismic activity by creating isobaric fissures and releasing some of the tectonic stress -- but that would just be a temporary fix.
         • • • DATA:
             The only permanent solution would be to re-liquefy the core.
         • • • GEORDI:
             These pockets in the magma layer -- how close are they to the molten region of the core?
         • • • JULIANA:
             A few kilometers, why?
         • • • GEORDI:
             You think that's close enough to try ferro-plasmic infusion?
         • • • DATA:
             The procedure would involve using our ship's phasers to drill down through the planet's surface and into the pockets -- where we would set up a series of plasma infusion units.
         • • • GEORDI:
             We'd trigger the units by firing a modulated energy burst down through the shafts.
         • • • JULIANA:
             I see... injecting sufficient plasma directly into the core should trigger a chain reaction... and that will reliquify the magma...
         • • • DATA:
             It should be possible to stabilize the core temperature at ninety-three percent of normal.
         • • • PRAN:
             If it works, the core would remain molten for centuries.
         • • • PICARD:
             If you give your permission, we'll begin immediately.
         • • • PRAN:
             Very well. But before we proceed, I'd like to update our geological surveys.
         • • • • • • […]
         • • • JULIANA:
             I'm going to monitor the density of the rock layers and adjust the strength of the particle beam as we go. That should minimize the seismic stress we generate while we're drilling.
         • • • • • • […]
         • • • WORF:
             Phasers are locked on target.
         • • • RIKER:
             Fire when ready.
         • • • • • • […]
         • • • DATA:
             The beam has penetrated eight kilometers beneath the surface...
         • • • JULIANA:
             Once it's through the crust, we'll boost phaser intensity by twelve percent.
         • • • WORF:
             Standing by.
         • • • • • • […]
         • • • JULIANA:
             Now...
         • • • • • • […]
         • • • JULIANA:
             The mantle is less resistant than I thought it would be -
         • • • DATA:
             We are within two kilometers of the magma pocket.
         • • • JULIANA:
             Another five seconds should do it.
         • • • • • • […]
         • • • JULIANA:
             We've broken through -
         • • • WORF:
             Terminating beam.
         • • • JULIANA:
             The pocket seems stable...
         • • • DATA:
             I detect no increase in stress levels in the surrounding magma.
         • • • RIKER:
             Good work. I don't think we could have gotten in any cleaner.
         • • • DATA:
             The drilling process has raised the temperature inside the magma pocket by almost three hundred degrees C. It will be several hours before it cools enough for us to enter.
         [/quote]
   I think there is no room to interpret that another way. They have drilled through the crust into the mantle. The phaser was stated to have penetrated already eight kilometers of the crust and once they were through the crust, they have even increased phaser intensity. Then they noted that the mantle was less resistant than they thought it would be. All they while, Julianna has adjusted the strength of the particle beam.
   
   This is what happened according to the dialogue.
   
   Now we have the little problem, that if they would have indeed only drilled into the mantle, the shaft would not be stable and that nobody could survive in the pocket.
   
   But instead of dismissing the whole dialogue, to me, it makes more sense to assume, that they have done some things off-screen to stabilize the shaft and pocket (eg. force fields or SIF fields) and cool down the pocket.
   
   Your interpretation (they have drilled only 20 km deep) demands
   • that the whole dialogue has to be interpreted another way
     • – what is not possible considering that the dialogue is insofar non-ambiguous,
   • that they have erred
     • – what is not plausible considering that their plan seems to have worked - or
   • that they have lied
     • – what is also not plausible because there was no reason for them to lie.
   What does make more sense?
             
3. Please do not conclude from my approach to an interpretation and analyse of a fictional work on my critical thinking in real life.
   
   I know that not all what is said in real life has to be true. And you can believe me that I do not believe all what is said.
   
   On the other side I also know that sometimes people are not saying all they know and have done. If someone tells me something he or she has done, it is possible that some things were left out. But that alone is no reason for me to assume that I was lied to.
   
   It is the same with a documentary e.g. about the building of a skyscraper or a bridge. In such a documentary they do not show each little problem and how it was solved. But that does not mean that the problem was not solved and the building not built. It only means that they have found a solution to their problem but didn't think it important enough to include it into the documentary.
   
   It is the same here: Yes, there were a few problems. But they had a solution to them. Otherweise they wouldn't have attempted to drill at all. How the have solved these problems was not shown. But considering that their attempt was succesful, it is to be assumed that they have solved these little problems off-screen.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

No. I would look at the scene, and would recognize that you are right.

How can all the roids at all the various distances they are at be all travelling past the window at the same relative speed?.

Why should it slow down? Did it have to evade any asteroids in front of it?

We see roids coming from above and the sides when we see out the front of the falcon, to say he would not slow down or speed up to avoid a collision is not gonna fly.

Ah - so naturally, he did not worry about them at all anymore

Worry about them maybe.....fly through a roid belt at break neck speeds when they are not in weapons range ect...VERY unlikely.

Why not? We see the Falcon maneuvering without breaking trough DSII at high speeds by a pilot who is unlikely to be as good as Han.

He was getting shot at by TIES.

Why should the asteroids necessitate significant breaking

To prevent being hit by those coming in from above, below ect ect at angles.

"Hardly moving"? Where did you get THAT idea?
Besides, that asteroid just vanishes from our field of view by traversing downwards. It is not moving straight towards the Falcon.

It is moving in the falcons direction at a slight downward angle,.....or the falcon is moviing towards it at a slight upwards angle (unless the falcon is stationary).

Either way we see is pass below the falcon at close range and its size is hardly bigger than directly after the impact that deflected it.

It is without doubt the BEST material to use to judge distance because it is the same scene as the roids entering the scene, colliding and deflecting and passing closely below the falcon.

But they are still as heavily armed as their neighbors warships. Not to mention that exploration is still damn bloody dangerous.

That is why they are heavily armed...hey look if you wanna solve the problem using canon material just be a Klingon in your next reply.....they refer to fed star shps as battle cruisers and warships ect...:).

The time for the Star Destroyers in the field is not based on any of the Falcons activities.
Instead, it is depending on how long they search.

If i lead you into a forest and you believe that i am still in that forest - you can search for days while i am back home.

The star destroyers do not even enter the belt until the falcon is in the cave doing repairs (the dude whining to vader that the captains ect do not wwanna go in AFTER the falcon enters the cave) and as soon as the falcon appears they star chasing it..

Couple that with the fact that solo left the helm to fix the hyperdrive while being chased and shot at by multiple star destroyers and TIE fighters (unlikely if he thought the repairs were gonna take days or even hours) you have maybe minutes in the belt, not hors or days for the star destroyers.

But instead, Picard destroyed it.
Why do that, if they already have many similar weapons?
As you said "yay, a free nuke" - but instead, Picard destroyed it. Why?

Why did picard destroy it?, naughty aliens from the future trying to steal it.

Neelix carried it in the DQ - how did they aquire it?

Transported it out from inside a part of a nebula if i recall correctly....kind off annoying actually i means here is a guy from a place that you can get blown for a glass of water and he has a flask capable of containing protomatter....still it was voyager so......

No. They somehow influenced helium fusion, and that increased the temperature.
Or do you know claim that a normal torpedo (modified or not) can contain EXATONS of energy?
The core of a sun has a denisty of 1.5×10^5 kg/m3 and is many times as large as the earth.
We do not see a single photon torpedo vaporizing planets, do we?
In a normal star, they can not influence HE-HE fusion (it doesn't exist). The star would not heat up. Nothing would happen.

One of the easrly bench mark temperatures is 60 million K, now from material i can find helium fusion happens in stars at 100 million K.

So, let me get this straight:

You think that you can take something that happens inside a reactor, and extrapolate it to working on everything everywhere - based on no evidence at all.

You did read that page you linked right?.

If "based on no evidence at all" was a requirement for winning a award that page and virtually all of the material on it would be worthy of Olympic gold..

But as with the interpretations made on that page and others i took canon material and extrapolated a meterial and mechanism that could achieve them.

@WYRM

Hardly. The scene which this flaming roid incident occured, during the brief clip of the view outside,

It is in the exact same scene we are using to judge the speed of the falcon and determin the size of the roids ect....there is no better scene to use, in fact it is almost essential that we use it for the mosst accuracy possable.

@Serafina

Actually, no. Visuals are superior to dialogue, just like they are in real life.

Personal interpretations of visuals cannot over ride direct canon plot material supported by visuals and clear dialog

No scientist would conclude something like that when seeing that episode happening in real life.
We never observe any of the capabilities necessary for that to happen:
-they never project a forcefield like the one needed to stabilize a 2000km deep tunnel.
-they never demonstrate any capabilities to move heat remotely - they certainly have heat pumps, ventilation etc. - but not quasi-magic fields moving that much heat remotely.
-the cave would not even exist in the first place. Since no technology would be existing in a natural cave, and no natural material can possibly hope to withstand that pressure, you have no explanation at all. Furthermore - phasers are heavily material dependent. If the cave consisted of a super-dense material, i doubt phasers could punch trough it (remember the Neutronium hull that Kirk encountered).

Canon material comes from somewhere and there is always a first time....so if you wish to say that all those things you list the E-D can do and the materials ect in question do exist on that planet that is up to you.

But you cannot ignore such clear canon plot material just because you chhose to not suspend your disbelief in regards of a few explainable phenomenon.

@Wyrm

The fact that Checkhov says that they were entering orbit around Ceti Alpha VI is canon. What's also canon is that Chekhov was wrong — it was Ceti Alpha V, where Khan Noonian Sighn was eking out a living, and kicking the entire Genisis arc forward. Just because a character says something doesn't make it true, just like real life, so it's hardly a new piece of evidence and must be taken into consideration in case visuals conflict with it. This is why we prefer visuals to dialogue. Visuals don't lie and can't be mistaken. They just are.

That is a terrible comparison and not only that but he was corrected instantly and oh yea it was essential plot material. It was used just like hans comment regarding the empires inability to pop a planet even though we had already seen them do so.

A deliberate and canon error is instantly or eventually corrected or we are made fully aware of the fact it is a error prior to it being made (solo comment).

@Who is like God arbour

It is the same with a documentary e.g. about the building of a skyscraper or a bridge. In such a documentary they do not show each little problem and how it was solved. But that does not mean that the problem was not solved and the building not built. It only means that they have found a solution to their problem but didn't think it important enough to include it into the documentary.

It is the same here: Yes, there were a few problems. But they had a solution to them. Otherweise they wouldn't have attempted to drill at all. How the have solved these problems was not shown. But considering that their attempt was succesful, it is to be assumed that they have solved these little problems off-screen.

A superb example dude and they do it themselves in regards to the DS having no fuels tanks so its not like they are unfamiliar with the process of acceping some of the issues being solved by the unknown to support a theory (even a debunked one like the DET).

[Who is like God arbour]

To Serafina:

• Your explanation now is that they have misused the word core several times and have meant only the mantle.
  
  I admit that, if that would be the case, your assumption that they drilled only 20 km deep would be more or less fine.
  
  You still assume that the target area is slightly above the mantle although Julianna has clearly said that once they have drilled through the crust, they'll boost phaser intensity by twelve percent. Insofar the target area has to be in the mantle and cannot be in the crust. But I do not think that this is really relevant.
  
  But nevertheless, in the whole context it still wouldn’t fit.
  
  Because now you are assuming that they wanted to inject sufficient plasma directly into the mantle to reliquefy it. But the mantle of a planet is not supposed to be liquid. The uppermost mantle plus overlying crust are relatively rigid and form the lithosphere, an irregular layer with a maximum thickness of perhaps 200 km. Below the lithosphere is the asthenosphere. The asthenosphere is the highly viscous mechanically weak ductilely-deforming region of the upper mantle of a planet. It lies between 100 and 200 km below the surface. Below that, although the higher temperatures far exceed the melting points of the mantle rocks at the surface (about 1200 °C for representative peridotite), the mantle is solid because the enormous lithostatic pressure exerted on the mantle prevents melting.
  
  Insofar the solidifying of the uppermost mantle, where it has a plastic consistence, would not make a planet uninhabitable.
  
  Quite the contrary: There wouldn’t be any (plate) tectonic anymore. Tectonic plates ride on the asthenosphere and move in relation to one another. They are able to move because a planet's lithosphere has a higher strength and lower density than the underlying asthenosphere. Their movement is thought to be driven by the motion of hot material in the asthenosphere. Planetquakes, volcanic activity, mountain-building, and oceanic trench formation occur along plate boundaries. If now the asthenosphere solidifies, all that happens is that the tectonic plates can’t move in relation to one another anymore. Planetquakes, volcanic activity, mountain-building, and oceanic trench formation cease to happen. It is not unusual that terrestrial planets do not have plate tectonic. Its appearance is related to planetary mass, with more massive planets than Earth expected to exhibit plate tectonics. Earth may be a borderline case, owing its tectonic activity to abundant water (Silica and water form a deep eutectic.) The Venus for example shows no evidence of active plate tectonics. Insofar the nonexistence of plate-tectonic is not detrimental to its habitableness.
  
  Why would they try to reliquefy the mantle?
  
  No scientist would conclude something like your interpretation when seeing that episode happening in real life.
  
  On the other side, the core has two layers: The outer layer is liquid and only the inner layer is solid. The Dynamo theory suggests that convection in the outer core, combined with the Coriolis Effect, gives rise to Earth's magnetic field. The solid inner core is too hot to hold a permanent magnetic field (see Curie temperature) but probably acts to stabilize the magnetic field generated by the liquid outer core. Recent evidence has suggested that the inner core of Earth may rotate slightly faster than the rest of the planet. In August 2005 a team of geophysicists announced in the journal »Science« that, according to their estimates, Earth's inner core rotates approximately 0.3 to 0.5 degrees per year relative to the rotation of the surface. This all is only possible because the outer layer of the core is liquid so that it can rotate and allows the inner layer, the solid core, to rotate even faster. If the liquid layer of the core begins to solidify, than the habitants of its planet have a real problem and they would become very interested into reliquefying it.
  
  Insofar, it does not make sense to assume that they wanted to inject sufficient plasma directly into the mantle to reliquefy the mantle.
  
  And it does not make sense either to say that they wanted to reliquefy the core by injecting plasma into the mantle, because there is no way how that could have affected the core through 3.000 km of solid mantle rock (and that in less than 13 months).
  
  The only thing that makes sense is – as they have said – to reliquefy the core by injecting plasma into it directly.
  
  Furthermore the assumption that they have used the term core when they meant the mantle finds no support and is not plausible. Geordi and Data know apparently enough of the structure and the inner workings of a planet to deceive a plan to avert the cooling and solidifying. Insofar it is to assume that they know their terminology. Yes, they have erred in the past and are not above making mistakes. But it is wrong to assume that because they have erred once, they have to err always. If they were that incompetent, they wouldn’t be able to do what they are doing. Besides that, they have talked to Picard, Julianna and Pran. The latter two were, as it seems, experts on their field. If what Data and Geordi have elaborated hadn’t made sense in the least, at least these two would have said something. And even if one assumes that these two haven’t understood what was said, the fact remains that their plan was successfully executed.
  
  Besides that, they are using the terms crust mantle and core in their dialogue and seem to differentiate between all three just fine. As they have said: they drilled through the crust into the mantle to reach the pockets in the magma layer that are only a few kilometers away from the molten region of the core.
  
  Insofar your attempt to reinterpret what they have said cannot convince. Your idea of what happened cannot even work in theory.
  
  My interpretation of what happened is totally supported by the dialogue. But it makes it necessary to suspend disbelief as far as the existence of pockets in the magma layer are concerned and makes it necessary that a few problems are solved off-screen.
  
  I know that there should be no pockets in the magma layer. As there should have been no several kilometer large geode-like structures deep in the mantle of Earth in the movie »The Core«. But in both cases, I suspend my disbelief. If I were start to discard all events in a movie that are not compatible with current scientifically knowledge, whole movies wouldn’t make sense anymore.
  
  I know that if they would merely drill through the mantle, the created shaft would collapse. But I assume that there are technological possibilities to prevent that. The UfP had already planetary shields at TOS times (for further information see here. I do not want to debate that point with you now. I do not think that it is really relevant for our debate.) With the same technology they could erect shields down a shaft to prevent its collapsing.
  
  I know that the pocket in the magma layer should have a temperature around 4.000 °C. But the core was already cooling and we do not know how “cold” it was. And I see no reason to assume that they shouldn’t be able to cool it down as far as necessary.
  
  
  
  Furthermore: The plausibility of an explanation is not only measured on the counts of assumptions but on the plausibility of these assumptions. An explanation that has several very plausible assumptions is better than an explanation with only one but totally implausible assumption.
  
  That has something to do with the consequences of an assumption. The consequences of a plausible assumption are possible and straightforward. Hereby one has to consider that if an assumption is assumed as true, the consequences affect the whole system and not only one instance. With other words: If an assumption is assumed as true, it has always to be assumed as true unless there is another event that would make that assumption untrue. For example: If you conclude in one instance that a person is stupid, you have to assume it always unless something happens what would make that person intelligent. If you conclude that a person knows next to nothing of the physics of its own universe, you have to assume it always unless something happened that has taught the person physics. It wouldn’t be coherent to assume in one instance the one and in another instance the other thing.
  
  It’s another thing with things that can happen but don’t have to happen. One can make a mistake in one instance. That does not mean that one is always doing mistakes. That would be the wrong conclusion. But from the fact that the person has made a mistake one can conclude that the person is not above making mistakes from time to time.
  
  If you assume that Starfleet personal are stupid and know next to nothing of the physics of their own universe, you have to explain how it is possible that they are able to build and operate a ship that can fly faster than light and can deceive complex plans and execute them successfully again and again. Both is not compatible. While it may be the easiest assumption in some instances, it is an implausible assumption because its consequences are not possible.
  
  That’s the problem in your thinking. No scientist would ignore the possible consequences of an assumption on the whole system.

[Who is like God arbour]

Not that I really want to argue that point. But there are people who are saying that Data has made a mistake in the TNG episode »The Outrageous Okona« regarding the taxonomy of fishes and amphibians.

But that is not the only conclusion one could draw out of the dialogue.

Let us look at the dialogue:

• • • DATA:
    Mister Comic, I wish to know what is funny.

• • • COMIC:
    Funny? I don't know. It's a matter of opinion, I guess. Tip O'Neill in a dress? Some people say words that end with a K are funny. A briefcase that looks like a fish. Personally I find that hysterical.

• • • DATA:
    Tip O'Neill. Accessing. Twentieth century male, politician, overweight, wearing female clothing, carrying a valise that looks like a fish. So, the juxtaposition of gender and an amphibian briefcase is funny.

I can think of two interpretations in which Data hasn't made a mistake.

1. Data has not referred to the mentioned briefcase but its underlying concept and has tried to develop it further - maybe assuming that the form of e.g. a frog is more funny than a fish [O].
   That is an usual method of learning: the further development from something known to see if it still works. If it works, it is probable that you have understood the underlying concept and are now able to apply it.
2. Another possibility is that in the 24th century they have changed the taxonomy and what we would classify as a fish is now considered an amphibian. The discovery of new planets and on them new lifeforms can not happen without adjustments to the biological taxonomy. Maybe they have found on the majority of other planets fishs that are more like the Coelacanth on Earth.

Yes, that is only a speculation. But in the end, the assumption that Data has made a mistake is also only a speculation because the deciding informations are missing.

The question is, which consequences of which assumption are more compatible with the rest of the Star Trek universe.

But I do not want and will not argue that point further. It was only an attempt to show, how a change in an interpretation or the introduction of an assumption can result in a more compatible explanation.

And that is one very important qualification for an explanation: Not to have as least assumptions as possible but to have it fit into the available data.

No scientist would propose an explanation that is not compatible with the available data.