There's literally pages worth.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516327]Can you show that?[/quote]
Incoming.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iOeFPE8574
4.00 mins the SD's open fire - not gigatons
4.22 anomalous energy burst from SD in far left corner.
4.38 mins - not gigatons
6.08 concentrating fire on SSD, no bigaton explosions again
6.12 shield generator destroyed by a fighter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKWt0485 ... re=related
2.11 mins. Left corner an Acclamator is firing on another ship. Not bigatons
2.20 guns firing. Not gigatons.
2.31 mins. Centre screen. Again if gigatons the fighters would not be flying through the explosion
2.34 SPHAT firing - most impressive ship mounted weapon to date.
2.40 Trade Fedearion firoing on Acclamator. Damage to hull.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516327]Are you going to substantiate any of your claims, ever?[/quote]
Excuse me?! The only claim I've made is above.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516327]Or are you going to keep banging on that out-of-context GL quote and regurgitating flying turtle pictures?[/quote]
I didn't do the turtle pictures so you're complaining to the wrong person.
My quotes were taken from the Star Wars canon on wikiapedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_wars_ ... Wars_canon
As to the Lucas quotes, they'te above and not out of context and all are proven. Sorry but it's true.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516327]Or in other words, can you bring anything of substance to this argument, or are you going to keep repeating other peoples' disproved arguments, and when you're shown how they're wrong, stubbornly violate rule #14 with other peoples' material instead of defending yourself, for yourself?[/QUOTE]
Dude, there is no rule 14
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=100235
[QUOTE=Archimedes;7516380]Rogerd, you proved nothing about ICS being non canon or being seperate or EU being non canon.
Lucas
NEVER SAID anything of "canon".
Biased Trekkie is biased Trekkie.[/QUOTE]
Idiotic Warsie cannot fucking read. Now start reading the evidence presented.
[quote=]LUCAS: "I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world.
That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used.
When I said, other people, could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."[/quote]
[quote=]LUCAS: "They have their own kind of world. There's three pillars of Star Wars. I'll probably get in trouble for this but it's OK! There's three pillars: the father, the son and the holy ghost. I'm the father, Howard Roffman [president of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories. Now these three different pillars don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are all under my control and they are consistent within themselves. Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it's hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, "OK, go ahead." In the early days I told them that they couldn't do anything about how Darth Vader was born, for obvious reasons, but otherwise I pretty much let them do whatever they wanted. They created this whole amazing universe that goes on for millions of years!"[/quote]
Two different universes!
______________________________________________
[QUOTE=the atom;7516492]
Sweet Jesus. You actually think that nuclear warfare in space means there should be mushroom clouds don't you? Long story short,
space doesn't work that way.[/QUOTE]
________________________________________________
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516527]First off, an ellipsis is three periods. Secondly, I was expecting math. After all, if your claim is one that requires math to prove (energy in an explosion), you are going to need to man up and use some numbers.
Or concede. You can do that, too.
And I'm still waiting on the proof of that claim. But you've also claimed that the EU is a wholly separate universe, and that's not been substantiated either.
So that's two claims you really ought to provide evidence for, if you would like them taken seriously.
I know, and your repeated lack of originality was rather the point of the complaint, which appears to have sailed right over your head.
And taken totally out of context...another point which seems to have eluded you.
You see, what you'd
like to have is a quote where Lucas literally says, "things are different in the movies than they are in comics and books. A Star Destroyer in RotJ is a totally different thing than the Marvel Comics Star Destroyers, because they're parallel and separate universes."
But the quote you have doesn't saying anything like that. It's a quote from Lucas about the story elements he uses, when compared with the story elements from things like the novelizations, and how they are different and the details don't tend to brush up against each other. And if they do, Lucas' stories take precedence.
So you pretend one is the other. I don't think many here can't see the difference between those two statements, though.
Of course there is. Specifically, I am referring to the one that's also sticked at the top of this very forum as I write this, "Spacebattles is not a chan".[/QUOTE]
_______________________________________________
[QUOTE=Splattercat;7516486]I'm curious. Which is more current, the "Two Universe"
statement or the "G-T-C-N Canon"
policy?
Because the former is merely talk. The latter is corporate mandate.[/QUOTE]
Chee can say whay he liked but Lucas owns the company as therefore as such he is in charge. Owner > employee.
_______________________________________________
[QUOTE=the atom;7516492]
Sweet Jesus. You actually think that nuclear warfare in space means there should be mushroom clouds don't you? Long story short,
space doesn't work that way.[/QUOTE]
The fact that there were impacts and there was very little else shows that it is not the case.
_________________________________________________
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516527]First off, an ellipsis is three periods. Secondly, I was expecting math. After all, if your claim is one that requires math to prove (energy in an explosion), you are going to need to man up and use some numbers.[/quote]
Don't need maths it is quite clear in the scenes, stop ignoring that fact.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516527]And I'm still waiting on the proof of that claim. But you've also claimed that the EU is a wholly separate universe, and that's not been substantiated either.[/quote]
Again in post above. Stop ignoring evidence.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516527]So that's two claims you really ought to provide evidence for, if you would like them taken seriously.[/quote]
Nice try and total fail.
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=286
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516527]I know, and your repeated lack of originality was rather the point of the complaint, which appears to have sailed right over your head.[/quote]
Meaningless rubbish.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516527]And taken totally out of context...another point which seems to have eluded you.[/quote]
Rubbish and shifting the burden of proof.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516527]You see, what you'd
like to have is a quote where Lucas literally says, "things are different in the movies than they are in comics and books. A Star Destroyer in RotJ is a totally different thing than the Marvel Comics Star Destroyers, because they're parallel and separate universes."[/quote]
Did you actually read the link???!?!?!? 'Cos it certainly seems you like didn't.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516527]But the quote you have doesn't saying anything like that. It's a quote from Lucas about the story elements he uses, when compared with the story elements from things like the novelizations, and how they are different and the details don't tend to brush up against each other. And if they do, Lucas' stories take precedence.[/quote]
See above, it most certainly does.
[quote=]There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don’t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don’t get too involved in the parallel universe.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516527]So you pretend one is the other. I don't think many here can't see the difference between those two statements, though.
Of course there is. Specifically, I am referring to the one that's also sticked at the top of this very forum as I write this, "Spacebattles is not a chan".[/QUOTE]
Please enlighten me into what Chan-lkike behaviour you think I have done.
[QUOTE=Archimedes;7516572]Who said that I am warise? I am nothing. I was just throwing out a bone. Still, "two universes" proves nothing. I can read, I assure you. I don't still see anything saying "canon" at all.
Try again.[/QUOTE]
Clearly you cannot read that much is evident.
I said anything not in the movies or TCW CGI is a different universe in line with Lucas's comments. So yes it proves that ICS is a different universe to the movies.
[QUOTE=the atom;7516741]So either there's a company-wide conspiracy and Lucas Licensing is in fact a rouge organization dedicated to spreading misinformation
or Chee is following company policy and you're dishonestly quote mining for out of context snippets that you're desperately using to shore up a horribly broken position.
What?:wtf: 'Impacts' show that physics is wrong? Fuck you really are that stupid aren't you? Listen, if there's no medium of any kind for a blast to propagate, then there isn't going to be a blast wave or a fireball or anything one would associate with a really big bang. Then there's the fact that this energy is directed against a field that is absorbing and scattering the directed energy so in the end you're not coming away with a lot.
But of course, there's no SPACE! mushroom cloud so obviously I am wrong.:rolleyes:
Indeed it is.
[yt]7qF8a8BcIWs[/yt]
We're talking about canon you twit. It has everything to do with it. :wtf: Do you honestly even remember what we're talking about?[/QUOTE]
______________________________________________
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516748]So, you're conceding the argument? If you give no mathematical basis for your mathematically-based claim, that's the
only possible conclusion we can reach...and that's not just a forum rule, it's simply being reasonable.
How does that even make sense. How can a failure be a nice try?
Anyway, given that I've already addressed this post that you're inexplicably referencing now, we can only conclude that you're conceding on the Lucas argument as well.
I suppose you would say that, given that:
My Point
Your Head
How is it shifting the burden of proof to ask you to provide evidence of what you're doggedly insisting on?
Do you always whine this hard when you've lost a debate and you're backed into a corner?
As the saying goes...deal with it![/QUOTE]
___________________________________________
[QUOTE=the atom;7516741]So either there's a company-wide conspiracy and Lucas Licensing is in fact a rouge organization dedicated to spreading misinformation
or Chee is following company policy and you're dishonestly quote mining for out of context snippets that you're desperately using to shore up a horribly broken position.[/quote]
Stop shifting the burden of proof. I have clearly provided quotes and you are now ignoring evidence.
[QUOTE=the atom;7516741]What?:wtf: 'Impacts' show that physics is wrong?[/quote]
It is more a poor choice of words on my part - nothing else. At the end of the day there were explsions by weapons supposedly doing gigatons of damage. Clearly not evident in the above evidence provided.
[QUOTE=the atom;7516741]Fuck you really are that stupid aren't you?[/quote]
Ad hominem
[QUOTE=the atom;7516741]Listen, if there's no medium of any kind for a blast to propagate, then there isn't going to be a blast wave or a fireball or anything one would associate with a really big bang.[/quote]
Or like the hull of the ship you mean.
[QUOTE=the atom;7516741]Then there's the fact that this energy is directed against a field that is absorbing and scattering the directed energy so in the end you're not coming away with a lot.[/quote]
Unofrunately this is dissproven by the previous links.
[QUOTE=the atom;7516741]
But of course, there's no SPACE! mushroom cloud so obviously I am wrong.:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=the atom;7516741]Indeed it is.[/quote]
I'm crap at maths but I don't need it to show that an explosion is certainly less than gigatons with visual evidence
[QUOTE=the atom;7516741][yt]7qF8a8BcIWs[/yt][/QUOTE]
Yes it disintegrates an asteroid of unknown material.
___________________________________________________
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516748]So, you're conceding the argument? If you give no mathematical basis for your mathematically-based claim, that's the
only possible conclusion we can reach...and that's not just a forum rule, it's simply being reasonable.[/quote]
Stop shifting the burden of proof. Evidence supplied so please debunk it with some countering evidence
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516748]How does that even make sense. How can a failure be a nice try?[/quote]
Word games and baiting.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516748]Anyway, given that I've already addressed this post that you're inexplicably referencing now, we can only conclude that you're conceding on the Lucas argument as well.[/quote]
Again failing to counter my evidence which showed that Lucas considers them two seperate universes.
Again:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=286
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516748]I suppose you would say that, given that:
My Point
Your Head[/quote]
Irrelevant to argument and ignored.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516748]
How is it shifting the burden of proof to ask you to provide evidence of what you're doggedly insisting on?[/quote]
Evidence has been provided and you've failed to debunk it.
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516748]Do you always whine this hard when you've lost a debate and you're backed into a corner?[/quote]
I'm not backed into a corner.
______________________________________________
[QUOTE=Splattercat;7516817]Unless the employee is sufficiently empowered by the owner to make such distinctions because the owner can't be bothered to.
Hint: that's Chee's job..."Continuity Database Administrator"
What Chee says regarding canon
policy goes, unless Lucas has him change that policy. Lucas' opinion is, unfortunately, of lesser value.
Edited for clarity[/QUOTE]
Sorry but if Lucas says something that is different we go with Lucas as he is of higher standing within the company.
http://investing.businessweek.com/resea ... pId=902479
http://investing.businessweek.com/resea ... film%20Ltd
Chairman and Owner of greater import than anyone else.
__________________________________________________
[QUOTE=the atom;7516878]You haven't provided jack shit. Last time I checked, the holocron tier system is still company policy. If you want to insist on this line of reasoning, then I suggest you run along and find a statement that
explicitly declares that this is no longer the case.
Why? Because you say so? Prove it. I want to see numbers, calculations, and/or links the prove definitively that the effects seen are not those resembling a large quantity of energy striking an energy field of unknown properties in the middle of a vacuum.
No, Ad hominem is when I say 'Your argument is wrong because you're dumb'. What I said was 'Your argument is wrong AND you're dumb:'. No rule says that I have to respect your delicate feelings, especially when you've been hurling profanities and insults in lieu of anything vaguely resembling a tangible argument. Hey....which fallacy does that remind me of?
Nearly all warships in Starwars use shields you know. But since you brought the topic up, I'd be fascinated to learn about the material properties of the armour components used in Imperial and Rebel warships since, y'know, you
clearly know so much about them that you can casually make such an off the cuff statement without links or anything right?
'Unofrunately', you seem to have literally have no fucking clue what you even posted, so sorry if I don't
Actually you kind of do. "It doesn't look like it to me" isn't admissible as evidence here.
According to the TESB novelization the asteroid field is rocky in nature.[/QUOTE]
_________________________________
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516908]No it's not. You should actually read what you linked to.
As you can see, he wasn't using your stupidity in an attempt to negate the claim. It was merely a tangential observation.
Stop pretending that's happening because you're unable to defend your claim. Once again, you said that you can show the weapons being used are less than gigaton yields. That takes
math, fella. So get to it!
Your inability to respond thus far to what I said about that quote means you obviously have nothing to respond with. I guess it means my argument, that he's talking about story elements and not mechanics or technical details, must be pretty good.
Anyway, it's been about a page, and all I really wanted to do was offer you an opportunity to firm up your claims, as they were rather obviously flimsy and needed it. As you seem consistently unable to do so, that speaks for itself, but in my mind and I'm sure to anyone else reading this.[/QUOTE]
________________________________________
[QUOTE=Splattercat;7516921]Unless as stated above, he creates a position within his company that empowers someone to decide what is canon and what is not.
If the chairman of the company wants two different universes, he can tell his Continuity Database Administrator to dictate to the masses that Star Wars is two different universes. If he has done that I would like to see where.
If/since he has not, the canon policy written and maintained by the person the chairman has empowered to do so takes precedence over the chairman's own
personal feelings.[/QUOTE]
_______________________________________
[QUOTE=Splattercat;7516921]Unless as stated above, he creates a position within his company that empowers someone to decide what is canon and what is not.[/quote]
Chee is empowered.
[QUOTE=Splattercat;7516921]If the chairman of the company wants two different universes, he can tell his Continuity Database Administrator to dictate to the masses that Star Wars is two different universes. If he has done that I would like to see where.[/quote]
Already provide innumerable times. I mean fuck me, this is what the fourth, fifth time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you actually read the previous quotes which blatantly state two universes. 'Cos this is the final time otherwise I'm PM'ing a supermod.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_ ... canonicity
[quote=]There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don’t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don’t get too involved in the parallel universe.[/quote]
[quote=]LUCAS: "They have their own kind of world. There's three pillars of Star Wars. I'll probably get in trouble for this but it's OK! There's three pillars: the father, the son and the holy ghost. I'm the father, Howard Roffman [president of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories. Now these three different pillars don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are all under my control and they are consistent within themselves. Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it's hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, "OK, go ahead." In the early days I told them that they couldn't do anything about how Darth Vader was born, for obvious reasons, but otherwise I pretty much let them do whatever they wanted. They created this whole amazing universe that goes on for millions of years!"[/quote]
[quote=]There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don’t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don’t get too involved in the parallel universe.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Splattercat;7516921]If/since he has not, the canon policy written and maintained by the person the chairman has empowered to do so takes precedence over the chairman's own
personal feelings.[/QUOTE]
If someone less senior says something which is then contradicted by someone more senior - guess whose take precedence? Well in this case it would be Lucas. Sorry but that is the business world.
_________________________________________
[QUOTE=Sir_Tanly;7516908]No it's not. You should actually read what you linked to.
As you can see, he wasn't using your stupidity in an attempt to negate the claim. It was merely a tangential observation.
Stop pretending that's happening because you're unable to defend your claim. Once again, you said that you can show the weapons being used are less than gigaton yields. That takes
math, fella. So get to it!
Your inability to respond thus far to what I said about that quote means you obviously have nothing to respond with. I guess it means my argument, that he's talking about story elements and not mechanics or technical details, must be pretty good.
Anyway, it's been about a page, and all I really wanted to do was offer you an opportunity to firm up your claims, as they were rather obviously flimsy and needed it. As you seem consistently unable to do so, that speaks for itself, but in my mind and I'm sure to anyone else reading this.[/QUOTE]
Absolute rubbish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmYwX7r9ATo&feature=fvsr
2.42 onwards assaults on fighters. Sub-kiloton.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIM0ReXh ... re=related
EU source for sub-kiloton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcC90kEN4Wg
0.55 mins
Attacks against a Acclamators in an atmosphere.
Sub-kiloton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQWkNkan ... re=related
0.57 not gigatons
1.03 again sub-kiloton, no shield flares either.
2.32 sub-kiloton explosions
EDIT: We also have the Battle of Geonosis where those mini-turbolasers stop that Trade Federarion ship escaping. All impact it and although the shield likely absorbed most, when it clearly drops out of the sky then the lasers should have done full damage.
Here's some more quotes from Lucas
[quote=]CHEE: "GL is certainly not bound by the EU, though he's certainly open to using things created in it (Aayla Secura and the Coruscant name, for example). On the other hand, the quote you provide makes it sound like the EU is separate from George's vision of the Star Wars universe. It is not. The EU must follow certain tenets set by George through the films and other guidelines that he provides outside of the films."
Another noteworthy exchange between Lucas and an interviewer appeared in the May 2008 edition of Total Film magazine:
TOTAL FILM: "The Star Wars universe has expanded far beyond the movies. How much leeway do the game makers and novel writers have?" LUCAS: "They have their own kind of world. There's three pillars of Star Wars. I'll probably get in trouble for this but it's OK! There's three pillars: the father, the son and the holy ghost. I'm the father, Howard Roffman [president of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories. Now these three different pillars don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are all under my control and they are consistent within themselves. Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it's hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, "OK, go ahead." In the early days I told them that they couldn't do anything about how Darth Vader was born, for obvious reasons, but otherwise I pretty much let them do whatever they wanted. They created this whole amazing universe that goes on for millions of years!" TOTAL FILM: "Are you happy for new Star Wars tales to be told after you're gone?" LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."[/quote]
You'll notice he states that I'll probably get into trouble for this, but it's okay!
In other words he's breaking official canon by saying it. This therefore takes precedence over anything before.