I can't talk about the Borg building the weapons so fast. We have evidence that they can create matter out of nowhere, from VOY and ENT.
Memory Alpha says :
"In conjunction with the Borg, The Doctor developed modified nanoprobes (by reconfiguring them to give the same signature as species 8472's cells) which were able to effectively combat Species 8472 and their bioships."
We're talking about the Borg, adapting on the volley. All they seem to need to do is an alteration to the part of the nanoprobes that would emit a given signature to mimic 8472 cells. The question really is to what extent the nanoprobes were modified.
With their adaptation speed and technological power, plus the ability to grow some matter out of nothing, literally, and that in a few seconds and from a couple drones, I find it hard to believe that the entire Borg hive couldn't have their ships and drones inside said ships to begin update immediately.
Clues?
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Nanoprobe
"In 2375, Seven of Nine encoded some of her nanoprobes to assimilate the synthehol molecules in Kadi Ambassador Tomin's bloodstream, allowing him to recover from his intoxication in time to return to his people. (VOY: "Someone to Watch Over Me")"
How long did that take?
"In 2374, The Doctor was able to modify nanoprobes as an offensive weapon against Species 8472. He reprogrammed them to mimic the alien cells' electrochemical signatures, so that they could evade detection by Species 8472's immune system while continuing to assimilate. These nanoprobes could be delivered inside a photon torpedo or along a phaser beam. (VOY: "Scorpion", "Scorpion, Part II", "Prey")"
By Memory Alpha, what the Doctor did was
reprogram the nanoprobes.
Transcript:
EMH: I hope to unleash an army of modified Borg nanoprobes into his bloodstream, designed to target and eradicate the infection. As you know, I've been analysing the nanoprobes. They're efficient little assimilators, one can't help but admire the workmanship, but they're no match for the alien cells. So I successfully dissected a nanoprobe and managed to access its re-coding mechanism. I reprogrammed the probe to emit the same electrochemical signatures as the alien cells. That way, the probe can do its work without being detected. Observe. The alien cells are completely oblivious to probe until it's too late. Unfortunately, I've only created a few prototypes. I'll need several days to modify enough nanoprobes to cure Ensign Kim.
I think it's safe to assume he had to dissect one to get access to the program, otherwise attempting a normal connection with a nanoprobe may have been hasardous, or absolutely pointless.
So it appears the Doctor only did that, reprogram the code in some raw fashion. Then I'm sorry for herr white cream, but I can't see anything preventing the Borg from applying this modification within seconds.
Now, did 7 transmit the data? Obviously, she makes her report after the use of the high yield warhead, but why would have it only happened then? Why the connection not reestablished sooner?
The dialogue is ambiguous.
It's logical for 7 not to bother the captain when they come under attack. It's not like it would have made much of a difference to make her report earlier.
But with the episode, it's clear that as soon as she says she has regained contact, Janeway asks her what the Borg say, there's a beat, and 7o9 states the bugs are running away.
It's hard to agree that she sent all the data and the Borg immediately updated and fired weapons within the seconds when 7 just seems concentrated on taping the phone, really.
It's not impossible, but it's far from being what we get as part of the audience.
However, my question would be, why would it have to be 7 to send the data, when Voyager was partially borgified. Why would 7 not add all she already knew about the probes to the Borg hardware and have it send all the data on 7's signal (like, when they return to realspace), or even automatically. It's not like 7's connection with the collective seemed to be percieved by Voyager's sensors, right?
That would give the Borg a hell of a time to adapt about everything, from beams to torps to drones, mines, etc.
However, I don't know any evidence that any of the hardware in question could be linked to the collective, and above all even before 7 herself.
As for 40K, the rest is just white cream being obnoxious, as usual. He's being very obsessed about me though. :|
I wonder how he would fare outside of SBC and SDN if he had to defend the mearest fraction of the claims he makes. That would be funny to watch. There's not much bravery in his behaviour.
Mm... I'm going to check Ricrery1's quotes. There are some I know, some I didn't and some I think he misunderstood.
White cream's reaction to some of the quotes I actually know was very amusing. You can sense the panic. Leo used to behave the same way when he felt he was getting cornered. Especially his reactions to "Execution Hour" and "Shadow Point": "and?" or "so?"
It's quite known here now that these books really blow to pieces their sweat erected dogma they so obediently and zealously follow.
I'm not holding my breath over the "Ghostmaker" one. The "Necropolis" one could be very interesting, depending on what is said. I don't believe I've checked that book yet.
"Straight Silver"'s quote was recently presented
there, although as belonging to "Sabbat Martyr". Is it an error from Ricrery1 or Bane, or just the author repeating himself? Still, it's not an absolute thing that the quote would speak of maximum firepower, even if the wording is so odd that it implies that without four ships, such a destruction would be harder to complete, and getting close to impossible the lesser the ships. Still, I'd like to see Orsai's evidence that Gaunts are so ignorant that they can't be believed when they make claims about naval firepower. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you never know with Orsai.
"Ravenor" is quite interesting. If the ships' shields were as strong as they pretend, very few stars could be capable of destroying IoM warships, even if thrown into a sun. More specifics would be required for that one. Obviously, white cream plays the fool and feigns not understanding what this implies. Or he just doesn't understand it, which wouldn't surprise me either.
"Ravenor Rogue" is just more of the fact that Chaos or IoM forces would bother with virus bombing instead of going with their conventional firepower, in order to destroy a planet. That one will be interesting as well. The hammies' explanation as to why virus bombing is so necessary when you do have weapons in the giga/tera/petaton range has hardly been good enough. The best I've read is that they use it because it's frightening. Yeah, the defence is
that weak.
"Xenos", that's a rectification of the "petals of flame the size of continent" bullshit, the famous quotation always butchered to make it mean things it didn't mean. Fortunately, this was covered a while ago, and at least the hardcore hammies don't attempt to use it anymore.
"Salamander", iirc, is that case of a "flare" hitting a ship coming out the Warp at the ass-end of a star system. Something too odd, and better put on hold until I can get a closer look at that one.
"Nightbringer" may be a good one, at least regarding the asteroid case. We'd have to check out what is said about the yield of the weapon that would level the building and everything within a 50 km radius. Odd thing that they couldn't dial it down that easily. But if anything, it sets a low end, not a high end. Unless something in the book shows that the "vast forces" of the ship had to be understood as her complete firepower capacity.
Now, Orsai's counter argument about the asteroid is quite poor: "And those asteroids are described as out massing the Vae Victus by millions of tons, no shit L/Adm. Tiberius didn't want to get into a fender-bender with them." What matters is the relative velocity at impact, and the density of the material at the point of impact. Funny thing, an object 999 million tonnes heavy would
begin to become a threat if it moved at 100 km/s at the moment of impact, and that of course all the mass of the object came to a stop. I know Orsai says that the asteroids outmassed the warship by millions of tonnes, but 999 M is quite the absolute high end of it. If you check Wong's calculator, the asteroid would either be about 940 meters wide for hard granite, or over 620 meters wide for pure nickel-iron.
Speed will also determine if shields would be useful or not. I'm not sure why they'd try to fly into that asteroid field so fast though. 100 km/s is stupidly extreme, and yet, with the maximum weight, it's practically required to enter the release of semen threshold.
"Rynn's World" would only be interesting for the mountain cratering, eventually.
"The Purging of Kadillus" might be worth a look. At least the quote provided shows that some dorsal weapons were used, and heavy weapons tend to be there, aside from bow mounted axial accelerators.
"Tales of Heresy" could be good, and as for "Thousand Sons", I think I added that one to the misc thread already.
On just small note on what creamy said though:
"Bullshit, Oragahn didn't provide any quotes that were never refuted. He's posted stuff that he's offered his own opinion on the interpretation of. I do like this idea that he's the guy who can decide which author is wrong about things though."
Kor, what do you mean by me saying that authors were wrong on several occasions?
Orsai wrote:
EDIT - Oh yeah, and we know from The Sabbat Worlds Crusade and Dark Disciple that IoM ships can hang about in the flare zone (rather than umpteen billion miles away, as the Vulkan's Wrath was) of a star without any trouble worth mentioning.
Can't wait to see those.
