LMAO@SpaceBattles!

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat May 15, 2010 10:57 pm

Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:Do you believe this crap?.

I sent this message to Alyeska, i dunno how much good it will do though.

Can you please do something about the unjust ban i recieved from one of your moderators, i have no idea how to apeal but i would like to request to do so.

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=277

He PERMA banned me for disagreeing with his DET theory, what the heck kind of debate forum bans you for having a differance of opinion?.

Here is the truth about the 4 points he says against me:


1. I never support my own arguments with marakor and the only reason i have him is cos i joined with him in 09 and forgot, in fact i never even posted with him until this year and only ever did so when i was on the other PC as he logged in automatically instead of Kor. If i knew how i would delete him.

2. I know what the words i use mean and how they effect my theories, he is just angry because his theory was made to look overly complicated and foolish when i examined it compared to mine.

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=155

3. I am more than willing to listen as i clearly looked at this hyperspace effect and found a few flaws in the quote given about it regarding the claim that it had the same power as the DET theory:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=269

What he really means is he wants unquestioning acceptance of his belief.

4. Read point 1 in post 249,

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=249

Then his first reply (and faulty assumption of my "intuition" and "objection") in post 251,

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=251


then i correct him in post 257,

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=257

then the top of 261 where he calls me a liar

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=261

and then 264 where i point out AGAIN i made no claims other than I DID NOT KNOW WHY.

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=264

Now i would like to point out that in the thread i have been subject to insults and flames (breaking rule 1), i stuck to principles and logic as much as it is possible and even supplied calculations when required.
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=173

And i broke none of the rules, unless disagreeing with a warsie moderator is the "hidden rule".


Cpl_Facehugger has abused his position and deliberatly ignored the truth in this matter because of his personal preferance regarding the debate subject..
Well I'm certainly not too hot on the Marakor account thing either. You even happened to use both accounts in the same thread alternatively:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthre ... ost4807021

Perhaps they'll let you create a third account now that you know the rules.
That said, the others reasons are silly.
It seems that the moderation is really getting increasingly mediocre over there. It's unfortunate.

Oh, seeing Vehrec attack your theory, good or bad, because it's nonsense, and then make the following statement in post 261...
Vehrec wrote:The DET weapon explains the ring in a perfectly satisfactory manner. It hits the planet so hard that parts of it spontaneously transfer directly to hyperspace. This is directly supported by the canon, in that novel you refuse to read. "At full charge the hyper-matter reactor provided a superluminal 'boost' that caused much of the planet's mass to be shifted immediately into hyperspace.
... is just too hilarious. I swear it's not the first time I've read that silly claim. I'm also sure someone used it against l33telboi in the past.
Since when a massive direct energy transfer resulted into stuff being spontaneously thrown into hyperspace again? Which department of astrophysics is this nonsense coming from?

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Sat May 15, 2010 11:16 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Well I'm certainly not too hot on the Marakor account thing either. You even happened to use both accounts in the same thread alternatively:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthre ... ost4807021
I haqve 2 PC's in the house and one when i use firefox logs into Kor, and when i use the same PC but use internet explorer it logs me into marakor, the other does a simular thing. As such if im not really paying attention when i reply or post i can sometimes get some cross over but by all means check and you will see i never support my own posts ect or abuse the fact.

Anyway we both know thats just a bullshit excuse because he cannot tolerate or handle a counter theory to his crap.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Perhaps they'll let you create a third account now that you know the rules.
That said, the others reasons are silly.
It seems that the moderation is really getting increasingly mediocre over there. It's unfortunate.
I look at the sniping, the foul language, the insults and abuse some ppl posted in that thread and it really confuses me that it was me that got bloody banned.

I have no idea who the best person to take this to is and would like some advise on a fair and reasonable moderator to contact if such a thing exists on SB.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Sat May 15, 2010 11:25 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Oh, seeing Vehrec attack your theory, good or bad, because it's nonsense, and then make the following statement in post 261...
Vehrec wrote:The DET weapon explains the ring in a perfectly satisfactory manner. It hits the planet so hard that parts of it spontaneously transfer directly to hyperspace. This is directly supported by the canon, in that novel you refuse to read. "At full charge the hyper-matter reactor provided a superluminal 'boost' that caused much of the planet's mass to be shifted immediately into hyperspace.
... is just too hilarious. I swear it's not the first time I've read that silly claim. I'm also sure someone used it against l33telboi in the past.
Since when a massive direct energy transfer resulted into stuff being spontaneously thrown into hyperspace again? Which department of astrophysics is this nonsense coming from?

No buddy the real GEM is how Traitor had the nerve to post this:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=279

In regards to this statment:
"At full charge the hyper-matter reactor provided a superluminal 'boost' that caused much of the planet's mass to be shifted immediately into hyperspace. As a result, Alderaan exploded into a fiery ball of eye-smiting light almost instantaneously, and a planar ring of energy reflux-the shadow of a hyperspatial ripple-spread rapidly outward."
As a result = a chunk?....
At full charge = lower limit?..



How the hell can he ban me when the junk his buddies post is so pitiful, and why do others let him get away with it?.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun May 16, 2010 12:43 am

I don't understand what's the problem with Traitor, although it could be on the bit where you two disagree on what causes what. Imho, the "as a result" defines a cause-consequence chain of logic. Clearly the planet is blasted apart because for some reason much of its mass is boosted into hyperspace. How this can happen... that's beyond explainable. There's no hyperdrive involved, the only thing which could be remotely related would be the prefix hyper that's shared with hypermatter.

As for your account, I think you should wait a bit, and err... try another time, and somehow make things clearer. IF you really find it more practical to have two accounts because you switch from one PC to the other, just make your two accounts very close in name and put an indication in the signature of both, or something, so you don't leave people guessing, because that's exactly what was wrong here imho, in that even I didn't realize that both accounts were yours. You must not keep such things secret, no matter if you don't get malicious about it.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Tyralak » Sun May 16, 2010 2:32 am

Places like SpaceBattles and SDN raise my blood pressure. I can't stand going to places that are so uptight. Especially the hypocritical garbage of shutting down posters who disagree with the mods, but allowing all kinds of behavior from those who agree with them. Places like that just aren't fun at all.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Sun May 16, 2010 8:34 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:I don't understand what's the problem with Traitor, although it could be on the bit where you two disagree on what causes what. Imho, the "as a result" defines a cause-consequence chain of logic. Clearly the planet is blasted apart because for some reason much of its mass is boosted into hyperspace. How this can happen... that's beyond explainable. There's no hyperdrive involved, the only thing which could be remotely related would be the prefix hyper that's shared with hypermatter..
His logic is kinda funky, he seems to need to split his theory to suit each part of the statment even though he contradicts himself.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:As for your account, I think you should wait a bit, and err... try another time, and somehow make things clearer. IF you really find it more practical to have two accounts because you switch from one PC to the other, just make your two accounts very close in name and put an indication in the signature of both, or something, so you don't leave people guessing, because that's exactly what was wrong here imho, in that even I didn't realize that both accounts were yours. You must not keep such things secret, no matter if you don't get malicious about it.
It is not more practical in fact its a pain in the ass because if i forget what browser i have opened on what PC and just make a post sometimes i post on marakor by mistake. On several occasions i had to redit a post i made on marakor because i was replying to a post that was made to Kor or visa versa simply because i had not realised whitch browser i had open on that particular PC and did not check the top right to see what name i was posting under.

I never abused the duality by posting "hey this guy is great" or "his ideas/theories are cool" comments about my other character or his opinions, in fact at about the end of april i had gotten to the point (after a few weeks/months of cross posting mistakes) where i was in the habit of posting almost exclusively with Kor.

In fact this reply in the thread was actually a edit i had to make because i replied to facehugger by mistake on marakor in his discussion with Kor.
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... stcount=52

Although i dunno why it does not show the edit time on the bottom anymore, maybe i caught it and chanfged it before i clicked post.

When all said and done im not sure i wish to be part of a debate forum that has moderators who ban you for winning a debate with them, who actually brag about how they were pleased that others continued the debate after they bailied so enough time could pass to give them the ability to ban.

Apart from having 2 accounts (even though i did not abuse the fact) the other 3 points he made are in actual fact things he is guilty of to a HUGE degree.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Sun May 16, 2010 12:36 pm

The fact that you had two accounts that you were using at the same time is going to be pretty hard to explain to satisfaction.

If you've been posting from the same house with them, though, that information had to be available to Facehugger the entire time. It is a little interesting that Facehugger didn't contact another mod to drop the hammer on you earlier. It seems clear that there's a policy of not having debated the member for a week before performing acts of moderation, and if that's so, he seemed to have quite deliberately dropped out of the debate and waited almost exactly one week after his last post in the thread to do so.

For anybody coming from elsewhere and wondering about why mod favoritism is being invoked, I'll give a quick and easy example.

The Tech Forum specifically has a civility rule, distinct from the VS forum rules:
Rules of the Tech Forum, SB.com wrote:All VS forum rules are applicable in this forum.

The Technical Debate forum is for serious discussion of the science and technology behind various Science Fiction universes.

1) You are to remain civil at all times. Do not insult the people you are discussing or debating with. Do not flame them. Treat them with respect. Failing that, treat them with civility. You don't have to be friends, but I expect you to act like you are.
Enforcement of this rule is completely absent in the thread and in general completely overlooked with respect to pro-Wars debaters, e.g., see Lord Vespasian, post 276 in the thread.

There's also a severe side-track between Kittamaru and Rama over the USS Odyssey ramming. (Good catch by Kittamaru on pointing out the bugship explodes in the frame of contact, and is therefore anything but a simple impactor, by the way, but it's not especially germane to SW firepower).

Interestingly, neither the VS forum rules nor Technical Discussion forum rules explicitly prohibit the use of dual accounts. There is brief mention of accusing people of being sock puppets as against the rules, under a section referring to "pile-on" posts. A rule which if enforced, I might add, most of the SDN/SDN-style debaters on SB.com would have been banned long ago, since "piling on" as described in the rule is a primary tactic of theirs.

Oh, and Facehugger, if you're reading this, and think your last post was remotely relevant:
Elaborate please. What physical laws are broken by the idea that mass can be stored in a form that doesn't impact the ship's performance?
That will be fairly basic. Here's one - moving mass/energy down and up gravitational gradients decreases/increases its energy value by an amount appropriate to its rest mass. You're going to run into all your usual conservation law issues.

Basically speaking, you need to have the mass/energy be stored in a separate universe for hypermatter to work as you require it to.
Hypermatter is very energy dense. Much more interesting, is the unknown mechanism by which the power is stored-these capacitors must be capable of storing an incredible energy density.
Note, incidentally, that capacitors' energy storage is wholly conventional in nature. Thus, when the capacitors are charged, they will contain all the apropos energy of the firing in a very real and perfectly well behaved electrostatic form in the real universe.
No. My theory about hypermatter involves me believing that SW science has found a way to store large amounts of mass without the visible effects of this mass on ship performance. Personally I think the most likely method is turning it to tachyons, since hypermatter shares a prefix with hyperdrives.

That idea is to explain why SW ships can generate large amounts of energy without being 99% fuel tank and 1% ship like you'd need for that sort of thing in a more "hard science" setting. It's really extremely simple in theory. The actual knowledge and technology necessary to do so in reality would be staggering, of course... Just like making a death star.
That's not a theory. That's a hand-wave, pure and simple - which is why Saxton, more scientifically trained, consistently treats hypermatter as a super-dense form of exotic matter with real momentum in the real universe:
Saxton wrote:Outer layers or subsidiary systems may involve nuclear fusion reactions but the scale of power generation requires that the core process is direct and total annihilation of mass.
He has a number of pet theories about the "true" nature of hypermatter, but ultimately they do indeed involve SW ships being 99+% fuel tank.

The energy of a tachyon is (in hypothetical terms, of course, we don't actually observe tachyons) in fact real: An imaginary rest mass multiplied by an imaginary gamma derived from its velocity. Using tachyons doesn't get you away from the fundamental problems of storing a large amount of energy in a fixed place and dealing with the associated mass/energy-momentum problems. No "realistic" solution will have the characteristics described; in order to get you away from the storage problems, you must invoke fiction.

There remains, of course, numerous other complications which are not addressed even by this essentially arbitrarily powerful assumption, however, which is why any rigorous application of Occam's Razor rips a DET Death Star to shreds.

It's simpler to posit an unknown phenomenon involving the economical shunting of matter into hyperspace (temporarily or permanently, and not necessarily with significant velocity) which handles all the observed complications of the Death Star without introducing new ones that must be explained via further mechanisms. If I'm not greatly mistaken, there are at least a half dozen serious complications remaining for a DET superlaser between the films and EU which must be addressed individually in an ad hoc fashion.

You are cordially invited to come continue the discussion here in the Trek/Wars section, with myself and/or Kor. If you like, I'll butt out while the two of you have a nice little set-piece debate with a fixed number of posts under mutually agreed rules.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Sun May 16, 2010 1:52 pm

Jedi Master Spock wrote:The fact that you had two accounts that you were using at the same time is going to be pretty hard to explain to satisfaction. .
It is quite easy actually, i joined on the marakor account last year but never even used it, i forgot about it and this year i setup and started posting on the Kor account. When i join SB through internet explorer i join on the marakor account and when i join through firefox im on the Kor account (and visa versa on my other PC), i never abused the fact i had 2 accounts not did i support my own theories with them. In fact it was very annoying as i found that if i was not paying attention to what PC or browser i was using id post replies on the wrong name.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:If you've been posting from the same house with them, though, that information had to be available to Facehugger the entire time. It is a little interesting that Facehugger didn't contact another mod to drop the hammer on you earlier. It seems clear that there's a policy of not having debated the member for a week before performing acts of moderation, and if that's so, he seemed to have quite deliberately dropped out of the debate and waited almost exactly one week after his last post in the thread to do so.
He knows, he even clearly brags about it in his post about banning me, his stupid theory got disected and was made to look stupid along with himself so he decided to play the "rules game" and manipulate a situation that he could find a feeble excuse ban me for. All the things he accuses my posts of doing are actually applicable to his rubbish but he cannot come to terms with it and banned me for pointing it out.

I cannot tell you how disapointed i am at SB for allowing this sort of disgusting behaviour to go on from its moderators.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun May 16, 2010 4:56 pm

While I agree that having two accounts was bad, all his other reasons to enforce modding the way he did is nothing short of complete buffoonery and mod power abuse. Hell it does get so silly now that you don't even get warned. Looks like things are accelerating out of control.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Sun May 16, 2010 5:32 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:While I agree that having two accounts was bad
.

I would accept a ban if i had abused the fact or used it maliciously.

Mr. Oragahn wrote:all his other reasons to enforce modding the way he did is nothing short of complete buffoonery and mod power abuse. Hell it does get so silly now that you don't even get warned. Looks like things are accelerating out of control.

You can see his screwed up logic.

1. His theory is right.

2. His science is right.

3. Therefore any who debate/disagree with his theory or have another are:-

Ignorant and using terms and buzzwords without knowing what they mean! insisting their theories be given equal weight to more well-founded ones when they make no sense to anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of physics!.

Arrogant for being unwilling to recognize that he knows about the subject matter and science and is right.

He even blatantly lies when he claims he has a direct quote proving i said something i did not, when in fact the quote proves that i said no such thing and said no more than i did not know the answer.

And as such they deserve to be banned for not realising this and having the sense to switch positions and support his theory. The self-righteous clown even goes as far to call disagreeing with him (because that is what it boils down to) heresies like he is some power from on high smiting the pagan unbelievers.

How the hell does a deluded idiot like that get into such a position of authority and why is allowed to continue to abuse his position and make a mockery the entire debate forum?.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun May 16, 2010 5:58 pm

For this post, Vehrec was right to explain why the DET beam wouldn't go through the planet, but his fault was believing it was an objection from you.
Of course, I can see how from his point of view, he thought that you made point 1 to indirectly imply that if an explanation existed for the lack of "through and thorough", it had to be one which relied on exoticism of some sort.

That's all. It's the verging of two people's opinions which didn't really mesh together: you making a point which, to you, didn't mean much and, in fact, was useless -if you had no idea, why quote someone's question and say you can't explain that- and Veherc, snapping in thinking you did this on purpose based on your assumption of how a DET beam should work.

In the end, that you were probably wrong on how a DET beam would behave should have never been used as an excuse to ban you. Otherwise CPLF would have already been banned a hundred times by now. :p
I would accept a ban if i had abused the fact or used it maliciously.
It doesn't matter. Using two accounts at the same time and not warning anyone that they both were yours is generally seen as something wrong. You won't escape this fact.
So if your ban still allows it, try contacting the admins and see with them what can be done, after explaining your case. Alyeska may give you an ear and still have contacts, but he doesn't have any effective power anymore.
And I'd say try cooling down a bit. I understand it really feels unfair, but it's certainly not going to help anytime. If it doesn't work, just create another account and perhaps apologize for the double account thing -you certainly don't have to apologize for the rest- and move on.
Once I got banned for openly stating I was going to ignore some moron's arguments, without knowing that there was a rule against that. I learned, I apologized and that's all.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Tyralak » Sun May 16, 2010 5:59 pm

I never could figure out why so many boards frown upon sock puppetry to begin with. It usually makes for some good lulz.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Sun May 16, 2010 7:01 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:For this post, Vehrec was right to explain why the DET beam wouldn't go through the planet, but his fault was believing it was an objection from you.
Of course, I can see how from his point of view, he thought that you made point 1 to indirectly imply that if an explanation existed for the lack of "through and thorough", it had to be one which relied on exoticism of some sort.
His assumption is stupid considering that in point 2 i show no qualms what so ever in pointing out how the rings disproves the DET theory. Why would i "imply" with a comment about not knowing when in the very next comment i clearly have no problem stating a fact i know and its effects on the theory.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: That's all. It's the verging of two people's opinions which didn't really mesh together: you making a point which, to you, didn't mean much and, in fact, was useless -if you had no idea, why quote someone's question and say you can't explain that- and Veherc, snapping in thinking you did this on purpose based on your assumption of how a DET beam should work.
If you look at what i was replying to you can see that it was in fact 2 questions, one about it drilling through the planet and one about the ring (3 if you count his comment about visable effects). In that regard they had to be seperated because supporting one without being clear that i did not know the answer to the first would have been a even bigger implication than the one he assumed.

Lets face it i was in a no win situation from the moment i made CPLF and his theory look stupid and he was going to dream up any excuse to ban me as soon as the time limit was up, he even purposefully stopped debating and posting in the thread so he could do so.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Sun May 16, 2010 8:56 pm

I do seem to recall SB.com has some supermoderator/admin appeal structure somewhere. You might try that. I know that we've seen a couple cases where a penalty has been reduced or eliminated when the moderator was clearly being vindictive.
Tyralak wrote:I never could figure out why so many boards frown upon sock puppetry to begin with. It usually makes for some good lulz.
Well, abusing multiple accounts can make you look more convincing. You can produce your own strawmen (IIRC, SDN has been accused of doing so), and you can produce your own supporters saying "me, too!"

You can even play out someone arguing against you and then coming around to your side. Also, people who've stopped listening to one account might still pay attention to the other one.

In some cases that last reason is cause for renaming yourself across different boards, even if you're not actually using multiple accounts on any one board; e.g., Leo1/Vympel has probably benefited from people replying to him on SB.com not immediately realizing that he's a core member of the SDN community and a moderator there.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Tyralak » Sun May 16, 2010 10:25 pm

Jedi Master Spock wrote: Well, abusing multiple accounts can make you look more convincing. You can produce your own strawmen (IIRC, SDN has been accused of doing so), and you can produce your own supporters saying "me, too!"

You can even play out someone arguing against you and then coming around to your side. Also, people who've stopped listening to one account might still pay attention to the other one.

In some cases that last reason is cause for renaming yourself across different boards, even if you're not actually using multiple accounts on any one board; e.g., Leo1/Vympel has probably benefited from people replying to him on SB.com not immediately realizing that he's a core member of the SDN community and a moderator there.
This is true. However, sock puppets can be amusing. Most of the time mine are for teh lulz. Parody socks, etc. For example, at TrollKingdom I have my main Dirk Funk persona, which is the bulk of my posting plus my moderator powers. (I'm the moderator of the Badlands forum at TrollKingdom) Then I have several sock puppets (or "duals" as they call them there) Towlie, Nice Bad Guy, Blackfoot's Dick, Pink Sock Puppet, etc. I usually bring them out for amusement and/or to make a point that's better said by an alter-ego.

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