*Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

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Mr. Oragahn
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*Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:24 pm

As usual, some warsies don't seem to handle criticism of their favourite pet preconceptions, and it only takes a mod with obviously no bias to hold the debate up.

The thread:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=151489

Started with Jack Fetch asking:
Jack Fetch wrote: Just curious about this.

Has there ever been any explanation given in either official stuff or fandom for why the At-At guns had practically no affect on the ground in the Hoth assault?

Or likewise the Snowspeeders. With the typical power of star-wars guns could they not have simply blasted holes in the ground beneath the At-At's feet?

I've tried searching on here, SD.net and a few other places but couldn't find anything specific.
At some point appeared the topic of Imperial tactics, and old recurring topic.

As I was about to reply to Lord Vespa's last post (number 70, in date), I got the following message:
You have been banned for the following reason:
Rules violations in tech debates (sniping, illogical argumentation.)

Date the ban will be lifted: Aug 8th 2009, 10:00pm
Obviously someone couldn't handle his not-so-convincing claim to be challenged and went whining in his mother's skirts.
One has to love the claim about sniping -the hell, I precisely address all the points-- and illogical argumentation is only an opinion from a mod who obviously didn't pay much attention to the arguments, or perhaps didn't even care, and wanted an absurd nonsensical excuse to slam a ban right here.

But what was the deal, really? Perhaps I could know the mod, if he had posted in the thread.
So I refreshed the thread and here was Cpl_Facehugger intervening (oh the surprise), with the wisdom for which we all know him, surely:
Oraghan, take a week off for arguments that have little to do with technical details and are poorly reasoned to boot. "we don't know that it was AT-ATs firing on the base" when AT-ATs (and AT-STs) are the only things we saw at all isn't an acceptable argument. The term 'appeal to ignorance' comes to mind.

Forgetful, take an infraction for a post here that contributes nothing to the thread.

Evil Author, you too.

Sayle, you made me laugh so I'll let you off with an informal warning.

All others: The ban finger is itchy. Keep that in mind when you continue this thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.
Well... well... well. I don't know where to start from.
Once again, I am truly amazed by the capacity of a warsie mod to show a great deal of intelligence and showing his total detachment to the topic. He surely got pissed off, obviously, so he fell he had to stop me before I could reply.

But let's see his points, one by one.
Oraghan, take a week off for arguments that have little to do with technical details and are poorly reasoned to boot.
Never mind that thus far, in the thread, I have been the one presenting most technical data, including numbers and several pictures and sources.
As for the appreciation about my arguments, I have to say that considering past debates with CPL, I should probably take that as a compliment.
"we don't know that it was AT-ATs firing on the base" when AT-ATs (and AT-STs) are the only things we saw at all isn't an acceptable argument.
The term 'appeal to ignorance' comes to mind.
And yet we never saw them firing at the base.
And yet, as a great EUphile, he seems to miss the list of other Imperial units present at this battle. I suppose they're not even worth the mention. Nevermind that the thread never started with a criterion such as movie canon only.
Forgetful, take an infraction for a post here that contributes nothing to the thread.
Pot Kettle Black. I just happen not to be a mod.
Evil Author, you too.

Sayle, you made me laugh so I'll let you off with an informal warning.

All others: The ban finger is itchy. Keep that in mind when you continue this thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.
I'll let you appreciate the standards of moderation here.

And CPL_Facehugger, I know you'll be reading this.
You have my most sincere finger, and I'll see you in one week.

And, anyway, the reply I intended to post:
Lord Vespasian wrote:
What resistance? They had nothing before, they were running away, their forces nearly destroyed, and the Imperials unstopped.
Well, as I pointed out, Leia ordered the ground troops to cover the fighters, which were presumably near the transport landing zone, which is near the ion cannon. So yeah, there would have been some resistance. Not enough to stop the AT-ATs, but they're not particularly fast anyway.
What is the source for this bolded part?
It's certainly not in agreement with the WOTC data.
Not that I'm feeling bound to WOTC's guide...
As for the position of the Ion Cannon, a schematic in a RPG guide Rebellion Era Sourcebook, from WOTC, shows the following
Ok. So it's a couple of kilometers away?
According to this schematic, for all the parts that are right, yes.
Now, the main power generator was a couple of kilometers away as well, but it didn't prevent Veers from shooting at it.
More importantly, according to this source, the ion cannon was totally isolated.
There's no reason why Vader's transport, which if it was a Lambda shuttle, would be well suited for the bombardment task, or any other troop transport shuttle or TIE, couldn't go off shooting that damn globe.
We're supposed to think that the Imperials had not enough numbers to attack the shieldless landing zone, yet Vader still went down there. Then, as he wandered into Echo Base, no one would actually help him, making sure that no one would leave.
Vader probably couldn't have cared less about the transports. Capturing Luke or, failing that, the Falcon was all he cared about. It's not exactly unlike him to go off and do his own thing while a battle's raging around him.
And although you recognize Vader's personnal involvment (and we all know his bad temper as well), you don't see how putting ships around the landing zone and at the exit would help him capture his target, or the princess if she were to jump on any random transport.
The claim that he wouldn't care about the transports is silly, considering that his targets could very well escape onboard them. Actually, many high ranking Rebels did, and Leia would have been among them, if it has not been for some lumps of ice.
Of course Vader could not know if Luke would be on one of those transports either, or on the Falcon, or aboard any of these X-wings for the matter of fact.
However, conveniently, you set Vader as a guy convinced that the Falcon was all there was to chase.
Fortunately I think most people would understand it's absurd.
He was even lucky, in fact, that Leia and Han ended on the same ship. The same ship which escaped because no one had the exit covered.

If at least there was a sign of DCA or something beyond the X-wings that were not enough to cover even two transports at once!
Moreover, so far as the novelization says, only eighteen Imperial ships left Hoth (six Star Destroyers, a dozen supporting ships). With at least two knocked out by the ion cannon and at least eighteen transports to chase, yeah, I'd say they're pretty busy. So no, I don't see anything wrong with them not attacking that final transport in the arbitrary time frame you've insisted they could have easily attacked it in.
The hell. Arbitrary?
You think there is anything arbitrary between the moment Veers blows the generator up and the time Luke, on foot, finally reaches the take off zone, or if you want a short timeframe, between the moment the Imperial land at Echo Base and the time Luke slowly joins the departing ships?

I can rewatch TESB without a problem, but that part does not make sense. A Sith Lord does not assume the lead of a search and capture mission, to grab the leaders who'd remain till the end, only to leave a major grouping of ships that have no departed, plus a whole gaping exit, completely unassaulted.
It's retarded.

If at least there was any dsecription of even some kind of DCA around that place and on the the mountain ridge, preventing any flying ship the Imperials had used to get down there, that would really help.
At least you could continue to insist that not a single warship could have been shooting at the North entrance from orbit eitber because of the ion cannon or them being busy catching all the transports.
It's still much easier to capture or shoot down ships when they're on the ground and all parked in the same spot, then spread throughout the Hoth system
Sure it is. Of course, practically every transport had already lifted off before the shield was taken down.
This does not matter. Refer above, about Vader's goal and the stupid idea of giving Rebels a chance to get off, completely counter productive to Vader's mission.
See, you can't have both ends. If there were no ships available to shoot at the base, there's not going to be anyone to catch Luke and co when they depart.
That would explain Luke's easy escape once in space, but certainly not the total freedom the Rebels benefited from outside of the base, on the ground, and the lack of barrage fire at the North entrance.
Yet there was one sd alread there to chase the MF, plus two others to cut her path.
That does not really sound that there were no warships to intercept the remaining fleeing cargos.
And with all that prep and Vader being called for landing, the Imperials could still not manage to attack the ion cannon by a surprise counter attack.
Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. Again, just a pile of assumptions on your part.
It's not assumption, it's logic.
If they didn't shoot the cannon, then the warships wouldn't approach. However, it makes little sense that by now, no Imperial unit would have brought this cannon down. As I said, even a warship coming from outside the ion cannon's LOS could have attacked it, if only by shooting the mountain cliff from orbit or using collateral damage with constant bombardment around said cannon.
If the cannon was down, the situation makes even less sense.
Now, the Imperials didn't know the Rebels had such a weapon. But once the gun was fired, there was nothing to mask the origin of the fire to the Imperial forces.
Also, they'd know very quickly how many of such defenses the Rebels had, based on how many times they got fired at, and where those bolts came from.
Two star destroyers down from the same gun, it doesn't require a genius to know how many guns are firing.
I'm sure you think you have a point in there somewhere...
You'll just have to pardon me for not thinking "I think they should have done X in Y amount of time!" is very convincing.
You're playing the dumb one but you perfectly know this method wouldn't require much intelligence to conceive.
You have two clear targets that are problematic to the supremacy of Imperial forces: the shield and the gun. I don't think it's that hard to understand that taking down that gun ASAP would also be an advantage, if not a priority, just after the shield.
Now your reaction should not be surprising, considering that warsies like you seem rather fine with the Imperials demonstrating utter stupidity in their tactical choices.
Don't you think that just the fact that the ship is gigantic wouldn't help just a bit to soak up some shots before failing, eh?
Sure, Executor could take more damage than any ISDs, but that doesn't translate into your assumption that she can take out the ion cannon before it takes her out.
Another silly point of your I guess. It's not like the ion cannon was a sitting duck with a low rate of fire, with no sure idea where the Executor could come from, especially during an assault where sensors might be jammed or even damaged.
Then, on the other hand, as I said, you have the Executor, obviously capable, just by its sheer size, to take more shots than the two or three that took care of an ISD.
I don't even see why the Executor would be too slow to fire at the cannon, since it would obviously be looking forward to this quick shot. But I guess warsie logic is at apain, again.
Now, that's an Executor that's either 17.6 or 19 km long, bristling with weapons, knowing where its target is, and capable of coming in from any vector, at any angular speed.

Funny how those who loved to claim that those destroyers, capable of super accuracy, super firepower and ultra-accelerations/decelerations, would suddenly lose all those fantastic abilities against a fixed gun with a low ROF, firing bolts which themselves didn't travel fast enough to hit a ship that would be moving faster than a beached whale. :rolleyes:
And the fact that Vader got down there wouldn't be of importance? He just did it for the kicks? Looking for brawling maybe?
This doesn't actually have anything to do with what you're responding to, so I'll just tell you to refer above.
Oh yes it does, and that's rather easy to understand why, by the way. So I will tell you to refer above, for I have made the point even clearer about Vader's involvement and the stupidity of not assisting him.
Also, that transport was of importance because it was huge, and much easier to capture on the ground, with all fighters pinned down, than in space.
And, as I've said who knows how many times, until some undetermined amount of time beforehand, it was safely behind a shield and under the protection of a gun capable of knocking ships out of the sky.
And as I have already said several times, no, because at this point the shield was down.
But never mind!

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by 2046 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:14 pm

I glanced at the thread.

"Tellarites do not argue for a reason . . . they simply argue."

Leo1's arguments are not logical and not sane. He fails to address every point of consequence, instead seeking any excuse, however implausible, to handwave away the clear evidence of low firepower. Frankly, Jack Fetch defeated Leo1 in advance, winning the thread with his opening post. If a tripwire was sufficient, then Star Wars firepower was clearly not capable of producing sufficient overpressure to blast legs out of position, blow holes in the ice, or even "tip the cow".

Leo1's desperate arguments to the contrary, in my opinion, prove him to be merely a pro-Wars troll. It would've required more restraint than I can muster not to have simply started making fun of how ridiculous he was being.

In any case, the banning was not a bad thing, because it did stop you from continuing to waste time with him. He is a buffoon and even by his second or third post on page 1 had proven himself as such with his wild facts-be-damned approach.

But, given that he is socializing with others who would view such absurd rationalizations as high art and tactical genius, he probably doesn't realize how silly he looks. Pro-Wars trolls have historically had the support of moderators at Spacebattles, after all, so poor behavior such as his is encouraged strongly.

The action taken against you (and the fact that Leo was let off without so much as a mention) is completely unsurprising, though I must say the brazen stupidity in the reasons given is remarkable. The reality is that you were making little Leo look foolish, and he required breathing space which Facehugger was more than happy to provide. (I'm reminded of HBMC.)

In any case, that's a great example for future use.

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:09 am

I'm not sure who whined, or if it's just CPL looking for a poor excuse to let his mod powers speak. I remember a few years ago, before the titan ICS thread, in a former talk about ICS numbers and other things, that he openly said that he let me talk because I amused him, otherwise he would have banned me since ages. Never mind that the arguments I was making back then were quite the same that hit home during the super ICS thread.

So I'm not surprised of his most bizarre grinding against me.

I see that l33telboi and Sean21 have addressed Leo1's "arguments" just as well, and Leo1 has been caught in a typical denial, an embarrassingly autofeeding web of contradictory claims and semantic whoring, to a point that it really is laughable, perfectly summed up by l33telboi here. *sigh*
Other people show that they understand Leo1's absurd self shooting claims more than he does.

I can't even understand how in the late page 3, Leo1 then argues that the Rebels in the trench and the guns actually DID pose a threat, and yet the Imperials not use any superior firepower than seen.
Maybe someone should remind Leo1 that as I don't see the Empire being more meticulous than the US army, when the US troops have an issue with even just one sniper, they don't hesitate to call in artillery or an A-10.
Something does not click right in Leo1's brain, especially since he seems to think that the random grunt in the trench is just as good as a catch as a high ranking officer inside Echo Base, as far as acquisition of top secret rebel data is concerned. Perhaps that would explain why Bin Laden has never been caught!

And here, we have Vespa again having issues to get it right.
Anyone will understand that when Imperial troops had been reported infiltrating the base, it was well after Veers blew up the main generator.
How this is supposed to relate to the whole part of the assault until Veers shoots the generator is a mystery, but apparently LV seems to have a different version of the movie I guess.

I'm sure that anyone sane would understand that snowtroopers were deployed very close to the base, marching out from AT-ATs and covered by these machines at AT-STs. That is, at a time when the fleeing few Rebels and the trenches were not a problem anymore, if they ever were!

I also see that neither Vympel/Leo1 nor Vespa ever bothered to consider my suggestion, that some of the bolts fired by the AT-ATs had flown right into the open South entrance and stroke the back wall, not too far from CC.

Oh but wait, CPL made his fancy dance again.

You can dig his impartiality, as he did ban Leo1 once in the past. Wow, that must have hurt.
We can perfectly understand the core of the issue here:
Nah, I've already banned Leo once for flaming. Gave him and l33telboi a week, as I recall. And once because he asked, but that doesn't count. I like Leo, but I've got no problem banning him when I see him as in the wrong. :)

In this case, though, I'm having a hard time seeing how Leo is in the wrong here.

If anyone wants to try and show me how he's violating board rules, you have until I get back from checking out the modcp. :)

Edit: Guys! I have great news! I can, in fact, ban people for two/three weeks instead of a month! This pleases me. :)
"In this case, though, I'm having a hard time seeing how Leo is in the wrong here."

Indeed.

And here we go, there shall be your punishment for making sound arguments and pointing out the fallacies of your opponents:
Now let's see...

Sean21, have two weeks for flaming in light of your prior bans for that offense. By the closest thing we have to an official ban policy, you'd probably get a month, but since you're a longstanding member and because heated debates can get frustrating, I'll cut you slack.

L33telboi, your arguments in this thread are possibly the worst I've seen from you. I am shocked and appalled. :(

I mean, really now. Leo provides a quote from the ITW which directly states "Veers was trying to capture the rebels", but then you try to redefine that to "Veers was trying to capture some rebels, namely, the ones that I say so in order that my argument can still work." It's one thing to do that when the quote is vague. It's quite another when it's clear cut.

Take two weeks off.

Weyoun, have an infraction for spam.

Xelkor, your heart is in the right place, but please don't try to do my job. No infractions or the like given, just a friendly request. :)
Geez. This is just gold served on a plate.

Sean21, get two weeks off (instead of a month) for pointing out the obvious, about Leo1 and LV's rabid fanboyism.

l33telboi, take two weeks off for ever daring disputing the sacred words of the ITW by applying critical thinking, along the charges of dispute of established common sense when it comes to Star Wars tactics, denial of reality of the One True Dogma, and use of appaling, saddening and shocking arguments which threaten and lower the quality of the debate.

Weyoun, have an infraction for pointing out the obvious about CPL's discriminate modding.

Xelkor, there's already a Sheriff in town. It's your first and last time you ask debaters for a more civilized tone. Any further attempt that could be interpreted as a distant usurpation of modding authority shall be sanctioned accordingly, unfortunately. This is a friendly warning, of course.

Enosh, consider yourself lucky for espousing l33telboi's, Sean21's and my arguments while flying under the radar and not being subjected to the wrath of Mr. Trigger Happy.

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by Enosh » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:46 am

I am just a small fish and not important^^
it was probably beacose I only contributed some 3 post to this whole thing and of those one was ignored by Leo, so probably not worth baning me over this

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by ILikeDeathNote » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:21 am

This "Cpl_Facehugger" impresses me neither as a forum denizen or a moderator. It strikes me as one more reason to not bother to register there.

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by 2046 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:45 am

Wow. Just wow.

Well, congrats to Facehugger for demonstrating "dialling down", in this case referring to the degree of difficulty for Leo1 in that thread. I believe he has now banned all of Leo's opponents, yes? What, indeed, is the sound of one hand fapping?

I'd say I was "shocked and appalled", but the phrase was just so abused by Facehugger as to render it virtually meaningless.

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by Enosh » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:24 am

oh Oragahn I have a message for you:
"And here, we have Vespa again having issues to get it right.
Anyone will understand that when Imperial troops had been reported infiltrating the base, it was well after Veers blew up the main generator."

If you could (since you posted there as well), please point out to him he made a rather glaring error and should check the youtube link in my post he takes such exception to. More specifically, 3:56 and then 5:20-25.

Thank you.
by Lord Vespasian

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:28 pm

Enosh wrote:oh Oragahn I have a message for you:
"And here, we have Vespa again having issues to get it right.
Anyone will understand that when Imperial troops had been reported infiltrating the base, it was well after Veers blew up the main generator."

If you could (since you posted there as well), please point out to him he made a rather glaring error and should check the youtube link in my post he takes such exception to. More specifically, 3:56 and then 5:20-25.

Thank you.
by Lord Vespasian
I see. An error. Some troops had already entered the base, as the message came before the destruction of the main generator.
However, don't rejoice too fast LV. I shall remember never to make a single mistake since it would solely become the point of focus of any counter argument, never mind the validity of the other points. This error of mine certainly does not undermine the point about the advance of Veer's AT-ATs and their behaviour regarding fleeing Rebel grunts.
That, I'm afraid, has not changed in the slightest.
It is rather obvious that whatever the troops that "entered the base", they had nothing to do with those aboard Veer's walkers.
At no point you see a single snowtrooper chasing the Rebels Veer's men were shooting at.
Rather logically, the snowtroopers would be anywhere between the AT-ATs and the Rebels, many who had barely started moving out of the trenches.
At no point do we see a single Imperial trooper around Veer's AT-ATs, still a good distance from the base and still having to cross over several trenches and destroyed gun positions. Nor do we see an AT-AT deploying troops either. There is no indication that they ever stopped to deploy them, and considering their lumbering mass, you'd expect any complete troop deployment to take at least two minutes or more.

Whoever entered the base had nothing to do with Veer's battle group.
We can safely suppose that it's another assault group which goal was not the main generator, and focused on the South entrance.

Also, we may lift an eyebrow at the idea that CC is, once again, shaken like there's no tomorrow, yet Imperial troops have entered the base.
Would the Imperials still be shooting at Echo Base and trying to kill people despite having their men inside?
Well, that could be a problem of communication between squads, that could be excused.

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:58 pm

2046 wrote:Wow. Just wow.

Well, congrats to Facehugger for demonstrating "dialling down", in this case referring to the degree of difficulty for Leo1 in that thread. I believe he has now banned all of Leo's opponents, yes? What, indeed, is the sound of one hand fapping?

I'd say I was "shocked and appalled", but the phrase was just so abused by Facehugger as to render it virtually meaningless.
Banning/warning every single one of someone's opponents would be a pretty clear sign of bias. I think it shouldn't be too hard to build a good case against Cpl. Facehugger as a biased moderator; is there any course of appeal to higher moderators or administrators?

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by ILikeDeathNote » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:40 pm

At this point, perhaps all of Spacebattles needs to learn some of the best advice I've ever heard in regards to the great verses debate question:

it's just a goddamned movie

This is why I don't bother to participate much.

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:47 pm

ILikeDeathNote wrote:At this point, perhaps all of Spacebattles needs to learn some of the best advice I've ever heard in regards to the great verses debate question:

it's just a goddamned movie

This is why I don't bother to participate much.
Well that's the problem. You never know how far one has to push the detail of an argument to make his case not clear, but strong. It also depends where the debate takes place.

Personally, I don't even recall when I made the jump from 'wtf they zoom on decades old VFX and count frames and pixels and shit' and the day I started doing that nonsense. :D

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by Roondar » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:24 pm

Well, of course the SW groundforces use walking terrors with kiloton/megaton level guns. Who could ever doubt that?

I mean, the uses of such incredibly lethal 'support fire' are immediately obvious. Finally a way to not only destroy the enemy but also yourself or at the least your home in the process!

</insane>

Has it ever occured to anyone here the reason that SF groundforces almost never* have powers like that is because it would not be in anyone's advantage to actually use such levels of firepower while inside an atmosphere during anything apart from orbital bombardment?

*) the few that do are either so rediculously advanced or so rediculous, period that they hardly count ;)

Not in the attackers advantage (last I checked 99% of military actions are not just about turning stuff into unsalvagable rubble - or blowing up stuff with enough force to kill your own troops while you're at it).

And certainly not in the defenders best interest (I'm just guessing here, but I feel most of the people defending a place would prefer to keep it intact as much as possible, not destroy it outright).

--

BTW, I see no one has actually tried to explain why the rebels weapons (snowspeeders etc) didn't do what the Imperial guns should have done: create craters, huge explosions, etc. Sure, they where using poor equipment compared to the stuff the empire had, but it surely wasn't ten or so orders of magnitude less powerful. Or why no groundbattle in SW history actually showed ever anything even approaching a relatively outdated US nuke.

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by l33telboi » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:19 pm

Roondar wrote:Has it ever occured to anyone here the reason that SF groundforces almost never* have powers like that is because it would not be in anyone's advantage to actually use such levels of firepower while inside an atmosphere during anything apart from orbital bombardment?
I'd argue that anyone that has such weaponry quickly stop using ground forces in the same way we do today. Not that they'd just dial down the yields on every single warmachine they produce. Would you find infantry that's not in completly sealed power-armor on a field where these sorts of weapons are used? Of course not. Would you even find power-armored infantry on such battlefields? I doubt it. Would you find slow-moving tank-sized vehicles that can be destroyed by megajoule level weaponry on a battlefield where kilo/megaton scale weaponry are commonly used? No. Why? Because you don't spend a great deal of money on constructing something the enemy can take out in droves just with a single lazy shot in the general area of where they are. That'd be a waste of money.

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Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by 2046 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:19 am

ILikeDeathNote wrote:At this point, perhaps all of Spacebattles needs to learn some of the best advice I've ever heard in regards to the great verses debate question:

it's just a goddamned movie
Of course.

But that's the crux of the whole issue, for if they were to honestly say "This is a web discussion board for the greater glorification of the Galactic Empire over all other franchises, foreign and domestic! All other opinions are BANNED, and if you attempt to spout these other opinions you will be BANNED, and everyone who looks like you will be BANNED", it wouldn't be nearly so obnoxious. I mean it would be retarded, but still.

Instead, they insult real truth-seekers by feigning neutrality or adherence to logic in their moderation when the reality is simply jaw-droppingly obvious bias. It's annoying enough when it's a member like Leo who's allowed to keep talking, but when you get someone like Facehugger or HBMC . . . moderators who are supposed to enforce a bunch of high-sounding regulations that clearly do not say "DA EMPIRE RULEZ!!!" . . . there's just something almost instinctively infuriating about that.

And yes, it's about TV shows and films. It is not the topic that infuriates, but the behavior of some involved with the topic.

For some, dishonesty is maddening at all times. For others, it is a modus operandi. Those two groups will never have peace, no matter the topic.

Roondar
Jedi Knight
Posts: 462
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:03 pm

Re: *Sigh* Another case of biased moderation when SW is involved

Post by Roondar » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:26 am

l33telboi wrote:
Roondar wrote:Has it ever occured to anyone here the reason that SF groundforces almost never* have powers like that is because it would not be in anyone's advantage to actually use such levels of firepower while inside an atmosphere during anything apart from orbital bombardment?
I'd argue that anyone that has such weaponry quickly stop using ground forces in the same way we do today. Not that they'd just dial down the yields on every single warmachine they produce. Would you find infantry that's not in completly sealed power-armor on a field where these sorts of weapons are used? Of course not. Would you even find power-armored infantry on such battlefields? I doubt it. Would you find slow-moving tank-sized vehicles that can be destroyed by megajoule level weaponry on a battlefield where kilo/megaton scale weaponry are commonly used? No. Why? Because you don't spend a great deal of money on constructing something the enemy can take out in droves just with a single lazy shot in the general area of where they are. That'd be a waste of money.
You mean, you'd end up with armed forces more like what you see in Star Trek: no (or very little) armoured vehicles, force projection* mostly based on space superiority and having ground stuff at all because it's a neccesity, not because it's the general way of doing things.

The theory probably being that if you lose space superiority you've already lost the war by virtue of the orbital-bombardment problem and if you gain/keep space superiority you've won the war by the same token.

Edit: this does not mean that the Federation et all have groundstuff capable of unleashing kilotons/megatons per shot - it means they moved away from the ground-based arms race because they probably could make weapons like that and noticed the same problem I did ;)

*) I hope that's the right term, English is not my native language after all ;)

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