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SWTC and Saxton's distance from versus debates 
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Admiral
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Hosts this page on his website.
Make your own opinion.


Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:52 pm
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Jedi Master

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That's nothing new.
Why link it?


Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:37 pm
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Starship Captain
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For those, like me, who'd not noticed it before. Thanks!


Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:58 pm
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Thanks for the posting, Mr. Oragahn. That is indeed a great find, and what is really interesting is Brian Young's email exchange down at the bottom under the references. It looks almost like it could have come from out of Wayne Poe's little Versus cabal based on Brian Young's reference to "Trekkie defence" and other similar statements. Also interesting is that once again they used lesser canon materials to try and handwave away hgher canon novelization and movie references. Offical over highest canon just like with the Slave I firepower calculations. Note the lack of reference to Dodonna's complete ANH novelization statements which indicate that he is not speaking about the superlaser on the Death Star, but the anti-captial ship and anti-starfighter turbolaser battery emplacements.
-Mike


Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:27 am
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Admiral
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For the record, SWTC has a FAQ that addresses the position of the site regarding Trek or any other universe:

Quote:
1.3.1 How does this site relate to Star Trek?
    It doesn't relate to Star Trek. It has nothing to do with the SW vs ST online debate nor any debate like it. Although those debates are useful insofar as they stimulate people to think about how the STAR WARS universe works, this site strictly excludes direct discussion of other fictional universes.


All too logical, since it's a website dedicated to Star Wars. This, however, does not address Saxton's possible interest in the vs debate, only the purpose of this website.

We can go to the shields page, wherein Saxton quotes B²:

Quote:
Robert Brown says:

keep in mind the imp officers are heard to say (on the avenger) "shields up" etc.

I wonder if full shielding is always maintained ANYHOW! after all, we know that on smaller craft (falcon fighters etc) the shields get "angled" and "set" for different levels of protection in different areas (weg & the LA pc-games both have representations of this)

this adds to my earlier speculations re: different TYPES of shielding. surely *some* type of shielding must always be present (cf. treks famous "navigational shields")

NB: tho, that SW ships seem to be able to FIRE through their shields, we know NOTHING of "holes" (a la trek) in shields around weapons ports and engine exhausts.


Hosting the sayings of people who would make comparisons with Trek. Now this is mere evocation, but I find it funny that a website supposedly completely detached from the SWvsST scene happens to quote people who cite Trek as a reference, to explain some aspects of Star Wars. It's even more interesting since Saxton usually only cites the original authors of some thoughts in the "credits" section of his page. One can only wonder how much "Wars" and "Trek" there were in the messages he borrowed ideas from but did not directly copy/paste on his website.

But you're going to love the following one:

From Transport and communications.

Quote:
Transport and communications.
Hyperdrive: "They could be on the other side of the galaxy by now." "Kid I've been from one side of this galaxy to the other." "This will be a day long remembered." Travel times. Compare with 'Trek warpdrive - seventy years to traverse galaxy. Maintaining a cohesive galactic government. Regional variations in economic, other conditions. Accentuation of inhomogeneities? Damping of inhomogenieties?


Why should we assume any reader of SWTC should know anything about Trek, or even have a passing interest in anything remotely related to Star Trek's universe as much as to make sense of that comparison?

More squarely, the question would be what the F-- hell has Trek to do with any of this?
Why should we have to compare this with Trek pray tell?

I guess it was just too hard refraining from glorifying Star Wars at the expense of another universe... which happens to be Star Trek.
On a website that is supposed to be completely detached of that kind of stuff!
This happens to be a trademark of SWvsST debates.

Let's make things clear here. He's not quoting anyone here. It's his opinion, his analysis and his own methodology.
And it's nothing new, by the way:

Quote:
Original content is © copyright Dr Curtis Saxton 1996.
Last updated August 2, 1996.

This page was constructed and is maintained by Curtis Saxton.
This page is neither affiliated with nor endorsed by Lucasfilm Ltd.
Images included in or linked from this page are copyright Lucasfilm Ltd. and are used here under Fair Useage terms of copyright law.
This site is kindly hosted by TheForce.net.


Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:52 pm
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Starship Captain
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In fairness, I'm pretty sure all of these discussed pages are unfinished.

But then, that's just as damning, since it implies that his starting point seems to frequently be "What's Trek got, and how can I wank Star Wars into better?" However, the unfinished nature of the pages at least make the low page quality less appalling.


Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:06 pm
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I saw your website update for the Warsie Support Group section and it dawns on me that you ought to take a little time to archive some of those unfinished Saxton pages. It won't be too long before they find out that we've seen them, and Saxton perhaps pulls them from view once this gets back to him.
-Mike


Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:38 am
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Starship Captain
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Mike DiCenso wrote:
I saw your website update for the Warsie Support Group section and it dawns on me that you ought to take a little time to archive some of those unfinished Saxton pages. It won't be too long before they find out that we've seen them, and Saxton perhaps pulls them from view once this gets back to him.
-Mike


Fear not . . . I don't always save everything, but I've got most of the interesting stuff. :)


Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:00 pm
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Admiral
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Mike DiCenso wrote:
I saw your website update for the Warsie Support Group section and it dawns on me that you ought to take a little time to archive some of those unfinished Saxton pages. It won't be too long before they find out that we've seen them, and Saxton perhaps pulls them from view once this gets back to him.
-Mike


I do not think he'd care much. Even if he were to be informed of this "discovery", I think he''ll let the pages as they are, and might distantly count on some SDNer (or relative) to take care of the defense, if they still care.
He would likely adopt the stance of a politician not being able to do anything to mask the reality that he and many others are so aware of, so he's going to stand on his horses and keep going, counting on people's lack of curiosity or their ignorance to completely dodge the issue.

Nevertheless, his methodology is a typical "versus" cheap shot at its finest.
You'll come with plenty of analogies on your own. Just try it with more battle related terms such as firepower, fire range, shields or so on.
If you ever were in the need of a proof in case someone would defend his work against accusations of bias, you'd know where to point at, at least.

Perhaps the most concrete effect of this would be the highlighting of Saxton's severe interest in making his official and published works fit personal motives which had very little to do with providing an accurate, consistent and honest analysis of the material at hand.
When you're paying, or paid, to maintain a canon policy and a coherency over a whole range of products, that affects their quality as fictions, and defines how fans accept or reject the merchandising on those criteria, you would certainly be very concerned and displeased that people you trusted for their assumed competence, failed you by design.

I for one know that if I were the owner of a fictional universe and its series of expanded material, if only from a question of maintaining a coherency, I'd be pissed off.
Lucas may not care at all, it's EU after all, but I'm wondering what Chee thinks of this.

I even wonder how many current EU authors even bother cramming ICS/ITW stuff into their stories.


Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:54 am
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2046 wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:
I saw your website update for the Warsie Support Group section and it dawns on me that you ought to take a little time to archive some of those unfinished Saxton pages. It won't be too long before they find out that we've seen them, and Saxton perhaps pulls them from view once this gets back to him.
-Mike


Fear not . . . I don't always save everything, but I've got most of the interesting stuff. :)


Cool. That way when they try to pull a Wayne Poe style denial of their little support groups they have to face the evidence. ;-)
-Mike


Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:44 am
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Mr. Oragahn wrote:
I even wonder how many current EU authors even bother cramming ICS/ITW stuff into their stories.


I've not followed the Legacy EU material, but from what I've gathered, there isn't all that much ICS being disseminated amongst the more modern EU material. The backlash as a result of the Talifan attacks on Karen Traviss which appears to be led by Sarli and Hidalgo among others who seem to have lead this counter-strike against the Saxtonite/Rabid Warsies/Talifans by doing everything possible to minimize SW power levels.
-Mike


Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:53 am
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Admiral
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Oi. Lookie.
Shields page.
Diffusion: Transports and Communications page.


Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:28 pm
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Jedi Knight

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All that comes up is " the page cannot be found" and a pic of a pit droid.


Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:36 pm
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Same here, that's all I get.
-Mike


Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:50 pm
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Admiral
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These are the two pages I linked to in this post.


Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:03 pm
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