SDN - The Great Warsie Bread Party

[Tyralak]

If anyone didn't believe SDN was an over moderated groupthink, check out this thread. Probably the last one I'll post in there.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 2&t=131102

It's 11 pages long, but check out the nasty turn at the end. As much as they protest, SDNs true colors were exposed.

[The Corporal]

Ah yes, that. In which we learn that the folks who still post at ASVS want SDN to be more like ASVS. Honestly if what we saw in that thread was what ASVS was like then it's no loss that folks have moved on. There is already more than enough libertarian ideas and armchair psychology on the net, thank you very much.

[Tyralak]

Ah yes, that. In which we learn that the folks who still post at ASVS want SDN to be more like ASVS. Honestly if what we saw in that thread was what ASVS was like then it's no loss that folks have moved on. There is already more than enough libertarian ideas and armchair psychology on the net, thank you very much.

ASVS was a robust debating environment. Very unlike SDN. Yes, as cmndrwilkins said, "It was hugely violent, language-wise" However, without ASVS, SDN would never have existed. It had a very unique culture. I was there when Wong left to form SDN, he did it precisely to control the debate. Something he couldn't do at ASVS.

[PunkMaister]

SDN is nothing but a cesspool 'nuff said...

[The Corporal]

ASVS was a robust debating environment. Very unlike SDN. Yes, as cmndrwilkins said, "It was hugely violent, language-wise" However, without ASVS, SDN would never have existed. It had a very unique culture. I was there when Wong left to form SDN, he did it precisely to control the debate. Something he couldn't do at ASVS.

And what, pray tell does the state of things in 2003 have to do with them now?

SDN is nothing but a cesspool 'nuff said...

Yes, we get it. You don't like SDN.

[Tyralak]

ASVS was a robust debating environment. Very unlike SDN. Yes, as cmndrwilkins said, "It was hugely violent, language-wise" However, without ASVS, SDN would never have existed. It had a very unique culture. I was there when Wong left to form SDN, he did it precisely to control the debate. Something he couldn't do at ASVS.

And what, pray tell does the state of things in 2003 have to do with them now?

Not sure what you're asking. Wong's doing the same stuff he always has, and his band of fluffers still shape the debate by over moderation, intimidation, and banning members. Their "Senate" is ridiculous pompery and self aggrandizement as well. If all you've known is SDN, then it's hard to explain where us ASVSers are coming from.

[The Corporal]

Not sure what you're asking. Wong's doing the same stuff he always has, and his band of fluffers still shape the debate by over moderation, intimidation, and banning members. Their "Senate" is ridiculous pompery and self aggrandizement as well. If all you've known is SDN, then it's hard to explain where us ASVSers are coming from.

Considering it's Mike's money that runs the board, he can do whatever the heck he wants. Why this is an issue with so many people is beyond me, would you go into someones house and then complain that he wants you to take your shoes off?

[Tyralak]

Not sure what you're asking. Wong's doing the same stuff he always has, and his band of fluffers still shape the debate by over moderation, intimidation, and banning members. Their "Senate" is ridiculous pompery and self aggrandizement as well. If all you've known is SDN, then it's hard to explain where us ASVSers are coming from.

Considering it's Mike's money that runs the board, he can do whatever the heck he wants. Why this is an issue with so many people is beyond me, would you go into someones house and then complain that he wants you to take your shoes off?

Nobody has said anything to the contrary. However, I don't go there anymore precisely for the reasons I stated. And it was 2002, not 03. The place raises my blood pressure. You try to defend yourself and your ideas too vigorously and you get banned or your threads locked. There was no such thing at ASVS. You either made your case well, or you were mocked and flamed to a crisp. No hiding behind mods. None of these clowns have taken me up on my offer to meet me at ASVS for a proper debate. Not that moron Stark or his buddy Goat Rider. The place is great if you're a leftist Warsie. A right-wing Libertarian Trekkie had better tread lightly. This board is worlds better than SDN as far as tone and tolerance goes.

[PunkMaister]

Not sure what you're asking. Wong's doing the same stuff he always has, and his band of fluffers still shape the debate by over moderation, intimidation, and banning members. Their "Senate" is ridiculous pompery and self aggrandizement as well. If all you've known is SDN, then it's hard to explain where us ASVSers are coming from.

Considering it's Mike's money that runs the board, he can do whatever the heck he wants. Why this is an issue with so many people is beyond me, would you go into someones house and then complain that he wants you to take your shoes off?

Nobody has said anything to the contrary. However, I don't go there anymore precisely for the reasons I stated. And it was 2002, not 03. The place raises my blood pressure. You try to defend yourself and your ideas too vigorously and you get banned or your threads locked. There was no such thing at ASVS. You either made your case well, or you were mocked and flamed to a crisp. No hiding behind mods. None of these clowns have taken me up on my offer to meet me at ASVS for a proper debate. Not that moron Stark or his buddy Goat Rider. The place is great if you're a leftist Warsie. A right-wing Libertarian Trekkie had better tread lightly. This board is worlds better than SDN as far as tone and tolerance goes.

OK stop right there because I happen to love Star Wars nearly as much as I love Stargate and I'm a conservative right wing libertarian. Not everybody that likes SW is like that so please reffer to them for what they are SDNetters or followers of the cult of Wong whichever comes first...

[Tyralak]

Considering it's Mike's money that runs the board, he can do whatever the heck he wants. Why this is an issue with so many people is beyond me, would you go into someones house and then complain that he wants you to take your shoes off?

Nobody has said anything to the contrary. However, I don't go there anymore precisely for the reasons I stated. And it was 2002, not 03. The place raises my blood pressure. You try to defend yourself and your ideas too vigorously and you get banned or your threads locked. There was no such thing at ASVS. You either made your case well, or you were mocked and flamed to a crisp. No hiding behind mods. None of these clowns have taken me up on my offer to meet me at ASVS for a proper debate. Not that moron Stark or his buddy Goat Rider. The place is great if you're a leftist Warsie. A right-wing Libertarian Trekkie had better tread lightly. This board is worlds better than SDN as far as tone and tolerance goes.

OK stop right there because I happen to love Star Wars nearly as much as I love Stargate and I'm a conservative right wing libertarian. Not everybody that likes SW is like that so please reffer to them for what they are SDNetters or followers of the cult of Wong whichever comes first...

I think you're taking what I said wrong. I was talking about that particular combination. I wasn't implying that all Wars fans were leftists. I was pointing out a major component and bias of SDN.

[Who is like God arbour]

Not sure what you're asking. Wong's doing the same stuff he always has, and his band of fluffers still shape the debate by over moderation, intimidation, and banning members. Their "Senate" is ridiculous pompery and self aggrandizement as well. If all you've known is SDN, then it's hard to explain where us ASVSers are coming from.

Considering it's Mike's money that runs the board, he can do whatever the heck he wants. Why this is an issue with so many people is beyond me, would you go into someones house and then complain that he wants you to take your shoes off?

I think, it has something to do with honesty.

Fora are usually meant to allow a free exchange of opinions.

1. 1. the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business
   2. a public meeting place for open discussion
   3. a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas
2. • a judicial body or assembly : court
3. 1. a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion
   2. a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities

1. • A public meeting or assembly for open discussion.
2. • A public facility to meet for open discussion.
3. • A place of assembly for the people in ancient Greece.

That's what users are expecting. And they are disappointed, if they don't find it.

And that's the difference to your example.

Everybody expects, that the host has the sanctity of the home and will use it to a certain degree.

And to demand to take off your shoes, if you enter the house of someone other is not unreasonable.

And everybody knows, that the owner of such a board has the right to exercise property rights.

It is expected, that these rights are used to a certain degree to moderate the fora and discussions and to keep order and the abidance of laws.

But it is unexpected and unreasonable, that these rights are used in a way, that is contradictory to the essential purpose of the fora.

And that's the complaint of most, who are disagreeing with SDN's policy.

[The Corporal]

Look the bottom line is that anyone can see even before they join what the board is like. To join up and then complain about its culture or the way it does things is ridiculous. If one prefers another way then your not being forced to post there.

[The Corporal]

I think, it has something to do with honesty.

Fora are usually meant to allow a free exchange of opinions.

And? Debate is encouraged and allowed on SDN, within the framework of its guidelines. It is expected that you be able to back up your opinions with facts. The thought that people have some intrinsic right to absolute free expression on a forum just because it is the internet is ridiculous.

That's what users are expecting. And they are disappointed, if they don't find it.

And that's the difference to your example.

Everybody expects, that the host has the sanctity of the home and will use it to a certain degree.

And to demand to take off your shoes, if you enter the house of someone other is not unreasonable.

And everybody knows, that the owner of such a board has the right to exercise property rights.

It is expected, that these rights are used to a certain degree to moderate the fora and discussions and to keep order and the abidance of laws.

But it is unexpected and unreasonable, that these rights are used in a way, that is contradictory to the essential purpose of the fora.

And that's the complaint of most, who are disagreeing with SDN's policy.

Then they are free not to join and post there. Just as people who disagree with JMSpocks policy on foul language and respect are free not to post here.

[l33telboi]

Well, it's not particularly surprising, you were suggesting that people start posting on ASVS again. Wong has often enough showed that he doesn't like people talking about other sites, and when someone links to a place like SB he's rather quick to start barking at whoever did it. I guess it's what most people have said - control. A lot of the denizens on SDN seems to stay away from places where they don't have control over everything and where they know people won't immediately accept what they're saying as gospel. And when someone does say they're wrong it quickly turns into a vendetta for them. Just take a look at the wiki page where they track and point out everyone who's ever dared disagree with them (Except me, of course. I'm still pissed that I got no mention.)

Or look at the recent thread about Ender as an example. He came over to SB a few months back with a calculation he'd done on SDN. It was pointed out as flawed and then he threw a tantrum and quickly left. He went back to SDN, started inventing stuff like that people had been saying CoE didn't apply, even though that had been specifically pointed out to apply by several people. Apparently he was so bitter about the incident, that he even now, months later, sniped about it from afar (directed at Oragahn this time) and just used that post of his to start venting on SB in general.

They've grown so proud of themselves that they can’t take it when people challenge their opinions anymore.

[Jedi Master Spock]

If anyone didn't believe SDN was an over moderated groupthink, check out this thread. Probably the last one I'll post in there.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 2&t=131102

Given that thread is unreadable by anyone without SDN membership, you might want to summarize what you're talking about.

It's 11 pages long, but check out the nasty turn at the end. As much as they protest, SDNs true colors were exposed.

What's a Bread Party, you may ask?

I can't help but thinking there's some intention for causing insult or provoking a reaction by choosing this metaphor to describe a discussion thread. I would much prefer discussion was constructive.