A bit of a morbid question, perhaps - details inside

Did a related website in the community go down? Come back up? Relocate to a new address? Install pop-up advertisements?

This forum is for discussion of these sorts of issues.
ILikeDeathNote
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A bit of a morbid question, perhaps - details inside

Post by ILikeDeathNote » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:44 am

How long until these sites die? What are their total lifespans? SDN, SB.com, even this one?

Some personal assessments:

- First of all, every website will die eventually. As they say on the image boards, NO EXCEPTIONS! Yes, that even goes for said image boards.

- SDN: On the plus side, they have a tightly knit community dedicated to keeping it alive. On the minus side, they're a very closed community, both by the nature of the members and the fact that it now institutes the "donation" policy due to troll attack, presumably by said image board. So SDN will probably be around for a while, but it's a slow death, until enough members either just leave or even die off that the remainder just decide to hold informal chats, or themselves die off. But given how young these members are (even Wong), this is still a long while away.

- SB.com: A much more open site, just from what I've seen, so entry isn't as high a barrier, but looking at the registration numbers on the front page, they don't seem very great. Plus, being a large community, they don't have the tight-knit closeness of SDN. Might die off within a decade.

- Now onto this site, and I'm sad to say we kinda have the worst of both worlds. We have a rather high barrier to entry just because of our anonymity, but we don't seem to be as tightly knit as SDN. So, ummm...sorry, but it doesn't look good for us.

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Post by 2046 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:02 pm

Longevity is based on both breadth and capacity for ownership changes.

I don't know SB's hosting system or cost but it is of a sufficient topical broadness to keep going indefinitely.

SDN has some breadth with the community-building stuff but little chance for ownership change if Wong gets bored given his setup.

SFJ, ST-v-SW, et al. are one-trick ponies, ST-v-SW especially. SFJ has the forum, which offers breadth but possible ownership change problems, as we saw with the saga of the Strek-v-Swars forums that someone grabbed with the promise to put back up but which never occurred.

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Post by Jedi Master Spock » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:56 pm

I've given some thought as to what to do with SFJ if I decided to give up running the place. Most likely, you'd see the databases stripped of any private data and userinfo (per privacy policy, I have no intention of sharing your private data with anyone you don't want it shared to) and then posted publicly for anyone to archive or rehost at leisure.

If there's serious interest by someone else in continuing to run the place, I might send out a message asking people to "opt-in" passing their private data to the new administration, arrange for domain name transfer if practical, et cetera. It's more trouble than simply letting the site lapse, but it's a nice courtesy to the community, and I believe in common courtesy.

ILikeDeathNote
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Post by ILikeDeathNote » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:58 pm

2046 wrote:Longevity is based on both breadth and capacity for ownership changes.

I don't know SB's hosting system or cost but it is of a sufficient topical broadness to keep going indefinitely.

SDN has some breadth with the community-building stuff but little chance for ownership change if Wong gets bored given his setup.

SFJ, ST-v-SW, et al. are one-trick ponies, ST-v-SW especially. SFJ has the forum, which offers breadth but possible ownership change problems, as we saw with the saga of the Strek-v-Swars forums that someone grabbed with the promise to put back up but which never occurred.
...I'm afraid I don't really follow a single word you wrote.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:39 pm

ILikeDeathNote wrote:
2046 wrote:Longevity is based on both breadth and capacity for ownership changes.

I don't know SB's hosting system or cost but it is of a sufficient topical broadness to keep going indefinitely.

SDN has some breadth with the community-building stuff but little chance for ownership change if Wong gets bored given his setup.

SFJ, ST-v-SW, et al. are one-trick ponies, ST-v-SW especially. SFJ has the forum, which offers breadth but possible ownership change problems, as we saw with the saga of the Strek-v-Swars forums that someone grabbed with the promise to put back up but which never occurred.
...I'm afraid I don't really follow a single word you wrote.
I'am not sure what there is not to understand? He's pointing out the flaw of most of the Versus boards is that they are usually under single person ownership; e.g. Mike Wong, or JMS. If Either Wong or JMS decided to give up running the board, then it's all over, unless someone with the appropriate resources can pick it up.

The "breadth" is how wide a number of members and admin each place has, which can possibly translate into potential owners who can pick up and run the board in the advent the original owner calls it quits.
-Mike

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Post by The Corporal » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:39 pm

ILikeDeathNote wrote: ...I'm afraid I don't really follow a single word you wrote.
Trust me, your not the onlt one with that problem. Lets see if I can help.

2046 wrote:Longevity is based on both breadth and capacity for ownership changes.
The board will laste if it has the ability to change ownership. IE: someone else is able to take it over.
I don't know SB's hosting system or cost but it is of a sufficient topical broadness to keep going indefinitely.
SB has enough diversity to keep going.
SDN has some breadth with the community-building stuff but little chance for ownership change if Wong gets bored given his setup.
If Mike decides to shut it down than it shuts down.
SFJ, ST-v-SW, et al. are one-trick ponies, ST-v-SW especially. SFJ has the forum, which offers breadth but possible ownership change problems, as we saw with the saga of the Strek-v-Swars forums that someone grabbed with the promise to put back up but which never occurred.
SFJ and Darkstar's site will only last as long as the owners are interested and pay the upkeep. Little variety in topics means there isn't a reason to keep them around beyond the VS topics.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:06 pm

The Corporal wrote: If Mike decides to shut it down than it shuts down.
Can you think of anyone who can take on the task of running SDN at a cost of thousands of USD each year, and maintaing the equipment required? It's possible a board like that can survive if there are several persons willing to split the costs and seperately host SDN elsewhere.
-Mike

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Post by The Corporal » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:12 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Can you think of anyone who can take on the task of running SDN at a cost of thousands of USD each year, and maintaing the equipment required? It's possible a board like that can survive if there are several persons willing to split the costs and seperately host SDN elsewhere.
-Mike
Not really, the majority of the members are young and not likely flush with cash. And personally I think a joint venture would just be a disaster.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:22 pm

The Corporal wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:
Can you think of anyone who can take on the task of running SDN at a cost of thousands of USD each year, and maintaing the equipment required? It's possible a board like that can survive if there are several persons willing to split the costs and seperately host SDN elsewhere.
-Mike
Not really, the majority of the members are young and not likely flush with cash. And personally I think a joint venture would just be a disaster.
Well, it doesn't take anyone from the majority, just a few from the minority. Anyway, isn't SBC owned and run by several different people?
-Mike

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Post by The Corporal » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:24 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Well, it doesn't take anyone from the majority, just a few from the minority. Anyway, isn't SBC owned and run by several different people?
-Mike
I have no idea actually, I've never looked into it. I only have five or so posts over there since 2004, so I don't visit often.

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Post by Estrecca » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:21 am

SB.com used to be run and paid by the webmaster of the Spacebattles website (the place where you can find the 3D films that were the hook that originally drew a number of geeks to the board), but for many years now it has been hosted and paid by "Kier", a member of the developing team of vBulletin software (or something like that).

After the recent server problems, I think that one of the Administrators (Reaperman?) commented that he had find a hosting solution that he could pay out of his own pocket, but I don't know the current status of the board.

ILikeDeathNote
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Post by ILikeDeathNote » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:21 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:
ILikeDeathNote wrote:
2046 wrote:Longevity is based on both breadth and capacity for ownership changes.

I don't know SB's hosting system or cost but it is of a sufficient topical broadness to keep going indefinitely.

SDN has some breadth with the community-building stuff but little chance for ownership change if Wong gets bored given his setup.

SFJ, ST-v-SW, et al. are one-trick ponies, ST-v-SW especially. SFJ has the forum, which offers breadth but possible ownership change problems, as we saw with the saga of the Strek-v-Swars forums that someone grabbed with the promise to put back up but which never occurred.
...I'm afraid I don't really follow a single word you wrote.
I'am not sure what there is not to understand? He's pointing out the flaw of most of the Versus boards is that they are usually under single person ownership; e.g. Mike Wong, or JMS. If Either Wong or JMS decided to give up running the board, then it's all over, unless someone with the appropriate resources can pick it up.
Yes, it is a flaw inherent to all of these message boards, but it's a rather minor flaw. In fact, it's such a minor flaw I don't think it's worth factoring in. Mike Wong seems like a pretty young and fit guy; going by his personal website I'd judge his age to be no more than late 40's at the very most, so I think he's gonna live for a long time. Plus, he seems pretty dedicated towards keeping the forum community alive, at the detriment of the main site.

Likewise for JMS; (assuming) young guy, the determination to keep it open. We've already went over the finances for this board and he has made it clear it simply isn't a problem, though what kind of issue finances are for SDN is unknown.
The "breadth" is how wide a number of members and admin each place has, which can possibly translate into potential owners who can pick up and run the board in the advent the original owner calls it quits.
-Mike
That is once again such a minor factor as to not be worth calculating. Transferring ownership is a complicated process because it involves in essence the transfer of real, actual funds (unless you happen to sign up for one of the cheesy free message board services, of which between SFJ, SDN and SBC, none are). Furthermore, you have to find members or administrators who actually would be interested in becoming an actual owner in a financial sense. Regular members are not likely to be interested in that responsibility unless they were very dedicated; otherwise, they would be board administrators, or at least demonstrate the type of behavior, on the forums, that would make for a good administrator. Administrators may be likely, but once again, it's dependent on how they feel. There are so many possible factors it's difficult to calculate.

And once again, it's not even worth calculating. I consider the likelihood of Wong or JMS wishing to transfer or forgo ownership very unlikely, at least for the time being.

If I am not mistaken, SBC is actually under corporate ownership under the Kier message board umbrella. This makes finances and ownership transfer almost completely moot issues regardless. SBC isn't likely to die with the owner, or die because of finances, but it may die due to lack of interest and "empty restaurant syndrome."

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Post by Airlocke_Jedi_Knight » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:25 am

This topic stings a little, as I am a member of a forum that is about to die out, simply because no one knows about it. I am a mod there and am kinda sad.

This other site has around the same amount of members and post as this one. And has been around since Sept. of 2007. It doesn't really bode well for the longevity of SFJ.

Although, SFJ has a more gravitating theme, so, you know...

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:53 am

I'm not sure I agree with that. There may be the same number of members, but SFJ has been fairly active lately over the last couple months. As long as there is a fair number of regular posters, then SFJ will survive, and we've had fewer members and less posting than now, so I'm rather optimistic.
-Mike

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Post by ILikeDeathNote » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:55 am

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:This topic stings a little, as I am a member of a forum that is about to die out, simply because no one knows about it. I am a mod there and am kinda sad.
Just out of curiosity, what message board is it?
This other site has around the same amount of members and post as this one. And has been around since Sept. of 2007. It doesn't really bode well for the longevity of SFJ.

Although, SFJ has a more gravitating theme, so, you know...
Well, JMS said that the yearly maintenance and upkeep costs are relatively low.

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