Clone Wars CGI Series

[ILikeDeathNote]

I'm surprised no one's brought this up.

The latest Clone Wars episode strongly suggests that Clonetrooper armor is completely ineffectual in protecting against an airborne pathogen attack.

Oh really? Do tell...
-Mike

Two of the Clonetroopers (one of them was Rex, I think) were experiencing symptoms. They had their helmets off, but I don't remember if that was before they were infected. However, I think all of the Clonetroopers had their helmets on during the actual pathogen outbreak. The rest of the Clonetroopers were pretty much just ignored in terms of symptoms.

Hence why I used the words "highly suggests" and not "proves"

[2046]

It's quite clear in the latest two-parter that even the helmeted clones were affected.

Basically, a mad scientist takes an instantly-deadly waterborne virus and turns it into a more procrastinatively-deadly airborne virus that visibly spreads like the fast-moving Creeping Horak, giving the entire lab complex into which it is released a really pretty blue glowing volumetric fog.

Escaping the Horak's reach, Ashoka and four clones enter what is supposed to be a sealed lab. However, as the door closes a tuft of blue fog is caught, like a finger slammed in a door. The group awaits rescue from Skywalker with whom they are in contact.

As soon as a clone identifies that some of the virus entered the room, the helmeted clone leader fatalistically notes to Ashoka that they "may be dead men, but" could still stop the droids running around. Ashoka responds that they are not dead yet, and that Skywalker will find a cure. (Not get them out of the room . . . cure them.) Then Padme and Ashoka talk, at which point Padme asks if they are contaminated. Ashoka says yes.

Only then do we see that, across the room, two clones have their helmets off and are coughing. (Presumably they took their helmets off to make the coughing easier.)

When next we see Ashoka, Padme and Jar-Jar (in special environmental suits) enter their sealed lab. Even the clones who were previously helmeted now have their helmets off.

It is also worth noting that there was a clone in the "safety chamber" Padme and Jar-Jar were in when the virus was released. Instead of helping the Senator and Representative to the Galactic Senate through the droid-riddled lab complex, the clone is apparently left behind . . . we never see him leave with them nor is he with them when we see them in the lab complex hallways.

While I'm sure the SDN excuse that only some retarded clones who had their helmets off in a virus-laden area got sick will be their popular myth, the truth is that they all did.

Incidentally, there was also a rather intriguing incident wherein we see Ashoka simply reach through the shield of a droideka before activating her lightsaber (inside the shield) to destroy the droideka.

We've seen that falling rocks can crush droidekas before, but we've never seen a girl reach through their shields. It'll be worth watching to see more such examples, because if all you have to do is put your gun through a droideka shield to shoot it, the fact that Jedi usually retreat before droidekas becomes just that bit more odd.

[l33telboi]

The style of the show which takes severe liberties at times, either with people's moves or else

Hardly important. It's stylized CGI. I don't see why this would impact anything on the versus debate.

and the gross physics errors, make this material rather dubious to use for nitpicky analysis like it's applied to the movies.

Because Star Wars movies had no physics errors? The problem here isn't that it's CGI. The problem is that it's Star Wars. Fantasy in space. It never made sense, and never will (unless you look to authors other then George Lucas and massive re-design the franchise).

[ILikeDeathNote]

Basically, a mad scientist takes an instantly-deadly waterborne virus and turns it into a more procrastinatively-deadly airborne virus that visibly spreads like the fast-moving Creeping Horak, giving the entire lab complex into which it is released a really pretty blue glowing volumetric fog.

It should be noted that the waterborne virus was thought to have been eradicated (presumably by a Galactic Republic medical campaign) many years ago. Thus, there would be some cure on record, and indeed Naboo officers were able to find a cure rather easily by searching through Republic records.

What does not make sense is that there are no readily made antidotes or vaccines available, and that an antidote would need to be made from scratch using a root not only found on just one planet, but that planet had been subsequently abandoned by the Republic and later conquered by the Separatists, who in turn abandoned the planet but not before implementing a half-scorched earth policy which reduced said planet's society into a galactic backwater while implementing a laser blockade system (whew, that was a mouthful).

Did I mention that the plant in question is basically a gigantic, semi-sentient Venus Fly Trap?

On a storytelling note, as cliched as it was, it still could have been good for dramatic tension, but man, did Anakin and Obi-Wan ever take their time. And all the while I thought Anakin had near-suicidal concern for Padme's well-being. My mistake.

Escaping the Horak's reach, Ashoka and four clones enter what is supposed to be a sealed lab. However, as the door closes a tuft of blue fog is caught, like a finger slammed in a door.

As soon as a clone identifies that some of the virus entered the room

...stop right there.

It took them the confirmation of sensors to discover what should've been readily apparent by the naked eye, if they had only been paying attention.

Some of TCW episodes are pretty good, but some of the details of this particular two-parter has to make wonder if the writers and CGI artists were as attentive as the clonetroopers themselves. Not to mention the aforementioned sluggish pace and near pointlessness of Anakin and Obi-Wan's attempt to find a cure.

Incidentally, there was also a rather intriguing incident wherein we see Ashoka simply reach through the shield of a droideka before activating her lightsaber (inside the shield) to destroy the droideka.

We've seen that falling rocks can crush droidekas before, but we've never seen a girl reach through their shields. It'll be worth watching to see more such examples, because if all you have to do is put your gun through a droideka shield to shoot it, the fact that Jedi usually retreat before droidekas becomes just that bit more odd.

That's not new, in fact that's been known since we first saw droidekas. We've known all along that a gun could be shoved through a droideka's shield to shoot, because this is precisely what droidekas do with their own guns, just in the opposite direction.

[ILikeDeathNote]

The style of the show which takes severe liberties at times, either with people's moves or else

Hardly important. It's stylized CGI. I don't see why this would impact anything on the versus debate.

It's actually pretty important because not only does TCW qualify as canon, but it's a higher level of canon than, what, the vast majority of the EU? Didn't we establish that TCW is second only to the movies and novelizations of the movies in terms of canon status?

Of course, what you say is absolutely, 100% true. Now I know what I'm about to say is controversial, especially given that I'm going to say it on a vs. debate forum, but it does highlight how frustrating if not downright stupid the versus debate can be.

and the gross physics errors, make this material rather dubious to use for nitpicky analysis like it's applied to the movies.

Because Star Wars movies had no physics errors? The problem here isn't that it's CGI. The problem is that it's Star Wars. Fantasy in space. It never made sense, and never will

Well...yeah. In a lot of ways I think the whole versus debate completely misses the point of either franchise (the other being ST, of course). But of course this is for a separate rant/topic.

(unless you look to authors other then George Lucas and massive re-design the franchise).

Oh God.

I highlighted the bold part because I think this is the intended sole purpose of websites like SDN and even the SWTC and the true intent of persons like Wong and Saxton. They want to basically reinvent someone else's intellectual property into their own image, or more precisely to make Star Wars more "hard" because apparently for some reason "hard = better." This definitely seems to be the mindset as indicated by Atomic Rockets of the Space Patrol, which I should point out is maintained and owned by Nyrath, a member of SDN (as supported by numerous comments and references within that website), and is closely associated with RedImperator, also of SDN, once again as indicated by numerous references and comments throughout that website.

I'm not saying that hard science fiction is bad (big Niven fan here, and I'll admit to being a very big fan of Nyrath's website; in fact I wish it had its own forum community), but the whole attitude is suspect to say the least, especially when they seem so feverant to apply it to someone else's intellectual property. Past trends also suggest that sometimes the science can get simply too hard at the detriment of the story itself. This is a common complaint for more casual Niven fans/readers, especially of his later works, and it reminds me of episodes of The Simpsons (and a storyline from the short-lived Simpsons comic strip) and Mission Hill which precisely parody this mindset. I know Nyrath's website openly states that science must be respected, but c'mon, science fiction is hardly expected to make up for the lack of quality education in schools, or am I expected to believe that we should retroactively rework Homer's works to make them more authentic to Ancient Greece, lest we be worried that our middle and high school children start worshipping ancient pagan dieties?

But I've already ranted too much on a topic that richly deserves its own thread if not board. Hell, I could probably write a whole book on this topic, and who knows, maybe I will.

[Tyralak]

Past trends also suggest that sometimes the science can get simply too hard at the detriment of the story itself.

Stephen Baxter is notorious for this as well. His books are frustrating as hell to read.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Incidentally, there was also a rather intriguing incident wherein we see Ashoka simply reach through the shield of a droideka before activating her lightsaber (inside the shield) to destroy the droideka.

We've seen that falling rocks can crush droidekas before, but we've never seen a girl reach through their shields. It'll be worth watching to see more such examples, because if all you have to do is put your gun through a droideka shield to shoot it, the fact that Jedi usually retreat before droidekas becomes just that bit more odd.

Actually, droidekas' shields are very particular. Aside from the poke the gun thing, in all movies and in the assault on Teth, droidekas were struck by heavier fire, and would explode before their shields would even flicker and disappear.
Not only we'd suspect they're only anti-energy weapons, but even their anti-energy mechanism is rather unique.

[ILikeDeathNote]

Perhaps due to a limitation of the size of shield generator that can be carried on such a battledroid.

[Mike DiCenso]

Sounds more like some sort of a system overload, or the shield was punched through.
-Mike

[2046]

Incidentally, there was also a rather intriguing incident wherein we see Ashoka simply reach through the shield of a droideka before activating her lightsaber (inside the shield) to destroy the droideka.

We've seen that falling rocks can crush droidekas before, but we've never seen a girl reach through their shields. It'll be worth watching to see more such examples, because if all you have to do is put your gun through a droideka shield to shoot it, the fact that Jedi usually retreat before droidekas becomes just that bit more odd.

That's not new, in fact that's been known since we first saw droidekas. We've known all along that a gun could be shoved through a droideka's shield to shoot, because this is precisely what droidekas do with their own guns, just in the opposite direction.

If I ever have a shield, I'll follow this simple rule:

Reaching out with one's own gun I don't mind . . . it's enemies reaching in with theirs that freak me out.

As for the pre-exploding-for-your-convenience droidekas, I concur with the overload view, though I'm curious to know how long it takes droideka shields to drop anyway. If more than a few frames then simple penetration would explain the effect adequately . . . pokey-pokey, droideka starts to go boom, and shield (having failed sometime within the last few steps) drops within a few frames.

[l33telboi]

In regards to the Droideka shield thing, when Ashoka jumps onto it, you can see her lower body penetrating the shield as well. It doesn't seem to stop solid objects. At least not slowly moving solid objects.

...I wonder if it would stop holographic bullets. :P

[Mr. Oragahn]

In regards to the Droideka shield thing, when Ashoka jumps onto it, you can see her lower body penetrating the shield as well. It doesn't seem to stop solid objects. At least not slowly moving solid objects.

...I wonder if it would stop holographic bullets. :P

Depends if the shield has a resistance threshold for photons, magnetic fields and other quantum oddities.

[Mike DiCenso]

In regards to the Droideka shield thing, when Ashoka jumps onto it, you can see her lower body penetrating the shield as well. It doesn't seem to stop solid objects. At least not slowly moving solid objects.

...I wonder if it would stop holographic bullets. :P

Depends if the shield has a resistance threshold for photons, magnetic fields and other quantum oddities.

Heh. I should have remembered this; This shield weakness, both the Gungan shield and now the Droideka shields is very similar to the shields seen in Frank Herbert's classic Dune Chronicles. This shouldn't come as a suprise given how much of Dune George Lucas pays homage to in the OT.

"The slow blade penetrates the shield." indeed... ;-)

-Mike

[Kane Starkiller]

While I'm sure the SDN excuse that only some retarded clones who had their helmets off in a virus-laden area got sick will be their popular myth, the truth is that they all did.

The helmets are obviously hermetically sealed since we saw the clones operate in vacuum in the second episode. Thus either these particular suits were damaged/faulty or they removed their helmets.

[Mike DiCenso]

I recall in that episode they said that the suits would only provide protection from vacuum for a limited amount of time. It may also be that like the later Stormtrooper armor, that some variants do protect from vacuum, while others do not.
-Mike