"Star Wars: Death Star" and the destruction of Ald

[watchdog]

"... Beams of coherent particles, such as electrons, positrons, and the like, as well as amplified photon emissions, are often focused with large magnetic rings. Let us postulate that one could, in this fashion, generate a weaponized beam with enough force to blow a large asteroid apart with a single blast."

This sounds a lot like the weapon that downed the E-D's shields in that episode with the alien on the planet that wanted to be left alone, so he kept creating an illusionary ship to try and scare away the Enterprise. The warsies use it as their example of why Federation ships have weak shields by their standards. The weapons were jacketed streams of positrons and anti-protons and it took three shots to compleatly knock out the shields.

Watchdog:

This comes from an EU guide which said that a superlaser was a turbolaser on steroids, or something.

I think I vaugely remember this, I must be getting senile.

There's also a new EU reference about how a Venator-class ship could have superlasers mounted around its hangar bay to shoot other ships (blue beam in ROTJ). Of course, if it's found in the ROTJ:ICS, this would be just an attempt to solidify this idea.

What scene is this blue bolt in ROTJ? Or do you mean ROTS? That phaser-like beam I mentioned above?

This is also fueled by the small spheres mounted on the LAATs, sort of mini Death Stars.
However, all of these weapons have nothing to do with how a true superlaser works.
Besides, this whole EU stuff completely neglected the old and highly canonical description of the bizarre beam mechanism, provided in the novelization. If the information had been properly considered and forwarded to the authors back then, there would have never been such an idea that a superlaser was a turbolaser with big balls.

The new book shows that at this point, it's much about theories and postulates.
The hyperspace related technobabble effect is just there to show that the true superlaser is not a mere turbolaser.

I personally never believed that the superlaser was a big turbolaser, I find that the warsies usually make up very convinient explanations that are entirely self-serving. But then again they never want to give star trek any credit for anything.

[GStone]

Does anyone know how much pre-production work Lucas had in making the novel or was it the standard 'I barely get involved with the EU that much, so I didn't provide any rules, limitations or specifics for it'?

[Mr. Oragahn]

What scene is this blue bolt in ROTJ? Or do you mean ROTS? That phaser-like beam I mentioned above?

ROTS. Typo. :)
The blue beams we see in AOTC and ROTS, I think the ROTS: ICS calls them superlaser. Whatever. We know why they do this, when there's even less reason to do it.

[2046]

Does anyone know how much pre-production work Lucas had in making the novel or was it the standard 'I barely get involved with the EU that much, so I didn't provide any rules, limitations or specifics for it'?

He provides a personal line-edit on the film novelizations, along with some level of guidance beforehand.

[Mike DiCenso]

You know, Wong's desperate appeal to making hyperspace entery this high-energy thing that would require uber-shields for Wars starships made me laugh since he thinks he can compare the kind of hyperspace effect the DS' SL generates to that of the hyperdrives of the vastly smaller ships. It would be like trying to say that the E-D's or other Trek ship's shields and weapons are all-powerful since the Soliton Wave from TNG's "New Ground" which was a field that could enter warp was gaining enough power to destroy most of a planet in the process was rode straight through by the E-D, and then dissipated by five photon torpedoes.

I mean come on, Wong. Just admit it, the new Death Star book dealt a a bit of a blow to your ICS and fanwank power fantasies.
-Mike

[watchdog]

You guys know what they say, don't count your chickens before they hatch. We all thought that the compiled ICS book would do away with saxtons fan wank, I've seen this book at the local book store and a copy will probably show up at my local library soon. I will search my news reader for an e-book copy which will probably appear befor the end of the week.

[Mike DiCenso]

While the ICS compliation did not do away with Saxton's wanking, it at least did not add any further to it, either. The new EU Death Star SL explanation seems to also be a half-and-half from what I've seen and read so far.
-Mike

[Jedi Master Spock]

Reviewing the quotes thus far posted...

Curiously, it seems the new Death Star novel emphasizes some of the same things I've been saying at ST.com - conscription, the relationship between Tarkin and Vader, "enough power to destroy a planet" not necessarily being anywhere near 1e38-39 J, Imperial meddling in local politics, aliens being reduced to generally inferior status within the Empire, et ceterap

[GStone]

Does anyone know how much pre-production work Lucas had in making the novel or was it the standard 'I barely get involved with the EU that much, so I didn't provide any rules, limitations or specifics for it'?

He provides a personal line-edit on the film novelizations, along with some level of guidance beforehand.

Okay, so he was hands off on this one. I wanted to make sure there wasn't any backstage persective he had on it.

[Mr. Oragahn]

You know, Wong's desperate appeal to making hyperspace entery this high-energy thing that would require uber-shields for Wars starships made me laugh since he thinks he can compare the kind of hyperspace effect the DS' SL generates to that of the hyperdrives of the vastly smaller ships. It would be like trying to say that the E-D's or other Trek ship's shields and weapons are all-powerful since the Soliton Wave from TNG's "New Ground" which was a field that could enter warp was gaining enough power to destroy most of a planet in the process was rode straight through by the E-D, and then dissipated by five photon torpedoes.

I mean come on, Wong. Just admit it, the new Death Star book dealt a a bit of a blow to your ICS and fanwank power fantasies.
-Mike

Not necessarily.

But has he even established the mechanisms at play, both for traditional hyperspace travel, and the now new hyperspace rift thingy?

You know, talking about high energy figures generated from any possible misinterpretation ever, one of them recently got calculating the pre-jump accelerations. This was so much wank that even on a board like SDN, it didn't fly that far. But with pincers you know. Not the kind of outraged people claiming it's nonsense. Just one shy remark, saying it might be a bit too far fetched.

There's another thing. The EU has now the Death Star equipped with railguns.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Besides, it's curious that there's no talk about how Alderaan got precisely destroyed.

This book is no shy of using scientific numbers, quantifications and all those widgets, up to the point where it feels like a travesty of Star Wars.

Why should such a book not deal, in details, with the destruction of Alderaan?

I'll be waiting for the chapter that's related to this event, which I'm sure is properly adressed.

[2046]

Interesting quotes (verbatim, errors and all, from SDN):

If it didn't work - well, the hypermatter reactor was capable of generating an energy burst equivalent to the total weekly output of several main-sequencee stars;l if anything went ownky, it wasn't liekly he'd be around long enough to notice.

This is the quote they're using to estimate the reactor's nominal output. But look here:

It took no more than an instant. Tenn knew that the beam's total destructive power was much bigger than matter-energy conversion limited to realspace. At full charge, the hyper-matter reactor provided a superluminal "boost" that caused much of the planet's mass to be shifted immediately into hyperspacec. As a result, Alderaan exploded into a fiery ball fo eye-smiting light almost instantaneously, and a planar ring of energy-reflux - the "shadow" of a hyperspatial ripple - spread rapidly outward.

The phrasing is of interest. Note that the "hyper-matter reactor" is the source of the "superluminal 'boost'" causing mass to shift into the hyperspace domain, which is how the destructive power is so much greater than a "matter-energy conversion limited to realspace" . . . i.e. fusion, antimatter, et cetera.

This makes it sound as if the beam itself is merely a sort of conduit for some sort of wacky hyperspace-related energy or particles derived from the reactor itself.

Further, it suggests that the first quote is not in reference to normal reactor output, but probably a reference to what would happen if the magnetic-ring beam-director doodads failed to direct the hyperspatial effect accordingly. (I'd be interested to see the rest of the context to confirm.)

[Trinoya]

This theory, while a little bit hard to swallow, is certainly one of the better ones to come out of a book in recent memory. I could certainly be content with it. It just seems to be filling in with mombojumbo that isn't really needed though...

[Mr. Oragahn]

Interesting quotes (verbatim, errors and all, from SDN):

If it didn't work - well, the hypermatter reactor was capable of generating an energy burst equivalent to the total weekly output of several main-sequencee stars;l if anything went ownky, it wasn't liekly he'd be around long enough to notice.

This is the quote they're using to estimate the reactor's nominal output. But look here:

It took no more than an instant. Tenn knew that the beam's total destructive power was much bigger than matter-energy conversion limited to realspace. At full charge, the hyper-matter reactor provided a superluminal "boost" that caused much of the planet's mass to be shifted immediately into hyperspacec. As a result, Alderaan exploded into a fiery ball fo eye-smiting light almost instantaneously, and a planar ring of energy-reflux - the "shadow" of a hyperspatial ripple - spread rapidly outward.

The phrasing is of interest. Note that the "hyper-matter reactor" is the source of the "superluminal 'boost'" causing mass to shift into the hyperspace domain, which is how the destructive power is so much greater than a "matter-energy conversion limited to realspace" . . . i.e. fusion, antimatter, et cetera.

This makes it sound as if the beam itself is merely a sort of conduit for some sort of wacky hyperspace-related energy or particles derived from the reactor itself.

Further, it suggests that the first quote is not in reference to normal reactor output, but probably a reference to what would happen if the magnetic-ring beam-director doodads failed to direct the hyperspatial effect accordingly. (I'd be interested to see the rest of the context to confirm.)

It is correct that the phrasing of the first quote you refer to is actually interpretable both ways.
One can see that it may relate to what the hypermatter reactor would do when about to explode. That is, loose control over its reaction.

That would mean that under a controlled reaction, the reactor is incapable of producing such power.

Same applies with the Imperial Star Destroyer equipped with a prototype hypermatter reactor which blew up in her face and disintegrated the whole ship.

You don't know if it's the real controlled power deal, or just some complete uncontrolled fuxored chain reaction.

Besides, I'm going to stress on that: why don't we get quotes that described the destruction of Alderaan?

I mean, for example, it would quickly settle the question, as far as the EU is concerned, about the latest stance regarding planetary shielding or not.

The lack of a planetary shield admitted by the book would immediately point out that the Death Star can't output anything near e38 joules, or even e32 joules, because the movie is extremely clear about the power of the beam in case there's no shield: it's a powerful blast that completely burns a whole hemisphere, literally peels off a good chunk of the surface and sends a super hot ionized atmosphere into space, but it's far from being anything close to blowing up even half a planet.
Enough to destroy a world anyway.

The overkill coming with the secondary explosion.

So, again, what does the book say about that Alderaanian planetary shield?

For the reminded, the ANH novelization clearly established that the defenses were all about cannons. No shield was ever referenced.

[Mr. Oragahn]

This theory, while a little bit hard to swallow, is certainly one of the better ones to come out of a book in recent memory. I could certainly be content with it. It just seems to be filling in with mombojumbo that isn't really needed though...

Because a lightsabre is not a bunch of mumbojumbo, really? :)
Or a seismic charge?
Or even a turbolaser, actually?
Or even tibanna gas, repulsors, etc.

It seems that certain people feel really unsure by the time one would suggest that forces in SW fight with things more elaborate and exotic than sledge hammers really.