Guardians of the Galaxy -----> it sucks, yes

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy -----> it sucks, yes

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:17 pm

sonofccn wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:It's really the mark of a damned fragile plot that missing one single line (and when did it happen?) makes the whole difference between WTF and ah ok.
When important points are, well, important, good movies do make sure that the point is properly conveyed.
Actually its said at least twice. Once after we're first introduced to the Ravagers and complaning Yondu has always been soft on the "boy", Star lord, they mentioned he was cargo and should have been delivered then at the end they specificly state they were hired by Star Lord's father to pick him up. And obviously the fact Star Lord's mother describes his father as an "angel" who came down in bright light in a movie with aliens was a bit of a hint. In fact watching it cold I assumed the alien ship was his father's.
OK, I see, they drop a very important clue and the way they deliver it is through the suffering whispering of a dying woman. I had to rewatch the part about the light thing and I got it. The point is, whatever she babbles is barely audible. Even with darn headphones on and the nearby neighbourhood slaughtered during the night to be sure not to be disturbed.
I thought the man picking Peter in the hallway to be the father at first, until at some point his somewhat distant behaviour made me think he might be more of an uncle or some relative, until we hear the mother, in the same weak voice (but in a clearer way), say that dad will return and that the older dude is Quill's grand'pa. As for the "he was an angel" bit, it just sounded like the mother really loved her husband and saw him as perfect. Perhaps it's not a usual thing to say about a man in that part of the globe though. Like, you know, your kid/husband was an angel (read: sweet). It's not like his very mother called him my starlord, light of my heart, in her letter... wait. OOPS.
Yes, another wasted opportunity at making things clear when effin' needed. Too late is too late.
It's so badly delivered that our friend Lucky would have also pointed that out if it were so obvious and easy to catch.
This is where the movie is also dissonant. All the narrative is straight in your face in the most glaring way possible, but the one thing that would clearly and undoubtedly give a hint that Quill is rather special in some way is served in such a hush hush way that wants to be so convincing and subtle, with a drop of melo sauce ontop, that yes, you can totally miss the clue. And sorry, can't hit rewind in theaters.
One good way to make it clear would have been to have the kid run out, settle on some bench and perhaps look at some object given to him by his mom and which supposedly belonged to his father. Then, either we'd get a flashback of her mother telling him the backstory of she meeting his father with mommy saying something similar about the father's weird nature, or his mother's voice [off screen] saying he was an angel, eventually with the whispered word angel somehow echoing as the beam of light suddenly catches the kid.
We wouldn't even need to see the ship!
Then for the entire movie, besides watching what brings the whole band to become the oh so grand guardians of everywhere, we also know that there's an entire subplot involving the kid and his most likely otherwordly father.
Which, in fact, would be rather important. Like, you know, another kid in a distant galaxy who happened to have the Force flowing inside him because of daddy's good use of his male attributes.

Also, when do they say he's any kind of cargo? At best I picked the part of them picking up Quill (right after the prison), and that's about it. Nothing brining and new information since the beginning of the movie.
As for the end, I got that Quill was half man half deus ex machina, but where again is it said, specificly, that he had been collected by the Ravagers on his father's order?
But in any event its a minor problem and hardly damning since this movie isn't about how Star Lord got into space but rather how he and the rest became the, title drop, Guardians of the Galaxy and saved the universe.
Well if we go down that route, nothing really is important until the band unites to contain the infinity stone's magic purple and Quill utters we're the princes of the universe, thank you goodbye.
I guess they really, really needed to shoehorn the title's at some point.
In reality, everything leads to this conclusion, every single character's backstory and the reason of their presence at this fateful verging moment in galactic history.
The fact is, as I and other critics pointed out, that said backstories get a shitty treatment and are massively neglected.

In Star Wars (ANH), you could say that why Obi-Wan and Luke meet because in the past Luke's father was killed by Darth Vader and blah blah has zero value. But it has, and it's delivered properly, clearly. That's also why ANH worked so well and why Guardians of the Galaxy is just flashy filler.

Some other noticeable issues:

- The huuuuge city gets evacuated in 11 minutes. Ha ha ha, not kidding you.
Really? Not a snowball's chance in hell. We surely didn't see the massive civilian fleet needed for that, nor the huge and desperate traffic jam resulting from his. Unless they have access to super teleportation tech, which we haven't seen a iota of, and which would have been very, very useful to save the city, as you can imagine. So we can safely rule that out.

- Also, a point I forgot earlier, there's Gamora who's kicking all sorts of arse and leaping over huge distances, resisting the electrolance used by the blue borgette that lit her up like a christmas tree, but she gets pinned down by two or three random thugs in the prison.

- The PG-13 rating is so solidly enforced that even Groot throwing a man, head and torso first, at the speed of something like 50 meters/second (that's 180 kph ok?) into a thick metallic beam, doesn't rupture the guy's skull or his ribcage. Nope. And he just happens to be conscious after that to fall and scream. That's cartoon physics right there and that's a reason why this damned movie should have been a CGI production for kids.

- You gotta love criminal records being expunged because a planet's been saved. Up to this day, Gamora was on Ronan's side, the same one precisely attacking the Nova Empire and killing people with joy, kids including as we're absolutely clearly reminded (see, that's what I call CLEAR information). She herself even points out that she never let Ronan down, never failed. So now, please picture Heinrich Himmler going rogue against Adolph Hitler, along a bunch of scumbags and they get Nazi HQ down for good so Himmler & pals get a medal, friendly smiles and handshakes from Eisenhower and Patton, plus a brand new plane which he hops into before leaving with style. Yeah erm I think that might be problematic. That's so retarded.
You thought Ronan was a pinch dramatic and over the top in his ideology. Well now you've given approximatively half the galaxy a good reason to nuke Xandar, including Xandarians themselves who lost relatives and are ready to start a civil war against Mrs Fruity Haircut's government. Who needs Thanos when your empire is ran by such dicks?
Last edited by Mr. Oragahn on Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy -----> no, it doesn't

Post by sonofccn » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:51 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:OK, I see, they drop a very important clue and the way they deliver it is through the suffering whispering of a dying woman. I had to rewatch the part about the light thing and I got it. The point is, whatever she babbles is barely audible. Even with darn headphones on and the nearby neighbourhood slaughtered during the night so I'm sure not to be disturbed.
I thought the man picking Peter in the hallway to be the father at first, until at some point his somewhat distant behaviour made me think he might be more of an uncle or some relative, until we hear the mother, in the same weak voice (but in a clearer way), that the dude is Quill's grand'pa. As for the "he was an angel" bit, it just sounded like the mother really loved her husband and saw him as perfect. Perhaps it's not a usual thing to say about a man in that part of the globe though. Like, you know, your kid/husband was an angel (read: sweet). It's not like his very mother called him my starlord, light of my heart, in her letter... wait. OOPS.
I didn't have any issues hearing her in a noisy theater so don't know what to tell you.

But in any event the movie stated two or three times, depending if you count the mother, that Star Lord was "special" so, like Lucky said, the issue was you not understanding/listening to the movie rather than any mistake GOTG did.
One good way to make it clear would have been to have the kid run out, settle on some bench and perhaps look at some object given to him by his mom and which supposedly belonged to his father. Then, either we'd get a flashback of her mother telling him the backstory of she meeting his father with mommy saying something similar about the father's weird nature, or his mother's voice [off screen] saying he was an angel, eventually with the whispered word angel somehow echoing as the beam of light suddenly catches the kid.
The issue is that the focus of that scene isn't who's Star Lord's father is but on his mother, and her death, who is far more important to Star Lord's backstory and character arc.
Also, when do they say he's any kind of cargo? At best I picked the part of them picking up Quill (right after the prison), and that's about it. Nothing brining and new information since the beginning of the movie.
First time would be after Star Lord hangs up on Yondu in the scene where Yondu puts a price on Star Lord's head. The second time would be after Youndu has been given what he thinks is the orb and is flying off he and another pirate mention they were hired to deliver Star Lord by his father.
Well if we go down that route, nothing really is important until the band unites to contain the infinity stone's magic purple and Quill utters we're the princes of the universe, thank you goodbye.
I guess they really, really needed to shoehorn the title's at some point.
In reality, everything leads to this conclusion, every single character's backstory and the reason of their presence at this fateful verging moment in galactic history.
The fact is, as I and other critics pointed out, that said backstories get a shitty treatment and are massively neglected.
I'm sorry in terms of the central plot of the movie who's Star Lord's father is is as relevent as who was Luke's mother, to return to Star Wars, whom I'm not sure we even had a name for until the Prequels. Star Lord's backstory and character arc is him coming to terms with his mother's death and finally reaching out to his new family.
You gotta love criminal records being expunged because a planet's been saved. Up to this day, Gamora was on Ronan's side, the same one precisely attacking the Nova Empire and killing people with joy, kids including as we're absolutely clearly reminded (see, that's what I call CLEAR information). She herself even points out that she never let Ronan down, never failed. So now, please picture Heinrich Himmler going rogue against Adolph Hitler, along a bunch of scumbags and they get Nazi HQ down for good so Himmler & pals get a medal, friendly smiles and handshakes from Eisenhower and Patton, plus a brand new plane which he hops into before leaving with style. Yeah erm I think that might be problematic. That's so retarded.
Well I would be the first to admit GOTG is hardly flawless nor do I neccesarily find it believiable in a realistic sense but I find it funny, considering your previous refrence to Star Wars, to dwell on this particular issue since this is exactly what Lucas demanded of the audiance. Hell unlike Gamora who at her first chance jumped ship from the crazed genocidal maniac Vader, up until the very last minute, only stated goal was to take over the evil overlord position.

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy -----> no, it doesn't

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:23 am

sonofccn wrote:I didn't have any issues hearing her in a noisy theater so don't know what to tell you.
Most of what she says can be understood but the specific part she delivers in a suffocating way like if she were shitting a log just happens to be barely intelligible, that's all.
But in any event the movie stated two or three times, depending if you count the mother, that Star Lord was "special" so, like Lucky said, the issue was you not understanding/listening to the movie rather than any mistake GOTG did.
He's made clearly special at the end, which by that time is quite damn late to explain the thing that happens right at the beginning of the movie.
I spotted the "cargo" part, and the dude growls it so at first I thought it was some slang and saying he was [beep] but no, he says "he was cargo". He says something before but if it ain't subtitled, you can't get it. Bizarre words, dunno. Still, none of what I get from what he says makes Quill anything special. At best, he's cargo, which since he was kidnapped, happens to be logical. But at no point it explains why the hell him, which brings me to the initial qualm of why bothering to pick this boy up and no other one. That's the point. For the whole damned movie, it was a story of a guy, just a normal human, who happened to be part of all that because of a most far fetched, lazily penned introductory sequence.
Plus the ship that conveniently happens to be absolutely, totally super silent. Would it be X-Files, I'd say OK, but the movie makes a point showing these ships to be particularly noisy, as far as giving them a motorcycle noise.
That's also something that wears thin on me, the whole ninja teleporation thing. It's so overused in movies and shows of late, it's fucking lazy and insulting. Characters suddenly appear right behind, in front or ontop, or manage to go away without making a single sound at all, anywhere to be seen.
Like when Quill ends in a bag. Groot just happens to teleport behind him, but there's the racoon who is literally seen there, standing before Quill. I mean do I have to describe how lazy and deplorable this is?
Winter Soldier had a ton of those lame tricks and they get so old. I guess the point of quick buck entertainment is really to produce as many movies as possible, and equally fast, so attention to such details really doesn't matter, or more precisely can't be allowed to matter, but it still is insulting. It's glaring but for some reason you're expected to deny what you see or you're expected to either be too dumb or too blind to get it.
One good way to make it clear would have been to have the kid run out, settle on some bench and perhaps look at some object given to him by his mom and which supposedly belonged to his father. Then, either we'd get a flashback of her mother telling him the backstory of she meeting his father with mommy saying something similar about the father's weird nature, or his mother's voice [off screen] saying he was an angel, eventually with the whispered word angel somehow echoing as the beam of light suddenly catches the kid.
The issue is that the focus of that scene isn't who's Star Lord's father is but on his mother, and her death, who is far more important to Star Lord's backstory and character arc.
First of all, it's barely more important. Super daddy is why Quill gets kidnapped in the first place, and then why Peter saves the day in a complete deux ex machina at the end. So you bet it would be a good thing to establish why this happens so conveniently.
Secondly, if the emphasis was to be put on the mother's death, then it just seconds my point that delivering the equally relevant information about Quill's father should have been done at another moment.
The whole survival against the purple burn because he's half super doesn't work. Why? Because until it's proven, on screen, that he's half human and half metabeans, it just feels like one of the cheapest solutions the writers pulled out of their arses.
To go back to ANH, you'll notice that Luke is never established to be special save for a very minute hint about his father's duties and potential abilities, and the whole movie doesn't pull some fantashit out of nowhere with Luke being picked because he is THE ONE or the same Luke cooking voodoo stuff because he's Force imbued. Nope. In fact the whole movie is built on the premise that Luke is enrolled in that adventure because he was unlucky to cross the path of those damned droids. The only hint at the odd link with the father and Obi-Wan knowing is properly established and has no influence on the rest. Even when he's told that his father was a Jedi Knight, the reliance on any kind of power can be totally put on Obi-Wan's bill, up to the final run in the trench.
A GotG treatment would have had Luke pull all sorts of fancy tricks out of nowhere at the end of the movie, with not a single hint of Obi-Wan acting as an angel nor Luke having any exceptional power. You'd be huh, the hell that's convenient and conclude, legitimately, that it's a rather miserable conclusion. Only for Luke to learn from Leia's mouth, or from a holovideo cast by R2 he kept in stores, right before the olympics medals ceremony at the very conclusion of the movie, that his daddy used to juggle with lightsabres at the age of twelve merely using Force telekinetics and Luke boy also has this power.
Well if we go down that route, nothing really is important until the band unites to contain the infinity stone's magic purple and Quill utters we're the princes of the universe, thank you goodbye.
I guess they really, really needed to shoehorn the title's at some point.
In reality, everything leads to this conclusion, every single character's backstory and the reason of their presence at this fateful verging moment in galactic history.
The fact is, as I and other critics pointed out, that said backstories get a shitty treatment and are massively neglected.
I'm sorry in terms of the central plot of the movie who's Star Lord's father is is as relevent as who was Luke's mother, to return to Star Wars, whom I'm not sure we even had a name for until the Prequels. Star Lord's backstory and character arc is him coming to terms with his mother's death and finally reaching out to his new family.
I don't remember saying that the kidnapping is the central piece of the movie. I'm saying it's part of the narrative and plays right at the beginning of the movie, so it can't be ignored.
It still clearly wasn't a distant backgroundish element of the plot, as you could equally say that this key part of the character and, huh, his backstory (precisely) was to be revealed to the audience... at the end.
It's mediocre storytelling, that's all. They attempted acrobatics and it failed. They wanted to play smart and build up to some revealation how he was picked up for delivery to daddy, but until all pieces made it logical at the end, it wasn't logical.
You gotta love criminal records being expunged because a planet's been saved. Up to this day, Gamora was on Ronan's side, the same one precisely attacking the Nova Empire and killing people with joy, kids included as we're absolutely clearly reminded (see, that's what I call CLEAR information). She herself even points out that she never let Ronan down, never failed. So now, please picture Heinrich Himmler going rogue against Adolph Hitler, along a bunch of scumbags and they get Nazi HQ down for good so Himmler & pals get a medal, friendly smiles and handshakes from Eisenhower and Patton, plus a brand new plane which he hops into before leaving with style. Yeah erm I think that might be problematic. That's so retarded.
Well I would be the first to admit GOTG is hardly flawless nor do I neccesarily find it believiable in a realistic sense but I find it funny, considering your previous refrence to Star Wars, to dwell on this particular issue since this is exactly what Lucas demanded of the audiance. Hell unlike Gamora who at her first chance jumped ship from the crazed genocidal maniac Vader, up until the very last minute, only stated goal was to take over the evil overlord position.
Actually Lucas was such at unease with it that he did remove old Vader ghost to put the Anakin ghost before the fall, precisely because it was too ambiguous. Admitedly, it was in Luke's inner circle since only he seemed to see the ghosts and the ways of the Force weren't clear at all as far the equivalent of "karma" went. For the rest of the galaxy, Vader was gone for good.
GotG doesn't have this excuse. It's plain politics for all to see. Chick even parades in miniskirt, just for the kicks. Suck it up, Xandarians and other random aliens.

Oh, besides, they should really stop saying they saved the damn whole galaxy when a single silly nuke up Ronan's arse would have solved the problem at once. Earth without Avengers would still pwn him hard.
Hey stop the dude before he lands or you're all dead. Ok, copy that.
NUKE MISSILE MISSILE NUKE MISSILE MISSILE NUKE MISSILE MISSILE NUKE ad nauseam

Damn that movie was so stupid.

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy -----> it sucks, yes

Post by Sothis » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:35 pm

My own thoughts on GOTG are that it was a fun, entertaining romp that enabled me to switch off for a couple of hours and unwind. Oscar winner it isn't but then, it isn't trying to be. It's aim is to be eye-candy and it succeeds quite easily at this. Looking forward to getting it on bluray and watching it again!

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy -----> it sucks, yes

Post by Praeothmin » Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:32 pm

I always find funny that people who love the OT of SW then turn around and bash a movie like GotG for being flawed and full of plot-holes, willfully ignoring the many plot-holes and faults of these older, revered, movies... :)

Anyway, I liked it, it's not the best movie ever, but it's fun, entertaining, and I'm eagerly awaiting the Blue-Ray in the sales-bin at Wal-Mart's to buy it... :)

"I am Groot!"


:)

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy -----> it sucks, yes

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:57 pm

Thing is, the whole idea of Gamora even walking out in the open on Xandar is totally retarded.
It's even aggraviated by the fact that when she's arrested, the guys have right in front of them a computer that gives them the entire shebang about her role and the link with Thanos and Ronan. At that moment in time, the seller who kicks Quill out knows who Ronan is, some kind of über Bin Laden. The prison population knows it, they immediately recognize her from a good distance the very moment Gomara steps inside the main courtyard of the Kyln prison.

Of course, Gamora just happens to be waiting outside of THE unique unimpressive reseller on Xandar (counts billions of people) and oddly enough, there's no fucking bounty put on her head by like half of the advanced species in that galaxy, which conveniently allows the writers to have the hunters focus on Quill instead. So Groot and Rocket just happen to get the memo about Quill being now tracked, but Gamora walks around without having to care the slightest. Huh, how nice!
She doesn't even wear the absolute minimally required disguise gear in order to precisely not look like goddamned Gamora. Nooo, she just goes to Xandar, THE planet Ronan has made no secret he intends to screw it big time, she doesn't even sport some fancy wig or make up and just happens to pop there, unhindered. We don't even see where the heck she landed her ship, but surely not anywhere close to where she conveniently met Quill.
Let's also assume, for the sake of it, that Quill's ship had a beacon on it.

So, logically, when Gamora's caught by Xandarian police forces, instead of, you know, treating her like a massive high profile terrorist and sending her to a most dirty place where shadowy intelligence agents will certainly know how to handle the green bitch, they just send her to some random prison like if she were a nobody.

It's terrible. It makes the character non-believable, as the writers paint a specific background full of serious implications for a character and rather conveniently totally ignore it minutes later. Good job fellas.

Let's not talk about Quill using a clearly ravager-ish ship to land on Xandar and not be spotted the moment he enters the atmopshere, or even sooner.


Working from a similar premise with Quill grabbing the orb and meeting Ronan's forces, but avoiding the rather lame fanfare tone of the beginning and making it clear that there's a clock ticking and Quill can't fuck around because we'd clearly get a sense that the one who comes first gets the loot, and Quill would be rather hasty instead of wandering around like if there were no time-pressure, we'd have the ability to resume with Quill going to Xandar ASAP and quickly do a good sale on the odd orb he picked. That, because the beginning of the movie didn't suck too much, so that clearly better version would be written so to somehow be more logical about how Gamora would have approached Quill, at first. Quill himself would be landing in a region of Xandar not being so open, queer and clean, but more slummish. Think downtown Boston, dark and all that. There Gamora would have used a couple more henchmen and ALL of them would have been in disguise and using great gear to that very specific purpose!
Quill's ship would have been tracked by a beacon he didn't spot anyway, this to allow us a nice excuse for Gamora's squad to enjoy a rough idea of where he'll be headed, and a much easier excuse to have all of them home on a rather well known stinky reseller.
Quill being a ravager and all, he would have to keep a low profile, but despite all his best efforts, he'd get spotted. We'd try to avoid having the plot solve this by having his rather non ravager-ish ship tracked by the Xandarian defenses. That would be lazy. Rather than that, we'd have him be double-crossed by someone who had a deal with authorities, or wanted to take both the 40K bounty and keep the orb. He'd be Quill's direct enemy in this place and perhaps for the whole movie, or at least a good half of it and probably return for a sequel.
Quill would only be spared from a caputre because of Gamora's unique abilities. But with the police on both's sixes now, they'd have to team up and find a way out together.
Perhaps the plot would also avoid making Gamora a direct lieutnant to Ronan, sparing us having to explain how a mass killer would suddenly be Quill's best (sex) friend.
Then we'd add Groot and Rocket who'd be the bounty hunters amongst way too many on this planet, but would happen to have a plant within Xandarian forces or something else giving them a head start. They'd still be sort of criminals as well so they couldn't afford being captured. It's a risky business but worth the money. At first they'd want to catch Quill and grab the bounty but get paid in a safe zone, but would come close to them and spot Gamora, and getting even more excited. Another closer encounter would pitch all four of them in a close quarters situation, againsts the Xandarian forces which would now be hunting them all.
Drax's addition to the team could come there, or he could be the pilot of the ship used by the other fours to leave the planet, or could have already been captured by Groot and Rocket, etc. Or he could be met later on.

The rest of the script would just be following the same recipe to totally ungay that creamy flick.

In the end, our five guys wouldn't be hailed as heroes and claimored openly by high dignitaries of the Nova Empire in play day, but still seen as criminals by many, although now offered a way to work undercover. They'd still have a ton of enemies, logically expected ones that is. They'd be a dirty team working for either the Nova Empire, perhaps a sub branch that specializes in murky activities, or another entity being totally independant of the Nova Emprie.
Same script would also have the decency to have someone else name this five guys band Guardians of the Galaxy, if it's really necessary to shove the title somewhere down the road.
Otherwise we'd gladly do without it.

This perhaps has vibes of A New Hope meats Fifth Element meats Sin City, but it would hardly be a bad point.
Last edited by Mr. Oragahn on Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy -----> it sucks, yes

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:07 pm

Praeothmin wrote:I always find funny that people who love the OT of SW then turn around and bash a movie like GotG for being flawed and full of plot-holes, willfully ignoring the many plot-holes and faults of these older, revered, movies... :)
There's like a magnitude of difference and it's the overall result that really prevents GotG from benefitting from a minimal amount of good hearted defense in its favour. It's so attention whorish, going for cheap laughs, all style and still quite flawed there, that I don't see any reason to give it any free pass, especially when it's put up so high on the chart of awesomeness that it must be pushing into God's balls right now.

Besides, the best movie of the OT, TESB, was that good, plain and simple. It also was done seriously enough, both in style and drama, as to be read as a solid and meaningful story with excellent characters and rather deep themes, properly explored while also being pulp enough. It really was a stellar balance. So you can excuse such a movie for its flaws.
Comparing SW's OT with GotG is quite distasteful.
GotG will be forgotten for the forgettable heavy-makeup cheap trash it was, that's all.

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy -----> it sucks, yes

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:45 am

I lol'd. The so called civilized Xandarians know nothing about the slightest form of trials?
Arrested and sent to a slam in the middle of space, full of very nice people and equally gentle guards who happen to weild heavy gatlings and rocket launchers... in space, and where your chances of survival obviously rate very, very high.
Yeah, well, why not?
The reason this movie works for so many is because it's not held to any standard of decency.
You're expected to be stupid, enter stupid and leave just as stupid, all mesmerized by the beautiful CGI.
The modern movie making is clever in that it relies on rushing the story so fast that you're like a rat caught in a maze of flashing lights, sliding down a water tube at super sonic speeds. The effect is probably similar to hard drugs.
It's also cleverly built as to attract your attention here while it horribly fucks up the rest there. In fact, to keep track of the speed, you cannot allow your brain to work. You cannot think. To stay in the dance, you have to really enter some kind of vegetable mode, where somehow it seems that your own brain, if it still were capable of some remote amount of criticism these days, would simply shut down to minimal functional levels for self preservation purposes. There's some kind of anesthesia, as you don't have time to digest the, in fact, enormous amount of narrative nonsense that's thrown at your face.

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy -----> it sucks, yes

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:02 am

Why this movie also seems to "work" is because they swapped Xandar for Earth.
As said much earlier, had the action taken place on Earth, the final battle would have been much more interesting and a completely different story. If anything, the ship would have crashed while shot at from the ground.
Ronan and his pals are so retardo-st00pid that they don't scramble fighters until well after a rather obvious antagonistic fleet uses its two largest crafts to shoot at them, and realize that these unknown guys have actually used the useless yet huge half-bowl of orange goo as a distraction and cover for their smaller crafts.
There's so much one could say about this battle and even the way it ends. Practically every five or ten seconds, you have a big moment of WTF. It really gets incredibly funny noticing them, although I'm pretty sure that wasn't the intent.

Okay, just another one. See that stupid fancy energy net the Xandar fighters cast?
Well, did you notice that all those fighters could smoke the Kree crafts out of the skies effortlessly? Now, do you remember that only three ravager planes were enough to utterly gut the Dark Aster's engine section? That shit ship is made out of tissue paper.
Not only it means they could have already blown the engines and thrusters right there if they had continued, without even needing to do anything else, but also that all these retards could have employed the firepower of the Xandarian fighters to destroy the DA in no time flat, most likely completely blowing up the stupidly exposed main chamber and kill Ronan right there. How many Xandarian fighters were there? A hundred or two, somehow.
:|
Would the blue punk survive this onslaught, since the plan was to kill him with a rocket launcher of rather pathetic firepower, it's absolutely clear that Ronan wouldn't have survived being pancaked inside the DA after his mothership enjoyed a mile or two free fall first contact with the ground of Xandar, and it's equally obvious, then, that no one on the "good guys'" side would have had any reason to doubt that such a destruction would kill Ronan.

Oh, plus the yellow tractor beams. Guess what could have been done with them...

Now, compare this to a movie that so got mocked, despite being considerably more spectacular and entertaining, with in fact, yes, better humour and a much more dramatic first massive battle: Independance Day (aka ID4).

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy

Post by sonofccn » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:31 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Most of what she says can be understood but the specific part she delivers in a suffocating way like if she were shitting a log just happens to be barely intelligible, that's all.
Your mileage varies I guess. I heard the specific part referenced just fine in the theater.
He's made clearly special at the end, which by that time is quite damn late to explain the thing that happens right at the beginning of the movie.
I spotted the "cargo" part, and the dude growls it so at first I thought it was some slang and saying he was [beep] but no, he says "he was cargo". He says something before but if it ain't subtitled, you can't get it. Bizarre words, dunno. Still, none of what I get from what he says makes Quill anything special. At best, he's cargo, which since he was kidnapped, happens to be logical. But at no point it explains why the hell him, which brings me to the initial qualm of why bothering to pick this boy up and no other one. That's the point. For the whole damned movie, it was a story of a guy, just a normal human, who happened to be part of all that because of a most far fetched, lazily penned introductory sequence.
That he was cargo explains why they were on Earth and why they kidnapped him which you previously argued were plot holes. Why he’s important enough for this or whom ordered it isn’t important and would only distract from the actual plot.
First of all, it's barely more important. Super daddy is why Quill gets kidnapped in the first place, and then why Peter saves the day in a complete deux ex machina at the end. So you bet it would be a good thing to establish why this happens so conveniently

I don't remember saying that the kidnapping is the central piece of the movie. I'm saying it's part of the narrative and plays right at the beginning of the movie, so it can't be ignored.
It still clearly wasn't a distant backgroundish element of the plot, as you could equally say that this key part of the character and, huh, his backstory (precisely) was to be revealed to the audience... at the end.
It's mediocre storytelling, that's all. They attempted acrobatics and it failed. They wanted to play smart and build up to some revealation how he was picked up for delivery to daddy, but until all pieces made it logical at the end, it wasn't logical.


I guess we’ll just have to disagree on the importance of the kidnapping. My interpretation was that it was a necessary mechanism in order to explain why a man from contemporary Earth is doing in this space opera which it did effectively, Quill being taken from Earth and all, and is no longer important beyond that point. A mucguffin of plot as it were.

Now as for the alleged importance of Quill’s ancestry the burden would fall to you to prove it. There is nothing in the sequence of events which demands or requires one needs to have Quill’s dad in them in order to, briefly, touch an infinity gem. Ronin survived his contact, and much easier than Star Lord, and Drax, Rocket and Gamora all took a share of the destructive power and survived. Hell even the slave girl managed to survive a few seconds before she completely immolated.
To go back to ANH, you'll notice that Luke is never established to be special save for a very minute hint about his father's duties and potential abilities, and the whole movie doesn't pull some fantashit out of nowhere with Luke being picked because he is THE ONE or the same Luke cooking voodoo stuff because he's Force imbued. Nope. In fact the whole movie is built on the premise that Luke is enrolled in that adventure because he was unlucky to cross the path of those damned droids. The only hint at the odd link with the father and Obi-Wan knowing is properly established and has no influence on the rest. Even when he's told that his father was a Jedi Knight, the reliance on any kind of power can be totally put on Obi-Wan's bill, up to the final run in the trench.
I would have to disagree. Luke finding out his father was a jedi rather than a mundane freighter pilot by definition makes him special. It elevates him above the muggles and marks him for great things regardless if his abilities are literally in the blood or not. A standard staple to explain heroes, I believe, which dates back down through the history of story telling.
Actually Lucas was such at unease with it that he did remove old Vader ghost to put the Anakin ghost before the fall, precisely because it was too ambiguous. Admitedly, it was in Luke's inner circle since only he seemed to see the ghosts and the ways of the Force weren't clear at all as far the equivalent of "karma" went. For the rest of the galaxy, Vader was gone for good.
None of which changes that Vader was "redeemed" after a life time of very bad stuff and the audience was expected to accept this as a "good" thing. For fun scrub Vader’s name for any Nazi and imagining a journalist writing up a story like Lucas filmed. A bit silly isn’t it?

What is Gamora but an extension of that same easy redemption logic. We don’t see any atrocities done by her, we know she’s good so therefore “good” characters treat her as good.

One certainly doesn’t have to like a protagonist centered morality but it isn’t unique or exclusive to GOTG.
Oh, besides, they should really stop saying they saved the damn whole galaxy when a single silly nuke up Ronan's arse would have solved the problem at once. Earth without Avengers would still pwn him hard.
Hey stop the dude before he lands or you're all dead. Ok, copy that.
Meh. Impersonally nuking the big bad really isn’t a space opera thing and it likely would be horribly anti-climatic.

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy

Post by sonofccn » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:07 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Thing is, the whole idea of Gamora even walking out in the open on Xandar is totally retarded.
It's even aggraviated by the fact that when she's arrested, the guys have right in front of them a computer that gives them the entire shebang about her role and the link with Thanos and Ronan. At that moment in time, the seller who kicks Quill out knows who Ronan is, some kind of über Bin Laden. The prison population knows it, they immediately recognize her from a good distance the very moment Gomara steps inside the main courtyard of the Kyln prison.

Of course, Gamora just happens to be waiting outside of THE unique unimpressive reseller on Xandar (counts billions of people) and oddly enough, there's no fucking bounty put on her head by like half of the advanced species in that galaxy, which conveniently allows the writers to have the hunters focus on Quill instead. So Groot and Rocket just happen to get the memo about Quill being now tracked, but Gamora walks around without having to care the slightest. Huh, how nice!
She doesn't even wear the absolute minimally required disguise gear in order to precisely not look like goddamned Gamora. Nooo, she just goes to Xandar, THE planet Ronan has made no secret he intends to screw it big time, she doesn't even sport some fancy wig or make up and just happens to pop there, unhindered. We don't even see where the heck she landed her ship, but surely not anywhere close to where she conveniently met Quill.
Let's also assume, for the sake of it, that Quill's ship had a beacon on it.

So, logically, when Gamora's caught by Xandarian police forces, instead of, you know, treating her like a massive high profile terrorist and sending her to a most dirty place where shadowy intelligence agents will certainly know how to handle the green bitch, they just send her to some random prison like if she were a nobody.

It's terrible. It makes the character non-believable, as the writers paint a specific background full of serious implications for a character and rather conveniently totally ignore it minutes later. Good job fellas.

Let's not talk about Quill using a clearly ravager-ish ship to land on Xandar and not be spotted the moment he enters the atmopshere, or even sooner.


Working from a similar premise with Quill grabbing the orb and meeting Ronan's forces, but avoiding the rather lame fanfare tone of the beginning and making it clear that there's a clock ticking and Quill can't fuck around because we'd clearly get a sense that the one who comes first gets the loot, and Quill would be rather hasty instead of wandering around like if there were no time-pressure, we'd have the ability to resume with Quill going to Xandar ASAP and quickly do a good sale on the odd orb he picked. That, because the beginning of the movie didn't suck too much, so that clearly better version would be written so to somehow be more logical about how Gamora would have approached Quill, at first. Quill himself would be landing in a region of Xandar not being so open, queer and clean, but more slummish. Think downtown Boston, dark and all that. There Gamora would have used a couple more henchmen and ALL of them would have been in disguise and using great gear to that very specific purpose!
Quill's ship would have been tracked by a beacon he didn't spot anyway, this to allow us a nice excuse for Gamora's squad to enjoy a rough idea of where he'll be headed, and a much easier excuse to have all of them home on a rather well known stinky reseller.
Quill being a ravager and all, he would have to keep a low profile, but despite all his best efforts, he'd get spotted. We'd try to avoid having the plot solve this by having his rather non ravager-ish ship tracked by the Xandarian defenses. That would be lazy. Rather than that, we'd have him be double-crossed by someone who had a deal with authorities, or wanted to take both the 40K bounty and keep the orb. He'd be Quill's direct enemy in this place and perhaps for the whole movie, or at least a good half of it and probably return for a sequel.
Quill would only be spared from a caputre because of Gamora's unique abilities. But with the police on both's sixes now, they'd have to team up and find a way out together.
Perhaps the plot would also avoid making Gamora a direct lieutnant to Ronan, sparing us having to explain how a mass killer would suddenly be Quill's best (sex) friend.
Then we'd add Groot and Rocket who'd be the bounty hunters amongst way too many on this planet, but would happen to have a plant within Xandarian forces or something else giving them a head start. They'd still be sort of criminals as well so they couldn't afford being captured. It's a risky business but worth the money. At first they'd want to catch Quill and grab the bounty but get paid in a safe zone, but would come close to them and spot Gamora, and getting even more excited. Another closer encounter would pitch all four of them in a close quarters situation, againsts the Xandarian forces which would now be hunting them all.
Drax's addition to the team could come there, or he could be the pilot of the ship used by the other fours to leave the planet, or could have already been captured by Groot and Rocket, etc. Or he could be met later on.

The rest of the script would just be following the same recipe to totally ungay that creamy flick.

In the end, our five guys wouldn't be hailed as heroes and claimored openly by high dignitaries of the Nova Empire in play day, but still seen as criminals by many, although now offered a way to work undercover. They'd still have a ton of enemies, logically expected ones that is. They'd be a dirty team working for either the Nova Empire, perhaps a sub branch that specializes in murky activities, or another entity being totally independant of the Nova Emprie.
Same script would also have the decency to have someone else name this five guys band Guardians of the Galaxy, if it's really necessary to shove the title somewhere down the road.
Otherwise we'd gladly do without it.

This perhaps has vibes of A New Hope meats Fifth Element meats Sin City, but it would hardly be a bad point.
If you truly believe you can make a better movie Mr. O best of luck to you. I'd suggest putting efforts in getting an original script published rather than wasting time trying to "fix" a movie that was successful.

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:55 am

sonofccn wrote:If you truly believe you can make a better movie Mr. O best of luck to you. I'd suggest putting efforts in getting an original script published rather than wasting time trying to "fix" a movie that was successful.
Who told you I would like to fix this garbage? I must've spent like five to ten minutes writing the paragraphs you quoted as they came to me. Both to share ideas and to make a point, and there's nothing else to get from it.
That said, I have nothing against you so if you liked this movie, good for you. Perhaps you're the lucky one after all...

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:22 am

sonofccn wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:He's made clearly special at the end, which by that time is quite damn late to explain the thing that happens right at the beginning of the movie.
I spotted the "cargo" part, and the dude growls it so at first I thought it was some slang and saying he was [beep] but no, he says "he was cargo". He says something before but if it ain't subtitled, you can't get it. Bizarre words, dunno. Still, none of what I get from what he says makes Quill anything special. At best, he's cargo, which since he was kidnapped, happens to be logical. But at no point it explains why the hell him, which brings me to the initial qualm of why bothering to pick this boy up and no other one. That's the point. For the whole damned movie, it was a story of a guy, just a normal human, who happened to be part of all that because of a most far fetched, lazily penned introductory sequence.
That he was cargo explains why they were on Earth and why they kidnapped him which you previously argued were plot holes. Why he’s important enough for this or whom ordered it isn’t important and would only distract from the actual plot.
I just said it explains nothing. Being cargo is just a state, a condition, just as much as fish is cargo when picked in nets from oceans.
At that point the story was merely starting, and we already had our fair share of alien abductions and what have you. So the mind could really fly in all directions. Not to say that trailers already gave you a strong glimpse of the non-seriousness of the movie and its rather clownesque tone.
At the very best, you may think that Quill was picked off, and no one else, for a very specific reason, just like he could have been picked randomly. It's a 50/50 thing I guess. In the wrong 50, we're back to my point of a random kid being picked out of millions in a rather absurd way. It's supposed to be a simple movie and can't even manage to be simple when it's expected to be.
It's combined with other detrimental effects, like the ship just hovering there and magically revealing itself (ninja teleporation, I hate that shit). I already pointed out that the movie itself makes it clear those ships are nowhere silent, silent as not to be heard at night in the middle of a park when everything else around is dead silent or simply dead.
There's also the terrible convenience that the kid ran outside alone.
In the right direction.
And that the ship just happened to be there too.
It's an unelegant addition of extremely favourable odds (too much and too many already) that just set the tone for the liberties the writers are going to take for the whole movie.
First of all, it's barely more important. Super daddy is why Quill gets kidnapped in the first place, and then why Peter saves the day in a complete deux ex machina at the end. So you bet it would be a good thing to establish why this happens so conveniently

I don't remember saying that the kidnapping is the central piece of the movie. I'm saying it's part of the narrative and plays right at the beginning of the movie, so it can't be ignored.
It still clearly wasn't a distant backgroundish element of the plot, as you could equally say that this key part of the character and, huh, his backstory (precisely) was to be revealed to the audience... at the end.
It's mediocre storytelling, that's all. They attempted acrobatics and it failed. They wanted to play smart and build up to some revealation how he was picked up for delivery to daddy, but until all pieces made it logical at the end, it wasn't logical.


I guess we’ll just have to disagree on the importance of the kidnapping. My interpretation was that it was a necessary mechanism in order to explain why a man from contemporary Earth is doing in this space opera which it did effectively, Quill being taken from Earth and all, and is no longer important beyond that point. A mucguffin of plot as it were.
The problem lies in the execution. That they needed an excuse to get the kid out there in space isn't really the problem. It's about how it's done.
Now as for the alleged importance of Quill’s ancestry the burden would fall to you to prove it. There is nothing in the sequence of events which demands or requires one needs to have Quill’s dad in them in order to, briefly, touch an infinity gem. Ronin survived his contact, and much easier than Star Lord, and Drax, Rocket and Gamora all took a share of the destructive power and survived. Hell even the slave girl managed to survive a few seconds before she completely immolated.
We know crap about Ronan. His alienness might excuse his capacity to withstand the device a bit longer. The movie reveals him as literally sleeping within a pool of dark juice, so something strongly aludes to the dude being of a special status.
On the other hand, you happen to have a human who withstands the thing just because Mr Plot wants it, until Mr Plot reveals that the guy is half special only. The problem being that until this revelation, you're left to run with the data you have: just a man who pulls a deus ex machina by act of plot and because his awesomeness, his friends don't get disintegrated alive.
But if the movie had revealed his special nature earlier on, it couldn't have counted on the audience assuming it was merely observing the story of some random human, making the plot's obstacles more formidable to beat: they wouldn't be so if we knew early on that the guy has something inside of him that might allow him winning with more ease, thus spoiling the tension because it would feel like a cheat, easier for Quill.
So the writers kept the half-special "big reveal" for the end, but it doesn't wash the bitter taste, that of heroes winning at the end of that lame ass confrontation just because they're the heroes.
So on top of that, we're dealing with a severe miscalculation in delivery of plot elements. For a story to work, certain elements have to be delivered at the right moment.
To go back to ANH, you'll notice that Luke is never established to be special save for a very minute hint about his father's duties and potential abilities, and the whole movie doesn't pull some fantashit out of nowhere with Luke being picked because he is THE ONE or the same Luke cooking voodoo stuff because he's Force imbued. Nope. In fact the whole movie is built on the premise that Luke is enrolled in that adventure because he was unlucky to cross the path of those damned droids. The only hint at the odd link with the father and Obi-Wan knowing is properly established and has no influence on the rest. Even when he's told that his father was a Jedi Knight, the reliance on any kind of power can be totally put on Obi-Wan's bill, up to the final run in the trench.
I would have to disagree. Luke finding out his father was a jedi rather than a mundane freighter pilot by definition makes him special. It elevates him above the muggles and marks him for great things regardless if his abilities are literally in the blood or not. A standard staple to explain heroes, I believe, which dates back down through the history of story telling.
I said so that it makes him special, barely in fact, but it precisely stops right there as well. He goes back to square one as soon as he's supposedly elevated.
As I said, none of what happens is remotely linked to his father's potential super abilities, of which we know nothing about. He's not even given a statut of half rating whatsoever. We don't even know, by the time of ANH, if all Jedi have powers. We don't even know if the powers are innate, dormant or can be acquired by studying. Never the movie mocks the audience by lazily solving main narrative problems by the sole virtue of Luke being the son of a Jedi. Not even the torpedo finding its way into the Death Star core.
Actually Lucas was such at unease with it that he did remove old Vader ghost to put the Anakin ghost before the fall, precisely because it was too ambiguous. Admitedly, it was in Luke's inner circle since only he seemed to see the ghosts and the ways of the Force weren't clear at all as far the equivalent of "karma" went. For the rest of the galaxy, Vader was gone for good.
None of which changes that Vader was "redeemed" after a life time of very bad stuff and the audience was expected to accept this as a "good" thing. For fun scrub Vader’s name for any Nazi and imagining a journalist writing up a story like Lucas filmed. A bit silly isn’t it?
No, it's apples and oranges. What judges Vader is entirely different than who judges Gamora. On one side, you have the Force, perhaps even a biased projection of it going through Luke's own personnal spectrum, and we don't even know if it's Vader who's redeemed, or only the good that was inside him that's sort of "extracted".
Plus it's the Force that is involved, and TESB made it clear for the audience that it was definitely pagan in roots. The Force was everywhere, pantheistic. It was affected by the mass loss of life, while the Jewish/Christian/Muslim God (same bloke mind you) is detached from the Creation.
Thing is, in pagan lore, the notions of good and evil are extremely blurred. What can be considered to bring order (or chaos) to the core of the universe and its mechanics is really strange to the more basic considerations of mankind.
You really have to forget the nonsense of the prequels where Palpatine becomes a fighter and Anakin is some kind of Jesus, son of a Power with a will, with same Power using little squishy bits inside some people to let them use It in return.
ROTJ ends with the much flawed dark knight killing the insidious sorcerer (devious priest), and Luke did what he did to save what was good in his father. He cared about the good. Why would he want to save all that's related to the dark side of his father? The point clearly is about saving what's worth saving.
It was quite subtle but somehow comprehended decades ago, but as Lucas grew old and fat, he felt that he had to make the point easier to compute.
And there, in the latest edition, you SHOULD have gotten the point because it's right there, right in your face: Luke saved the good stuff of Anakin, which rather brutally stopped evolving once he kissed Palpatine's arse.

So it all works on a plane that's radically different and rather well more subtle than the shit in GotG.
In that latest crapfest, on the other hand, Gamora's case is a very straightforward and a mind boggingly simple question of politics at the most basic level, with her being judged by people. Countless billions of them.
There's no potential individual filter, no magic or unexplained ghosts, no mysterious ways involved.

Both cases are radically different on a quality scale.
What is Gamora but an extension of that same easy redemption logic. We don’t see any atrocities done by her, we know she’s good so therefore “good” characters treat her as good.
One certainly doesn’t have to like a protagonist centered morality but it isn’t unique or exclusive to GOTG.
I don't plan on comparing her to other potentially similar characters in other movies. I'm on Star Wars here, and it's night and day.
Oh, besides, they should really stop saying they saved the damn whole galaxy when a single silly nuke up Ronan's arse would have solved the problem at once. Earth without Avengers would still pwn him hard.
Hey stop the dude before he lands or you're all dead. Ok, copy that.
Meh. Impersonally nuking the big bad really isn’t a space opera thing and it likely would be horribly anti-climatic.
They had a nuke in Avengers and it worked well with the plot.
Stagate blew a nuke in Ra's face yet Ra certainly didn't have a tenth of Ronan's powers.
ID4 had the US fire a nuke at the city destroyer, to no avail. Then again, I make no secret of considering ID4 much superior, despite how terrible it was in several ways. At least when ID4 does action, there's tension and a heavy sense of despair and danger, plus real excitement.
If you want a finish you can be more familiar with, take Thor 2. Actually the end of GotG is rather displeasingly similar to Thor 2's, with the twirling smoke and all that, but Thor goes straight to the point, you don't have the writers trying to pull some shitty humour when it would utterly be out of place to begin with.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to rewatch Die Hard 1 & 3 to enjoy McLane mowing down enemies with style and proper humour. :)

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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy -----> it sucks, yes

Post by Lucky » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:31 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote: OK we understand you like a shitty movie with tons of special effects, no worries.
The real bad taste I had was whatever was left in my mouth after watching this.

I've become used to the question that tastes about humour are uneven amongst men, and like anything, they require training and honing in order to elevate the level of wit that will satiate one's mind, trained to laugh at finer material. Like arts, whiskey, etc.
What I endured in Guardians was something just as bad, albeit not as goofy, as the Jar Jar jokes in TPM.
1) I struck a nerve it seems. You sound like you thought your highly offensive post post was witty and clever. I was calling you out on your hypocrisy and bad taste, and it is something that is something I've been noticing for some time. Posts like that are against board rules anyway.


2) Really, if you want to be critical of a big budget movie at least choose flaws that exist. You're simply ragging on GOTG do to being popular and not to your questionable tastes rather then bad, and too lazy to write your own review. I really don't care that you can dig up bad reviews written by people who in many cases apparently haven't seen the movie because you can find just about anything on the net.

Maybe you just like Grim Derp 90s style dork era type stories?

Mr. Oragahn wrote:.Thing is, the whole idea of Gamora even walking out in the open on Xandar is totally retarded.
It's even aggraviated by the fact that when she's arrested, the guys have right in front of them a computer that gives them the entire shebang about her role and the link with Thanos and Ronan. At that moment in time, the seller who kicks Quill out knows who Ronan is, some kind of über Bin Laden. The prison population knows it, they immediately recognize her from a good distance the very moment Gomara steps inside the main courtyard of the Kyln prison.
1) Simply changing body language can make people think they are looking at is a different person from what I've heard, and she does nothing to draw attention to herself until she attacks Peter. It's not that different then any really world actor or criminal who who does the same thing. The Nova Empire does not come across as a police state.

This is perfectly reasonable for a super spy/assasian to bypass secerety measures, and remain undetected until they do something.

2) You're making assumptions with no evidence either way. We don't know if Gamora was being shadowed by the Nova Empire or not.

If a known terrorist tries to sneak into the capital of his/her targets it would not be unheard of to quietly follow them in order to see who they make contact with.

3) Given the Nova Corpse did not take action against Rocket and Groot, it is likely they did not want to cause a panic.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.Of course, Gamora just happens to be waiting outside of THE unique unimpressive reseller on Xandar (counts billions of people) and oddly enough, there's no fucking bounty put on her head by like half of the advanced species in that galaxy, which conveniently allows the writers to have the hunters focus on Quill instead. So Groot and Rocket just happen to get the memo about Quill being now tracked, but Gamora walks around without having to care the slightest. Huh, how nice!
1) When was Gamora scanned by anyone until after the Nova Corpse captures her?

2) Why should we assume Rocket was looking for legal bounties when going to the cops would get him arrested for his own crimes?

3) Rocket and Groot were looking on the galactic equivalent of the internet for what appear to be illegal bounties when the Ravagers posted a bounty on Peter, and just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

4) Yes, why would The Broker, a guy who deal with The Collector need anything more then a small shop to meet. He is an intermediary, and likely something akin to an elder of the universe like The Collector.

If your job is high end black market goods, are you going to draw attention to yourself in ways you don't want to?
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.She doesn't even wear the absolute minimally required disguise gear in order to precisely not look like goddamned Gamora. Nooo, she just goes to Xandar, THE planet Ronan has made no secret he intends to screw it big time, she doesn't even sport some fancy wig or make up and just happens to pop there, unhindered. We don't even see where the heck she landed her ship, but surely not anywhere close to where she conveniently met Quill.
That sounds like what Marilyn Monroe was said tp be able to do. It's said she could make people think she was someone else simply by changing how she walked
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.Let's also assume, for the sake of it, that Quill's ship had a beacon on it.
Just go with what was shown in the movie. Rocket and Groot were simply looking on the wrong website to get info on Gamora, wanted quick cash, and never scanned her.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.So, logically, when Gamora's caught by Xandarian police forces, instead of, you know, treating her like a massive high profile terrorist and sending her to a most dirty place where shadowy intelligence agents will certainly know how to handle the green bitch, they just send her to some random prison like if she were a nobody.
1) Gamora was sent to the nastiest prison the Nova Empire had.

2) You're making things up that we have no evidence of either way again. We don't know what happened between the arrest and the arrival at the prison. We can't know what happens during cuts.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.It's terrible. It makes the character non-believable, as the writers paint a specific background full of serious implications for a character and rather conveniently totally ignore it minutes later. Good job fellas.
You're complaints are based almost solely on things in your head.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.Let's not talk about Quill using a clearly ravager-ish ship to land on Xandar and not be spotted the moment he enters the atmopshere, or even sooner.
The Ravagers use a certain ship design so they must be the only ones to use that design? The Ravagers are a tiny band of pirates/mercenaries/criminals, they aren't likely to be using unique designs like the Nova or Kree Empires simply for budgetary reasons.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.Working from a similar premise with Quill grabbing the orb and meeting Ronan's forces, but avoiding the rather lame fanfare tone of the beginning and making it clear that there's a clock ticking and Quill can't fuck around because we'd clearly get a sense that the one who comes first gets the loot, and Quill would be rather hasty instead of wandering around like if there were no time-pressure, we'd have the ability to resume with Quill going to Xandar ASAP and quickly do a good sale on the odd orb he picked. That, because the beginning of the movie didn't suck too much, so that clearly better version would be written so to somehow be more logical about how Gamora would have approached Quill, at first. Quill himself would be landing in a region of Xandar not being so open, queer and clean, but more slummish. Think downtown Boston, dark and all that. There Gamora would have used a couple more henchmen and ALL of them would have been in disguise and using great gear to that very specific purpose!
Peter didn't know what the orb was, and didn't know Ronan and Thanos were after it, and that is why he was just casually looting some ruins that had been there for thousands of years.

The only reason Peter was in any hurry was because the Ravagers found out he was double crossing they which results with them placing a bounty on a website, and that leads to three way brawl involving Rocket, Groot, Gamor, and Peter.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.Quill's ship would have been tracked by a beacon he didn't spot anyway, this to allow us a nice excuse for Gamora's squad to enjoy a rough idea of where he'll be headed, and a much easier excuse to have all of them home on a rather well known stinky reseller.
Who needs a tracking device what the Ravagers can just post a bounty on a website, and then let some bounty hunters like Groot and Rocket do the work for them?
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.Quill being a ravager and all, he would have to keep a low profile, but despite all his best efforts, he'd get spotted. We'd try to avoid having the plot solve this by having his rather non ravager-ish ship tracked by the Xandarian defenses. That would be lazy. Rather than that, we'd have him be double-crossed by someone who had a deal with authorities, or wanted to take both the 40K bounty and keep the orb. He'd be Quill's direct enemy in this place and perhaps for the whole movie, or at least a good half of it and probably return for a sequel.
Funny how this is what happened in the movie.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.Quill would only be spared from a caputre because of Gamora's unique abilities. But with the police on both's sixes now, they'd have to team up and find a way out together.
Why? This sounds rather easy to do badly, and you need to introduce Drax.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.Perhaps the plot would also avoid making Gamora a direct lieutnant to Ronan, sparing us having to explain how a mass killer would suddenly be Quill's best (sex) friend.
Peter was basically raised by thieves and killers. Heck, Peter himself is basically a thief and a killer.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.Then we'd add Groot and Rocket who'd be the bounty hunters amongst way too many on this planet, but would happen to have a plant within Xandarian forces or something else giving them a head start. They'd still be sort of criminals as well so they couldn't afford being captured. It's a risky business but worth the money. At first they'd want to catch Quill and grab the bounty but get paid in a safe zone, but would come close to them and spot Gamora, and getting even more excited. Another closer encounter would pitch all four of them in a close quarters situation, againsts the Xandarian forces which would now be hunting them all.
1) So far I'm seeing notiong that would be a better story.

2) Part of the running gag is that Peter is the one with the shortest rap sheet and mostly petty crimes at that, but he becomes the leader of the gang. The GOTG the group is based on is basically a dirty dozen type group formed during the Annihilation shoreline.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.Drax's addition to the team could come there, or he could be the pilot of the ship used by the other fours to leave the planet, or could have already been captured by Groot and Rocket, etc. Or he could be met later on.
Drax's thing is to be the strong man, and kill things
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.The rest of the script would just be following the same recipe to totally ungay that creamy flick.
???
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.In the end, our five guys wouldn't be hailed as heroes and claimored openly by high dignitaries of the Nova Empire in play day, but still seen as criminals by many, although now offered a way to work undercover. They'd still have a ton of enemies, logically expected ones that is. They'd be a dirty team working for either the Nova Empire, perhaps a sub branch that specializes in murky activities, or another entity being totally independant of the Nova Emprie.
At the end of the actual movie, Peter and company are given a Peter's ship and politely asked to leave the planet and stay out of trouble after having their criminal record expunged.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:.This perhaps has vibes of A New Hope meats Fifth Element meats Sin City, but it would hardly be a bad point.
Rather amusing that you're being overly critical of GOTG to the point of making stuff up as stated above, but are holding three equally if not worse plot hole ridden movies as a higher standard.

Lucky
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Re: Guardians of the Galaxy -----> no it doesn't suck

Post by Lucky » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:08 pm

sonofccn wrote: More seriously I found the film enjoyable. Not Citizen Kane but a nice, easy, entertaining popflick where I can sit back, relax and enjoy some heroics, pretty visuals and action sequences while escaping the humdrum world for a couple of hours. Not unlike Star Wars in that regard.
1) Citizen Cain is a horribly done movie. The entire plot revolves around Cain's last words, but no one was there to hear Cain's last words making everything after impossible, and such a flaw would have been easy to fix too.

2) A movie like GOTG is meant to entertain first and foremost, and most people who see it seem to think it does its job well enough.

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