BSG Epic Montage
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:36 pm
Starfleet Jedi Forum
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http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6542
Shame the only thing good about the show was the VFX.Mr. Oragahn wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwkYaxkDO3c
1) The basic idea is bad from the get go. "Let's take a light hearted goofy fun show, and remake it to be as grim, dark, and stupid(in a bad way) as possible." NUBSG was BSG in name only really.Mr. Oragahn wrote: What's didn't you do not disliked? :D
I see. Nothing that can be done there.Lucky wrote:1) The basic idea is bad from the get go. "Let's take a light hearted goofy fun show, and remake it to be as grim, dark, and stupid(in a bad way) as possible." NUBSG was BSG in name only really.Mr. Oragahn wrote: What's didn't you do not disliked? :D
I want my Sci-Fi to be fun.
2) You ended up hope everyone would just get killed off.
Cylons had a somewhat inferior military tech, and their ships were considerably weaker.3) Nothing the Cylons do, makes sense. Why bother with the convoluted backdoor program when you can basically use your FTl drive to appear in the center of the target?
They went through a lot of events which put both sides in positions wherein they had to reconsider a great many things. Not to say that, anyway, most humans didn't show any will to forgive, but it's not like there was much they could do.Why would they think the humans would just forgive and forget after you spend years trying to commit genocide?
If you toss out everything that made BSG fun and unique, why use the name?Mr. Oragahn wrote: I see. Nothing that can be done there.
I'm calling shenanigans. You are creating a false dilemma.Mr. Oragahn wrote: Cylons had a somewhat inferior military tech, and their ships were considerably weaker.
They were better tailored for a quick strike. But their plan also meant that they'd reveal their larger existence and true intents to humans, and if they were to fail to destroy them, they'd only make things worse. This time, the humans would use all resources at their disposal to track the Cylons everywhere possible, no matter how long it would take.
The Cylons might jump close to their target, but they'd be incapable to pin them all down.
The Colonial fleet was constantly active, proof of the number of ships available and already scrambled, and the fact that when Basestars jumped close to planets, they were already flying amidst Battlestars.
Add to that the impressive overall update and the constant maintainance on major battlecarriers to have them operate under the best parameters possible. Not to count the recent construction of superior ships like Pegasus, with better computer systems allowing for much longer FTL jumps, clearly proving that the humans still were on their guards and wanted to have the best tools to strike back at any time. Plus the patrolling of the red line.
If any Cylon would be captured, there would be a risk of having them, no matter how, provide a snippet of information on the Cylon Colony.
A survival of the army and an incapacity of the Cylons to properly complete the bombardment of the colonial installations would leave way too many survivors having access to assets that would allow them to retaliate.
It's even worse because you wouldn't fool them twice and that time they'd probably make sure to take into account the superior FTL drives the Cylons and hide and make mobile their bases and colonial outposts.
In other words, without the CPL, the Cylons wouldn't properly complete their mission, lose way too many ships and actually end having robots be captured.
Considering what we've seen in Caprica and Blood & Chrome, it's quite clear that the Colonials had enough tech to extract precious information from any Cylon they could capture.
And trying to force the humans to live side by side with them was stupid.Mr. Oragahn wrote: They went through a lot of events which put both sides in positions wherein they had to reconsider a great many things. Not to say that, anyway, most humans didn't show any will to forgive, but it's not like there was much they could do.
They barely had the means of survival, they couldn't exactly engage a vengeful military campaign.
Because the premise is strictly the same but the style is different. It's a remake, a new take on an old story, and it's done a lot today, just like every illustrator will give you a different painting of the exact same location or scene.Lucky wrote:If you toss out everything that made BSG fun and unique, why use the name?Mr. Oragahn wrote: I see. Nothing that can be done there.
I'm calling shenanigans. You are creating a false dilemma.Mr. Oragahn wrote: Cylons had a somewhat inferior military tech, and their ships were considerably weaker.
They were better tailored for a quick strike. But their plan also meant that they'd reveal their larger existence and true intents to humans, and if they were to fail to destroy them, they'd only make things worse. This time, the humans would use all resources at their disposal to track the Cylons everywhere possible, no matter how long it would take.
The Cylons might jump close to their target, but they'd be incapable to pin them all down.
The Colonial fleet was constantly active, proof of the number of ships available and already scrambled, and the fact that when Basestars jumped close to planets, they were already flying amidst Battlestars.
Add to that the impressive overall update and the constant maintainance on major battlecarriers to have them operate under the best parameters possible. Not to count the recent construction of superior ships like Pegasus, with better computer systems allowing for much longer FTL jumps, clearly proving that the humans still were on their guards and wanted to have the best tools to strike back at any time. Plus the patrolling of the red line.
If any Cylon would be captured, there would be a risk of having them, no matter how, provide a snippet of information on the Cylon Colony.
A survival of the army and an incapacity of the Cylons to properly complete the bombardment of the colonial installations would leave way too many survivors having access to assets that would allow them to retaliate.
It's even worse because you wouldn't fool them twice and that time they'd probably make sure to take into account the superior FTL drives the Cylons and hide and make mobile their bases and colonial outposts.
In other words, without the CPL, the Cylons wouldn't properly complete their mission, lose way too many ships and actually end having robots be captured.
Considering what we've seen in Caprica and Blood & Chrome, it's quite clear that the Colonials had enough tech to extract precious information from any Cylon they could capture.
Once on site. However, the precision of the jump isn't certain and the behaviour of such jumps inside a structure, risking to reintegrate space where there's already plenty of matter (and Battlestars are cramped) has never been established as being risk-free or even doable.(CENSOR), raiders could even jump inside of battlestars.
What makes you think they shouldn't have lacked anything?If you lack the resources to win, which the cylons should not have lacked, you stay hidden if you are scared.
If anything, it seems the plan had more to do with bringing back the Five Ones to complete the program for complete resurrection.(CENSOR),The Cylons decided to kill all humans do to the humans wanting to find out what the Cylons were up to because the Cylons ignored decades of peace overtures.
Did you watch the show or something? Because that's quite easily covered in it, but not at the beginning. Since you really hate it, I doubt you've watched anything.And trying to force the humans to live side by side with them was stupid.Mr. Oragahn wrote: They went through a lot of events which put both sides in positions wherein they had to reconsider a great many things. Not to say that, anyway, most humans didn't show any will to forgive, but it's not like there was much they could do.
They barely had the means of survival, they couldn't exactly engage a vengeful military campaign.
But there was nothing new about NBSG's style as the story had already been told that way under different names for thousands of years. The story has repeatedly happened in real life.Mr. Oragahn wrote: Because the premise is strictly the same but the style is different. It's a remake, a new take on an old story, and it's done a lot today, just like every illustrator will give you a different painting of the exact same location or scene.
Still Lord of the Rings, Superman, etc.
You're missing the point.Mr. Oragahn wrote: Once on site. However, the precision of the jump isn't certain and the behaviour of such jumps inside a structure, risking to reintegrate space where there's already plenty of matter (and Battlestars are cramped) has never been established as being risk-free or even doable.
Not to say that you take the risk of having Raiders damaged and captured.
Basically, again, the CPL was most necessary for an unilateral strike in space and against ground targets, with the full range of abilities allowed by mixed use of Raiders, Heavy Raiders and Basestars.
Plus a Basestar carries something like 250 Raiders I think, give or take. Even if each Raider had like four 50~500 KT nuke, you only get 50~500 MT to spread on an entire planet.
Which is to say, not enough to guarantee eradication without the chance of military retaliation.
Multiply by perhaps a hundred Basestars, more or less.
Woopteedoo, 50 GT for all the colonies, bases, outposts, and we haven't even begun trying to blast those damned Battlestars and their support fleets out of the sky.
Ships which have been known to handle nukes a bit better than cities.
And we don't even brush the surface of the nuke count problem. That is, the fact that not all ships had a vast stock of nukes. The fact that the nuking of Caprica itself didn't torch the planet.
1) Space is big, and there is lots of useful stuff floating around in it.Mr. Oragahn wrote: What makes you think they shouldn't have lacked anything?
You cannot arbitrarily increase the number of assets just like that, and as they were limited, it would have been with limited ressources that the Cylons would have had to deal with retaliation from Colonies which never forgot about the enemy and were constantly upgrading their military assets.
Not seeing it from what I saw the Cylons do in the show. The show wouldn't have lasted a bleeping season had the cylons wanted that.Mr. Oragahn wrote: If anything, it seems the plan had more to do with bringing back the Five Ones to complete the program for complete resurrection.
And to do that, all humans had to be destroyed so eventually those fathers and mothers of the clone models would be brought back to life within the Cylon ranks.
I must have only caught the bad episodes then, and then gave up on the show. The wiki having just checked seems to support my view of the cylons for some reason.Mr. Oragahn wrote: Did you watch the show or something? Because that's quite easily covered in it, but not at the beginning. Since you really hate it, I doubt you've watched anything.
So I equally doubt you could make any properly informed commentary on material you know little about.
Or you've watched four seasons of a show you vomit.
Which is rather... worrying.
Have you paid attention to the number of variants we had for, say, Battleship Yamato by now?Lucky wrote:But there was nothing new about NBSG's style as the story had already been told that way under different names for thousands of years. The story has repeatedly happened in real life.Mr. Oragahn wrote: Because the premise is strictly the same but the style is different. It's a remake, a new take on an old story, and it's done a lot today, just like every illustrator will give you a different painting of the exact same location or scene.
Still Lord of the Rings, Superman, etc.
A remake really should not be in name only.
That's as faulty as it can get. You assume they can arbitrarily augment numbers, just like that.You're missing the point.Mr. Oragahn wrote: Once on site. However, the precision of the jump isn't certain and the behaviour of such jumps inside a structure, risking to reintegrate space where there's already plenty of matter (and Battlestars are cramped) has never been established as being risk-free or even doable.
Not to say that you take the risk of having Raiders damaged and captured.
Basically, again, the CPL was most necessary for an unilateral strike in space and against ground targets, with the full range of abilities allowed by mixed use of Raiders, Heavy Raiders and Basestars.
Plus a Basestar carries something like 250 Raiders I think, give or take. Even if each Raider had like four 50~500 KT nuke, you only get 50~500 MT to spread on an entire planet.
Which is to say, not enough to guarantee eradication without the chance of military retaliation.
Multiply by perhaps a hundred Basestars, more or less.
Woopteedoo, 50 GT for all the colonies, bases, outposts, and we haven't even begun trying to blast those damned Battlestars and their support fleets out of the sky.
Ships which have been known to handle nukes a bit better than cities.
And we don't even brush the surface of the nuke count problem. That is, the fact that not all ships had a vast stock of nukes. The fact that the nuking of Caprica itself didn't torch the planet.
There was no reason for the Cylons to not have the numbers needed to wipe the 12 Colonies out.
What makes you think they were not stockpiled? And, clearly, you have it wrong. They didn't plan any war in the slightest way. They planned an alpha strike to achieve an unilateral flash homicide over all Colonies.There is something wrong if you plan a war, but do not stockpile the supplies you need.
Where is the slightest evidence that they had all time and resources on their hands praytell?The Cylons had all the time and resources they needed to win without the back door, but failed to make use of them.
1. Which applies to Colonials.1) Space is big, and there is lots of useful stuff floating around in it.Mr. Oragahn wrote: What makes you think they shouldn't have lacked anything?
You cannot arbitrarily increase the number of assets just like that, and as they were limited, it would have been with limited ressources that the Cylons would have had to deal with retaliation from Colonies which never forgot about the enemy and were constantly upgrading their military assets.
2) The cylons had at least one Earth like planet. That is a lot of resources for a space based race.
3) The cylons are a machine race., and have all the advantages of being machines
4) The cylons were the ones making the time table.
If the cylons attacked before they were ready then there is something very wrong with them because they had time, numbers, and resources to work with. The cylons had more then enough resources, numbers, supplies, and time to take down the twelve colonies without the back door
Not knowing how a show will end isn't a problem. Very few shows are created with all things planned from the beginning. So that's silly criticism.Not seeing it from what I saw the Cylons do in the show. The show wouldn't have lasted a bleeping season had the cylons wanted that.Mr. Oragahn wrote: If anything, it seems the plan had more to do with bringing back the Five Ones to complete the program for complete resurrection.
And to do that, all humans had to be destroyed so eventually those fathers and mothers of the clone models would be brought back to life within the Cylon ranks.
The Rag Tag Fleet survived because of authorial fiat, A.K.A. bad writing. It really seems like the writers had little idea as to what they wanted to do, and made stuff up as they went.
Your view?I must have only caught the bad episodes then, and then gave up on the show. The wiki having just checked seems to support my view of the cylons for some reason.Mr. Oragahn wrote: Did you watch the show or something? Because that's quite easily covered in it, but not at the beginning. Since you really hate it, I doubt you've watched anything.
So I equally doubt you could make any properly informed commentary on material you know little about.
Or you've watched four seasons of a show you vomit.
Which is rather... worrying.
03-13-14
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Cylon_Psychology