Review of scifights.net Federation vs. Empire: Logistics

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359
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Re: Review of scifights.net Federation vs. Empire: Logistics

Post by 359 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:14 pm

2046 wrote:While not explicitly stated canonically (yet), it is commonly believed. There may even be a reference in the radio plays (not to the replacement of clones specifically, but of stormtrooper being a job a guy could get).

It can also be argued simply due to the varying heights of original trilogy stormtroopers, along with different voices for them. In other words, if they're clones, then they would be more like Cylons in the sense of there being multiple copies of multiple models.

For whatever it might be worth, Star Wars: Rebels will tread this ground . . . its actual canon status is up in the air at the moment, but:
Hidalgo noted, “We can finally settle the debate between what is the difference between a Clone Trooper and a Stormtrooper,” saying that they were specifically culling from George Lucas’ ideas and that while he wasn’t directly involved in Rebels, they were using many things he’d said about this era. “Clone Troopers basically stopped production” after the Clone Wars ended, said Hidalgo. With Stormtroopers, “They’re citizens that volunteered.” Hidalgo noted that in Lucas’ mind, interestingly, “The lab grown Clone Troopers had too much individuality,” ultimately, and the Emperor decided, “You can find better loyalty from fervent patriots who volunteered.”
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/13/ ... the-empire

Some points running alongside the above could be said to have been teased in TCW, but that's the realm of conjecture.
Well that will be interesting to find out, in about nine months.

Mike DiCenso wrote:In response to that, I'd point out the TCW episode "Supply Lines" that clearly shows the mighty Republic Venators dangerously running out of fuel and the troops on the surface running out of supplies and ammunition during the initial opening fighting of the Battle of Ryloth. This is occurring in well-charted space, and there should be no excuse for the Republic when it comes to resupplying it's forces, if we go by the Young/Saxtonian view of Star Wars.
This is an interesting thing to mention. Both for its obvious limitations of Republic ship operating range and time, but also for the necessity of maintaining space superiority during an invasion. If one cannot hold space during an invasion one's forces are going to be cut off from fresh supplies for a long period of time.

Lucky
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Re: Review of scifights.net Federation vs. Empire: Logistics

Post by Lucky » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:50 pm

Mike DiCenso. wrote: And once again we have clear cut evidence that Brian cherrypicks his sources to reach his predetermined conclusion. That's why the guy uses the two ICS books he falls back on time and again along with the TNG TM: they're his comfort fall back in the advent things start to challenge his assumptions. The Systems Commonwealth win against the almighty Galactic Empire? No way! Quick! Get the ROTS ICS out and reference millions of Separatist ships! Whew! That was close... now it's more of a tie.
-Mike
The AOTC ICS and ROTS ICS both list some rather low numbers, but Brian like most who quote the book pretend those numbers aren't there even though those numbers tend to be the most likely to be supported in the movies and TV shows.

AOTC ICS Page: 23
Hyperdrive: class 0.6; range 250,000 light-years fully fuelled


ROTS ICS Page: 4
Hyperdrive: class 1.0; 60,000 light year effective range

Lucky
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Re: Review of scifights.net Federation vs. Empire: Logistics

Post by Lucky » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:06 pm

359. wrote: Brian comments that in VOY: "Paralax", the second episode of the series, Voyager is already having power problems. He argues that this is indicative of the ship lacking any range. However this is not the case, in the first episode VOY: "Caretaker" Voyager was established to have suffered significant damage from its trip to the Delta Quadrant including a fracture in the warp core and probably much more.
There is also the fact that Voyager was not fully crewed or fully stocked when it left Deep Space Nine. It didn't even have the Arrow Shuttle mounted yet It was expected to be going on the proverbial 3 hour tour as part of its shake down cruise.

Seven of Nine was able to improve the efficiency of Voyager's Bussard Collectors by 23% in Voy: "Unforgettable"

I doubt Voyager was actually finished yet as it seems to lack the Aero Shuttle

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Aeroshuttle

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Re: Review of scifights.net Federation vs. Empire: Logistics

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:52 am

Lucky wrote:Wasn't Han Solo planning on taking a week or two for a round trip from Tatooine to Alderaan and back?
In the ANH novelization Han tells Jabba he'll be back with the money in three weeks:


Again the sardonic smile. "As you say, I'am too valuable to fry. But I've got a charter now and I can pay you back, plus a little extra. I just need some more time. I can give you a thousand on account, the rest in three weeks."

- ANH novelization, page 108 of the paperback edition

Just a few pages before that Han tells Luke and Ben to be at Docking bay 94 "first thing in the morning" as well, so when they left was even on a different day.
Lucky wrote:The AOTC ICS and ROTS ICS both list some rather low numbers, but Brian like most who quote the book pretend those numbers aren't there even though those numbers tend to be the most likely to be supported in the movies and TV shows.

AOTC ICS Page: 23
Hyperdrive: class 0.6; range 250,000 light-years fully fuelled


ROTS ICS Page: 4
Hyperdrive: class 1.0; 60,000 light year effective range
Those are still numbers on the large side of it considering that first one is basically enough to literally go from one end of GAFFA (the 120,000 light year EU version) to the other and back without refueling, and other one is halfway across it. Given how Brian Young and Saxtonites in general view SW hyperdrive, that means that a SW ship could zip around the 100 k ly Milky Way Galaxy with near impunity in a matter of hours or days, or months at most. Traveling around the 8,000 ly Federation would then be by extension trival since a class 0.6 drive would allow them to loop it over 31 times before refueling. Of course the whole issue with hyperlanes that was brought up in the TCW movie killed that. But at the time the ROTS ICS was written, it wasn't that clear, and any mention of hyperlanes and their importance to hyperspace travel in the EU was often overlooked.
-Mike

Lucky
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Re: Review of scifights.net Federation vs. Empire: Logistics

Post by Lucky » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:39 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:
In the ANH novelization Han tells Jabba he'll be back with the money in three weeks:


Again the sardonic smile. "As you say, I'am too valuable to fry. But I've got a charter now and I can pay you back, plus a little extra. I just need some more time. I can give you a thousand on account, the rest in three weeks."
- ANH novelization, page 108 of the paperback edition

Just a few pages before that Han tells Luke and Ben to be at Docking bay 94 "first thing in the morning" as well, so when they left was even on a different day.
That was what I was thinking of. It certainly seems to cap hyperdrive speeds, or art least makes them variable depending on various factors.
Mike DiCenso wrote:
Those are still numbers on the large side of it considering that first one is basically enough to literally go from one end of GAFFA (the 120,000 light year EU version) to the other and back without refueling, and other one is halfway across it. Given how Brian Young and Saxtonites in general view SW hyperdrive, that means that a SW ship could zip around the 100 k ly Milky Way Galaxy with near impunity in a matter of hours or days, or months at most. Traveling around the 8,000 ly Federation would then be by extension trival since a class 0.6 drive would allow them to loop it over 31 times before refueling. Of course the whole issue with hyperlanes that was brought up in the TCW movie killed that. But at the time the ROTS ICS was written, it wasn't that clear, and any mention of hyperlanes and their importance to hyperspace travel in the EU was often overlooked.
-Mike
No, they are rather small numbers of hyper jumps as there are a limited number of places a ship like a Stardestroyer can refuel, and fuel in Star Wars seems odd rare.

I was thinking about SW:TCW: Supply lines and SW:TCW: The Zilo Best.

In "Supply Lines", Republic warships run out of fuel during combat, run out of supplies on the ground, but Ryloth seems to be a strategically and tactically important world. important. There doesn't appear to be anywhere to refuel a a large ship let a lone a Stardestroyer at Ryloth, and to make things worse, Toydaria was needed by the Republic as a stop over to deliver supplies to Ryltoh.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Supply_Lines

In "The Zilo Best", the Republic needs to mine fuel from Malastare, or the Republic will run out of fuel for its army. One planet being so critical would imply that what ever is being used as fuel in Star Wars is rare.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Zillo_Beast

+++++

I was under the impression that Hyperlanes had been in the Star Wars mythos for a while
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperlane

+++++

Something being over looked does not make it any less relevant. Even in the first release of Episode 4, there were notable limitation for a hyperdrive as Han Solo was honestly more worried about crashing into things while using the hyperdrive then he was about the Stardestroyers chasing him.

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