View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:43 pm



Reply to topic  [ 83 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
The second nuTrek movie : Into Dorkness 
Author Message
Admiral
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Posts: 6822
Location: Paradise Mountain
Reply with quote
Jedi Master Spock wrote:
Third, even if the admiral is searching for casus belli for a shooting war with the Klingons, launching an illegal mission to Qo'noS is a crap plan. After all, nearly every line starship captain and officer would swiftly identify those orders as illegal and liable to start a war. We saw evidence of that in how every Starfleet officer who isn't Kirk or the admiral reacted to those orders. Scotty even resigned, and with anything less than Kirk's cult of personality among the bridge crew, the rest of the officers aboard ship probably would have followed suit. Check three for safety.


Ironically enough, that made Kirk as dangerous as Khan. Feeling superior, not bound to orders, regulations and all the moral principles which, in theory, were the basis of the Federation's code of conduct. Barely any different than warmongering admiral Alexander Marcus; being reckless, aggressive and presomptuous as to take the chance to start a war just over a question of vengeance and will for bloddshed. In Perdition's flames indeed.
Khan looks like an abused nice buddy in comparison, in that movie.


Last edited by Mr. Oragahn on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:14 pm
Profile
Admiral
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Posts: 6822
Location: Paradise Mountain
Reply with quote
For some untold reason I jumped back into the movie and started watching entire sections of it. Then at some point I was like damn, this looks and sounds more like Star Wars than Trek. The style, visuals, music even!
So after following some Trek clips at random, I decided to check out some pulled out of the latest Trek movie and read some people's reactions. Insightful, contrary to many comment sections on YT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Ca9ybf63k

I lol'd when I read that commentary:

NorthwestNinja wrote:
1:52 aaand cue the Star Wars music, 1:58 and the Star Wars style of scene transition, 1:59 Star Wars style planet approach shot, 2:06 and here we have the classic cockpit interior shot complete with R2-D2 like computer noises in the background, and similar instrument screen colors and fonts, 2:10 another exterior approach shot where an X-Wing would stand in easily... also at 2:20... and the music just keeps evoking John Williams. My goodness Abrams you really wanted to be working on something else, didn't you? Haha.


"Yes, that's Dagobah, Artoo ... looks a little grim doesn't it ..."


Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:15 pm
Profile
Admiral
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Posts: 6822
Location: Paradise Mountain
Reply with quote
...

Was Khan supposed to be a bad guy in that movie or what?

The guy was pretty much blackmailed and betrayed by the top of the UFP. He had no reason to give a damn about Kirk and all perfect reasons to despise them and the UFP.
As far as he was concerned, Kirk was just the admiral's pet, on a mission he knew would have never been sanctionned officially. It was all cape and dagger stuff and he had no reason to trust him and his crew. It was also perfectly clear that at the slightest flinch of the finger, we'd be put dead or back into a cell.
His violence was not excessive either, just in line with his superhuman abilities and intellect.
Hell, the plot was so screwed that they even made him lose by being nice and naïve.
He even was having fun during the ship-to-ship space trip. Nice fella.

What's even worse is that the movie never spends time to speak about the reason these guys were put into those tubes. If you've never seen any previous Trek movie or episode, you're just not going to be tainted by any bias against Khan.

He was also made particularily tougher and stronger in this timeline. Superblood aside, the strength demonstrated by alt-Khan was, I think, quite leaps above that of the original Khan. Kirk in the prime timeline could have never won against that guy. Not even with the help of a club. Not even with breathing a lil' bit of knockout gas (which didn't happen as far as Khan was concerned iirc).


Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:09 pm
Profile
Security Officer

Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:49 pm
Posts: 5723
Reply with quote
Khan did have all those abilities, except the regenerating blood:

Khan easily disarms Kirk and breaks the phaser:
Image
Image

Khan rather effortlessly lifts Chekov (in space suit) up:
Image

There is a hint of regeneration, if not high stamina and other abilities as noted in TOS' "Space Seed":

KIRK: Bones?

MCCOY: He'll live.

KIRK: My compliments.

MCCOY: No, I'm good, but not that good. There's something inside this man that refuses to accept death. Look at that. Even as he is now, his heart valve action has twice the power of yours and mine. Lung efficiency is fifty percent better.
(McGivers enters)


Intellect:

KHAN: Captain, I wonder if I could have something to read during my convalescence. I was once an engineer of sorts. I would be most interested in studying the technical manuals on your vessel.

KIRK: Yes, I understand. You have two hundred years of catching up to do.
KHAN: Precisely.


Later Khan reveals how much he knows of the Enterprise operations by setting the self-destruct in Engineering:

(Khan is working controls and listening to the intercom messages.)

SPOCK [OC]: Captain, acknowledge. Unable to flood Engineering section. I suspect

SCOTT [OC]: This is Scott. Captain's headed for the Engineering section. I'll follow in case

SPOCK [OC]: Negative. We must retake the vessel while the anesthesia lasts. Meet me in the Armoury. I'm blowing it clear first. Spock out.
(Kirk dashes into Engineering and straight into Khan, who easily disarms him then crushes the phaser. Then an alarm beeps.)

KHAN: If I understood your manuals, that's an overload in progress. Your ship flares up like an exploding sun within minutes.


Strength levels:

KHAN:I have five times your strength. You're no match for me.

And of course Khan and his merry band took over and operated the refit-style U.S.S. Reliant with little trouble. So yeah, most or all of it was there, just not as heavily showcased as it was in Into Darkness.
-Mike


Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:58 pm
Profile
Admiral
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Posts: 6822
Location: Paradise Mountain
Reply with quote
You forgot the part about Khan easily goes down when clubbed thrice by a man five times weaker.

Quite apples and oranges against überSpock and the use of Vulcan fingery voodoo (twice), smashed in the face with the equivalent of a club (several times) and squarely hit at point blank range with a series of stunning bolts from Uhura's gun.

Other than this little technicality, anything to say about the rest of the post? :)


Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:46 pm
Profile
Jedi Master

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm
Posts: 2239
Reply with quote
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
You forgot the part about Khan easily goes down when clubbed thrice by a man five times weaker.

Quite apples and oranges against überSpock and the use of Vulcan fingery voodoo (twice), smashed in the face with the equivalent of a club (several times) and squarely hit at point blank range with a series of stunning bolts from Uhura's gun.

Other than this little technicality, anything to say about the rest of the post? :)

And did Khan have time to fully recover from his Cryo nap?

Appearently there may have been some scenes that got cut.
http://io9.com/the-star-trek-into-darkn ... 1535711446


Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:28 am
Profile
Admiral
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Posts: 6822
Location: Paradise Mountain
Reply with quote
Lucky wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
You forgot the part about Khan easily goes down when clubbed thrice by a man five times weaker.

Quite apples and oranges against überSpock and the use of Vulcan fingery voodoo (twice), smashed in the face with the equivalent of a club (several times) and squarely hit at point blank range with a series of stunning bolts from Uhura's gun.

Other than this little technicality, anything to say about the rest of the post? :)

And did Khan have time to fully recover from his Cryo nap?

Appearently there may have been some scenes that got cut.
http://io9.com/the-star-trek-into-darkn ... 1535711446


Deleted scenes don't matter, and if it took time for prime-Khan to recover, then that's another sign that he's clearly an inferior beast right there, since nuKhan heals and revives shit and torments as soon as someone flicks a switch or plants a needle.

- Sick girl on terminal phase: small quantity of blood does wonders within seconds. Khan is literally chokefull of that blood.
- Dead tribble: Bones plants his needle to test the fantastic blood taken from that Joe Smith guy they have in custody, by the end of the movie the tribble is ALIVE!! Couple hours at most?
- Kirk : two weeks after dying from radiation, which means his entire body, from the cellular level down to strands of DNA, was literally breaking apart, he's back on foot. Woot!

Besides, when people are removed from the cryotube, they're in very good shape. So they don't have much to recover from already.

Back to nuKhan: right in the middle of a battle, the guy deals with no less than two Vulcan grips when a single one, in short duration, is more than enough to knock out any human. He quickly recovers and continues to punch and leap. So I consider it doesn't take much time for him to get back on feet either.


Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:46 am
Profile
Admiral
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Posts: 6822
Location: Paradise Mountain
Reply with quote
Two big Trek movies and so little nerdy analysis going on here.
Are the usual old Trek boards equally uninterested in doing deep autopsy of those latest movies?
After all we're one movie short of Star Wars' old trilogy and god knows how much stuff has been written about them on the versus side of things!


Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:48 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 83 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software.