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The second nuTrek movie : Into Dorkness 
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Admiral
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So, has anyone seen the trailers, featurettes and other stuff yet?

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/star-tre ... 36233.html

It's amazing how I just couldn't care less. All you see is some kind of bad guy (OMG U DONT SAYIN ITS KHAAAAAN!!), the enterprise having a bath, plenty of people screaming or being worried, either hanging on stuff, falling from varying altitudes or running between or through windows, and boring cityscapes. Plus a volcano with extra melty lava, a couple punches and perhaps some weapons fire.
Urth izin dendjer btw.
- Again?
- Yeah, y'know...

I wouldn't say the trailers for the first movie got me excited either, but at least I was mildly curious enough to [censored] the movie.
But this one... geez.


Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:44 pm
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Jedi Knight

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I just finished watching the movie, give it a chance, you might like it. I'm going to avoid spoilers, but I was fascinated by the films story and enjoyed it. One or two parts strained credulity a bit but I still recomend it anyway.


Fri May 17, 2013 2:43 am
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Jedi Master

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Haven't seen it, want to see it, and I know I will love it, because I'm not old and grumpy like Mr. O... ;-P


Fri May 17, 2013 12:24 pm
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Jedi Master

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Mr. Oragahn wrote:
So, has anyone seen the trailers, featurettes and other stuff yet?

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/star-tre ... 36233.html

It's amazing how I just couldn't care less. All you see is some kind of bad guy (OMG U DONT SAYIN ITS KHAAAAAN!!), the enterprise having a bath, plenty of people screaming or being worried, either hanging on stuff, falling from varying altitudes or running between or through windows, and boring cityscapes. Plus a volcano with extra melty lava, a couple punches and perhaps some weapons fire.
Urth izin dendjer btw.
- Again?
- Yeah, y'know...

I wouldn't say the trailers for the first movie got me excited either, but at least I was mildly curious enough to [censored] the movie.
But this one... geez.

You're just jealous that Kirk beds cat girl twins. ^_^


Sat May 25, 2013 4:52 am
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Jedi Master

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Praeothmin wrote:
Haven't seen it, want to see it, and I know I will love it, because I'm not old and grumpy like Mr. O... ;-P

At worst, it's a fun action flick.

Someone really needs to explain what cold fusion is to hollywood. A cold fusion bomb will not freeze a volcano. ^_^

The idea of stealth interplanetary torpedos was interesting.

It almost seems like the NUfeds use something like a quantum slipstream drive.

Have we ever seen the Enterprise's shields stop an attack in any of the new movies? >_<


Sat May 25, 2013 5:03 am
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Starship Captain
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i am neither old nor cranky, and i was uninterested even in the first one.


Sat May 25, 2013 7:02 am
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Lucky wrote:
Praeothmin wrote:
Haven't seen it, want to see it, and I know I will love it, because I'm not old and grumpy like Mr. O... ;-P

At worst, it's a fun action flick.

Someone really needs to explain what cold fusion is to hollywood. A cold fusion bomb will not freeze a volcano. ^_^

The idea of stealth interplanetary torpedos was interesting.

It almost seems like the NUfeds use something like a quantum slipstream drive.

Have we ever seen the Enterprise's shields stop an attack in any of the new movies? >_<


People need to explain a hell of a lot of things to Hollywood, like when Scotty said he would "suffocate, freeze and explode" when exposed to space. I've only seen it once, but if memory serves they were between the earth and the moon when he said that, so he'd be in full view of the sun, making freezing unlikely, and certainly never instantaneous. Vacuums are insulators, after all. Suffocation, yes. Exploding? No.

And the fact that the Enterprise immediately starts plummeting towards Earth when power fails, as if momentum and inertia don't matter worth a damn.

I've always found it funny that Star Trek ships of any kind would be in danger of burning up, given the heat tolerances we've seen elsewhere in Trek. Entering a planetary atmosphere should be nothing at all.

I thought the reversal of Spock's death from TWOK was well done for what it was, but everything wrapped up so nicely in the end. TWOK had the balls to actually end with a death. And anyone who couldn't scope Khan's blood saving Kirk in the end apparently wasn't watching. Getting Kirk back would have made for an excellent sequel hook.

I've never seen any kind of shields in NuTrek either. And the idea of a ship purpose built to attack at warp is nothing the original universe can't do all the time.


Sat May 25, 2013 6:14 pm
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Jedi Knight

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Lucky wrote:
Have we ever seen the Enterprise's shields stop an attack in any of the new movies? >_<

Cocytus wrote:
I've never seen any kind of shields in NuTrek either.
The shields were mentioned as being up at some point during the attack, then after several hits, or the cease fire I can't remember, Sulu said the shields were either at 20%, 6% or something. So while they do exist, they don't appear to stop much. Actually this is similar to how shields were nudged aside for much of DS9's battles, except more intentional rather than visual or budgetary constraints.

I was a little irritated that throughout the whole battle, the Enterprise never fired back, it's just somehow disappointing.


Cocytus wrote:
And the fact that the Enterprise immediately starts plummeting towards Earth when power fails, as if momentum and inertia don't matter worth a damn.

I've always found it funny that Star Trek ships of any kind would be in danger of burning up, given the heat tolerances we've seen elsewhere in Trek. Entering a planetary atmosphere should be nothing at all.
They never have had a good grasp on the idea of orbiting and what it actually means. And for burning up, reentry temperatures can reach the 10,000 °C range, which seems to be about the tolerance for a starship. It is more that they are never going fast enough, to get that level of heat they would need to be going near 10 km/s, but they don't. For example in TNG: "Arsenal of Freedom" the Enterprise-D is slowly lumbering through the upper atmosphere and being heated to around 3,000 °C on the hull. And another time in ST:Generations the saucer section falls into the atmosphere in a semi-controlled decent and is just fine.


All and all, I liked the movie. Although they had to many re-hashes of old material (Kirk sacrificing himself to the warp core's radiation to save the ship and crew, Spock yelling "KAHN!!", the damaged Enterprise rising gracefully from the clouds at the exact same angel as in the previous movie, Scotty's reuse a of "like hitting a bullet with a smaller bullet..." type phrase, etc...) Oh, and the seat-belts were both neat and weird. I did like the inclusion of Section 31, they fit well with what you would think they would be doing. Except possibly building their own ship, perhaps that was just the doing of one man and not the whole organization.


Sat May 25, 2013 9:10 pm
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And the fact that the Enterprise immediately starts plummeting towards Earth when power fails, as if momentum and inertia don't matter worth a damn.

I've always found it funny that Star Trek ships of any kind would be in danger of burning up, given the heat tolerances we've seen elsewhere in Trek. Entering a planetary atmosphere should be nothing at all.


Which is funny that Sulu even said that since the ship survives reentry just fine. Maybe it was a battle damage issue? The only time I noted pieces of the ship falling off during the fall through the Earth's atmosphere was from the areas heavy gouged out by the Vengance's phasers and torpedoes. Oh, and the Vengence's weapons do vaporize huge chunks of the Alt-E's hull when they hit with remaining structure glowing red and white hot.

As for the falling from lunar orbit, I think both ships were already falling, since when the Alt-E falls out of warp, we see the Moon big and huge behind her and Vengence, but over the course of the battle and during Kirk and Khan's flight across between the ships, it is no longer there. Late, Earth suddenly looks a lot bigger in that first shot of the Alt-E falling towards it immediately after Sulu says they've lost power.

The other implication is how frickin' fast both ships were falling to fall from Lunar orbit to Earth in under an hour is scary fast, and the Alt-E and Vengence not only survived that, ut the Alt-E's thrusters actually stopped her from hitting the ground (or ocean as the case may be).

All that being said, it harkens back to TOS, particularly "Court Martial", where Ben Finney cutting the E's power caused her to start to fall out of orbit in a similar manner.
-Mike


Sat May 25, 2013 9:57 pm
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Lucky wrote:
Have we ever seen the Enterprise's shields stop an attack in any of the new movies? >_<


Not as such, but then again, bear in mind that every time the ship has been in battle, it's been against a vastly superior opponent. The Narada, and now Vengence, way out classed her in firepower.
-Mike


Sat May 25, 2013 10:00 pm
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Jedi Knight

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359 wrote:
And for burning up, reentry temperatures can reach the 10,000 °C range, which seems to be about the tolerance for a starship. It is more that they are never going fast enough, to get that level of heat they would need to be going near 10 km/s, but they don't. For example in TNG: "Arsenal of Freedom" the Enterprise-D is slowly lumbering through the upper atmosphere and being heated to around 3,000 °C on the hull. And another time in ST:Generations the saucer section falls into the atmosphere in a semi-controlled decent and is just fine.


Well, the E-D appeared to have some sort of low level shielding in place at the time. That or it's a bow shock. Though offhand, I would be very impressed if the makers had managed to account for that particular effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpgyrIlhoyw

Offhand, the only one I can think of that might approach that speed is Voyager's uncontrolled crash in "Timeless," since they had just exited the slipstream. It's been a while since I've seen the episode though. The E-D does sit pretty in a stellar corona in "Descent," which heated the hull to 12000 C without any visible incandescence. Then again, Voyager did get to incandescence at 9000 C flying through the binary pulsar in "Scientific Method."


Sun May 26, 2013 12:20 am
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Jedi Knight

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Cocytus wrote:
Well, the E-D appeared to have some sort of low level shielding in place at the time. That or it's a bow shock. Though offhand, I would be very impressed if the makers had managed to account for that particular effect.
It seems unlikely that they have any form of useful shielding left, the blast from the warp core would either have been absorbed by the shields thereby not forcing the saucer to crash, or the shields were depleted by the blast resulting in the saucer being pushed into a collision course and were non-functional on reentry. It really does look like bow shock, which in reality would make sense, so that is what I have always assumed it is.

Additionally in TNG: "The Arsenal Of Freedom" the Enterprise's shields were up and they were moving slowly while heating. And in VOY: "Equinox Part II" both Voyager and the USS Equinox entered atmosphere with their shields up and took damage from it with their shields flaring up all the while.

Cocytus wrote:
Offhand, the only one I can think of that might approach that speed is Voyager's uncontrolled crash in "Timeless," since they had just exited the slipstream. It's been a while since I've seen the episode though.
They could have been going near that speed in the upper atmosphere, but they had slowed down considerably by the time we see them again near the ground and they had finally managed to gain some control over their decent. But it is likely they were going those speeds earlier on during reentry.

So in this instance Voyager is seen to survive reentry intact without shields and having already suffered structural and hull damage. On the other hand, Voyager is of a much more modern design than any other ships we see on reentry, but probably not better by that much.


Also interesting is that when the Vengeance crashed it did not suffer from reentry (or much from impact) despite having had 72 torpedoes detonated in its hold.


Sun May 26, 2013 6:43 am
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Jedi Master

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I loved the movie, and Sherlock Khan was execellent...
As for the crashing sequence, the Enterprize was fired upon and thus most likely pushed towards Earth...
And Mike is right, the burnt parts of the ship came from the battle damaged parts...
Notice how the undamaged parts did not burn off?


Sun May 26, 2013 12:30 pm
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Got to see the movie in proper real IMAX and 3D this weekend, and I spotted quite a bit that was not readily noticeable in the regular theater version.

- The NX-01/NX-class makes a cameo appearance as part of the "history of spaceflight" desk model line up visible while Kirk and Marcus discuss where Harrison is and how to deal with him. This pretty much solidifies ST:ENT in the canon since the timeline for both is identical up to 2233. Also making a cameo is the often overlooked XCV-330 Enterprise ringship in the line up, and it is the first time in Trek that a three dimensional, physical representation of the ship is seen, and it probably gives a good indication of what the "real" ship looks like.

- When the torpedoes detonate inside the Vengence, there is a distinct series of intense white bright flashes followed by the more traditional "gasoline bomb" hollywood fireball.

- More detail is apparent that clinches the Vengence's weapons are vaporizing the sections of of the Alt-prises' hull they hit. Since crew near those sections survive and are then subsequently killed by being sucked out into space, this might be an indication of internal protection systems as well as external ones.

- The pieces of Alt-prise debris falling off definitely come only from the severely damaged sections where Vengence's phasers and torpedoes had previously hit.

- The leading edge of the Alt-prise survives the reentry heating with little, if any sign of damage, and Vengence similarly survives it's atmospheric entry.

- Mudd's confiscated ship has a graphic display in the cockpit that looks very much like the Prime timeline Enterprise's astrogator panel on the helm and navigation console.

I'll have to make a more comprehensive list of details, since there are a lot of tech and Versus-related issues involved here.
-Mike


Mon May 27, 2013 7:15 pm
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Jedi Knight

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This new timeline has certainly gone in its own direction, the ships cant handle the heat of a volcano but can handle reentry? I've never really cared much for the look of the new Enterprise exterior, but I do like the interior, and the new warp core was rather interesting as compared to the usual design.
Kirk himself was a bit surprising, but only a bit. He's way more reckless than Kirk-prime was, I chalk that up to the fact that this guy went from the academy straight into being captain wheras Kirk-prime rose through the ranks and got the benefit of experience before becoming captain.
Kirk-prime is a seasoned pro wheras Nu-Kirk is basically just a wunderkind.
What did everyone think of the look of the Klingons?

PS, check out Redletter Media, they have a scathing review of the movie up.


Tue May 28, 2013 3:52 am
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