I got the ICS compilation

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Praeothmin
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Post by Praeothmin » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:47 pm

GStone wrote:
Well, the point of a tracer is so it can be tracked. Tracer rounds in the field have been used during some night fights. But, the ICS shows more often than not only forward sensor structures. Side and rear ones usually come from being attached to turret/fixed weapon ports.
If you need to be able to visually track where your weapon will fire/hit, then your sensors aren't that good to begin with.
And since the heaviest guns are normally used on the heaviest enemies, i.e. slow moving ISDs and Mon Cal, then you don't need to use a tracer to adjust your shot. Just aim, and shoot, and you should have an automatic hit... If your sensors are that good...
If their computers really could track objects moving at lightspeed, it'd
But they don't need to track objects moving at lightspeed, or even near it. All they need to track are slow, lumbering ships with the maneuverability of a beached whale...

And if you're that concerned about visual tracking, then why not use a colored energy beam. That way you'd be able to track it easily...

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Post by AnonymousRedShirtEnsign » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:23 pm

The colored energy beam idea has already been proposed as superior to the very slow bolt tracer. http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... =3864#3864

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:08 pm

AnonymousRedShirtEnsign wrote:The colored energy beam idea has already been proposed as superior to the very slow bolt tracer. http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... =3864#3864
Superior in what department? It can't even explain what's on screen. There are many instances of bolts in AOTC and ROTS exploding... and continuing on.

If it's not a tracer, and I admit this idea is kinda absurd, then it is that a bolt has two components, and it can literally burst and still have its visible part go on like nothing happened.

Funnily, all those cases I refer to happen in atmosphere.

There's possibly something about a bolt's integrity, a balance between keeping teh thing packed as a single bolt, with the amount of energy inside, but also timed to explode X seconds after being fired; a chain reaction timer that makes the bolt go pop, or some kind of particle cohesion... crap, I had the term on my tongue, a half life particle that decays, degenerates, and once it collapses, the skin of the bolt vanishes and it kinda explodes, thus the flak burst.

Like if you had the + and the -, and after x seconds, one of the two is removed, and the bolt expands violently.
Last edited by Mr. Oragahn on Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by GStone » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:45 pm

Energy bomb?

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:07 am

GStone wrote:Energy bomb?
Pretty much the theory I suggested/defended back when I was at B².

The part I have to sort out is why part of a bolt will still move on while there's been a burst.
It could be residual and luminous particles which would have no major effect on a target... and would probably fade away.

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Post by AnonymousRedShirtEnsign » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:07 am

Superior in what department? It can't even explain what's on screen.
It is superior in that it allows you to correct your aim in real time since you are receiving constant information about weather or not you are hitting your target. It is not supposed to explain what is seen in SW, but show why the TLs are Lasers theory doesn't make since. My understanding of the TLs are Lasers theory is that a TL bolt has two parts, a sub-luminal bolt that acts as a tracer and the Laser that actually does the damage (sort of the opposite of a Laser sight on a gun) and that they are synchronized to that the visible bolt and the Laser impact the target at the same time. I think that is absolutely absurd, and that anyone who defends that, is either un-objective, or severely lacking in knowledge of both Star Wars and physics not to mention common sense.

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Post by GStone » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:20 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
GStone wrote:Energy bomb?
Pretty much the theory I suggested/defended back when I was at B².

The part I have to sort out is why part of a bolt will still move on while there's been a burst.
It could be residual and luminous particles which would have no major effect on a target... and would probably fade away.
I think it's the same reason why you can't just jump up in a falling elevator just before it crashes and you live. The energy inside (you inside an elevator) are still traveling as fast as the container (elevator). The elevator crashes and you're still traveling at almost the same speed after you jump, so you'll hit the floor of the elevator and crash, too, dying.
AnonymousRedShirtEnsign wrote:I think that is absolutely absurd, and that anyone who defends that, is either un-objective, or severely lacking in knowledge of both Star Wars and physics not to mention common sense.
I have joked about the blob being like an energy bomb clock, but the delayed reaction with needing to punch through with KE alone does help to explain why certain things are as they are, such as the prep time needed to get calculations to jump to hyperspace. You're getting pulverized and know you're gonna get a hull breech, so you order someone to get the calcs and make the jump. On larger ships, like SDs, they've got a little time. More often than not, it's fighter versus fighter and some fighters can take a beating, while others can't, so they, too, would have a little bit of time to have the computer get the calcs when they know they gotta jump to hyperspace.

Having a tower on capital ships lets them look around at those that are firing on them. Since we don't really see ships coming up from underneath and firing on SD (at least, during the OT; I know a piece flew at a Venator in ep 3 and I think 2 ships crashed into each other above coruscant), so I'd imagine that they are more heavily shielded underneath, especially since the only thing on the underside is the hangar and the tractor beam. All the weapons are on the sides and on the top, so, to allow heat to be expelled and not cook the crew and to turn the weapons around, they won't be as armored, as the underside because they would be made with materials that have holes for the weapon ports, which means that the surface will also have weaker materials because you aren't gonna design hull plating to go on the structural support beams of a TL battery, no matter the size. This gives attackers easier points of attack and having a tower let's you see them better because they won't be attacking from underneath.

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Post by AnonymousRedShirtEnsign » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:53 pm

But ISDs do have TLs on their ventral sides, we see them used on the Tantive IV in ANH :) and the notion of needing an observation tower is rather absurd for a space fairing civilization. Also, heat doesn't radiate toward the dorsal side of your ship in space, since their is no "up," unless you are in a gravity well near a planet, star, black hole, et cetera were up does not necessarily correspond to your deck layout.

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Post by GStone » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:59 pm

I forgot about those, but they may be more for defense of fighters getting back into the hangar or as a way of destroying attempts by ships being tractored in from damaging the inside of the ship.

As far as the heat, they could 'fire' it off, away from the ship, which would require something to shoot it/release it from.

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Post by AnonymousRedShirtEnsign » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:45 am

I'm not saying that they are primarily for anti-capitol ship use. They are probably MTLs since they are effectively used against a corvette. They appear to be used for run & gun skirmishes rather than coordinated battles.

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Post by GStone » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:01 am

[imagines SD turning its nose up to fire with its hangar guns on target before flipping the nose back and firing the ion engines full blast, blasting through it, before it rockets away. \:-P]

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Post by AFT » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:44 am

Just a question guys, leaving the whole versus debate aside, if some day I ran across this book, is it worthwhile to buy it? As a Sci-Fi fan that happens to like SW as much as ST, only on a different way.

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Post by GStone » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:31 am

If it's something you just wanna read once or twice, go to one of those book stores that lets you read the books without buying it. There are only a few new entries and they're all in the ep 6 section. The only other 2 new things of value are the tech blurbs in the front and the 2 examples of how the entries are made. The glossary of tech in the back doesn't provide any new insightes and the descriptions of the different faction and times in the front doesn't give anything new. If you wanna make notes of the text blurbs, specifics of what's where, you can do that at that store, too. Just don't make it superobvious.

If you want the pictures, you'll have to buy it, though I would assume that you could buy it, scan the pages in and return it. Just follow the store's policy on returns and be careful of how much wear and tear you do to the binding when you scan it in.

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Post by AnonymousRedShirtEnsign » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:56 pm

If you are really cheap, get it out of your local library (if they don't have it ask for a material request form) and scan it.

I'm wondering, as someone who owns the other four ICS books, is the new content worth the price tag?

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Post by GStone » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:35 am

I think it is, but that was just so that I had the complete set. If you are just interested in knowing what it says and don't want to use it as any kind of reference, don't buy it. Just look through it.

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