The Star Trek Galaxy, at the end of Wong's "Conquest"

[Trinoya]

I think it was. I definitely agree with the dark age and dominon control parts, that's for sure.

[Mike DiCenso]

Seriously, is Wong's story really out of line wth the licensed work?s
Going by what I've seen of the EU, one could make Wongs claims work, what with their intergalactic hyperdrives, and Vong's using the Force to bring down SD's-- SD's which, BTW, also generate bazilions of hyperwanks, have hulls made out of neutronium, and have 200 gigaton turbolasers or whatever.

Granted, there's no wanker like Wong,; but I'd just like to know if he's really making things up on his own, rather than simply usingthings that are actually in the EU.

It is not that in-line, even with some of the more wanked out offical material out there, excluding, of course, the ICS books. Much of what Wong wrote in his story is watered down fanwank speculation from the old ASVS newsgroup and his vision of the UFP and TNG-era Trek is based mostly on hearsay from his Warsies friends along with his own placing the template of the highly dystopian Terran Federation from the BBC television series Blake's 7 onto the Star Trek Federation.

For instance, compare the Base Delta Zero descriptions, which we have plenty of actual quotes from here on SFJN, to the Warsie version of it. Outside of the name, and they're both a form of massive planetary bombardment, there is nothing else in common, because the fankwank version elevates the power level based on selective cherrypicking, and then makes the most generous assumptions of that. A BDZ in the EU books proper, usually require several ISDs, though sometimes dozens of other types of SDs are needed to to carry it out, and then over the course of hours or even the space of a day to leave the surface of a planet pock-marked with craters, and the enviroment despoiled. The fankwank version requires only a lone ISD, and about one hour to liquify the crust of an Earth-like world.

It was the fanwank version that Dr. Saxton managed to codify into the AoTC: ICS book, and to a somewhat lesser extent, the RoTS: ICS book. The Warsies have since attempted to largely backwards canonize this into the older material by claiming it was there all the time, while a few authors have sprinkled bits of references to the ICS books into the newer material, it is not as extensive as the Warsies would like to claim it is. The Death Star EU novel takes hypermatter and such from the ICS books, but then has the DS superlaser fire a weird chain-reaction beam that shunts most of a planet into hyperspace, causing the rest of the planet still in normal space to explode violently. The battlestation's hypermatter reactor is still thousands of times weaker in power output than the Warsie fanwank, which presumes 1e38 W, when maybe 1e25 W or there about is the best you can get from the novel's statements.

More, the EU says that there are 3 or so million Clonetroopers, while the fanwank says there are billions, or even quadrillions of them. TCW put this to rest by mentioning that 5 million additional troopers was enough to bankrupt the Galactic Republic.

So where does that leave us? Well, as far as Wong's story is concerned, it raises serious questions about what would happen in the aftermath since the whole of what previously occured is highly unlikely for all the reasons that have been put forth.

If Youngla really wants to know what would happen, I would point him to the early encounters with the Dominion in DS9, with Founders inflitrating the the governments of various powers, destablizing them, and causing mass panic and incriminations. All you need are one or two competent Founders like Changeling-Lovok, Changeling Bashir, or Changeling Martok, and the Empire would soon be at war with itself.

More amusing would be a Founder replacing Admiral Kanos, and misdirecting the established Imperials in the Alpha quadrant so that the Dominion has time to recover and to then counter-attack and take over as per Breetai's assessment.
-Mike

[Admiral Breetai]

Changeling Kanos..is something I didn;t think of mainly because I had assumed wong would do something like have the founders be destroyed by a couple tie fighters or some such non sense

thats also a viable method I mean why destroy a fleet of decent sized tanks thats can function as mobile space stations..I mean just beef up the armor and shields and add some polaron beam weapons..replace the engines..and you have a decent..moving orbital defense platform

so infiltrating the Imperial fleet is viable completely subverting them and using them as a third power..to create a sort of extra vassal to provide a counter balance to a really furious..federation and have a strangle hold on the DQ and AQ and BQ in the form of a seeming three way stalemate with the only other power in the galaxy that could likely pull itself up..(the feds) would go along way towards buying them time..to really cut loose

the imps..may eventually rebel but..the Feds maybe too cautious or resentful by then to really help

the questions going to be how long will the Feds lay down under imperial rule and how long before S31 breaks maxwell and leyton out of jail and hands them some WMD's to go play with their new friends with? I mean..it would make things worse..alienate allot of what little allied powers would remain..but it would work well in destabilizing and maybe slowing the Dominion/Imperial movements..and of course possibly liberating fed space

I do think if the Feds can survive whats coming..or eventually end up refounding..it's going to be a very centralized government..and I predict humanity will have a majority political sway-but it likely wont be for a centuries after this


thoughts?

[Mike DiCenso]

That's another major flaw; Section 31 is curiously rather absent in Wong's little story. Even by the time he was writing it, S31 had already played a significant role in DS9, and more recently played a big role during season 4 of ST:ENT.
-Mike

[Picard]

It contradicts his opinion of Federation as being utterly incompetent, and therefore it does not exist in whatever world he lives in.

[Admiral Breetai]

what I would have liked to see is an accurately written fight between Vader and a couple Dahar masters..ones who preferably are old school klingon in mindset..

that would of been epic

I don't know why he didn't touch on S31 or chose to ignore them outright...what happened to the dommies?

edit-mike they aren't alone S31 while the most "legit" and powerful isn't alone there seems to be multiple rogue sects within SFI S31 just seems to be the main one pulling the strings..but the Pegasus and a few other covert events took place seemed to be rogue admirals/factions within SFI

[User1626]

I'm interested in how a neutronium hull can be penetrated by ions, like in Ep. V, when the Hoth ion-canon overloads out an ISD's electrical-systems? Obviously neutronium can't conduct electricity, since its electron-shells are collapsed, this is stated expressly in The Doomsday Machine novel.
So there's no way that the ISD hulls could contain neutronium like the Gary Stu-story says, they'd have to be made of some ordinary metal that can conduct electricity.

[User1626]

If Youngla really wants to know what would happen, I would point him to the early encounters with the Dominion in DS9, with Founders inflitrating the the governments of various powers, destablizing them, and causing mass panic and incriminations. All you need are one or two competent Founders like Changeling-Lovok, Changeling Bashir, or Changeling Martok, and the Empire would soon be at war with itself.

More amusing would be a Founder replacing Admiral Kanos, and misdirecting the established Imperials in the Alpha quadrant so that the Dominion has time to recover and to then counter-attack and take over as per Breetai's assessment.
-Mike

Why not just have an EMH look and talk like anyone you wanted?
Or use one of those portable holo-projectors that change a person's appearance and voice?
But you have to question how Wong thinks, if he says it all comes down to comparative energy; by that standard, a pillow-fight is more deadly than a knife-fight. It seems that he has a problem with logic and abstract reasoning-ability.