Why The Episode One hate?

[Lucky]

Basically I seem to hear people on boards such as this talk about TPM as if it is the worst of the six movies, but for the life of me I can't figure out why. Could someone explain it?

[Praeothmin]

Jar-Jar Binks...


Ok, ok, if I must add more, the movie takes too long to get to the point, Jar-Jar was a horrible character, young Anakin was barely less annoying than the Withwicky family in the Transformer movies, and frankly, Darth Maul had one of the lousiest bad guy death in movies in years...

[Mike DiCenso]

It's mainly Jar Jar that ruins the film. He is perhaps one of, if not the most hated Star Wars characters of all time. If you can find a copy of it online, watch the fan-made Phantom Edit version of TPM. It actually made the movie great by mostly eliminating Jar Jar from the film and cleaning up various scenes to make for a better flowing film.

I recommend that you look at the links to RedLetterMedia's YouTube review of TPM here in this thread.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Red Letter Media's is spot on for most of it.

Yet I prefer it to the two other CGI crapfests. Despite Jar Jar and the lack of main characters, it's by far the superior film of the new trilogy.
We may have JJB in TPM, but the last two movies managed to spoil Darth Vader.

Plus the lightsabres' blades FX, which imho sucked in the last two movies:

_______________________________

[Praeothmin]

Yet I prefer it to the two other CGI crapfests.

Whaaaaaaat?
At least what the other two lacked in story and good characters, they made up with fun battles...

[Mr. Oragahn]

Yet I prefer it to the two other CGI crapfests.

Whaaaaaaat?
At least what the other two lacked in story and good characters, they made up with fun battles...

The battles were shit. The best lightsabre battle was the one with Darth Maul, and it already hinged on lots of coolness. By AOTC, the stunt director had given up.
As for the other ground and space battles, AOTC and ROTS really seized the crown. AT least in TPM the stupid wasn't so obvious because it was about advanced cavemen using exotic tech and shields against stupid droids relying on numbers. The space battle of TPM was just as forgettable.
And the waste and flood of CGI was just fucking sick. In TPM they still were using a lot of big sized props and models.
Besides, TPM has the podracers, and even it's a total distraction from the near non-plot, it was cool.
Oh, and it had Qui-Gon Jinn. I can only imagine how even more awesome this character would have been if TPM had been shot by a more competent film director.

[Lucky]

Jar-Jar Binks...

Jar Jar wasn't that bad, and he kind of grows on you.

I'm not seeing a case for all the Ep. one hate. It tends to be singled out for some reason, and the reasons I'm seeing aply to Ep.s 2 and 3, and the acting just killed 2 and 3, and unlike 1 you can't just go lol their just little kids.


If I want to watch a movie like Episode 2 and 3 I'll go watch a better movie like Star Trek Nemesis.

[Cocytus]

Expectations, Lucky. With Episodes 2 and 3, we knew what we were getting. We were getting crap, but at least we knew it. With Episode 1, we had no idea what to expect, but we sure as hell weren't expecting that.

I will say in terms of the quality of the film, acting, choreography, etc. Attack of the Clones is the absolute nadir of both trilogies. Everything about it is terrible. I prefer Episode 1 to it, but Episode 1 was so jarring because all we had to measure it against at the time were the first three films, all of which are superior in virtually every category. In terms of those categories, Episode 1 actually does many of them better than the other two prequels. The lightsaber duels are better than Eps 2 and 3. The space battle is at least vaguely reminiscent of ROTJ, which has the best space battle of any Star Wars film. The Episode 1 battle at least tries. There's a sense of energy and urgency about it that is totally missing from the lethargic silliness that opens Episode 3. The duels are better than anything in AOTC, and I'll take little kid Anakin over whiny teenage Anakin any day. Padme's shotaro complex is seriously off-putting, and Natalie Portman's performance is flat as a board, but I can deal with it.

And as a personal nitpick, Palpatine in Episode 3 Is. God. Awful. I can't put enough emphasis on that. In ROTJ he was restrained and calm, and all the more threatening. He never raised his voice, he never yelled and growled like he does in ROTS, never flailed around, he just sat there, totally sure of the superiority of his powers. And he was right. Only Vader's betrayal saved Luke. In Episode 3 he's a cartoonish caricature of his original self. I HATED him in ROTS. He was good in Episode 1, maintaning his friendly public face while manipulating things as Darth Sidious. Darth Maul was also a good one-off villain. It helps that he had but one line of dialogue, and so not much opportunity for Lucas to screw him up. He's forgettable, but he works well for what he is.

So in terms of quality, Episode 1 is better than Episode 2 and at least equal to Episode 3. Still, I remember the shock of seeing it against the first three, and that's hard to get over. The gulf in quality of dialogue and acting was jarring, even if the pacing wasn't bad and the choreography and action snappy, if hollow.

[Praeothmin]

Jar Jar wasn't that bad, and he kind of grows on you.

Fungus also grows on you, and I hate fungus.
Jar-Jar Binks was a horrible character that served absolutely no purpose at all...

[Lucky]

Jar Jar wasn't that bad, and he kind of grows on you.

Fungus also grows on you, and I hate fungus.
Jar-Jar Binks was a horrible character that served absolutely no purpose at all...

He's not that bad, and the Trade Fed would have won had it not been for him.

[Praeothmin]

Jar Jar wasn't that bad, and he kind of grows on you.

Fungus also grows on you, and I hate fungus.
Jar-Jar Binks was a horrible character that served absolutely no purpose at all...

He's not that bad, and the Trade Fed would have won had it not been for him.

What?
No, the Trade Federation would have won were it not for Anakin.
Jar-Jar being made Bombad General just shows how stupid the Gungans are...
The whole tie in plot with the Gungans was stupid, Jar-Jar was a stupid character, and nothing you say will change my mind about it... :)

Seriously, replace the Gungans by standard Naboo citizens being conscripted, and being reluctant to fight, and then just have the rest of the movie go on as it did, have Darth Maul survive, or at least block Obi-Wan's first couple of strikes, but being on the lip of the pit, he could not move or sidestep and get struck down...

[Mr. Oragahn]

And as a personal nitpick, Palpatine in Episode 3 Is. God. Awful. I can't put enough emphasis on that. In ROTJ he was restrained and calm, and all the more threatening. He never raised his voice, he never yelled and growled like he does in ROTS, never flailed around, he just sat there, totally sure of the superiority of his powers. And he was right. Only Vader's betrayal saved Luke. In Episode 3 he's a cartoonish caricature of his original self. I HATED him in ROTS. He was good in Episode 1, maintaning his friendly public face while manipulating things as Darth Sidious. Darth Maul was also a good one-off villain. It helps that he had but one line of dialogue, and so not much opportunity for Lucas to screw him up. He's forgettable, but he works well for what he is.

That and the fact that Lucas had to make all the old Sith and Jedi jump, do loops and other silly acrobatics, while most people expected samurai-tanks abusing Force powers and using the blade for some minute killing blows, not to shake them like neons and make some silly swirls in the air.
At least they didn't have Qui-Gon Jinn make stupid moves and that's also why he ruled, beside looking awesome as an epic Jedi.

The overall plot was so shitty that Lucas didn't found anything better than to kill QGJ and throw us Obi-Wan and his retarded PUYBT (Prone Up Yours Battle Taunt TM).

So in terms of quality, Episode 1 is better than Episode 2 and at least equal to Episode 3. Still, I remember the shock of seeing it against the first three, and that's hard to get over. The gulf in quality of dialogue and acting was jarring, even if the pacing wasn't bad and the choreography and action snappy, if hollow.

It's funny cause I didn't have many expectations, and I was quite pleased of Episode I. My mind ignored Jar Jar and I never had any problem with the kid's acting because, huh, he's a kid and that's just the way kids are.

[Picard]

I think it's mainly due to Jar Jar Binks and his folks.

[User1461]

Jar-Jar Binks...


Ok, ok, if I must add more, the movie takes too long to get to the point, Jar-Jar was a horrible character, young Anakin was barely less annoying than the Withwicky family in the Transformer movies, and frankly, Darth Maul had one of the lousiest bad guy death in movies in years...

Don't forget the horrible pod-race: I was thinking "Ben Hurr, done that," that kid's no Charlton Heston. Jar Jar reminded me of a Rastafarian Roger Rabbit.
But don't all Star Wars aliens talk like muppets? Jabba's lauging parrot-thing, or example, was right off "The Muppet Show," it didn't look the slightest bit lifelike.

And as a personal nitpick, Palpatine in Episode 3 Is. God. Awful. I can't put enough emphasis on that. In ROTJ he was restrained and calm, and all the more threatening. He never raised his voice, he never yelled and growled like he does in ROTS, never flailed around, he just sat there, totally sure of the superiority of his powers. And he was right..

You're forgetting when he appeared as Darth Sidious, he did all of those things right from the off. Palpatine was just an act to win people's confidence.

[Cocytus]

And as a personal nitpick, Palpatine in Episode 3 Is. God. Awful. I can't put enough emphasis on that. In ROTJ he was restrained and calm, and all the more threatening. He never raised his voice, he never yelled and growled like he does in ROTS, never flailed around, he just sat there, totally sure of the superiority of his powers. And he was right..

You're forgetting when he appeared as Darth Sidious, he did all of those things right from the off. Palpatine was just an act to win people's confidence.

Of course his public face was an act. But which things are you referring to specifically? Yelling and screaming like a mental patient? I don't recall Sidious ever doing that until he became the Emperor in ROTS. At that point, for some reason, Lucas felt he needed to trowel on the weird demonspeak to get the point across that *psssst! the Emperor is evil.* I get it, George.

The Emperor's dialogue has always been a bit on the hammy side, given that he is a megalomaniacal evil villain. But the original ROTJ performance was restrained enough to make the Emperor threatening in a way he just isn't in ROTS. His intonation and phrasing are quite subdued in the initial exchange with Luke. "I'm looking forward to completing your training. In time you will call me Master." Then when he gets less subtle in his speech, it is always with purpose, from the arrogant condescension of his "an entire legion of my best troops awaits them," to the mocking tone of his "oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive."

He's taunting and goading Luke, using anger and harshness when he needs to in his speech to reinforce the point he's making, and the reaction he's trying to elicit from Luke, as in "Strike me down with all of your hatred," and then "you, like your father, are now.....MINE."

All of the above is part of the Emperor's act. The only time he really gets angry is after he realizes he can't turn Luke, and from then on it's all facial expression. There was a point and purpose to the acting in ROTJ, and that movie's depiction of the Emperor is vastly superior to ROTS. In ROTS he's just drunk on his own power, and his characterization is more comical than threatening. WAAANCE MAWWRR THE SITH SHALL WRRRRUUUULE THE GALACKSEEE! And what on earth is that silly NO NO he gives Mace Windu? And the strangely catatonic dialogue of the opera house scene. Anakin I can understand, since he sucks, but McDiarmid gave IMO a great performance in ROTJ. Why couldn't he do the same here? The final duel between Palpatine and Yoda would have been far more convincing had it had the same level of emotional severity as Luke vs. Palpatine, a struggle of wills rather than yet another pointlessly acrobatic lightsaber duel. Personally, I always felt Yoda and the Emperor were above that sort of thing. In ROTJ, I could see the Emperor's arrogance, the sadistic pleasure he takes in taunting Luke, and finally his devolution into animalistic fury once he realizes his plan is not going as he has foreseen. In ROTS he's just silly.