Saxton and Star Wars

[The Dude]

Do you have a link to the story?

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Do you have a link to the story?

Sorry buddy i have not found any of the original news links yet but i am loking as it was only a few months ago i saw a site that had links to news of the events as they happened.

It is mentioned in considerable detail on the Dorling Kindersley wikipedia page in regards to their history if you consider that a half way reliable source (i do and do not depending on the circumstances ect, in this i tend to believe it as i saw other material from the time it happened)..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorling_Kindersley

I will keep looking for the older material however, it is annoying because i remember seeing a link to a site that had news from the events as they occoured but i just cannot remember the site name or where i saw it.

[Mike DiCenso]

I found this article via the references at the Wikipedia entry here.

According to this source, DK got into trouble printing over 18 million SW books in 1999, but more than 10 million of them did not sell, and lead to the company's collapse and subsequent buyout by Pearson. So what Kor said in that context is true, but it has little to do with later SW books, such as AOTC ICS and ROTS ICS except that maybe DK didn't print out as many knowing that they were not going to sell very well.
-Mike

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

I found this article via the references at the Wikipedia entry here.

According to this source, DK got into trouble printing over 18 million SW books in 1999, but more than 10 million of them did not sell, and lead to the company's collapse and subsequent buyout by Pearson.

So what Kor said in that context is true,

YAY me.

but it has little to do with later SW books, such as AOTC ICS and ROTS ICS except that maybe DK didn't print out as many knowing that they were not going to sell very well.
-Mike

The publisher must have had a reason to add stats to the next book, and what other reason would it be other than to increase sales one way or another?.

[The Dude]

*shrug* Maybe Dr. S asked if he could put them in. It's not like there is any reason to exclude them.

[Mike DiCenso]

I'm afraid I have to agree with The Dude on this one. The last time I was at San Diego ComiCon and had a chance to talk the DK folks, they really don't have a clue as to what a lot of this stuff is, and so if Saxton (whatever his motivations are) asked to put them in, they probably had no idea what it was until it was too late.
-Mike

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

I'm afraid I have to agree with The Dude on this one. The last time I was at San Diego ComiCon and had a chance to talk the DK folks, they really don't have a clue as to what a lot of this stuff is, and so if Saxton (what his motivations are) asked to put them in, they probably had no idea what it was until it was too late.
-Mike

I di not know you spoke to the guys at DK, did you ask why saxon was needed anyway?.

If he was not asked to come so he could hake up stats why not just send a artist ect why somebody with his back ground if not to do calcs?. Did they get guys with simular back grounds for the first books?.

[The Dude]

Actually I think he was doing research by the time the third one rolled around. Or maybe he wasn't interested.

And IIRC the offer to do the first was sort of a reward for his efforts on his site.

[Mike DiCenso]

There is nothing to indicate that Saxton was invited to "hike up" any stats. Saxton was already being consulted by other ICS authors, like David Reynolds West, so they probably figured that allowing Saxton to write a book or two would be all right, especially given the work done on his website, and they had no idea that he would take advantage of it to help out his Versus debate buddies the way he did.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Imagine having to explain to a DK guy what 800 teratons is...

[Mike DiCenso]

It's a really, really BIG number!
-Mike

[Khas]

Or it would go like this:

DK Guy: Okay, so just how big is 800 teratons?

Saxton: You know the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs?

DK Guy: Yeah...

Saxton: Well, imagine 8 of them.

Yes, the K-T asteroid impact caused a 100 teraton explosion.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Or it would go like this:

DK Guy: Okay, so just how big is 800 teratons?

Saxton: You know the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs?

DK Guy: Yeah...

Saxton: Well, imagine 8 of them.

Yes, the K-T asteroid impact caused a 100 teraton explosion.

Oh sure, if you go that way, you can find any explanation that's just as good as it kills life fast. But people can't really begin to imagine what 100 TT would really look like.
Of course you also forgot the part about the DK guy asking "did we ever see that happen in Star Wars?"

[2046]

"Yay me"? Sorry, no. Kor was correct provided you ignore everything that was said.

Look here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/696695.stm

The story there is that DK prepared for the success of Star Wars Episode I in 1999, making sure their Ep1 tie-in books and some number of their existing Star Wars library was available. That means printing, which is where the rubber hits the road. When the movie failed to live up to expectations and not as many people bought the books as believed, DK took egg in the face.

(It's a peril of publishing, mind you . . . you just sort of make scientific wild-ass guesses at what's gonna happen and produce books accordingly, because there's a helluva lead time involved in making a run of books.)

So for 1999 they printed 13 million Star Wars books, we're told. And an operation that later sold for 311 million pounds lost around 17 million (depending on your accounting practices) that year, and a few dozen jobs were lost. Tough times, but it isn't like they went bankrupt.

Compare this to the idea that DK banked its future on a single book (rather than an entire franchise), printed over 9 million copies of that expensive-to-produce book that wasn't likely to ever sell even 3 million copies, and then went almost bankrupt until someone bought them out, and then did the exact same thing they'd done before but this time instead of targeting the mass market they were gonna target an esoteric subculture of a subgroup of a submarket of fandom, and gee-whiz that's superb strategy!

No, sorry.

It wasn't one book, it was everything they thought would sell with Episode I, from sticker books to Ready, Set, Podrace! to the Ep1 ICS children's book.
It wasn't 9 million of one book, it was 9 million of all of them.
For Ep2's ICS the trick wasn't Saxton or targeting a few hundred geeks on the internet as your market, it was that Episode II was a better movie, perhaps more people bought the books, and DK made mint off of it because they didn't spend themselves into oblivion for Episode II like they had for Episode I.

Now, I will grant that Saxton's appearance probably does relate to the 1999 event, simply because I'm sure the folks involved in SW publishing for Episode I weren't all there for Episode II, what with the spectacular embarrassment that occurred, the sale of the company and natural turnover, and so on. While I see no reason to assume DWR was specifically blackballed from the project (he was, I would imagine, quite uninvolved in the debacle), the simple fact of new ownership and a likely desire for a cheaper book might've meant they had the neat idea of finding someone who would do the book for nothing (whereas DWR might've requested a bit more than last time, as would be common).

That someone was Saxton. I rather doubt that Saxton got paid as much as Reynolds might've . . . hell, they probably utterly molested him in that regard since he had the whole labor-of-love look in the eye. And the movie didn't suck so it happened to sell well, maybe even more than they estimated this time out.

But in any case, we have explained the history without recourse to absurdities now, and at no point does some fanciful notion of internet fanboys being power brokers of the publishing world (or anything else) ever come into play.

But I have to go now. NBC is calling me to take over a late night show with a Vs. Debate-themed talk show, and their future relies on its controversy and success.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

"Yay me"? Sorry, no. Kor was correct provided you ignore everything that was said.

EVERYTHING?, or just your exhagerated interpretations of what i said?.

and then did the exact same thing they'd done before but this time instead of targeting the mass market they were gonna target an esoteric subculture of a subgroup of a submarket of fandom, and gee-whiz that's superb strategy!

No, sorry.

Maybe you should reread my posts where i clearly do NOT say that "INSTEAD of targeting the mass market they were gonna target an esoteric subculture of a subgroup of a submarket of fandom"........

Why do you think stats would ONLY appeal to VS debaters?, ok the trumped up crap he put in was a obvious indication of his bias but having stats is not going to be interesting to read for JUST/ONLY vs debaters.

Now i do think that the addition made it the most discussed technical manual in the history of SW in VS debates or not. Now to say they MAY have done so to increase the awareness of the book within the fandom is hardly a big leap.

It wasn't one book, it was everything they thought would sell with Episode I, from sticker books to Ready, Set, Podrace! to the Ep1 ICS children's book.
It wasn't 9 million of one book, it was 9 million of all of them.

The material i saw regarding this did not mention any of the other books but it did specify the ICS book.

But in any case, we have explained the history without recourse to absurdities now, and at no point does some fanciful notion of internet fanboys being power brokers of the publishing world (or anything else) ever come into play.

I posted no absurdities and i never claimed internet fanboys were power borkers in the publishing world......you are exhagerating my comments to the point of absurdity so you can dismiss them as such.