Clone Wars CGI Series - No Letters Home (Pre-Release)

For reviews and close examination of sources - episode reviews, book reviews, raves and rants about short stories, et cetera.
Mike DiCenso
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Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:57 pm

Enosh wrote:tbh I didn't realy look over the "no letter home" page much to find anything taken out of context, will do it when i have some more time, I just wanted to make the post more or less balanced for it to not look too biased to any side

yeah hy there, been reading here for quite a while (this is where my comment on SB came from that i swear I read the same review somewhere already), never bothered to register till now^^
Oh okay. Anyway, welcome to the forum, and feel free to contribute. :-)
-Mike

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:01 pm

2046 wrote:Most of the movie notes are unchanged from posts made (here or on the ST-v-SW.Net blog) just after my initial viewings of the film in theaters, and most episode notes are basically copied from my posts here. So yes, much to do.

I'm also still pondering what to do with it. On the one hand I'm quite fond of just doing it ... it's a project of some size, and though I lack spare time it is something that can be done in small bits with instant results, unlike the monstrous ST-v-SW.Net projects I usually make for myself.

On the other hand, with offers like l33telboi's I ponder whether a cooperative or community venture is more appropriate.

The current site is geared toward myself and perhaps 1-2 possible other contributors with the system as designed, though I might be able to expand that.

But if I made it a community venture I'd feel like I was stealing JMS's wiki thunder, as it were. Indeed, at that point I'd probably just want to make it a wiki, or point nolettershome.info to a certain area of SFJ's wiki made for the purpose.

My next thought at that point, however, is one of editorial control and methodology, especially in regards to egos. If there's a firm and clear conclusion per all the Vs. methods that some contributor(s) actively disagrees with, there is room for discussion and for opposing views to appear in the text to an extent, but eventually the counterclaim must be dismissed. And then somebody gets pissy, and there's frustration and such. Bleh.

I'm still pondering. Watch this space. Feel free to provide your valuable opinion, JMS.

I think that you're over-thinking it too much, Robert. The best thing to do is just keep working on it, and if you believe that some of the material is good stuff for the SFJN Database wiki, then by all means post it there in some articles as we could use some more Star Wars articles. In fact, the TCW episode summaries that you made (with or without) the commentaries would be a fine addition to the wiki.
-Mike

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Post by 2046 » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:52 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote: I think that you're over-thinking it too much, Robert.
Me? Never! ;-)

The ep list and summaries, alas, are not mine, but modified from Wikipedia. Hence the note at the bottom of the ep list table. So we could snag them for the SFJ wiki effortlessly.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:27 pm

Then by all means do so! ;-)
-Mike

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Post by 2046 » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:27 pm

double
Last edited by 2046 on Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Jedi Master Spock » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:28 pm

Our wiki thunder is very soft. Things cooled off on the wiki almost as soon as I launched the forums, so don't worry about stealing it. If you want to have just a couple coauthors, I highly recommend using the wiki engine even if you don't use the open contribution model; it's very often used for documentation purposes in that way. The permissions are pretty flexible.

If I wrote the main website all over again, I might've started with the wiki engine rather than coding up ugly HTML from scratch.
Last edited by Jedi Master Spock on Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:40 pm

Huh, interesting. I wasn't aware that you launched the Database wiki first before you started the forum.
-Mike

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Post by 2046 » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:53 pm

My main issue with wiki stuff is the unique markup language, but I guess I could look for a fckeditor integration for wysiwyg (or similar).

I've built a few sites for other people or topics using various content management doodads like Joomla, but while some simple things are super easy there's inevitably some simple thing, easy as pie in HTML, that you can't do at all or without getting neck-deep dirty in PHP. That often defeats the purpose of a CMS anyway.

Another issue is conversion. I was planning on an ST-v-SW.Net 2.0 based on a CMS, but taking my existing stuff to it would've been a profound pain in the ass.

You might actually have an easier time of it, given that the main site is already set up in a database-y way.

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Post by l33telboi » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:56 pm

A few posts I typed up today, that might be of interest in regards to TCW analysis:
l33telboi wrote:The reason I brought up the issue of cover (yes, cover, not concealment, but I'll go into more detail on that later) was because it's quite telling on how the weapons are used and/or how powerful they are. If someone during a combat situation comes under fire and decides to jump behind a rock for protection, then quite obviously he's assuming that rock will offer some protection, and in addition to this we also see that rock offering protection. If dialing up the weapon to rock-blasting was possible or prudent, then quite naturally the enemy would've blasted the rock the second the guy decided to use it for cover. But this doesn't happen.

The above demonstrates that these high settings are either used extremely sparingly, or they simply don't exist on certain rifles, or the firepower claims are exaggerated. I tend to think all three of those are correct. The reason for using the higher settings sparingly could be, as already suggested, that it drains the energy cell too quickly. But if that's the case, then we're literally talking about only being able to squeeze off a few such shots before running dry, otherwise they would've been used.

And to remind people, here are the incidents I'm talking about when I'm talking about cover:

1. The TCW episode Ambush, where a number of clones take cover behind a boulder from a large number of approaching super battledroids. The droids know they're there, but decide to lay down suppressive fire rather then simply blasting the boulder apart. There has to be a reason why.

2. The TCW episode Innocents of Ryloth, where a number of clones take cover behind trees from a position that's fortified by battle droids with support weapons. The droids know they're there, but decide to lay down suppressive fire rather then simply blasting the trees apart.

3. Same episode as above. A number of clones take cover behind rocks from a number of various droids. The droids know they're there, but ultimately decide to pound the position with tanks rather then blowing it apart with their normal weapons.

4. The TCW episode Rookies, where Rex and Cody take cover behind packing crates from a large number of commando droids. The droids know they're there, but decide to actually throw a large number thermal detonators at them rather then blasting the crates apart.

5. The TCW episode Duel of the Droids, where a group of clones, Anakin and R2-D2 take cover behind packing crates from a large number of various droid types. The droids know they're there, but decide to lay down suppressive fire rather then blowing the crates apart.

6. The TCW episode Cloak of Darkness, where a group of clones decide to take cover from a large number of super battledroids behind packing crates. The droids know they're there, but decide to actually bring in a super droid outfitted with a rocket launcher to destroy the cover and take out the clones.

7. The TCW episode Defenders of the Peace, where a group of clones build a barricade made out of... huge coconuts? I any case, the droids shoot at it, but the normal weapons do nothing, so they decide to blast the thing with a rocket launcher instead.

If we were talking about just one incident where this would've happened, I could chalk it up too whatever, but it's not just one incident, it's seven, and they all establish a clear method of operation on the battlefied, if someone's behind cover, then you blast them with rocket launchers, throw thermal detonators at them, or lay down suppressive fire, even though the most effective an easiest way to deal with the enemy would be to simply crank up the firepower and blast them to hell.

As for cover and concealment, I'm guessing the pictures and description already said this; but we're talking about cover, not concealment. In every example above, the clones are clearly using the objects they hide behind to deflect incoming fire, not to stay hidden from the enemy. And the objects actually do deflect the incoming attacks.

Now don't get me wrong, I agree that there are power settings on these weapons, I'm just not quite convinced that they go quite as high as advertised in this thread. Similarly there seems to be an assumption that all the weapons are capable of similar levels of firepower, but that's not indicated anywhere, indeed, if Han Solo's blaster is any evidence, then some weapons are clearly more powerful then others.
l33telboi wrote:Now then, here are a number of indicators of what we get if a blaster is used against a fleshling, most of these come from the TCW because honestly my memory from the movies are a bit on the bad side.

In AotC we have the arena sequence, where a lot of different critters are running around. One of the large ones go down to Jango and his pistol blaster by a shot to the head, which is fairly impressive, but it by no means explodes or craters the creature visibly.

In RotS we have clone troopers opening fire on various Jedi. I've seen it claimed that Jedi somehow are more resistant to blaster bolts, but I find that hard to believe (especially considering a lot of them were fired at after they were already dead). Again, no visible cratering or anything.

In ANH we see Han blasting Greedo, the incident is the single most impressive use of blasters versus fleshlings, and we can see smoke rising from the entire body. But. Greedo is not blasted to pieces, indeed he shows very little (if any) 'physical' (and by that I mean damage that would leave craters in the body and/or remove limbs) damage.

In tESB we see Han blasting a Mynock, the creature dies but it isn't blasted to pieces or visibly physically affected (remember what I said about physical damage above).

In RotJ we see Leia getting shot by a stormtrooper, but the blast merely wounds her. If this had been Han's blaster, then a glancing hit should still have heavily wounded a large portion of her side.

In the TCW episode Rookies, we see large snake-like thing get shot at by a bunch of clone troopers, but the weapons don't seem to do anything when impacting its hide. It takes a hit to the eye to kill it. Needless to say, a biological creature shouldn't be able to take hits that gouge craters in rock and what was earlier referred to as 'durasteel walls'.

In the TCW episode Bombad Jedi we see Jar-Jar summon a bigger fish. And this fish is apparently immune to blaster fire. Again, I can understand that there might be super-tough biological creatures in Star Wars, but we've already seen two? Seems more then a tad unlikely.

In the TCW episode Jedi Crash we see rhino sized critters attack clones, when Rex fires at ones paw, it gets hurt and runs away, but that paw did not explode. Later they shoot one of the critters in the head and it dies, but there's no massive physical trauma, just the curious yellow splotch that we see every now and then in the TCW.

In the TCW episode Tresspass we see what looks like very big cat-like creatures, and the clones take shots at them. It's unclear whether the one in the picture there dies, but it at least moves after getting hit a few times, and it's not blasted to pieces. We later see these same creatures die from blasters, but again, they're not visible blown apart of physically affect to any significant degree (i.e. so that it's visible).

In the same episode, we see Talz getting shot at, they clearly die, but there aren't any horrible wounds on them afterwards.

In the episode Innocents of Ryloth we see largish creatures that are completely immune even to several clones blasting at them. This would've been the perfect place to dial up the weapons, by the way.

Lastly, in the episode Hostage Crisis we see a senator getting shot point-blank, there’s that curious yellow splotch again (more on this later), but he is not visible cratered or blown to pieces.

Like I said earlier, I agree that there are variable settings, but one thing is certain. Blasters versus fleshlings is not something you want to claim as evidence for powerful blasters.
l33telboi wrote:Like I already explain in my previous post, this is not 'burning through', and it's easily provable. Indeed I already did, but your last post contained no actual reply to that particular part. What we see when something is fired at is a small yellow circle of glowing yellow light. This is all good and fine as long as the target is made out of metal, because it'd imply the metal got heated, but there are three problems when you study the incident more in-dept.

A) These yellow rings are visible on flesh and clothing, and those two things don’t glow like metal when heated.

B) This glow propagates through a person, affecting an area the shape of a cylinder. Heat doesn't do this. Heat once applied to a surface expands omni-directionally, which means that if you want heat to actually go through a person and you shot him in the back, then his entire back should be affected as much as the point penetrating all the way to the chest. But this is not the case.

C) The glow is uniform. It's as bright on the exit point as it is at the point where the bolt hit. Again, if this was heat, then the point where it hit the metal should be heated more then the other side of the object.
Last edited by l33telboi on Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by l33telboi » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:57 pm

Bump for error.

Oh, and apparently SB tags don't work here, but I'm a little too tired to fix those right now.

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Post by Enosh » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:03 pm

heh I just wanted to post this (ofcourse giving the credit to you^^) since it was a very nice read and presents the problem of the "blasters destroy rocks without problems" argument

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:13 pm

l33telboi wrote:Bump for error.

Oh, and apparently SB tags don't work here, but I'm a little too tired to fix those right now.
Yeah the " are necessary here for the quotes, and you can't use the CTRL+B/I/U either.

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Post by 2046 » Fri May 08, 2009 6:08 am

Your lists are awesome, but at the moment NoLettersHome isn't set up for a multi-episode tour de force of that nature. It's set up episode by episode as a sort of data receptacle.

If you wanted the pieces on NLH that's cool (indeed I intend to do that), or we could make a Guest Author article on ST-v-SW if you'd rather.

As for NLH, I have yet to change it to another system but continue to add to it for the time being until I make that change. I'm part of the way through the ]last Ryloth episode right now (and no, I'm not going in order).

What might be valuable is more thought on how to arrange the data. For instance, I have four main headings:

Chronological Notes
Space Notes
Ground Notes
Other Notes

"Other" is where I intend to stick Jedi observed capabilities and other such things.

For each Space section, I intend to try to have examples of each of the following:

Communications
Galactography
Drive Systems - FTL
Drive Systems - STL
Power Systems
Sensors
Shields and Hull
Space Facilities
Stratego-Tactical
Warships and Spacecraft - General
Warships and Spacecraft - Fleets
Weapons - General
Weapons - Firepower
Weapons - Range
Other

And for ground:

Armor
Droids
Communications
Power Systems
Sensors
Stratego-Tactical
Weapons - General
Weapons - Firepower
Weapons - Range
Other Vehicles
Other Republic Gear

But it feels like I'm still missing some possible topics. Ideas?[/url]

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri May 08, 2009 4:42 pm

Political factions, planets (specific and seperate from Galactography), medical technology, important people....
-Mike

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Post by Sift Green » Mon May 11, 2009 12:16 am

Another topic you should consider is morale: How do changes on the battlefield affect the Clones effectiveness? How do they affect their Jedi leaders? And how do they affect the civilians the Clones are supposed to protect?

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