Karen Traviss

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:35 am

I am reading Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice. Book five of the nine book series and find myself plotting the murder of Karen Traviss.

Y'know, the plot isn't really that bad. It might be a decent novel written by anyone else, but Karen Traviss has a tendency to make all of her female characters have the same personality, that of a petty, conceited individual, and every other character is just wrong.

She. messes. up.every. single. character.

Most of them are written with the exact same personality, and those that have their own personality are either:

1. Generic characters.

2. Previously unknown secondary characters.

3. Well Known and and incorrectly written main characters.

Like Luke Skywalker. Like Mara Jade. Like Lumyia. Like Cal Omas. Like Cha Niathal.

They. All. Come. Off. As. Arrogant. Self-absorbed. Petty. Idiots.

I HATE KAREN TRAVISS.

Although, she does a good job with Ben Skywalker, Alema Rar, Lieutenant Lekeuf, and Captain Shevu.

Still, though, what she has done with Mara and Luke's characters is unforgivable.

I'm thinking of purchasing a sniper rifle.

2046 · Post by **2046** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:59 am

Good lord, it sounds like StarDestroyer.Net in here. ;)

I haven't read any of the Traviss material, but while many EU fans eat her books with whipped cream on top it seems as if some of the tech-minded EU fans are driven absolutely bat-crap insane by her.

Wonder why that is.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:15 am

Probably because her books are terribly inconsistent and she feels as if she doesn't have to work within the lines that many other, and better, authors have established. Its almost as if she is purposely changing things so that people who actually appreciate the entire SW galaxy, and not just Boba Fett, will freak out.

I mean, one of her novels has Rodian tourists. Everyone knows that Rodians are only allowed to leave the planet to hunt or claim a bounty. That was established by Zahn. You can't just ignore things implemented by Zahn.
She wouldn't be writing these novels if it wasn't for him.

I know that every author is going to write things differently, portray certain characters differently. But for the last twenty years in the EU, authors have been developing Luke Skywalker based upon RotJ, when he grew out of his impatient, farm boy veneer, into a calm and reasoning Jedi Knight, and have made him into a compassionate and reasoning Jedi Master. Traviss completely ignores all of that work and does whatever she pleases. It just irks me.

My complaint about the characters is valid, they are not the same characters that have been seen in twenty or more previous novels. She has just changed the characters.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:02 am

Like many other authors have changed them.

Many "Warsies" also hate Kevin J. Anderson because he made it possible for 12 X-Wings to take out an ISD, because, in their view, the ISD is the ultimate warship...

people who actually appreciate the entire SW galaxy, and not just Boba Fett

Why does a guy who just shows himself to be almost as inept at combat as StormTroopers get such a fan base?
All he had was a cool looking armor and ship, and nice gadgets on his armor.
But he died because a blind smuggler hit his backpack which malfunctioned and sent him to his death.
Oh yeah, people hate George Lucas because of that too...

Basically, it seems that anybody, whether it's an author or the Flannel Man himself, who does anything to change "rabid" fans' perceptions of their favorite universe, gets a large percentage of these fans hating him/her.

That was established by Zahn. You can't just ignore things implemented by Zahn.

Yes, you can.
I too like what he did very much, but in the end, he's an author like the others, and his material has no precedence over that of anybody else, even though it is better written then most other SW books...

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:02 am

Like many other authors have changed them.

Many "Warsies" also hate Kevin J. Anderson because he made it possible for 12 X-Wings to take out an ISD, because, in their view, the ISD is the ultimate warship...

people who actually appreciate the entire SW galaxy, and not just Boba Fett

Why does a guy who just shows himself to be almost as inept at combat as StormTroopers get such a fan base?
All he had was a cool looking armor and ship, and nice gadgets on his armor.
But he died because a blind smuggler hit his backpack which malfunctioned and sent him to his death.
Oh yeah, people hate George Lucas because of that too...

Basically, it seems that anybody, whether it's an author or the Flannel Man himself, who does anything to change "rabid" fans' perceptions of their favorite universe, gets a large percentage of these fans hating him/her.

That was established by Zahn. You can't just ignore things implemented by Zahn.

Yes, you can.
I too like what he did very much, but in the end, he's an author like the others, and his material has no precedence over that of anybody else, even though it is better written then most other SW books...

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:40 am

Well, Boba Fett is alive in the EU. Which isn't impossible, since the reason for using a sarlaac for executions is the ridiculously long time it takes to actually digest you, keeping you in excruciating pain the entire time. It is crazy that everyone likes him, though.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:31 am

And how would he have been able to escape?
He no longer had a gun (Luke had cut it in half), his rocket had been used.
No cable anymore (Luke had cut it in half), and his jetpack seemed "fritzed" also.
Add to that the

excruciating pain the entire time

, and I'm truly wondering how the heck he would have been able to come out.

Not to mention the tentacles that come out and pull in naything that comes too close...

Post by **Trinoya** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:18 am

You can't just ignore things implemented by Zahn.

Because it hasn't been said enough, yes you can. Lucas ignores it all the time. In fact, the only thing you can't ignore is Lucas.

I'm pretty sure Lucas in recent years has pretty much disavowed the expanded universe as anything more than fanfiction... sorta akin to the way Star Trek views 99% of the books as fanfiction.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:26 am

I meant as far as the EU goes.

It should go without saying that Lucas couldn't give a *expletive* about Timothy Zahn and the entirety of the EU. Well, except the profits and the time he ordered the death *sob* of Chewbacca.

Who is like God arbour · Post by **Who is like God arbour** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:37 am

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:You can't just ignore things implemented by Zahn.

Maybe she thinks, as do I, that Timothy Zahn and many other EU authors have ignored higher canon, the movies and their novelizations, in the first place and therefore she doesn't feel constrained by their implementations.

Let us be honest, many EU authors have tried to rewrite Star Wars by using the fact, that some things were not explained or explicit said or denied in the movies or their novelizations.

And so, they have created a universe, that one, who knows only the movies and their novelizations, does not recognize.

And even within the canon policy of Star Wars, one would have to conclude, that, while basically accepting the EU, most of it is contradicting higher canon and therefore overruled by it and with that null and void.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:01 am

Who is like God arbour wrote:
Let us be honest, many EU authors have tried to rewrite Star Wars by using the fact, that some things were not explained or explicit said or denied in the movies or their novelizations.

Which is exactly what everyone who has ever participated in a versus debate(any versus debate) has done.

It is something that you have done to try and weaken the SW continuity.

If you are going to say that anything that is not explicitly said in the movies, not even things that were implied(which you just criticized the EU authors for), were considered canon, then there would be absolutely no point to the versus debate. The majority of it is conjecture, for both shows, and if we are omitting all conjecture the debate would have no wood for the fire.

Incidentally, if all conjecture was removed, thus killing the debate, then there would be absolutely no need for a canon policy which would mean that everything that happened in the EU would be able to be considered based on entertainment and what not, and not for technological research. Allowing the readers to make up their own minds as to its status compared to the movies therefore restoring restoring its validity...

Who is like God arbour · Post by **Who is like God arbour** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am

The problem is not, that these authors have filled the holes, but that they have filled the holes with implausible things.

That's the difference.

I haven't read many Star Trek novels. But the authors there have taken, what was shown in the movies and series and have written their novels in the same spirit. They have not invented many super weapons. They have not changed Starfleet or the UfP. And every one, who has only seen the movies or series would recognize Star Trek in it.

But the authors of Star Wars novels have tried to change Star Wars.

Look at the of Timothy Zahn invented Battle meditation and all the other super powers, that are accredited to the Jedi or Sith. We have never seen such a display of power in the first three movies, nor in the second three movies or the Clone Wars series.

Or look at all the superweapons, that have been invented by EU authors. The Death Stars were unique. The reactions of Han and all others were clear. The Death Star was not only another superweapon, one among many, but, as well in its size as in its ability, unique.

Look at the fleet size. In the battle of Endor, the most important battle at that time for the Emperor, only a few Star Destroyers are present. Not even enough to prevent, that the rebel fleet would escape after they have discovered, that the second Death Star is fully functional. Admiral Ackbar wanted to order a retreat of the fleet before Calrissian has convinced him to attack the Imperial Navy at point-blank range. That means, that Admiral Ackbar was convinced, that a retreat is possible.

But the EU authors wanted a greater fleet and thus had to explain, why there were so few ships at Endor. Their explanation: Interdictors. Those would have made it impossible for the Alliance fleet to escape and thus the few Star Destroyers and the Death Star would have been enough.

But if there are such thing like Interdictors, Admiral Ackbar would have known it and, as he has learned that it is trap after it was reported that there are enemy ships, he would have checked, if there are interdictor fields. Then he would have learned, that an escape is impossible and later would not have ordered a retreat.

Or he is stupid and has not checked, if there is an active interdiction field. But for that, there is not indication. After all, he wwas trusted enough to give him the command of the whole fleet.

And it is the same with Boba Fett. He has, for all what was shown in the movies, died. But EU authors have resurrected him. And the same with Palpatine.

It does not fit or it does need elaborate explanations to fit.

That's what I blame them for.

And that phenomenon is, as far as I can judge it, unique to Star Wars.

In all other franchises, authors, even the authors of fanfics, try to stay in the boundaries of the original work and to maintain its spirit. And those, who do not, are not regarded highly.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:34 am

The EU authors did not change the SW universe. In fact, most of the EU is made up of second rate imitations of the OT. Most novels consist of continued battle with the Empire. These novels attempted to keep with the spirit of the OT. It did not work. It got dull and boring and repetitive. So, the EU expanded the galaxy, and focused on something other than the very small amount of material that was introduced in the movies.

See, Star Wars is different from Star Trek. The premise of ST is that of adventure and discovery. They are exploring the universe. It is understood that not everything about the universe, or even the galaxy, is known. It is a very open ended storyline.

The Star Wars films and series' are about one man's life. The story ends with a rebellion defeating the tyrannical Emperor. Nothing is elaborated as to what would happen next. That was never told because Anakin Skywalker's story was over. The Clone Wars were never never really covered. We see the beginning and end, we do not see three years worth of battle. It is left out. Lucas created this galaxy with massive creative potential, and left it mainly unexplored. The main SW story line is a closed story line. But, so much of that story went untold, and there were so many opportunities for for more great stories, that the EU was created.

The EU started as a means to fill in the gaps in Lucas' story, which is something that it has done, but it has also helped the story to evolve. It has evolved into many stories, often with more complex and serious story lines than the original.

Okay, soooo...I went on a bit of a tangent, but it helped to bring home my point...I guess. The point is, that a massive potential was created by Lucas, but he decided to only tell one story. All the EU has done is to tell more stories in the same universe. Not all of the stories can feel the same because of the very specific nature of the original. Star Trek is a different situation entirely

Also, you cannot possibly believe that this is unique to the SW franchise. Look at the X-men franchise. Look at any of the comics-turned-movie franchises and video games. Look at most Japanese anime. I don't even know how many different versions of Gundam there are. Look at the Final Fantasy franchise(one of my favorites). Many, many, many, many fiction franchises elaborate upon and change the original story. It's because the creative potential was there, and it took another creative mind to see it. It also has to be popular, of course.

So, I think you'll understand if I disagree with you.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:37 am

Who is like God arbour wrote: In all other franchises, authors, even the authors of fanfics, try to stay in the boundaries of the original work and to maintain its spirit. And those, who do not, are not regarded highly.

Anyway, that is what I trying to get at in the first place. She doesn't try to stay inside the boundaries or to maintain the spirit of these main characters.

Finny how you can defend her and make my exact point in her defense.(not sarcasm, being completely serious)

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:40 am

WILGA, I know that English is not your first language, so I hope you don't mind if I tell you that you really need to work on your comma placement. Some of them are completely unnecessary. Just trying to help. :)