Star Wars/Star Trek "Must See/Read" list

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: Star Wars/Star Trek "Must See/Read" list

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:36 am

The whole Thrawn reads ur artz entirely hinges on the principle of planetary monoculture.
I'd really wish him good luck trying to fight Terran forces, especially while analyzing a piece of art which Terrans themselves wouldn't agree to recognize as art.

- '"Ceci est une pipe" is art.
- No, it's not.
- Yes it is.
- Certainly not.
- Come on. It IS art.
- Nope.
- Yes.
- Noooo.
- Is.
- Not.
- Fuck you.
- Now that...

PELLAEON: With all due respect, sir, I'd suggest we postpone our assault on this planet and its colonies, and focus our attention on a world with simpler concepts about... art.
THRAWN: This won't be necessary, captain. Observe. Their incapacity to agree on such matters will be their undoing. Their chain of command will mirror this fundamental dilemma, and we can pretty much consider that a lack of coordination in military operations is rampant within the Englandian forces.
PELLAEON: English forces, sir. That's at least how they seem to call themselves. And they're all but one country on their homeworld.
THRAWN: A kahoon-tree, you say?
PELLAEON: [English accent] Country. [/English accent] A smaller political unit based on culture, laws, language and borders, similar to a state or nation... I think. Like a planet, but the size of... err... a portion of a continent.
THRAWN: This needlessly complicates matters. Mmm... do they have a common language, at least?
PELLAEON: Nothing we managed to decipher yet, following an analysis of their common worldwide network. There are various systems. The one we chose to concentrate our intelligence on largely relies on some kind of advanced encryption; the COMPNOR staff is still working on the eluding likes of... let me see my pad... yes, codes like ROFL, LOL, STFU and WTF, whatever they're supposed to mean.

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Re: Star Wars/Star Trek "Must See/Read" list

Post by Praeothmin » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:06 pm

ROFL... :)

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Re: Star Wars/Star Trek "Must See/Read" list

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:41 pm

That's a great one Mr. Oragahn. All kidding aside, I would assume that the "monoculture" we see in many sci-fi races stems out of the need for the planet as a whole to be united at some point, and what we see does not necessarily represent the diverse cultures that are still there, but subordinate to the "overculture" and it's addendant language that allows everyone to work together for a common cause. With Vulcan I can see where the overculture nearly totally wiped out the more diverse ones because Surak's philosphy of logic and peace would be incompatible with them.
-Mike

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Mith
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Re:

Post by Mith » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:20 am

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:You prefer the Original Trilogy fight scenes. Whaaat?(incredulous voice)
Even the Darth Vader Obi-wan snore fest where Vader had to wait for Obi-wan to finish his three year long spin? The fact that the guy in the Vader suit had no flexibility(because of the suit's restrictions) and couldn't really move around, does not affect your opinion? Those fights are almost laughable. The space battle are probably better than the PT, though.
Google Redlettermedia and check out his Clone Wars review.

But to sum up the reason why someone would enjoy it more? Because there's suspense. Sure, the fighting moves are bad, but what the characters are doing actually matters. They have depth to them, they're not some passionless, lightsaber wankfest for the fanboys.

It's more about why they're fighting than what happens during the fight. The fighting style of both actors may have been bad, but it carried a greater sense of purpose because it had one. The characters acted like it was a big deal, there was danger.

Look as the new series. Every single fight save for maybe Revenge of the Sith, had next to no emotion to it. The characters practically sounded bored throughout the battle. And even when Obi-Wan or Anakin are pissed, they never, ever lose their composure. They never start hammering away at their enemies like Luke did.

And it's because the NT characters have no depth or personality. They're just walking cardboard cutouts. They're monotone. Every. Single. One. And that's because Lucas is a washed up hack who cares more about his competition, making things look good, and has no understanding of the human psyche.

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Re:

Post by Mith » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:33 am

l33telboi wrote:
Praeothmin wrote:Depends on who's writing.
Two novels where the fight scenes are extremelly well depictied are the AotC novelisation, and Vector Prime, both by R.A. Salvatore (creator of Drizz't Do'Urden in the Forgotten realms).
His fight scenes are always imaginative, and franckly, the way he describes the fight scenes between Dooku and Obi-Wan and Anakin is the way it should have been shown on film: not the flashy sword-twirling like we saw, but Dooku should have been shown as a master fencer (Christopher Lee is repudedly a fine swordsman himself) facing two "blaster-bolt deflectors".
Dooku should have moved with an economy of movements the other two couldn't match.
Anyways, the fights are really good in these novels... ;)
Bah! I've read all those. Even the Forgotten Realms novels (would you believe it if I said I've read more fantasy novels then sci-fi ones?). But same thing applies to both the SW novels there. The fighting... everything... just seems like it's missing something when you can't see it.

See, here's the thing, let's take two token battles from two different franchises, a Star Wars fight is usually described like this:

"Bleeblop Blupper fired his blaster at his enemy, and so Blipper Bleppor fell to the ground, dead."

(The fact that people in SW novels always have weird names doesn't help either.) Now let's compare that to a franchise which actually has interesting battles, say WH40K:

"Captain Loken drew his mighty bolter and aimed it at Little-Horus Axiamand. There was no mercy in his eyes as he pressed down on the trigger. The weapon roared to life, hurling exploding bolts of death towards the betrayer. Horus's body exploded in a massive orgy of blood and gore as his soul was torn from his heretical body."

See. There's just something about Star Wars that doesn't work on paper. The weapons are just... bland and uninteresting. There's no real way to describe a weapon that goes *pew* *pew* *pew* and shoots bolts of red 'lasers' in a compelling way. It needs more Dakka. In visual material it still looks somewhat cool though.
Hmmm, how about this?

Jane's fingers wrapped around the cold metal handle. Spitting a curse she pulled it free from her hoister and aimed it at the Jedi, her finger pulling back as the blaster spat out bright red bolts, baking the air. The Jedi was a blur, the bright green blade flashing to and fro as he met each bolt, sparks hissing as he redirected them into the walls, floor, and ceiling. One however, he sent back at her--no, her blaster! It connected with the weapon, blasting its forward barrel into bright red molten fragments and tearing the rest of it out of her hand.
Jane hit the ground, red hot shrapnel burried deep in her arm, her right leg, and her chest. Even with her glove, the splash of plasma had burned away sections of her hand. She lay on the ground, defenseless at the Jedi's feet as she clutched her wounded hand, waiting for the end.
"Perhaps now," the Jedi said, "you will be more cooperative."

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Re: Re:

Post by Praeothmin » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:08 pm

Mith wrote:
l33telboi wrote:
Praeothmin wrote:Depends on who's writing.
Two novels where the fight scenes are extremelly well depictied are the AotC novelisation, and Vector Prime, both by R.A. Salvatore (creator of Drizz't Do'Urden in the Forgotten realms).
His fight scenes are always imaginative, and franckly, the way he describes the fight scenes between Dooku and Obi-Wan and Anakin is the way it should have been shown on film: not the flashy sword-twirling like we saw, but Dooku should have been shown as a master fencer (Christopher Lee is repudedly a fine swordsman himself) facing two "blaster-bolt deflectors".
Dooku should have moved with an economy of movements the other two couldn't match.
Anyways, the fights are really good in these novels... ;)
Bah! I've read all those. Even the Forgotten Realms novels (would you believe it if I said I've read more fantasy novels then sci-fi ones?). But same thing applies to both the SW novels there. The fighting... everything... just seems like it's missing something when you can't see it.

See, here's the thing, let's take two token battles from two different franchises, a Star Wars fight is usually described like this:

"Bleeblop Blupper fired his blaster at his enemy, and so Blipper Bleppor fell to the ground, dead."

(The fact that people in SW novels always have weird names doesn't help either.) Now let's compare that to a franchise which actually has interesting battles, say WH40K:

"Captain Loken drew his mighty bolter and aimed it at Little-Horus Axiamand. There was no mercy in his eyes as he pressed down on the trigger. The weapon roared to life, hurling exploding bolts of death towards the betrayer. Horus's body exploded in a massive orgy of blood and gore as his soul was torn from his heretical body."

See. There's just something about Star Wars that doesn't work on paper. The weapons are just... bland and uninteresting. There's no real way to describe a weapon that goes *pew* *pew* *pew* and shoots bolts of red 'lasers' in a compelling way. It needs more Dakka. In visual material it still looks somewhat cool though.
Hmmm, how about this?

Jane's fingers wrapped around the cold metal handle. Spitting a curse she pulled it free from her hoister and aimed it at the Jedi, her finger pulling back as the blaster spat out bright red bolts, baking the air. The Jedi was a blur, the bright green blade flashing to and fro as he met each bolt, sparks hissing as he redirected them into the walls, floor, and ceiling. One however, he sent back at her--no, her blaster! It connected with the weapon, blasting its forward barrel into bright red molten fragments and tearing the rest of it out of her hand.
Jane hit the ground, red hot shrapnel burried deep in her arm, her right leg, and her chest. Even with her glove, the splash of plasma had burned away sections of her hand. She lay on the ground, defenseless at the Jedi's feet as she clutched her wounded hand, waiting for the end.
"Perhaps now," the Jedi said, "you will be more cooperative."

That's how Salvatore writes (ok, he's better, but its similar)...
His fight scenes are vivid, imaginative, and full or enrgy.

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Re: Re:

Post by Khas » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:29 pm

Praeothmin wrote: ... and full or enrgy.
Careful how you type, Praeothmin. You don't want your posts ending up looking like Jason's, do you? ;)

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Re: Re:

Post by Praeothmin » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:34 pm

Khas wrote:
Praeothmin wrote: ... and full or enrgy.
Careful how you type, Praeothmin. You don't want your posts ending up looking like Jason's, do you? ;)
Damn, been found out...
Ok, everyone, I admit, I'm really Jason in disguise... :)

Owe deed yhou nowe eet wuz mi, Khas?
Aye nowe put de smell dee-tale de nheed-ed two...

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Mith
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Re: Re:

Post by Mith » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:23 pm

Praeothmin wrote:
Mith wrote: Hmmm, how about this?

Jane's fingers wrapped around the cold metal handle. Spitting a curse she pulled it free from her hoister and aimed it at the Jedi, her finger pulling back as the blaster spat out bright red bolts, baking the air. The Jedi was a blur, the bright green blade flashing to and fro as he met each bolt, sparks hissing as he redirected them into the walls, floor, and ceiling. One however, he sent back at her--no, her blaster! It connected with the weapon, blasting its forward barrel into bright red molten fragments and tearing the rest of it out of her hand.
Jane hit the ground, red hot shrapnel burried deep in her arm, her right leg, and her chest. Even with her glove, the splash of plasma had burned away sections of her hand. She lay on the ground, defenseless at the Jedi's feet as she clutched her wounded hand, waiting for the end.
"Perhaps now," the Jedi said, "you will be more cooperative."

That's how Salvatore writes (ok, he's better, but its similar)...
His fight scenes are vivid, imaginative, and full of energy.
No wait, seriously?

That's how I write my scenes. I mean, they're a bit more polished and I admit I don't have much experience with this sort of thing...but it's like Salvator?

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Re: Star Wars/Star Trek "Must See/Read" list

Post by Praeothmin » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:48 pm

There are some differences, but essentially your styles are full of life and interesting to read...

By the way, you have a Fanfic at ASVS that's needing to continue...
Get to it... Now!



;)

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Re: Star Wars/Star Trek "Must See/Read" list

Post by Mith » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:46 pm

Praeothmin wrote:There are some differences, but essentially your styles are full of life and interesting to read...
Ah, I see.

Although truthfully, Salvatore is best with sword combat scenes. He really knows how it works, where as my knowledge is less complete. He's actually talked about how he watched people fence so he could understand the importance of footing and so on.
By the way, you have a Fanfic at ASVS that's needing to continue...
Get to it... Now!
Hmm, I have been meaning to finish the second chapter. I've just been so caught up in my novel. Although, since I am a bit burned out on the novel (I'm a perfectonist I think--I can't let it go until it's perfect) I could try and finish it up. Shouldn't take too long.

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: Re:

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:14 am

Mith wrote: Look as the new series. Every single fight save for maybe Revenge of the Sith, had next to no emotion to it. The characters practically sounded bored throughout the battle. And even when Obi-Wan or Anakin are pissed, they never, ever lose their composure. They never start hammering away at their enemies like Luke did.
ROTS:

zwap fwoosh lava burst wah wah wah zwip zwap vwoomp clash lava burst priitshkrsh angry eyes me you me you my empire lava burst zwip fwoosh ouch i hate you sir gg found a new lightsaber +100 xp...

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Re: Star Wars/Star Trek "Must See/Read" list

Post by Khas » Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:36 pm

I believe this webcomic sums up ROTS pretty nicely...

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Mith
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Re: Re:

Post by Mith » Mon May 03, 2010 4:52 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Mith wrote: Look as the new series. Every single fight save for maybe Revenge of the Sith, had next to no emotion to it. The characters practically sounded bored throughout the battle. And even when Obi-Wan or Anakin are pissed, they never, ever lose their composure. They never start hammering away at their enemies like Luke did.
ROTS:

zwap fwoosh lava burst wah wah wah zwip zwap vwoomp clash lava burst priitshkrsh angry eyes me you me you my empire lava burst zwip fwoosh ouch i hate you sir gg found a new lightsaber +100 xp...
I didn't say it was good. It was like a tween got his panties in a bunch and was taking it out on his teacher--and got his ass handed to him.

EDIT: Also, angsty teens are only worth 50 xp

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Re: Star Wars/Star Trek "Must See/Read" list

Post by Picard » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:36 pm

As it is probably about discussion, this is what I used on my blog:

SW
All 6 movies
All movie novelizations

ST
All TNG movies

Episodes:

TNG:
"Gambit part 1"
"The Chase"
"Silicon Avatar"
"The Wounded"
"Masks"
"Arsenal of Freedom"
"Chain of Command"
"The Mind's Eye"
"Best of Both Worlds"
"True Q"
"Peak Performance"

DS9:
"Statistical Probabilities"
"Die is Cast"
"Sacrifice of Angels"
"A Time to Stand"
"The Siege"
"Waltz"
"By Inferno's Light"
"The Jem'Hadar"

VOY:
"Caretaker"
"Year of Hell"
"Nightingale part 1"
"Timeless"
"Fair Haven"

TOS:
"Yourney to Babel"
"Dagger of the Mind"
"A Taste of Armageddon"
"Whom Gods Destroy"
"The Ultimate Computer"
"The Galileo Seven"

ENT:
"In A Mirror Darkly"

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