Starfleet Jedi

I'm not sure how many people here know about Mass Effect yet, or even if anyone here has played the game (or read the novel), but I thought it was high time we pitched the ‘verse against a roughly similarly powered one.

The contestants are the Xindi and the Systems Alliance.

Here are a few rules for the debate:
- The war will be between the Systems Alliance and the Xindi only, no other races from either verse will interfere in any way.
- The two factions will somehow exist in the same verse, no wormholes linking two universes in this scenario.
- The war will start exactly as it did in Enterprise. The Xindi are convinced the humans are a threat and thus deploy a probe to destroy earth.
- The sphere builders will help in building the doomsday device, but that's it. Similarly the future feds will tip the SA off that it's the Xindi who attacked them, but that's it.
- The expanse will not exist in this scenario, Xindi territory is located in normal space.
- The doomsday device will be a one shot weapon, it can destroy earth but that’s it. And only if the Systems Alliance doesn’t disable it first.

So, both sides declare war on each other and decide to fight until the other faction has been exterminated down to the last member of its species.

Who wins? And how do you envision such a war would play out?

The Xindi disable or relocate the mass effect generators for the win. By removing the ability for FTL travel they essentially end the war before it starts.

Also, there would be no way to wage war against the Xindi if they move off the M.E.R network. Meaning they could wage war at their own leisure.

Trinoya wrote:The Xindi disable or relocate the mass effect generators for the win. By removing the ability for FTL travel they essentially end the war before it starts.

Also, there would be no way to wage war against the Xindi if they move off the M.E.R network. Meaning they could wage war at their own leisure.

The Systems Alliance does have the ability to travel without the help of the Mass Relays, it's just that they're very slow. Their shipboard FTL drives clock in around 100c to 200c. While mass Relay Travel is instantaneous and have a range measured in thousands of lightyears.

And relocating or disabling Mass Relays is probably not that easy. Considering they're said to be made of the same stuff the Citadel is, which in turn is said to be near indestructible to Mass Effect weaponry, which does include anti-matter missiles, though they aren't used in ship-to-ship combat operations. Heck, the Mu Relay was hit by a supernova and flung out of its star system. And of course, there are more then just a few of these things in the galaxy. Both secondary and primary relays.

The Xindi have several huge advantages here with their superfast ship-generated FTL conduits that allow them to travel 50-100 light years distances in a matter of hours.

- The superweapon being a one-shot weapon only kind of defeats the serious threat of the Xindi as it comes down to just fleet-versus-fleet actions.

- Also removing the Sphere Builders (SBs for short) and the Expanse removes the big justification and a major advantage for the Xindi as far as the war itself is concerned. The Xindi would never have attacked Earth in ST:ENT without the SBs' manipulations, and I see no reason for them wanting to fight with the Systems Alliance, either without that manipulation.

- The Systems Alliance does have the advantage in ground or boarding action combat with their advanced hardsuit armor (particluarly the Kinetic Barriers), biotics, and hand weapons (the mass accelerators are nasty!).

Are we to presume that the goal of the Mass Effect cast is to seek out the Xindi superweapon before it is completed ala the ST:ENT story arc? Or is it already completed, or very near completion?
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:The Xindi have several huge advantages here with their superfast ship-generated FTL conduits that allow them to travel 50-100 light years distances in a matter of hours.

Indeed. They can move without the aid of the Mass Relay network. But keep in mind that the Mass Relay network is also faster. Primary relays are said to instantly propel ships thousands of lightyears and secondary ones can propel you hundreds of lightyears.

But like I said this is also limited to the MR network, which means that there will be large tracts of space that the Xindi could use to maneuver in without fear of being intercepted by Alliance fleets.

The superweapon being a one-shot weapon only kind of defeats the serious threat of the Xindi as it comes down to just fleet-versus-fleet actions.

You'd think that losing earth would be quite a major blow for the Systems Alliance. In any case, the reason I limited it to one use is because there's no real way to know how often it could be used or how many would be built if it was allowed to be used on a larger scale.

Also removing the Sphere Builders (SBs for short) and the Expanse removes the big justification and a major advantage for the Xindi as far as the war itself is concerned. The Xindi would never have attacked Earth in ST:ENT without the SBs' manipulations, and I see no reason for them wanting to fight with the Systems Alliance, either without that manipulation.

Well, in this case the SBs are still manipulating the Xindi into attacking. They just won't help beyond building that first planet killer sphere. And the reason the expanse is removed is because it's very difficult to predict how the Systems Alliance would deal with it. Would they find a way to protect themselves against the anomalies, etc?

The Systems Alliance does have the advantage in ground or boarding action combat with their advanced hardsuit armor (particluarly the Kinetic Barriers), biotics, and hand weapons (the mass accelerators are nasty!).

Indeed. But keep in mind that kinetic barriers don't stop particle weaponry, which will mean the weapons the Xindi use will be rather effective against them.

Are we to presume that the goal of the Mass Effect cast is to seek out the Xindi superweapon before it is completed ala the ST:ENT story arc? Or is it already completed, or very near completion?

This isn't really a one-ship-against-all-odds scenario. The Systems Alliance will definitely try to stop the Xindi from building the weapon, but they’ll most likely do so with larger fleets and not singular vessels. They'll be faced with the same problems Starfleet had, of course. They won't know where it is or even when it will be completed. But since this starts the same way it did in Enterprise, it means the weapon will be completed and ready to launch in about a year after the first attack. Assuming things play out roughly similarly to what happened in Enterprise.

But like I said this is also limited to the MR network, which means that there will be large tracts of space that the Xindi could use to maneuver in without fear of being intercepted by Alliance fleets.

This seems to be the decisive end all be all of this scenario.

In addition to this... although the M.E.Rs are as tough as the Citidel, it is stated that it would take several days of bombardment to seriously damage them... several days the Xindi will have.

Xindi have Speed + Location + comparable weaponry. These three factors give them the win.

Mike DiCenso wrote: The Xindi have several huge advantages here with their superfast ship-generated FTL conduits that allow them to travel 50-100 light years distances in a matter of hours.

l33telboi wrote: Indeed. They can move without the aid of the Mass Relay network. But keep in mind that the Mass Relay network is also faster. Primary relays are said to instantly propel ships thousands of lightyears and secondary ones can propel you hundreds of lightyears.

But like I said this is also limited to the MR network, which means that there will be large tracts of space that the Xindi could use to maneuver in without fear of being intercepted by Alliance fleets.

Then in many of the ship-to-ship combat scenarios, the Xindi fleets will be very tough to handle as they have the advantage of being able to do either warp drive, or the conduits via their own ships' self-contained drive systems.

l33telboi wrote: You'd think that losing earth would be quite a major blow for the Systems Alliance. In any case, the reason I limited it to one use is because there's no real way to know how often it could be used or how many would be built if it was allowed to be used on a larger scale.

It was clearly stated that in addition to Earth that Mars, Alpha Centauri, and Vega were destroyed, too. The Xindi fleet hunted down and wiped out all but one refugee convoy.

Mike DiCenso wrote:

Also removing the Sphere Builders (SBs for short) and the Expanse removes the big justification and a major advantage for the Xindi as far as the war itself is concerned. The Xindi would never have attacked Earth in ST:ENT without the SBs' manipulations, and I see no reason for them wanting to fight with the Systems Alliance, either without that manipulation.

l33telboi wrote:Well, in this case the SBs are still manipulating the Xindi into attacking. They just won't help beyond building that first planet killer sphere. And the reason the expanse is removed is because it's very difficult to predict how the Systems Alliance would deal with it. Would they find a way to protect themselves against the anomalies, etc?

The SA would do the way the NX-01 one did by itself; by finding, mining, and then lining their hulls with Trellium-D.

Mike DiCenso wrote: The Systems Alliance does have the advantage in ground or boarding action combat with their advanced hardsuit armor (particluarly the Kinetic Barriers), biotics, and hand weapons (the mass accelerators are nasty!).

l33telboi wrote: Indeed. But keep in mind that kinetic barriers don't stop particle weaponry, which will mean the weapons the Xindi use will be rather effective against them.

Possibly. But having armor means that they will still have good, effective protection for their troops.

Mike DiCenso wrote: Are we to presume that the goal of the Mass Effect cast is to seek out the Xindi superweapon before it is completed ala the ST:ENT story arc? Or is it already completed, or very near completion?

l33telboi wrote:This isn't really a one-ship-against-all-odds scenario. The Systems Alliance will definitely try to stop the Xindi from building the weapon, but they’ll most likely do so with larger fleets and not singular vessels. They'll be faced with the same problems Starfleet had, of course. They won't know where it is or even when it will be completed. But since this starts the same way it did in Enterprise, it means the weapon will be completed and ready to launch in about a year after the first attack. Assuming things play out roughly similarly to what happened in Enterprise.

I still think that the Mass Effect cast taking the NX-01's place in searching for the weapon is very doable, and frees up most of the SA fleet, which will likely be tied up in protecting member planets from the Xindi fleet, and eventually the superweapon once it is deployed.
-Mike