The Daleks so far have shown they are quite willing to engage the Doctor. Secondly, while the Daleks in the episode you are refering to where acting somewhat nervous about the prospect of the Doctor showing up, their leader at the time (the emperor) most definitely was not!GStone wrote:In the ep before this one in question, I only remember one that could emergency temporal shift. All the others were drawn to the thing that the Doctor and Rose built that used the Torchwood equipment. Though, it might have been an ability given to the other 2 at some point. But, I still might be wrong and all of them could temporal shift. However, that makes me wonder. If they all could, why didn't they do that when the Eccleston Doctor yelled he was coming for them?Roondar wrote:I mean the one after the depression. There where three Daleks present so at least these three had the technology. And since Daleks are continously shown as a timetravelling species I don't consider it to be too much of a stretch to assume this is just part of what later-day Daleks where capable of.
Which, may or may not extend to them being able to breach Dalek shielding. Note that the Daleks are not exactly new at this whole timetravel thing and that even species who make it their business to control time (i.e. the Timelords) where not capable to stopping the Daleks temporal tech.And the borg do have experience with temporal sensors and chroniton fields.For all we know Dalek shields use temporal technology.
Ergo, the Borg, which have so far shown only rudimentary levels of controlling time compared to the Daleks might actually be able to spot they are using time tech but this does not mean they can actually penetrate it.
Errrm, no they aren't. Matter and Energy, while convertable, are not the same thing. It is theoretically possible to have particles without any energy.Energy is made up of energy and particles are made up of energy.Or use actual energy instead of particles. Or are, conversely very tight particlefields.
<shrug> Even if that is the case, you still won nothing.Typically, if something is gonna interact with a particular universe, it's gonna involve energy, which will need a quantum resonance for interacting with that specific universe.Or a million other things which may, or may not have quantum resonance frequencies.
We don't know the resonance frequencies of Dalek weapons and shields. For all we know they are never the same or out of range of the Borgs ability to adapt to. Which, considering the Borg are definitely beatable by energy weapons, is not too far a stretch.
Bzzzzt!Which wouldn't be required.In other words, we can't be sure they use energy in the same way...
1) The Borg showed a remarkable lack of adaptability to Species 8472. Which used quite plain forms of energy in their ship-ship weapons.
2) The Federation where able to merely adapt the frequency of their shields to nearly completely be able to stop Borg weapons. By the time of FC they had in fact visually perfected this ability with the Borg slugging it out in quite normal means instead of ignoring shields alltogether like they where capable of in earlier engagements.
So yes, it actually does matter how the Daleks use energy to be able to tell wether or not Borg can penetrate Dalek shielding or adapt to Dalek weapons.
A few points:I was speaking of types of shielding. Trek force fields in corridors, for instance, as well as those used in the brig, are walls of electrons. Seven was shown to walk right through when her implants reactivated. We've seen borg cube shields block the brute force energy attack of the E-D's deflector dish spitting out the warp core energy in one enormous blast and they weren't bothered because they knew how to protect themselves because of what Picard knew. We've also seen them adapt to the particle streams fired by phasers. And I forget the ep, but the holodoc said the tubules could get through any known energy field or material at the time.Also note that claiming the Borg can adapt to any type of shielding and any energy level of shielding (or otherwise) is a) shown to be false in various Startrek episodes and b) a no limits fallacacy.
The only one that's been shown to have a real effectiveness against the borg is 8472 and nanobots, but only because of the speed that their immune systems attack the nanobots.
1) You idea that Trek/Borg forcefields are walls of electrons is just that, an idea. It could actually be something else entirely since we never get to hear the mechanisms of the fields on the show. They certainly don't act like a high capacity field of electrons would on people.
2) The brute force attack by the Enterprise was anticipated. Considering the size of the ships in question it is not too odd to assume the Borg could just project a shield which generated more power than the Enterprise could in response. Secondly, the brute force attack by the Enterprise was not quite brute force. There was quite a bit of technobabble leading up to it's deployment.
3) Adapting to phasers particles means nothing. It is known that phasers use, regardless of any other setting, a specific technobabble particle. To block a phaser one would only need a way to block that single particle. Note that there is no way of knowing if blocking nadions will be easier than blocking whatever the Daleks use. And again, we've seen the Borg being unable to adapt to a variety of energyweapons and sources so it is quite clear Borg adaptation has it's limits.
4) The Holodoc was speaking from his knowledge. He does not know about Daleks. Since the Daleks might have entirely different technologies in place and entirely different materials in use than anything he knows about this means absolutly nothing about Dalek materials and shielding and how the Borg would interact with them. Please remember that Daleks where able to construct materials which where there, yet not there which made them impregnable to anything the Doctor could figure out.
5) Daleks have shown they are able of some quite funky DNA tricks in their own bodies so it's not quite sure if nanoprobes will actually succeed in overwriting their DNA. Not too mention most Daleks choose death before contamination so even if you do get in nanoprobes they can always still self destruct (after all, assimilation does take a bit of time during which the subjects in question do still show free will).
We've never seen them assimilate anyone that way though. In fact, Borgs have shown a remarkable lack of assimilating people without getting in say, 20 cm or so of their skin. Dalek armour is visually thicker than that.I don't think an unopened tin can would be good, since we've known them to alter solid material into borg pieces, which is probably how they get through solid barriers.I was refering to their armour suit being vacuumproof (as well as obviously not made out of something pierced easilly by other means) i.e. not letting air or other substances through. The Borg use these nanoprobes for assimilation, which so far have never seen to be able to work without direct contact with the skin of the subject. Hence I'd say a tin can without openings is plenty of defense.
Secondly, the Borg could just fire nanoprobe weapons at unshielded starships if it really was that simple. We know they have the tech to do so but they never do use a weapon like that. Even though it would make perfect sense to do so.
And again, there is no way to know if Borgs can actually breach Dalek armour. They might have the capability and yet, they might not. Dalek material science is obviously quite far ahead of that of the Federation. Assuming Dalek materials to be equally vulnerable to Borg attack is just that, an assumption.