Sublight engines in ST, SW and SG which ones are the best?

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PunkMaister
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Sublight engines in ST, SW and SG which ones are the best?

Post by PunkMaister » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:46 am

Of the sublight engines that these 3 franchises have to offer which ones are the best, fastest and more reliable?

How fast does a Trek shuttlepod can travel?

We know that a Death Glider can reach Jupiter in a few hours and that a Puddle Jumper can reach the edge of a planetary system the size of our own solar system in about 8 hours or so. We know the MF in TESB had to travel at sublight speed to reach the planet where Lando Calrissian was but does anyone know how far it was from their location and just how long it took them to reach it?

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Post by Cocytus » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:05 am

For the Death Glider, how many hours is a few? (I know nothing of SG)

The refit Enterprise reached Jupiter 1.8 hours from launch in TMP. The E-B in Generations expected to go out to Pluto and back, which was described as "just a quick run around the block."

Harriman:Our course today will take us out beyond Pluto, and then back to Spacedock. Just a quick run around the block.

So the E-B was expected to make the trip in less than a day.

The fastest shuttle trip I can think of is the Delta Flyer from "Drive," which speeds to a nebula, described as being "1.2 million kilometers from here" dumps its damaged core, and makes it back out before the core blows, all at sublight speed.

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Re: Sublight engines in ST, SW and SG which ones are the bes

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:13 am

PunkMaister wrote: How fast does a Trek shuttlepod can travel?
You mean a shuttlecraft, don't you as a shuttlepod usually refers to the relatively primitive shuttlepods used by the mid-22nd century NX-01 Enterprise crew to get from ship-to-shore and vice versa.
PunkMaister wrote: We know the MF in TESB had to travel at sublight speed to reach the planet where Lando Calrissian was but does anyone know how far it was from their location and just how long it took them to reach it?
Unknown what the distance was, nor how long it actually took the Falcon to make the trip so it's a useless data point.
-Mike

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Post by PunkMaister » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:29 am

Cocytus wrote:For the Death Glider, how many hours is a few? (I know nothing of SG)

The refit Enterprise reached Jupiter 1.8 hours from launch in TMP. The E-B in Generations expected to go out to Pluto and back, which was described as "just a quick run around the block."

Harriman:Our course today will take us out beyond Pluto, and then back to Spacedock. Just a quick run around the block.

So the E-B was expected to make the trip in less than a day.

The fastest shuttle trip I can think of is the Delta Flyer from "Drive," which speeds to a nebula, described as being "1.2 million kilometers from here" dumps its damaged core, and makes it back out before the core blows, all at sublight speed.

I do not recall anyone in generations saying that the trip around tht block in Generations was to be in sublight speeds. They could have just as easily meant going to warp to the edge of the system and then back to nearby spacedock.

The Death Glider took about 2 hours or so to reach Jupiter as I recall,

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Post by Cocytus » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:41 am

Except that we've seen a general aversion to warp travel within solar systems, except when absolutely necessary.

From TMP:

Kirk: 1.8 hours from launch, we must now risk engaging warp drive while still within the solar system.

And from "By Inferno's Light:"

Kira: We have to use the tractor beams
Dax: We're too far
Kira: Wanna bet? Take us to warp.
Dax: Inside a solar system?

The quick run around the block didn't merit the use of warp within the solar system. Only emergency situations seem to. When they received the Lakul's distress call, it became an emergency sitation, and they left at warp speed (and they were certainly still in the solar system at that point.)

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:46 am

Cocytus wrote:For the Death Glider, how many hours is a few? (I know nothing of SG)

The refit Enterprise reached Jupiter 1.8 hours from launch in TMP. The E-B in Generations expected to go out to Pluto and back, which was described as "just a quick run around the block."

Harriman:Our course today will take us out beyond Pluto, and then back to Spacedock. Just a quick run around the block.

So the E-B was expected to make the trip in less than a day.

The fastest shuttle trip I can think of is the Delta Flyer from "Drive," which speeds to a nebula, described as being "1.2 million kilometers from here" dumps its damaged core, and makes it back out before the core blows, all at sublight speed.
There is the E-D's trip from just beyond Saturn to Earth in "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II" in 19 minutes, which if we assume that timing was the result of relativistic effects, the E-D is making at least .95c.
-Mike

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Post by PunkMaister » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:47 am

Cocytus wrote:Except that we've seen a general aversion to warp travel within solar systems, except when absolutely necessary.

From TMP:

Kirk: 1.8 hours from launch, we must now risk engaging warp drive while still within the solar system.

And from "By Inferno's Light:"

Kira: We have to use the tractor beams
Dax: We're too far
Kira: Wanna bet? Take us to warp.
Dax: Inside a solar system?

The quick run around the block didn't merit the use of warp within the solar system. Only emergency situations seem to. When they received the Lakul's distress call, it became an emergency sitation, and they left at warp speed.
Since Warp is not affected by gravity wells one has but to wonder what is this risk they talk about.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:46 am

Those two examples are considered statistical outliers since we have many, many numerous examples of ships in all 5 series and the movies jumping to warp inside solar systems and warping into them, and rather routinely at that.
-Mike

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Post by Cocytus » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:39 am

True, there are many examples. But the important factor is not how frequently it occurs, but the circumstances under which it occurs. Just going off the films:

In ST3, the commandeered Enterprise warps out of low-earth orbit to avoid capture by the Excelsior and, by extension, the imprisonment and trial of everyone on board. And they had to save Spock, of course.

In ST4, the BoP performs the decidedly uncommon time travel slingshot maneuver as part of a mission to do nothing less than save earth.

In ST5, the unshielded E-A (it was picking up the shuttle) warps out the Nimbus system to avoid a Klingon torpedo.

In ST6, the E-A drops out of warp in-system en route to intercept Chang and prevent a presidential assassination (and possible war).

In STG, the E-B warps out of the system to intercept the Lakul, which had issued a distress call. The ship is beyond the asteroid belt at this point.

In STFC, the E-E exits warp in-system quite close to earth to assist the fleet against the Borg.

In STN, the E-E warps out of low-Romulus orbit to escape the far superior Scimitar.

All of those situations can be justifiably called emergencies, involving direct threats to the ship, its mission, or another object of interest. The question now is how many of those occurrences take place under "situation normal" circumstances.

As an aside, I'm presenting the "in-system warp risk" because canon evidence suggests there is some sort of risk. Offhand, I've no idea what it might be. Crashing into an object at warp seems highly unlikely, given the deflector and warp speed maneuverability, or just the sheer distances involved. The asteroid belt just isn't all that dense. Every spacecraft we've sent through it has survived unharmed. The Oort Cloud and Kuiper Belts wouldn't present any sort of barrier to a starship, since estimates of Oort Cloud density place constituent comets many millions of kilometers apart. Radiation? Magnetic fields? The Defiant warps right up the Bajoran sun, the biggest source of both in any system, so I don't buy that either. You know, it's probably more of those good engineers being "a wee bit conservative, at least on paper."

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Post by PunkMaister » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:35 pm

Cocytus wrote:As an aside, I'm presenting the "in-system warp risk" because canon evidence suggests there is some sort of risk. Offhand, I've no idea what it might be. Crashing into an object at warp seems highly unlikely, given the deflector and warp speed maneuverability, or just the sheer distances involved. The asteroid belt just isn't all that dense. Every spacecraft we've sent through it has survived unharmed. The Oort Cloud and Kuiper Belts wouldn't present any sort of barrier to a starship, since estimates of Oort Cloud density place constituent comets many millions of kilometers apart. Radiation? Magnetic fields? The Defiant warps right up the Bajoran sun, the biggest source of both in any system, so I don't buy that either. You know, it's probably more of those good engineers being "a wee bit conservative, at least on paper."
Most likely is a result of the writing ineptitude of Berman and Braga.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:24 pm

Which belongs often to neither of those two. The DS9 example and the ST:TMP had no involvement whatsoever by Berman and Braga (neither were there working on Trek in the 1970's and Berman wisely left DS9 alone to Ron Moore and Robert Wolfe).
-Mike
Last edited by Mike DiCenso on Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by PunkMaister » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:57 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:Which belongs often to neither of those two. The DS9 example and the ST:TMP had no involvement whatsoever by by Berman and Braga (neither were there working on Trek in the 1970's and Berman wisely left DS9 alone to Ron Moore and Robert Wolfe).
-Mike
Well regardless of the source there is an alleged risk that no one knows what is about only that there is! Is almost like the proverbial falling of the "Limits" of the Earth if you traveled beyond the horizon when people thought the world was flat.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:51 am

Cocytus wrote:True, there are many examples. But the important factor is not how frequently it occurs, but the circumstances under which it occurs. Just going off the films:
Except that still does not explain the many more numerous examples of routine warping in and out of solar systems throughout the five TV series.
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Post by PunkMaister » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:23 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Cocytus wrote:True, there are many examples. But the important factor is not how frequently it occurs, but the circumstances under which it occurs. Just going off the films:
Except that still does not explain the many more numerous examples of routine warping in and out of solar systems throughout the five TV series.
-Mike
My point exactly where is this danger that we keep hearing when we see ships routinely warping thru solar systems.

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Post by Cocytus » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:13 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Cocytus wrote:True, there are many examples. But the important factor is not how frequently it occurs, but the circumstances under which it occurs. Just going off the films:
Except that still does not explain the many more numerous examples of routine warping in and out of solar systems throughout the five TV series.
-Mike
Well, I went over what could NOT have accounted for any risk, and since I'm really not interested in going through all my DVDs over this little point, "good engineers" is good enough for me. "Don't go to warp in-system" fits in pretty well with "don't shunt the deuterium from the main cryo pump to the auxiliary tank" (Relics) and "faster than light, no left or right" (Fury) as one of those bits of conservative wisdom that captains can just ignore.

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