The Culture versus the UFP & Allies

[Clear Air Turbulence]

Thanks for the welcome

[Mizu]

Hello everyone. I got sent a link to this thread, and after reading it, I just had to register an account!

My view is that given the circumstances as originally laid out, the Sleeper Service would do to the Federation what Alexander the Great once did to Rimmer.

[ILikeDeathNote]

The Culture vs. the UFP and allies

This topic is intended as a joke, correct?

[Mike DiCenso]

Yes and no. Narsil is given to creating ridiculous, overly lop-sided scenarios, like this one. Best to not pay too much attention to them. Occasionally someone will set up a similar kind of scenario, and those are silly parodies. ;-)
-Mike

[PunkMaister]

OK if anyone is going to seriously even suggest that the Culture can be defeated by the UFP or any Trek power for that matter I got to ask what drugs are you on? What's next? The UFP singlehandedly beats all the Dr Whoverse and that Photorps are a billion times more powerful than the multiverse busting reality bomb!

[Mike DiCenso]

There are Trek powers that can defeat the Culture (Organians, Q, Cytherians, Species 8472), or at least give the Culture a serious run for it's money (The Borg, Voth). But no, not the regular, conventional ST powers, such as the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, Cardassians, Xindi, ect.
-Mike

[PunkMaister]

There are Trek powers that can defeat the Culture (Organians, Q, Cytherians, Species 8472), or at least give the Culture a serious run for it's money (The Borg, Voth). But no, not the regular, conventional ST powers, such as the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, Cardassians, Xindi, ect.
-Mike

The Q very much like the Ascended Ancients in Stargate would not bother themselves much over what lower plane beings are doing or not unless they perceive it as a threat. And other than the Q none of the other ones have shown even remotely the kind of firepower the culture can unleash from millions of LYs away if necesary.

Seriously dude are we wanking much?

[Mike DiCenso]

There are Trek powers that can defeat the Culture (Organians, Q, Cytherians, Species 8472), or at least give the Culture a serious run for it's money (The Borg, Voth). But no, not the regular, conventional ST powers, such as the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, Cardassians, Xindi, ect.
-Mike

The Q very much like the Ascended Ancients in Stargate would not bother themselves much over what lower plane beings are doing or not unless they perceive it as a threat.

They wouldn't? And yet the Q took an active interest in Humanity several times. But whatever else, they are a Trek power that can defeat the Culture, should they decide to do so.

And other than the Q none of the other ones have shown even remotely the kind of firepower the culture can unleash from millions of LYs away if necesary.

Millions of light years? Can you support that statement, please. I've never read anything like that, and the Culture have drives that are measured in the hundreds of thousands of c range at best. For example, in "Excession " one of the largest ships of the Culture redesigns itself to be mostly engine and reaches a speed of 233,000 times lightspeed, while Voth, Borg transwarp drives, and even Federation drives have exceeded this canonically many times over, and with physically much smaller drives. In the case of the Borg, by many orders of magnitude as seen in episodes like "Dark Frontier" and "Endgame" crossing tens of thousands of light years in a matter of minutes. And we're not even getting into the kind of drive or drives that V'Ger used to travel througout the known universe in 300 years.
-Mike

[GStone]

What I find interesting is the double standard. Mega Trek powers can be seen to wipe the floor with civilzations, like The Culture, but they are passed off as 'they just wouldn't care to' or 'it's beneath them to interfere', so it doesn't count. Tech and species powers is ignored when The Culture would get their assed kicked and it's how they'd act on a social level that is all that would matter. But, known methodologies of how both the Federation and The Culture are ignored when those two are paired up and all that matters is the tech, not the social aspect. Not how it would be used.

It's very convenient.

[Narsil]

Yes and no. Narsil is given to creating ridiculous, overly lop-sided scenarios, like this one. Best to not pay too much attention to them. Occasionally someone will set up a similar kind of scenario, and those are silly parodies. ;-)
-Mike

Of course this topic was intended as a joke you bloody cretin, and I don't appreciate the personal attack. Imagining ridiculous, lopsided scenarios is really just my way of passing the time here, whenever I bother to actually turn up or log in. What galls me however is that many people here seem to actually think that Species 8472 and the Borg or Voth could conceivably challenge the Culture simply because they have long-range strategic bonuses to speed.

Whereas Culture the has enough tactical and offensive speed to shame the bloody Flash and enough reaction time to write a novel in the time it takes the light to reflect off of Picard's dome. As well as being able to strike from parsecs (not millions of light-years) away undetected in hyperspace with weapons that shatter planets with the same relative ease that the Enterprise might fire a phaser that disintegrates a small asteroid. There's a casual discussion in one of the first Culture stories, and the only one in which Earth is actually seen, of actually performing planetary euthanasia with their non-combat ship. The method? Displace a miniature black hole into the centre of the planet and completely implode it.

A commonly accepted term for that sort of threat was actually given inside one of the Culture novels themselves. An Outside Context Problem.

If you want something that could rape the Culture with relative ease, then I'm sure the Xeelee will be pleased to accommodate you. What, with their ability to annihilate stars, travel to any point in time and space with ease, and entire universe worth of resources. On a ship-to-ship scale, the ships of the Xeelee are actually a fair bit weaker, but on an overall scale, it'd be like one man trying to fight off a quadrillion angry kittens. You'd be able to take out quite a few of them, but sooner or later you're going to wind up being imploded by sheer weight if nothing else.

And that's to say nothing of the Whoniverse, in which Dalek solution to life actually being in the multiverse is to completely annihilate the whole lot of it at once by setting off a gigantic Reality Bomb.

[Roondar]

Yes and no. Narsil is given to creating ridiculous, overly lop-sided scenarios, like this one. Best to not pay too much attention to them. Occasionally someone will set up a similar kind of scenario, and those are silly parodies. ;-)
-Mike

Of course this topic was intended as a joke you bloody cretin, and I don't appreciate the personal attack. Imagining ridiculous, lopsided scenarios is really just my way of passing the time here, whenever I bother to actually turn up or log in. What galls me however is that many people here seem to actually think that Species 8472 and the Borg or Voth could conceivably challenge the Culture simply because they have long-range strategic bonuses to speed.

Whereas Culture the has enough tactical and offensive speed to shame the bloody Flash and enough reaction time to write a novel in the time it takes the light to reflect off of Picard's dome. As well as being able to strike from parsecs (not millions of light-years) away undetected in hyperspace with weapons that shatter planets with the same relative ease that the Enterprise might fire a phaser that disintegrates a small asteroid. There's a casual discussion in one of the first Culture stories, and the only one in which Earth is actually seen, of actually performing planetary euthanasia with their non-combat ship. The method? Displace a miniature black hole into the centre of the planet and completely implode it.

A commonly accepted term for that sort of threat was actually given inside one of the Culture novels themselves. An Outside Context Problem.

If you want something that could rape the Culture with relative ease, then I'm sure the Xeelee will be pleased to accommodate you. What, with their ability to annihilate stars, travel to any point in time and space with ease, and entire universe worth of resources. On a ship-to-ship scale, the ships of the Xeelee are actually a fair bit weaker, but on an overall scale, it'd be like one man trying to fight off a quadrillion angry kittens. You'd be able to take out quite a few of them, but sooner or later you're going to wind up being imploded by sheer weight if nothing else.

And that's to say nothing of the Whoniverse, in which Dalek solution to life actually being in the multiverse is to completely annihilate the whole lot of it at once by setting off a gigantic Reality Bomb.

Leave it to the Daleks to figuring out something so incredibly daft, overpowered and yet so much 'in character' that they'd level on the bonus XP alone.

*ahem*

[GStone]

Whereas Culture the has enough tactical and offensive speed to shame the bloody Flash and enough reaction time to write a novel in the time it takes the light to reflect off of Picard's dome.

The Flash can time travel.

[Narsil]

Whereas Culture the has enough tactical and offensive speed to shame the bloody Flash and enough reaction time to write a novel in the time it takes the light to reflect off of Picard's dome.

The Flash can time travel.

Which one? ;)

And I was more talking about actual movement speed. The Flashes are, IIRC, sort of limited to less than light speeds usually, whereas the Culture's combat speeds are always in the thousands-of-times-the-speed-of-light area, due to being orchestrated from hyperspace. This also means that anyone who can't access hyperspace, can't actually hit them.

The Federation has never even had a chance against the Culture, and it's your fanwankish response that proves exactly how far you'll stretch canon just to prove your Federation is superior.

Leave it to the Daleks to figuring out something so incredibly daft, overpowered and yet so much 'in character' that they'd level on the bonus XP alone.

How the hell do you think they managed to afford it? :P They just started building it when unable to, and then used the sheer wave of roleplaying XP to actually pay for it. They got double XP points because of the crazy psychic Dalek who realised how destructive the Daleks really were leading them straight smack bang into a trap though.

Of course, the Daleks are that scared by the Doctor by this point that they probably earn roleplaying points just for thinking about him.

[GStone]

The Federation has never even had a chance against the Culture, and it's your fanwankish response that proves exactly how far you'll stretch canon just to prove your Federation is superior.

And it'll always be fanwanking, as long as only one part of a versus debate is carved out and focused on, while the rest is ignored.

[Mr. Oragahn]

And that's to say nothing of the Whoniverse, in which Dalek solution to life actually being in the multiverse is to completely annihilate the whole lot of it at once by setting off a gigantic Reality Bomb.

In theory. They never tested it. And if they did, and it worked, erm... they couldn't report on it. Because if it was that absolute weapon of doom, then there's no form of dimension, universe of whatever else that could escape.