Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

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Lucky
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Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Lucky » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:54 pm

Samus Aran's Chozo Power Suit wrote:
Metroid Game Manual wrote:
He is a cyborg: his body has been surgically strengthened with robotics, giving him superpowers. Even the space pirates fear his space suit, which can absorb any enemy's power.
Metroid: Zero mission Game Manual wrote:
Soon, however, Space Pirates began to attack the spaceships, threatening the galactic peace. The Galactic Police and Galactic Army struck against the aggression, but the pirates' attacks were powerful, and it was impossible to catch them all in the vastness of space. So, the Federal Bureau called together powerful bounty hunters to battle the pirates.
Metroid: Zero mission wrote:
The timing of my escape couldn't have been worse. I was attacked by Space Pirates and left nearly defenseless, stripped of my Power Suit. All I had for protection was my rather useless emergency pistol. Infiltrating the Space Pirate Mother Ship so armed may have been foolish, but I had no choice...

Could I survive long enough to escape?
Samus Aran's Chozo Power Suit
ENERGY
99+Energy tanks

BEAM
Short
Manual: This is Samus's standard beam weapon.

Long
Game: Fire long-distence shots with this beam. Press L+B to fire diagonally.
Manual: Obtaining this power-up increases the range of Samus's beam weapon, including the Ice and Wave Beams. This power-up allows Samus to destroy enemies from a safe distance.

Charge beam
Game: Hold down B to charge. Release to fire. Charge Attack: Jump with a full charge.
Manual: Obtaining this power-up allows Samus to charge beam energy into a single, powerful beam blast. Hold B Button to charge and release to fire.

Ice
Game: This beam can freeze enemies in place. You can safely stand on frozen enemies.
Manual: This weapon allows Samus to freeze enemies temporarily.
Samus can stand on frozen enemies.

Wave
Game: This beam is made up of energy waves, can pass through solid objects.
Manual: This allows Samus to fire beams of energy waves that penetrates solid objects.

Unknown Item (Turns out to be Plasma Beam)
Game: Analysis inconclusive. Item incompatible with current suit.

BOMB
Normal
Game: Press B in Morph Ball form to set.
Manual: After acquiring this ability, Samus can set Bombs when in Morph Ball form. In addition to damaging enemies, they can destroy some blocks and walls. Samus has an unlimited supply of them. To use them, press the B Button while in Morph Ball form.

MISSILE
Normal
Game: Opens red hatches.
Manual: This is the most basic form of Missile.

Super
Game: Arm with SELECT. Fire with R + B. Opens green hatches.
Manual This is a more powerful version of the normal Missile.

SUIT
Varia
Game: Decreases damage taken from enemies. Prevents damage from acid and heat.
Manual: This enhanced suit reduces the amount of damage taken from enemies. It also negates the effects of intense heat and acid.

Unknown Item(Turns out to be Gravity Suit)
Game: Analysis inconclusive. Item incompatible with current suit.

MISC
MorphBall
Game: Double-tap down to take ball form and gain access to narrow passageways.
Manual: This ability allows Samus's suit to curl into a ball form and navigate narrow passages.

Power Grip
Game: Grab and hang from ledges and corners.
Manual: This upgrade gives Samus the strength to grab onto and hang from ledges after jumping toward them.

Speed booster
Game: Run until speed boost begins to break certain blocks and damage enemies.
Manual: With this power-up, Samus is able to dash at supersonic speeds and crash through certain barriers and enemies. Press and hold the direction pad in the direction you want to dash.

Hi-Jump
Game: Increases maximum jump height. Adds Morph Ball jumping capability.
Manual: This upgrade gives Samus the ability to jump higher and allows her to jump while in Morph Ball mode.

Screw Attack
Game: Damage enemies while somersaulting.
Manual: Obtaining this power-up gives Samus the ability to damage enemies by jumping into them. Activates automatically during a spin jump.

Unknown Item(Turns out to be Space Jump)
Game: Analysis inconclusive. Item incompatible with current suit.
Samus's first Chozo Power Suit was not compatible with all of the Chozo Upgrades, but was still vastly more powerful then what the Galactic Police and Army could field, turning Samus into a one man army.

This suit was abandoned do to being damaged or destroyed when Samus was shot down escaping Zebes.
Samus Aran's Zero Suit wrote:
Metroid: Zero mission wrote:
The timing of my escape couldn't have been worse. I was attacked by Space Pirates and left nearly defenseless, stripped of my Power Suit. All I had for protection was my rather useless emergency pistol. Infiltrating the Space Pirate Mother Ship so armed may have been foolish, but I had no choice...

Could i survive long enough to escape?
Samus Aran's Zero Suit
Energy
99/999

Gun
Pistol
Game: An auto-charging pistol...Stun enemies with charged shots.
Samus's Zero Suit is light body armor that Samus sometimes wears under her Power Suit. It seems to generate defensive shields that allow her to survive hits that would kill a Red Space Pirate in one hit.

The name "Auto-Charging Pistol" seem to imply a perpetual energy source.
Samus Aran's Fully Powered Chozo Power Suit wrote:
Metroid: Fusion Game Manual wrote:
Eventually, Samus was sent to SR388 to exterminate the last remaining Metroids-but only after an entire Federation platoon was wiped out in an earlier attempt.
Metroid: Fusion Game Manual wrote:
The fact that my Power Suit contained biological components and was also integrally connected to my body seemed to worsen the matter. The Federation surgeons were unable to remove the suit while i was unconscious. Their only choice was to cut and remove parts of the infected suit from my still-unconscious form, immediately after, they sent the suit parts to the Biologic Space Labs research station for study.
Metroid: Fusion wrote:
It then came to light that the organic components of my Power Suit had become integrated with my system that it could not be removed while I was unconscious. Large portions of my suit had to be surgically removed, dramatically altering my physical appearance. However, the X in my central nervous system were too embedded to be removed safely. I was given a minimal chance of survival.
Metroid: Zero mission wrote:
The timing of my escape couldn't have been worse. I was attacked by Space Pirates and left nearly defenseless, stripped of my Power Suit. All I had for protection was my rather useless emergency pistol. Infiltrating the Space Pirate Mother Ship so armed may have been foolish, but I had no choice...

Could i survive long enough to escape?
Fully Powered Suit
Energy
99 energy points +12 Energy Tanks worth 100 energy points (Easy and Normal Mode)
99 energy points points + 12 Energy Tanks worth 50 energy points (Hard Mode)

BEAM
Short
Manual: This is Samus's standard beam weapon.

Long
Game: Fire long-distence shots with this beam. Press L+B to fire diagonally.
Manual: Obtaining this power-up increases the range of Samus's beam weapon, including the Ice and Wave Beams. This power-up allows Samus to destroy enemies from a safe distance.

Charge beam
Game: Hold down B to charge. Release to fire. Charge Attack: Jump with a full charge.
Manual: Obtaining this power-up allows Samus to charge beam energy into a single, powerful beam blast. Hold B Button to charge and release to fire.

Ice
Game: This beam can freeze enemies in place. You can safely stand on frozen enemies.
Manual: This weapon allows Samus to freeze enemies temporarily.
Samus can stand on frozen enemies.

Wave
Game: This beam is made up of energy waves, can pass through solid objects.
Manual: This allows Samus to fire beams of energy waves that penetrates solid objects.

Plasma
Game: This powerful beam can blast through, multiple enemies.

Grappling
Manual: Method of use: Fire Button
You can use this beam to grab onto special blocks, then swing into open areas.

BOMB
Normal
Game: Press B in Morph Ball form to set.
Manual: After acquiring this ability, Samus can set Bombs when in Morph Ball form. In addition to damaging enemies, they can destroy some blocks and walls. Samus has an unlimited supply of them. To use them, press the B Button while in Morph Ball form.

Power
Game: Set with R + B while in Morph Ball form. Opens yellow hatches.
Manual: This is the most powerful form of Bomb. Power Bomb explosions are massive, encompassing and damaging everything in view. Samus has a limited supply of these Bombs. To use them, hold the R Button while in Morph Ball form and press the B Button.

MISSILE
Normal
Game: Opens red hatches.
Manual: This is the most basic form of Missile.

Super
Game: Arm with SELECT. Fire with R + B. Opens green hatches.
Manual This is a more powerful version of the normal Missile.

SUIT
Varia
Game: Decreases damage taken from enemies. Prevents damage from acid and heat.
Manual: This enhanced suit reduces the amount of damage taken from enemies. It also negates the effects of intense heat and acid.

Gravity
Game: Reduces damage from foes. Enables free movement in water. Stops lava damage.

MISC
MorphBall
Game: Double-tap down to take ball form and gain access to narrow passageways.
Manual: This ability allows Samus's suit to curl into a ball form and navigate narrow passages.

Power Grip
Game: Grab and hang from ledges and corners.
Manual: This upgrade gives Samus the strength to grab onto and hang from ledges after jumping toward them.

Speed booster
Game: Run until speed boost begins to break certain blocks and damage enemies.
Manual: With this power-up, Samus is able to dash at supersonic speeds and crash through certain barriers and enemies. Press and hold the direction pad in the direction you want to dash.

Hi-Jump
Game: Increases maximum jump height. Adds Morph Ball jumping capability.
Manual: This upgrade gives Samus the ability to jump higher and allows her to jump while in Morph Ball mode.

Screw Attack
Game: Damage enemies while somersaulting.
Manual: Obtaining this power-up gives Samus the ability to damage enemies by jumping into them. Activates automatically during a spin jump.

Space Jump
Game: Somersault continually in the air. Use the A mid-somersault to jump again.

X-Ray Scope
Manual: Method of use: Dash Button held down
(Samus cannot move while using this item)
This item allows you to see hidden passages.
[/quote]
The Fully Powered Suit is the suit Samus uses until Metroid 4(Metroid: Fusion). It seems to be an in-universe reason why her suit suddenly looks different in Metroid 2.

Samus's Power Suit is once again described as a physical bio-mechanical object that needs Samus to take it off.
Samus Aran's Fusion Suit wrote:
Metroid: Fusion Game Manual wrote:
The fact that my Power Suit contained biological components and was also integrally connected to my body seemed to worsen the matter. The Federation surgeons were unable to remove the suit while i was unconscious. Their only choice was to cut and remove parts of the infected suit from my still-unconscious form, immediately after, they sent the suit parts to the Biologic Space Labs research station for study.
Metroid: Fusion wrote:
Samus Aran: It then came to light that the organic components of my Power Suit had become integrated with my system that it could not be removed while I was unconscious. Large portions of my suit had to be surgically removed, dramatically altering my physical appearance. However, the X in my central nervous system were too embedded to be removed safely. I was given a minimal chance of survival.

Then, someone found a cure.

They proposed using a Metroid cell to make an anti-X vaccine. It seems that the Federation had managed to preserve a cell culture from the last infant Metroid from SR388. The serum was prepared and injected without delay.

The X parasites were immediately and completely destroyed.

As for me, one life ended... yet I survived, reborn as something different.
Metroid: Fusion wrote:
Computer: I am already detecting massive bio-signs in this region. The X are gathering. This may be our chance to exterminate them, but... You are only at 10% battle capacity. Your chance of survival is extremely low. The Federation needs you on duty, Samus...
Metroid: Fusion wrote:
Computer: I have received news from HQ. They can support you with downloadable weapons data. Once you have this data, you'll be able to use missiles. This will help against some enemies your beam can't hurt. head to the Data Room for the download.
Metroid: Fusion wrote:
But it has also changed your cellular makeup. You will never be infected by X again... In fact, you can now absorb any free-floating X parasites without a host by merely touching them. This will allow you to replenish health and restore weapons.
Metroid: Fusion wrote:
SC: I am already detecting massive bio-signs in this region. The X are gathering. This may be our chance to exterminate them, but... You are only at 10% battle capacity. Your chance of survival is extremely low. The Federation needs you alive and on duty, Samus...
Metroid: Fusion wrote:
SC: How did that X download the Varia Suit data? This doesn't seem to make any sense at all, unless the X... Unless the X have the ability to process data organically... At any rate, you have the Varia Suit data. Now you will be protected from extreme temperatures. More importantly, the SA-X will no longer be able to freeze you, so you can escape easier. But you're still too weak. That thing is too much for you. You currently have no way of damaging it. But my simulations indicate that a penetrating weapon like the Plasma Beam might work. Developing modification data will take HQ some time, though. There's also a chance that you may be able to restore your Plasma Beam by absorbing a large Core-X, as you did with the Charge Beam function. As for restoring Ice Beam functionality, I doubt it... Your current cellular makeup would reject that addition. Therefore, HQ has developed an Ice Missile upgrade. This will add a freezing effect to your Missiles. It will help. Go to Sector 5 (ARC) for the download.
Samus Aran's Fusion Suit
ENERGY
99 energy points +20 Energy Tanks worth 100 energy points

BEAM
Normal(Long)
Manual: This is the standard beam Samus possesses at the beginning of the game.

Charge
Game: Charge Beam ability recovered.
Manual: Charge up the normal beam's energy for a more powerful shot. Press and hold the B Button. Release when energy is built up.

Wide
Game: Wide Beam ability recovered.
Manual: Use the Wide Beam to shoot three normal beams at the same time. The possibility of hitting something greatly increases.

Plasma
Game: Plasma Beam ability recovered.
Manual: This beam passes through enemies, hitting multiple targets.

Wave
Game: Wave Beam ability recovered.
Manual: Shoot through obstacles with this undulating beam.

Ice
Game: Ice Beam ability recovered.

BOMBS
Bombs
Game: Bomb data downloaded.
Manual: These limitless bombs can only be used in combination with Morph Ball. They cause damage to enemies and can also be used to destroy certain sections of the walls and floors. Press the B Button while in Morph Ball mode.

Power Bomb
Magazine: 74
Game: Power Bomb data downloaded.
Manual: This is the bomb in its most powerful form. Its explosion encompasses the entire screen, damaging a limited number of enemies. While in Morph Ball mode, press and hold the R Button then press the B Button.

MISSILES
Normal
Magazine: 250
Game: Missile data downloaded.
Manual:These are the standard missiles Samus downloads early in the game.

Super
Game: Super Missile data downloaded.
Manual: Super Missiles are a more powerful version of the normal missiles.

Ice
Game: ice effect added to missiles.
Manual: USe Ice Missiles to freeze enemies for a limited amount of time. Samus can walk on frozen enemies.

Diffusion
Game: Diffusion added to missiles.
Manual: Fire Diffusion Missiles while charged to release a powerful blast that damages all enemies within a certain radius. Press and hold the R Button then fire the Missiles when charged up.

SUIT
Fusion
Manual: The standard suit Samus possesses at the beginning of the game.

Varia
Game: Varia Suit effect recovered. Survive extreme temperatures.
Manual: Reduces the damage suffered from enemy attacks. Nullifies damage from high and low temperatures.

Gravity
Game: Gravity Suit effect recovered.
Manual: Further reduces damage from enemy attacks. Allows for normal movement in aquatic and other areas. Also protects Samus from lava.

MISC
Morph Ball
Game: Morph Ball ability recovered.
Manual: Use this to roll into a ball and move through narrow passageways. Press down twice on the Control Pad.

Hi-Jump
Game: Hi-Jump and Jumpball abilities recovered.
Manual: Increases jump ability. This also allows Samus to jump in Morph Ball mode.

Speed Booster
Game: Speed Booster power regained.
Manual: Dash at super sonic speeds and crash through certain barriers and enemies. Press and Hold the Control Pad in the direction you want to dash.

Space Jump
Game: Space Jump ability recovered.
Manual: Perform consecutive Spin Jumps. With practice it is possible to use the propulsion to "fly".

Screw Attack
Game: Screw Attack ability regained.
Manual: Hit enemies with Spin Jump to cause damage.

ACTIONS
Normal jump and Spin Jump
Manual: Press A Button to jump. Move the left or right while jumping to perform a Spin Jump.

Hanging From Ledges
Manual: Jump toward ledges to reach out and grab them. Some are harder to reach then others, but don't give up!

Spin Jump Attack (Must possess Charge Beam)
Manual: Charge up a beam shot and then perform a Spin Jump to damage enemies vulnerable to the Charge Beam.

Ladders
Manual: Samus can grab on to ladders by facing and jumping toward them.

To let go of a ladder, use the Control Pad to choose a direction and then press the A Button. Samus will always go into a Spin Jump off the ladder.

To shoot while on a ladder, use the Control Pad to aim and press the B Button.

Traveling Through Narrow Areas
Manual: Narrow spaces will become navigable once Samus has recovered the Morph Ball ability. Press down twice on the Control Pad to change into Morph Ball.

To pass through areas like the one shown here, jump up and grab the corner. Then press up once on the Control Pad t automatically shift into Morph ball.
It would seem that the Fusion Suit is lighter then the Chozo Power Suits Samus was using because Samus can pull herself up ledges without an upgrade.

The SA-X seems to have been as powerful as Samus was when it attacked her, but neither Samus or the SA-X was able to defeat the Omega Metroid until Samus absorbed the SA-X. This would imply that after absorbing the SA-X, Samus is more powerful then ever before.

Samus recovered the Varia Suit's and Gravity Suit's effects, but does not seem to gain additional bulk implying the effects are just that, the effects. Samus herself might have gained the powers of the Varia and Gravity suits even when outside the Fusion Suit given she was absorbing the X Parasites.

+++++

The suit used in Metroid: Other M seems to be an energy construct. This is a direct contradiction to every other Metroid game.
4:44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Vs7Mlj8VY

There is a claim that if Samus gets scared her armor will fail, but a simple stun shot will disable her armor in Other M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUAqsdDRrS0

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:07 pm

It turns out that precisely considering Other M an enhanced dream, perhaps induced by some kind of virtual reality system or as a side effect of stasis (like what would be used in FTL trips eventually, or when lying on some hospital bed) solves many issues.
The emo-energetic suit becomes an allegory of what the suit means to her and how she feels empowered with it (so it is very emotional) and all odd decisions which make little sense are typical of the oddity effect encountered in dreams.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Lucky » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:24 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:It turns out that precisely considering Other M an enhanced dream, perhaps induced by some kind of virtual reality system or as a side effect of stasis (like what would be used in FTL trips eventually, or when lying on some hospital bed) solves many issues.
The emo-energetic suit becomes an allegory of what the suit means to her and how she feels empowered with it (so it is very emotional) and all odd decisions which make little sense are typical of the oddity effect encountered in dreams.
Given all the cloning experiments in Other M, I assumed the "Samus" you play as is a clone of the real Samus Aran.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:47 pm

On Other Words, the game's story could be considered a distorsion of a real event that did take place. So we can retain the overal narrative but ditch the silly details.
As a fan, it's the way I treat the game. I think the background plot is an acceptable although not original addition to the lore.

You know, some fans literally ditch the entire Prime arc. They're quite hard on it.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:33 am

On a sidenote, why do fanboys insist so much on the 900g figure?
The mass of the planet obviously is a typo. Anything in a free fall for a bit more than one second would come close to hitting the ground at nearly 10 kps.


Also, the gravity suit doesn't allow Samus to make much higher jumps, yet allows her to reduce high gravity fields to normal Earth gravity and also allow her to move through liquids like if they were not there.

Has this ever been properly rationalized?

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Lucky » Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:49 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote: On Other Words, the game's story could be considered a distorsion of a real event that did take place. So we can retain the overal narrative but ditch the silly details.
As a fan, it's the way I treat the game. I think the background plot is an acceptable although not original addition to the lore.

You know, some fans literally ditch the entire Prime arc. They're quite hard on it.
Other M simply does not fit in with the rest of the Metroid game do to game play and story.

1) Every Metroid games are scavenger hunts in mazes.

2) A simple and potentially interesting way for Nintendo to make Other M mesh with the rest of the Metroid franchise is to say that "Samus" was the bio-weapon someone was testing. Brain up loads are used in Metroid 4, but Adam wasn't exactly the same as the original going by things Samus seems to be saying and thinking during the game. Once Samus goes rogue during Metroid 4(Fusion) the Federation has a P.R. problem on their hands.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: On a sidenote, why do fanboys insist so much on the 900g figure?
The mass of the planet obviously is a typo. Anything in a free fall for a bit more than one second would come close to hitting the ground at nearly 10 kps.


Also, the gravity suit doesn't allow Samus to make much higher jumps, yet allows her to reduce high gravity fields to normal Earth gravity and also allow her to move through liquids like if they were not there.

Has this ever been properly rationalized?
The gravity suit's functions don't seem to have much to do with gravity from a game mechanics point of view at least. I don't think you can judge what something does in fiction or the real world simply by its name or you end up with things like bolters being construction tools.

1) The game is played in what is slow motion when compared to what is really happening because the players aren't superhuman?

Speed Booster lets Samus run at supersonic speeds according to the manual fluff.
http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.p ... mage_id=14
http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.p ... mage_id=16

Samus is 1.9 m tall.
http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.p ... image_id=8

Super Sonic is considered to be 24.5 kps to 102.5 kps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic ... ch_regimes

2) Samus seems to have undefined psionic/magical abilities.
http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.p ... mage_id=20
http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.p ... mage_id=21
http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.p ... mage_id=18

3) The game as presented is not a 100% accurate representation of the setting do to constraints aside from the player's limitation?
Example: In Metroid: Fusion Samus is in a cylindrical space station, but you only appear to move right, left, up, or down.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:39 pm

Lucky wrote:Other M simply does not fit in with the rest of the Metroid game do to game play and story.

1) Every Metroid games are scavenger hunts in mazes.
Not all places are mazes. Not to say that the Bottle Station was still huge enough to be lost in if you didn't know your way through.
2) A simple and potentially interesting way for Nintendo to make Other M mesh with the rest of the Metroid franchise is to say that "Samus" was the bio-weapon someone was testing. Brain up loads are used in Metroid 4, but Adam wasn't exactly the same as the original going by things Samus seems to be saying and thinking during the game. Once Samus goes rogue during Metroid 4(Fusion) the Federation has a P.R. problem on their hands.
You said it does not fit and I remember from the other Metroid that most of these problems wouldn't be arranged with this little PR mess plot.
Although it's a good spin on it and it could very well be kept, because the idea works well, it isn't sufficient to explain Samus' antics.
The only way to make that Samus fit with the rest (and even I was quite tolerant regarding some of the major issues in Other M) is to literally consider this adventure a biased and twisted retelling inside the story.
The gravity suit's functions don't seem to have much to do with gravity from a game mechanics point of view at least. I don't think you can judge what something does in fiction or the real world simply by its name or you end up with things like bolters being construction tools.

1) The game is played in what is slow motion when compared to what is really happening because the players aren't superhuman?
Please, not that Maser Chief excuse.
Speed Booster lets Samus run at supersonic speeds according to the manual fluff.
http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.p ... mage_id=14
http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.p ... mage_id=16
It's activcated; what's the point though? We're talking about the gravity suit, not some other power.
And?
Super Sonic is considered to be 24.5 kps to 102.5 kps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic ... ch_regimes
No. k p h.
Where is it written exactly? Please cite text and page.
3) The game as presented is not a 100% accurate representation of the setting do to constraints aside from the player's limitation?
Example: In Metroid: Fusion Samus is in a cylindrical space station, but you only appear to move right, left, up, or down.
Of course, the world isn't 2D.
I also hate fanboys taking Samus lifting the lava whale out of the lava pool in Other M so literally, yet missing out how such strength would have been damn useful during the entirety of the game, if only for super high jumps.

The only thing I can take is that the gravity suit is an increase of the mechanical power of the suit that Samus cannot control. It detects the medium she's in, and notices if there's an increase of gravity or an excess of mass and diverst more power to the suit's servos to emulate a jump in a 1 g environment.
However, if it works well against higher gravity when Samus is walking through air (like in Other M), it doesn't explain why she moves through water and falls back to the ground like if it were air.
It would require a direct control on buoyancy and fighting against the mass of the water itself. That's almost like having a reaction-less drive embedded into the suit. In theory, that would allow Samus to fly to some degree outside of complicated environments (thick medium or higher gravity).
But it does not. Meaning for some reason that the suit immediately disconnects the effect when the abnormal conditions aren't met.

This is very odd, meaning the gravity suit aims at doing one "simple" thing: strictly reproducing the physics of a 1 g environment at all costs, at any time.
Strangely enough, it would make more sense if the suit was meant to be used by a some labour force, since workers would be the ones willing to never have to adapt to special environment during their work shifts, and they'd above hate to suddenly shoot out of a pool like a missile just because they'd come out of the water while the "gravity gear" system is on.

What I mean is that the gravity suit tech could be derived from whatever the Chozo used to allow their workforce to build cities, stations and ships without feeling the difference in strong gravitational differentials or fluidic densities.
The Chozo would have merely adapted this system to allow a human to enjoy normal movement, by feeling at home (Earth), no matter the environmental conditions (gravity of fluid density). Think of a very fine tuned ethereal and multi-vectorial thruster that acts and reacts down to the microsecond.


Sidenote: funny how the yellow water on Zebes was said to be corrosive, like in Metroid Prime.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Lucky » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:48 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Not all places are mazes. Not to say that the Bottle Station was still huge enough to be lost in if you didn't know your way through.
The station in Metroid 4 wasn't a maze either yet still played as one.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: You said it does not fit and I remember from the other Metroid that most of these problems wouldn't be arranged with this little PR mess plot.
Although it's a good spin on it and it could very well be kept, because the idea works well, it isn't sufficient to explain Samus' antics.
The only way to make that Samus fit with the rest (and even I was quite tolerant regarding some of the major issues in Other M) is to literally consider this adventure a biased and twisted retelling inside the story.
Samus's armor does not match the armors used in the other games, and there are more subtle things that don't match up as well.

+++++

Samus blowing up an entire planet while she knows Federation soldiers are on the way makes Samus an easy scapegoat. "Unknown pirate attacks perfectly legal lab, and then destroys planet in act of terrorism."
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Please, not that Maser Chief excuse.
You asked for a possible reason things did not look right.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: It's activcated; what's the point though? We're talking about the gravity suit, not some other power.
You claimed that Samus wasn't falling fast enough for the stated level of gravity, but no one has ever proven it as far as I know.

If the Speed Booster is supersonic then you can use Samus's height to determine roughly how fast she travels without the Speed Booster, and from that roughly how fast she falls.

+++++

You're assuming that the gravity suit's primary purpose is to manipulate gravity, and that Samus doesn't have other systems that normally do that. What the gravity suit does in game has seemingly little to nothing to do with gravity.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: And?
If the Speed Booster is supersonic then you can use Samus's height to determine roughly how fast she travels without the Speed Booster, and from that roughly how fast she falls.

I was just being helpful to you, and providing you the information you need to show how fast Samus actually moves, and thereby show weather or not the stated gravities made sense.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: No. k p h.
What is wrong with me using kilometers per second like did?
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Where is it written exactly? Please cite text and page.
As far as I know, Samus having psychic powers is inferred from the fluff about her enemies being able to mind control others and do magic. Mother Brian is telepathically controlling everything to attack you in Metroid and Super Metroid, and in Super Metroid you fight actual ghosts, and it gets more overt in the Prime games.

Samus's mystical powers are poorly defined, but generally manifest as a high if not complete resistance to mental, spiritual attacks.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Of course, the world isn't 2D.
I also hate fanboys taking Samus lifting the lava whale out of the lava pool in Other M so literally, yet missing out how such strength would have been damn useful during the entirety of the game, if only for super high jumps.

The only thing I can take is that the gravity suit is an increase of the mechanical power of the suit that Samus cannot control. It detects the medium she's in, and notices if there's an increase of gravity or an excess of mass and diverst more power to the suit's servos to emulate a jump in a 1 g environment.
However, if it works well against higher gravity when Samus is walking through air (like in Other M), it doesn't explain why she moves through water and falls back to the ground like if it were air.
It would require a direct control on buoyancy and fighting against the mass of the water itself. That's almost like having a reaction-less drive embedded into the suit. In theory, that would allow Samus to fly to some degree outside of complicated environments (thick medium or higher gravity).
But it does not. Meaning for some reason that the suit immediately disconnects the effect when the abnormal conditions aren't met.

This is very odd, meaning the gravity suit aims at doing one "simple" thing: strictly reproducing the physics of a 1 g environment at all costs, at any time.
Strangely enough, it would make more sense if the suit was meant to be used by a some labour force, since workers would be the ones willing to never have to adapt to special environment during their work shifts, and they'd above hate to suddenly shoot out of a pool like a missile just because they'd come out of the water while the "gravity gear" system is on.

What I mean is that the gravity suit tech could be derived from whatever the Chozo used to allow their workforce to build cities, stations and ships without feeling the difference in strong gravitational differentials or fluidic densities.
The Chozo would have merely adapted this system to allow a human to enjoy normal movement, by feeling at home (Earth), no matter the environmental conditions (gravity of fluid density). Think of a very fine tuned ethereal and multi-vectorial thruster that acts and reacts down to the microsecond.
Samus not being able to use the gravity suit with her first armor kind of shoots down this idea.

The game mechanics seem to imply the gravity suit's function is to help you move through substances like water and lava and adds protection. It's a sort of diving suit it seems.

You're assuming that the gravity suit's primary function is to manipulate gravity. This is akin to assuming that a bolter's function is to bolt things together.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Sidenote: funny how the yellow water on Zebes was said to be corrosive, like in Metroid Prime.
Zebes would be a death world that is composed of exotic super metals.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:43 pm

Lucky wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Not all places are mazes. Not to say that the Bottle Station was still huge enough to be lost in if you didn't know your way through.
The station in Metroid 4 wasn't a maze either yet still played as one.
So is there any problem? Bottle Station was maze-like enough as well. It was just messy and linear at times, just like in old times of metroidvania. The problem of Other M was the abuse of invisible walls, the lack of relevency of the touchable walls and such horrid lack of secret passages. That was infuriating.
Samus blowing up an entire planet while she knows Federation soldiers are on the way makes Samus an easy scapegoat. "Unknown pirate attacks perfectly legal lab, and then destroys planet in act of terrorism."
Only if you manage to convince people that
- one person could destroy a planet
and
- that this Zebes planet, which was already know the first time since they had already sent Samus in while the Federation itself was failing to get inside by its own, was a quiet or inoffensive planet. That despite precisely the first attack from the Space Pirates found there.

Rather hard.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Please, not that Maser Chief excuse.
You asked for a possible reason things did not look right.
And so humans were also moving slowly? Because you also have to explain that then, since both humans and Samus were not shown moving at different speeds during cutscenes.
Ok, it's just a terrible excuse, that's all, and it's the same for Halo since we have all those cutscenes to see that cinematic action is identical to game action and cinematic action does not have humans moving super fast.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: It's activcated; what's the point though? We're talking about the gravity suit, not some other power.
You claimed that Samus wasn't falling fast enough for the stated level of gravity, but no one has ever proven it as far as I know.
Pay attention. You're terribly confused and mixing different things together!
I said Samus doesn't fall fast enough in water, but with the suit (since we're talking about the gravity suit), she's falling through water like through air.
I didn't say it had anything to do with the "stated level of gravity". Where the hell did you pick that???
And what the heck is it about no one having proven "it" as far as you know?? I'm talking about Samus walking through water, there's nothing to prove there, it's observed straight from a game.
If the Speed Booster is supersonic then you can use Samus's height to determine roughly how fast she travels without the Speed Booster, and from that roughly how fast she falls.
The speed booster just allows her to run super fast on the ground and actuall stick to said ground until she voluntarily jumps.
In games, I don't recall the speed booster affecting the gravitic pull on Samus.
You're assuming that the gravity suit's primary purpose is to manipulate gravity, and that Samus doesn't have other systems that normally do that. What the gravity suit does in game has seemingly little to nothing to do with gravity.
Have you read any wikia or metroid database recently? All variants of this suit or bonuses that mimic their performances largely involve gravity.
So I can easily picture the gravity suit using some inertia dampeners and other mass/gravity manipulation related systems.
I was just being helpful to you, and providing you the information you need to show how fast Samus actually moves, and thereby show weather or not the stated gravities made sense.
The gravity of some 900 g makes zero sense. People cite the comics but not only it's made by Sakamuthing and people have grown to loathe him since Other M, but in the comics, Samus is seen as nothing more than a vanilla kid, and that's on Zebes.
It doesn't matter if the environment might be dangerous after weeks of exposure. The question of that silly gravity is immediately resolved within a second: no human can withstand that. They'd be transformed into goo the moment they'd move.
It's a stupid figure and people who say it's canon are just stupid. They're totally incapable of criticism and they're just good to pick some bits from a Bible and parrot them endlessly.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: No. k p h.
What is wrong with me using kilometers per second like did?
You don't see??
You got your unit wrong. It is kilometer per hour, not per second.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Where is it written exactly? Please cite text and page.
As far as I know, Samus having psychic powers is inferred from the fluff about her enemies being able to mind control others and do magic. Mother Brian is telepathically controlling everything to attack you in Metroid and Super Metroid, and in Super Metroid you fight actual ghosts, and it gets more overt in the Prime games.

Samus's mystical powers are poorly defined, but generally manifest as a high if not complete resistance to mental, spiritual attacks.
Ok, let's say it's due to the combination of Chozo DNA + powersuit.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Of course, the world isn't 2D.
I also hate fanboys taking Samus lifting the lava whale out of the lava pool in Other M so literally, yet missing out how such strength would have been damn useful during the entirety of the game, if only for super high jumps.

The only thing I can take is that the gravity suit is an increase of the mechanical power of the suit that Samus cannot control. It detects the medium she's in, and notices if there's an increase of gravity or an excess of mass and diverst more power to the suit's servos to emulate a jump in a 1 g environment.
However, if it works well against higher gravity when Samus is walking through air (like in Other M), it doesn't explain why she moves through water and falls back to the ground like if it were air.
It would require a direct control on buoyancy and fighting against the mass of the water itself. That's almost like having a reaction-less drive embedded into the suit. In theory, that would allow Samus to fly to some degree outside of complicated environments (thick medium or higher gravity).
But it does not. Meaning for some reason that the suit immediately disconnects the effect when the abnormal conditions aren't met.

This is very odd, meaning the gravity suit aims at doing one "simple" thing: strictly reproducing the physics of a 1 g environment at all costs, at any time.
Strangely enough, it would make more sense if the suit was meant to be used by a some labour force, since workers would be the ones willing to never have to adapt to special environment during their work shifts, and they'd above hate to suddenly shoot out of a pool like a missile just because they'd come out of the water while the "gravity gear" system is on.

What I mean is that the gravity suit tech could be derived from whatever the Chozo used to allow their workforce to build cities, stations and ships without feeling the difference in strong gravitational differentials or fluidic densities.
The Chozo would have merely adapted this system to allow a human to enjoy normal movement, by feeling at home (Earth), no matter the environmental conditions (gravity of fluid density). Think of a very fine tuned ethereal and multi-vectorial thruster that acts and reacts down to the microsecond.
Samus not being able to use the gravity suit with her first armor kind of shoots down this idea.
No. It just means the varia has necessary components for the gravity suit that the bog standard power suit cannot sustain. What's the problem here exactly?
The game mechanics seem to imply the gravity suit's function is to help you move through substances like water and lava and adds protection. It's a sort of diving suit it seems.
We already know that. Hence that large paragraph above to explain the technical details of how and why the suit does that.
You're assuming that the gravity suit's primary function is to manipulate gravity. This is akin to assuming that a bolter's function is to bolt things together.
I never said it manipulates gravity. Again, you're making stuff up.
It manipulates the way how the powersuit is affected by the environment, its gravity and inertia (thick fluids like water and else).

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Lucky » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:07 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote: So is there any problem? Bottle Station was maze-like enough as well. It was just messy and linear at times, just like in old times of metroidvania. The problem of Other M was the abuse of invisible walls, the lack of relevency of the touchable walls and such horrid lack of secret passages. That was infuriating.
It's as linear as your basic Super Mario Brothers level, and that isn't what a game calling itself Metroid should be.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Only if you manage to convince people that
- one person could destroy a planet
and
- that this Zebes planet, which was already know the first time since they had already sent Samus in while the Federation itself was failing to get inside by its own, was a quiet or inoffensive planet. That despite precisely the first attack from the Space Pirates found there.
Rather hard.
You're confusing Metroid 3(Super Metroid) with Metroid 4(Metroid Fusion).

Metroid 4(Fusion) ends with Samus activating the B.S.L. research station's self-destruct, and using it to destroy planet SR388, and then runs away. She had orders to not destroy the station, and to wait for the Federation troops* who were on the way there.

In other words, Samus went rogue and destroyed what is possibly irreplaceable Federation property, and fled the scene without telling anyone anything.

*The troops were likely enhanced with Metroid vaccine.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: And so humans were also moving slowly? Because you also have to explain that then, since both humans and Samus were not shown moving at different speeds during cutscenes.
Ok, it's just a terrible excuse, that's all, and it's the same for Halo since we have all those cutscenes to see that cinematic action is identical to game action and cinematic action does not have humans moving super fast.
1) What cut scenes are you talking about? Metroids 1, 2, 3 and 4 don't really have cut scenes.

2)The Flash and Superman can move at absurdly high speeds speeds if not faster then light, but they don't move at superhuman speed at all times, and that means by your logic that they can't?

3) A lot of Samus's abilities are nerfed in the Prime games do to them being too powerful. Space jump is a rather blunt example.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Pay attention. You're terribly confused and mixing different things together!
I said Samus doesn't fall fast enough in water, but with the suit (since we're talking about the gravity suit), she's falling through water like through air.
I didn't say it had anything to do with the "stated level of gravity". Where the hell did you pick that???
Gravity is what causes you to fall. You stated that the official g rating is too high, but all I have is you word, and while I doubt you are lying, I would like something more then your opinion.

The gravity suit is seemingly for moving through liquids, and adds further protection.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: And what the heck is it about no one having proven "it" as far as you know?? I'm talking about Samus walking through water, there's nothing to prove there, it's observed straight from a game.
Samus's other suits aren't optimized for functioning in liquids, that is clearly spelled out. Even the Federation has gravity manipulation technology as shown by their A.G.

I've never seen scalings, or calculations of any kind regarding the stated gravity being too high. You like everyone else I've heard state this sort of thing has never provided evidence beyond it just seeming wrong to them.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: The speed booster just allows her to run super fast on the ground and actuall stick to said ground until she voluntarily jumps.
In games, I don't recall the speed booster affecting the gravitic pull on Samus.
The Speed Booster lets Samus run faster then sound, and that can be used to find out what the in scale is compared to the reality would be. Your claim seems to require the scale to be 1:1?
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Have you read any wikia or metroid database recently? All variants of this suit or bonuses that mimic their performances largely involve gravity.
The Gravity Suit in Metroids Zero Mission, 2, 3, and 4 is treat the as a diving suit that also strengthens defenses.

The only things I recall that points to the gravity suit actually having anything to do with gravity is that you get it from the Nightmare in Metroid 4

The gravity suit along with the Power Suit in general in Other M does not match any other game.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: So I can easily picture the gravity suit using some inertia dampeners and other mass/gravity manipulation related systems.
Supercavitation easily explains the sudden ease of movement in liquids, and why you suddenly don't take damage from certain liquids.

Supercavitation also helps explain how Speed Booster works, and how navigational deflectors might work in Star Trek now that I think about it.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: The gravity of some 900 g makes zero sense. People cite the comics but not only it's made by Sakamuthing and people have grown to loathe him since Other M, but in the comics, Samus is seen as nothing more than a vanilla kid, and that's on Zebes.
It doesn't matter if the environment might be dangerous after weeks of exposure. The question of that silly gravity is immediately resolved within a second: no human can withstand that. They'd be transformed into goo the moment they'd move.
It's a stupid figure and people who say it's canon are just stupid. They're totally incapable of criticism and they're just good to pick some bits from a Bible and parrot them endlessly.
I've not said "It's canon, tough luck", I've simply asked you prove it by scaling how fast Samus is actually moving. Then I provided a suggested method to verify how fast Samus moves in game, and provided the needed information for you to do it. You want me to do all the work to even though the burden of proof is on you?

Isn't Samus wearing a Zero suit type outfit in those images? The Zero Suit is not simple cloth. It is high tech body armor that would be god like in most settings. YOur Zero Suit is better armor then what Red Space Pirates use in Zero Mission.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: You don't see??
You got your unit wrong. It is kilometer per hour, not per second.
Yes, I see my mistake. I was writing the K.P.M. because I forgot to divide by 60 a second time. Why not just tell me?

Super Sonic is between :
1,470 and 6,150 K.P.H.
or
24.5 to 102.5 K.P.M.
or
0.40833333 to 1.70833333 K.P.S.

If Samus is falling at 10 kilometers per second as you say, then she is falling at hypersonic speeds.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Ok, let's say it's due to the combination of Chozo DNA + powersuit.
That is pretty much canon for the core games.

http://metroid.retropixel.net/metroid3/secrets.php

Beam Shields
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8422P3n8QE

Crystal Flash is the most obvious technique that Samus has powers beyond the power suit and arm cannon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5j7ddcBlQI

Mr. Oragahn wrote: No. It just means the varia has necessary components for the gravity suit that the bog standard power suit cannot sustain. What's the problem here exactly?
You seem to have missed the part in the OP where it is shown that Samus has had two different Chozo Power Suits. The first Chozo Power Suit Samus has can't use the Gravity Suit even when it has the Varia Suit, but the second Chozo Power Suit (the Fully Powered Chozo Power Suit) can. The second suit is what Samus uses in Metroid 2 and 3 until it is destroyed in Metroid 4 and she is given the Fusion Suit.

In Metroid 3 you can choose to turn on and off any power-up you have(Spaser beam and plasma beam can't be used at the same time). You do not need to use the Varia Suit to use the Gravity Suit.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: We already know that. Hence that large paragraph above to explain the technical details of how and why the suit does that.
Why assume a complex theory when a simpler one explains it. The Gravity Suit is just a diving suit with an odd name that creates another layer of shielding that used for supercavitation. Heck, it even syncs with what Nightmare does with gravity.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: I never said it manipulates gravity. Again, you're making stuff up.
It manipulates the way how the powersuit is affected by the environment, its gravity and inertia (thick fluids like water and else).
This statement looks like it is self contradictory.

You keep complaining that the gravity suit only helps Samus in liquids because and that it should help her in gases and vacuums as well because it has gravity in its, or at least that's what you entire argument seems to boil down to?

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:43 pm

Lucky wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote: So is there any problem? Bottle Station was maze-like enough as well. It was just messy and linear at times, just like in old times of metroidvania. The problem of Other M was the abuse of invisible walls, the lack of relevency of the touchable walls and such horrid lack of secret passages. That was infuriating.
It's as linear as your basic Super Mario Brothers level, and that isn't what a game calling itself Metroid should be.
Level design was crap, a simple backbonish excuse for Suckamoto's mediocre plot.
Take all those environmental elements you knew you couldn't activate right now, because you couldn't use the appropriate weapon or super power, which were not even hidden. They just were there in plain sight, and you knew you'd have to return to these places later on in the game, so even the mere idea of looking for secrets, quite the base for Metroid, was removed. Considering the linearity of the levels, you knew it meant exactly going through the absolutely same space, along the exact same path, later on in the game, and that already felt like a tiresome burden.
But, know that, most 3D games which were based on 2D games have largely completely done without the usual generous bag of secret passages. Other M, though, is really a super offender in this category.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Only if you manage to convince people that
- one person could destroy a planet
and
- that this Zebes planet, which was already know the first time since they had already sent Samus in while the Federation itself was failing to get inside by its own, was a quiet or inoffensive planet. That despite precisely the first attack from the Space Pirates found there.
Rather hard.
You're confusing Metroid 3(Super Metroid) with Metroid 4(Metroid Fusion).
Which planet you had in mind wasn't clear. Please reread your post, you'll see that you started talking about blasting planets and that was just as vague as it could get. Considering that the only moment I mentionned a planet was about Zebes' gravity, I thought you talked about Zebes as well.
Your point about what happens to SR388 in Metroid Fusion seems irrelevant, no?
Mr. Oragahn wrote: And so humans were also moving slowly? Because you also have to explain that then, since both humans and Samus were not shown moving at different speeds during cutscenes.
Ok, it's just a terrible excuse, that's all, and it's the same for Halo since we have all those cutscenes to see that cinematic action is identical to game action and cinematic action does not have humans moving super fast.
1) What cut scenes are you talking about? Metroids 1, 2, 3 and 4 don't really have cut scenes.
First, why exclude Other M in this batch of evidence that Samus shows no superior speed? Other M is rife with cutscenes that prove my point.
And in Fusion, the game does open with a cutscene, Samus followed by Federation troopers and being infected by the X parasite. All done in game engine. You see her shoot missiles, which move at speed x. We see troopers follow her at a speed that is perfectly normal for humans. So we know it's more or less real speed, nothing like slow mo. Meaning that what happens in game, since the missiles she fires move at the same speed than in the cutscene, means the game action also happens at normal speed.
2)The Flash and Superman can move at absurdly high speeds speeds if not faster then light, but they don't move at superhuman speed at all times, and that means by your logic that they can't?
Huh, that is not the point at all. And obviously you don't understand the reference about Halo either, because it has never been about a character having the capacity, from time to time, to achieve super powers and boosts.
No, it was about the idea that when you play, you're actually doing it in slowmo. That's the bullshit excuse I'm refering to, the one abused a lot by some Haloites a couple years ago about Master Chief.
3) A lot of Samus's abilities are nerfed in the Prime games do to them being too powerful. Space jump is a rather blunt example.
Yep.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Pay attention. You're terribly confused and mixing different things together!
I said Samus doesn't fall fast enough in water, but with the suit (since we're talking about the gravity suit), she's falling through water like through air.
I didn't say it had anything to do with the "stated level of gravity". Where the hell did you pick that???
Gravity is what causes you to fall. You stated that the official g rating is too high, but all I have is you word, and while I doubt you are lying, I would like something more then your opinion.
Talking about what the gravity suit does and the silly g figure for Zebes are two different topics.

Besides, don't you think that a gravity of ~900 g is massively stupid?
That's the figure obtained from the mass of planet Zebes given in whatever source, game or comics, can't remember.
That is a retarded gravity. With a pull that massive, Zebes would have already collapsed on its own and turned into a black hole a long time ago.
The gravity suit is seemingly for moving through liquids, and adds further protection.
You already said that. But it mentions gravity in the name, and two games also had it fight against different gravity levels. Well at least Other M did, while it seems Prime might have as well.
My point is that the gravity suit aims to reproduce the conditions of movement in atmosphere (say at sea level like on Earth, not liquid) at a ~1g gravity, along providing more protection. That's the idea. Since it can push fluids aside in a very efficient way, the only parameter that remains is the perceived gravity.
It must cast a protective forcefield which happens to reduce friction you'd get with air resistance.
I also said it probably and also needs to have a form of motion engine to help push the suit in the three directions, but in retrospect it may not be the case, and here's why: In a way, the force field digs into the fluid. It pushes matter aside, and sort of allows the wearer of the gravity suit to feel little to no resistance. As such, it is its own displacement technology. It's like a mole digging through the ground. Forcing matter to be moved behind you necessarily means you're going to move in the opposite direction, so it provides "thrust". Same in water, with a turbine; only that here, the system is more complex and the turbine is replaced by a very elaborate force-field "skin" that has fluidic matter crawl over it.
This function will be very good at reducing the damage caused by particles of all sorts because it pushes them aside and almost has them end like if they went through the wearer. It massively reduced transfer of energy by contact, which explains the near zero damage caused by lava (only even more dangerous fluids, like found in Tourian, still cause damage).
Which interestingly enough, if it worked on photons, would turn the gravity suit into a light-cloak (high tech camouflage).
We now have nanotech coatings that reduce friction with fluids to almsot nothing, but it's not capable of pushing the matter aside. A force field is needed for that and I believe that is what the gravity suit does.
Logically, such a force field wouldn't work as well against solid projectiles or lasers, or any particle with low intereaction properties.
On way for the force field to achieve its effect is to create a form of warp field. That is, affecting gravity to some extent.
It's also going to help a great deal in case of massive displacements of air, like in a storm or when a room is being vacuumed out into space, as air rushes and friction dramatically builds up.
The use of the gravity feature in Other M when a section of the station is being emptied of its air is a logical application.

It also reduces the effects of gravity in Other M when it's decidedly different from Earth's. Wikitroid also claims that it operates against light or strong gravity in Metroid Prime.
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Gravity_S ... fits_chart
I'm not sure about the last part.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: The speed booster just allows her to run super fast on the ground and actuall stick to said ground until she voluntarily jumps.
In games, I don't recall the speed booster affecting the gravitic pull on Samus.
The Speed Booster lets Samus run faster then sound, and that can be used to find out what the in scale is compared to the reality would be. Your claim seems to require the scale to be 1:1?
You lost me.
1:1 of what?
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Have you read any wikia or metroid database recently? All variants of this suit or bonuses that mimic their performances largely involve gravity.
The Gravity Suit in Metroids Zero Mission, 2, 3, and 4 is treat the as a diving suit that also strengthens defenses.

The only things I recall that points to the gravity suit actually having anything to do with gravity is that you get it from the Nightmare in Metroid 4
Which should be a huge indicator, since Nightmare is a device that manipulates gravity.
The gravity suit along with the Power Suit in general in Other M does not match any other game.
It merely adds, for sure, the ability to obtain a 1g effect in a super high gravity environment.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: So I can easily picture the gravity suit using some inertia dampeners and other mass/gravity manipulation related systems.
Supercavitation easily explains the sudden ease of movement in liquids, and why you suddenly don't take damage from certain liquids.

Supercavitation also helps explain how Speed Booster works, and how navigational deflectors might work in Star Trek now that I think about it.
See my point above.
Notice that supercavitation alone wouldn't suffice. It's fine to reduce friction, but it's not going to solve the problem of moving the mass of liquid out of the way.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: The gravity of some 900 g makes zero sense. People cite the comics but not only it's made by Sakamuthing and people have grown to loathe him since Other M, but in the comics, Samus is seen as nothing more than a vanilla kid, and that's on Zebes.
It doesn't matter if the environment might be dangerous after weeks of exposure. The question of that silly gravity is immediately resolved within a second: no human can withstand that. They'd be transformed into goo the moment they'd move.
It's a stupid figure and people who say it's canon are just stupid. They're totally incapable of criticism and they're just good to pick some bits from a Bible and parrot them endlessly.
I've not said "It's canon, tough luck", I've simply asked you prove it by scaling how fast Samus is actually moving. Then I provided a suggested method to verify how fast Samus moves in game, and provided the needed information for you to do it. You want me to do all the work to even though the burden of proof is on you?
Scale what to do what for what?
We have a mass for the planet given in some fluff. OK?
That allows for a quick calculation that gives a figure for the local gravitational field of Zebes.
It doesn't take a genius to know that a kid (before genetic modifications) couldn't survive in such an environment, contrary to what is portrayed in the comics.
It doesn't even take scalings from games happening on Zebes to know that it's bollocks.
Please realize that 900g represents. I even gave you a figure. You don't seem to get how stupid this acceleration is. Under one second of free fall, you'd already reach nearly 9 km/s. That's re-entry speed.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: You don't see??
You got your unit wrong. It is kilometer per hour, not per second.
Yes, I see my mistake. I was writing the K.P.M. because I forgot to divide by 60 a second time. Why not just tell me?

Super Sonic is between :
1,470 and 6,150 K.P.H.
or
24.5 to 102.5 K.P.M.
or
0.40833333 to 1.70833333 K.P.S.

If Samus is falling at 10 kilometers per second as you say, then she is falling at hypersonic speeds.
No, hypersonic max speeds stop around 3400 m/s.
Still, it's totally retarded to have a world where you reach hypersonic speeds after a free fall of one second. LOL
Not sure what this proves.
Crystal Flash is the most obvious technique that Samus has powers beyond the power suit and arm cannon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5j7ddcBlQI
Nothing precludes the armour from doing it.
Notice, btw, that the way the armour vanishes and allows Samus to be enclosed in a sphere of energy is perfectly in line with the idea of the upgraded power suit being a complicated energetic construct more than just a mechanical appendage. That is, in agreement with Other M.
It can really swing both ways.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: We already know that. Hence that large paragraph above to explain the technical details of how and why the suit does that.
Why assume a complex theory when a simpler one explains it. The Gravity Suit is just a diving suit with an odd name that creates another layer of shielding that used for supercavitation. Heck, it even syncs with what Nightmare does with gravity.
Because supercavitation to the level of the gravity suit require more than a massively reduced friction. You still have to move the mass out of the way, while your suit is far from being aerodynamic to begin with.
As for Nightmare, since it manipulates gravity, I think that goes very well against your reductionism that insists that gravity isn't involved.

The suit doesn't modify the gravity, since it's a force that's beyond the reach of the suit itself, cast by the sum of all matter in the environment that a world is.
What it does is work on the pull gravity has on the suit and anything inside. To be more specific, it doesn't affect gravity per se, but reduces the gravitational acceleration on the suit and the wearer.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Lucky » Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:51 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Which planet you had in mind wasn't clear. Please reread your post, you'll see that you started talking about blasting planets and that was just as vague as it could get. Considering that the only moment I mentionned a planet was about Zebes' gravity, I thought you talked about Zebes as well.
Your point about what happens to SR388 in Metroid Fusion seems irrelevant, no?
It's actual very clear which planet I was talking about as Zebes was not blown up with Federation troops on the way. You confused Metroid 3 with Metroid 4.

In Metroid 4 Samus is being was hired by the Federation, and expected to follow their orders.
Metroid: Fusion wrote:
Samus: The ship's computer has notified me of our approach to the Biologic Space Labs, or B.S.L, research station. During my surgery, the research team sent the last batch of creatures we captured there, as well as the infected pieces of my Power Suit.


After regaining consciousness, I learned that an unexplained explosion rocked the station. For some reason, this awoke a nameless fear in my heart, and now I am being sent there to investigate. My mission on the B.S.L station will be overseen by my new ship's computer.


Following the commands of this blunt, computerized CO is something I have to bear, as it was a condition of my taking the ship. For someone who dislikes taking orders, this is the second time I've found myself having to do so. It makes me recall my other CO...
later Samus is ordered to leave
Metroid: Fusion wrote:
SC: Samus, we're done here. Leave the rest to the Federation... We should be preparing to evacuate the station...

(Samus' portrait appears along with a speech box)

Samus: Are you joking?! Do they know how dangerous the X are? ...How quickly they reproduce?


SC: The Federation has taken an interest in the X and SA-X. They believe this life-form had endless potential applications.


Samus: This is ridiculous! The X are heartless abominations! What potential could they have?


SC: It is not necessary that you understand such matters. The Federation is coming now. You should just leave quietly...


Samus: This is madness! They won't stand a chance here! This station will devour them! What could be worth the risk!?


SC: Capturing the SA-X, of course.


Samus: ...Are you serious? Do they really think they can succeed?


SC: It will certainly be difficult. They don't expect your help. They knew you would try to destroy the SA-X... That's why they stopped sending you support data... The Plasma Beam modification was ready some time ago, but they withheld it to keep you from engaging the SA-X. Yet somehow you restored that function on your own... They also tried to withhold the Diffusion Missile upgrade because they didn't want you to grow too powerful. But they had already sent it, and you tracked it down... Bravo, Samus.


Samus: They must cancel this mission! Open a channel to HQ! I won't let this happen!


SC: They are already on their way.


Samus: Fools..
.
Instead of doing her job and following orders Samus destroys the station and the the planet below, and runs away. unlike Zebes the Federation wanted the B.S.L. station and SR388 in tact.

So, no, in Metroid 4 Samus disobeyed orders from her employer, and destroyed their property. Samus committed crimes by destroying government property, and then ran for it rather then try to explain herself.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
First, why exclude Other M in this batch of evidence that Samus shows no superior speed? Other M is rife with cutscenes that prove my point.
Other M doesn't even try to mesh with the rest of the Metroid games. We've been over this, the fact Samus's armor technology alone is vastly different from what she uses in Metroid 1, Zero Mission, and Fusion
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
And in Fusion, the game does open with a cutscene, Samus followed by Federation troopers and being infected by the X parasite. All done in game engine. You see her shoot missiles, which move at speed x. We see troopers follow her at a speed that is perfectly normal for humans. So we know it's more or less real speed, nothing like slow mo. Meaning that what happens in game, since the missiles she fires move at the same speed than in the cutscene, means the game action also happens at normal speed.
Those aren't Federation troops in the flashback.

I don't see how you can take that scene literally?
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Huh, that is not the point at all. And obviously you don't understand the reference about Halo either, because it has never been about a character having the capacity, from time to time, to achieve super powers and boosts.
If the character has super-speed then they need the reaction times to use it, or they are just run in straight line which Samus does not do
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
No, it was about the idea that when you play, you're actually doing it in slowmo. That's the bullshit excuse I'm refering to, the one abused a lot by some Haloites a couple years ago about Master Chief.
But game mechanics are not the reality of the setting even if they reflect it in an abstract manner.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Besides, don't you think that a gravity of ~900 g is massively stupid?
That's the figure obtained from the mass of planet Zebes given in whatever source, game or comics, can't remember.
That is a retarded gravity. With a pull that massive, Zebes would have already collapsed on its own and turned into a black hole a long time ago.
It is stated as early as Metroid 1 that Zebes is made out of unobtanium. It is the reason Samus can't damage the tunnels.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
You already said that. But it mentions gravity in the name, and two games also had it fight against different gravity levels. Well at least Other M did, while it seems Prime might have as well.
My point is that the gravity suit aims to reproduce the conditions of movement in atmosphere (say at sea level like on Earth, not liquid) at a ~1g gravity, along providing more protection. That's the idea. Since it can push fluids aside in a very efficient way, the only parameter that remains is the perceived gravity.
It must cast a protective forcefield which happens to reduce friction you'd get with air resistance.
I also said it probably and also needs to have a form of motion engine to help push the suit in the three directions, but in retrospect it may not be the case, and here's why: In a way, the force field digs into the fluid. It pushes matter aside, and sort of allows the wearer of the gravity suit to feel little to no resistance. As such, it is its own displacement technology. It's like a mole digging through the ground. Forcing matter to be moved behind you necessarily means you're going to move in the opposite direction, so it provides "thrust". Same in water, with a turbine; only that here, the system is more complex and the turbine is replaced by a very elaborate force-field "skin" that has fluidic matter crawl over it.
This function will be very good at reducing the damage caused by particles of all sorts because it pushes them aside and almost has them end like if they went through the wearer. It massively reduced transfer of energy by contact, which explains the near zero damage caused by lava (only even more dangerous fluids, like found in Tourian, still cause damage).
Which interestingly enough, if it worked on photons, would turn the gravity suit into a light-cloak (high tech camouflage).
We now have nanotech coatings that reduce friction with fluids to almsot nothing, but it's not capable of pushing the matter aside. A force field is needed for that and I believe that is what the gravity suit does.
Logically, such a force field wouldn't work as well against solid projectiles or lasers, or any particle with low intereaction properties.
On way for the force field to achieve its effect is to create a form of warp field. That is, affecting gravity to some extent.
It's also going to help a great deal in case of massive displacements of air, like in a storm or when a room is being vacuumed out into space, as air rushes and friction dramatically builds up.
The use of the gravity feature in Other M when a section of the station is being emptied of its air is a logical application.

It also reduces the effects of gravity in Other M when it's decidedly different from Earth's. Wikitroid also claims that it operates against light or strong gravity in Metroid Prime.
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Gravity_S ... fits_chart
I'm not sure about the last part.
0) When do we see anti-gravity have visable effects beyond the Nightmare?

1) The suit used in Other M is not the Fully Powered Suit used in the other Metroid game, and that ignores the other issues. Who ever wrote Other M seemingly never bothered to read a single Metroid which is rather sad when you're talking about Metroid 1, 2, 3, and Zero Mission.

2) I have no idea what the wiki you linked to is referring to when they talk about Metroid: Prime.

3) Saying that such a system should turn Samus invisible really matters to what degree to which the you warp space-time rather then all or nothing.
http://physicsforme.com/2011/08/20/grav ... -cloaking/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloaking_device

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theories_of_cloaking

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_shielding

4) They have some sort of anti-gravity that lets ships float with little to no downward thrust. There is the possibility of a fifth force at work, or literal magic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_force

5) The gravity suit might simply shield Samus from gravitational fields.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_shielding
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
You lost me.
1:1 of what?
Scale, like on a map or model train set. For you to claim things are not represented correctly you need to show what scale the game is in.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Which should be a huge indicator, since Nightmare is a device that manipulates gravity.
Given the X tended to randomly steal Samus's upgrades it's hardly a smoking gun, or did you forget the plant that had the plasma cannon, and a possessed human scientist had the charge beam.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
It merely adds, for sure, the ability to obtain a 1g effect in a super high gravity environment.
And what does that have to do with the gravity suit when the Zero Suit does that without a Chozo Power Suit of any kind to help?
http://www.metroid-database.com/mzm/art/MZMZSSE.png

Heck, the gravity boot is a bleeping underwater jet-pack.
http://www.metroidwiki.org/wiki/Gravity_Boost
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
See my point above.
Notice that supercavitation alone wouldn't suffice. It's fine to reduce friction, but it's not going to solve the problem of moving the mass of liquid out of the way.
Perhaps that is the wrong way to describe what I was trying to say. The gravity suit upgrade makes it so you move through liquid as if it was air, and does so seemingly through some sort of improved shielding.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Scale what to do what for what?
We have a mass for the planet given in some fluff. OK?
That allows for a quick calculation that gives a figure for the local gravitational field of Zebes.
It doesn't take a genius to know that a kid (before genetic modifications) couldn't survive in such an environment, contrary to what is portrayed in the comics.
It doesn't even take scalings from games happening on Zebes to know that it's bollocks.
Please realize that 900g represents. I even gave you a figure. You don't seem to get how stupid this acceleration is. Under one second of free fall, you'd already reach nearly 9 km/s. That's re-entry speed.
1) Scale as in maps or model trains.

2) YOu made a claim, and while i don't think you are lying, i can't be sure you are correct. It's the whole burden of proof thing at sites like this.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
No, hypersonic max speeds stop around 3400 m/s.
Still, it's totally retarded to have a world where you reach hypersonic speeds after a free fall of one second. LOL
Seems like a place that superhuman martial artists would want to train.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Not sure what this proves.
The beam shields imply energy manipulation powers may be a possibility.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Nothing precludes the armour from doing it.
Notice, btw, that the way the armour vanishes and allows Samus to be enclosed in a sphere of energy is perfectly in line with the idea of the upgraded power suit being a complicated energetic construct more than just a mechanical appendage. That is, in agreement with Other M.
It can really swing both ways.
1) The armor teleports away while Samus absorbs the energy when she perform Crystal Flash. This shows it is not a function of the armor.

2) Zero Mission and Fusion state the armors are physical objects. The Federation had to cut Samus's armor off of her in Metroid 4 after all, and that is how the SA-X got Samus's armor.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Because supercavitation to the level of the gravity suit require more than a massively reduced friction. You still have to move the mass out of the way, while your suit is far from being aerodynamic to begin with.
As for Nightmare, since it manipulates gravity, I think that goes very well against your reductionism that insists that gravity isn't involved.

The suit doesn't modify the gravity, since it's a force that's beyond the reach of the suit itself, cast by the sum of all matter in the environment that a world is.
What it does is work on the pull gravity has on the suit and anything inside. To be more specific, it doesn't affect gravity per se, but reduces the gravitational acceleration on the suit and the wearer.
1) Gravity Boost is just a jet-pack that functions underwater. If the word gravity was not in the name of the gravity suit, i doubt you would be assuming gravity was involved.

2) An X having Y upgrade tells us nothing about the upgrade.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:21 am

It's actual very clear which planet I was talking about as Zebes was not blown up with Federation troops on the way. You confused Metroid 3 with Metroid 4.

In Metroid 4 Samus is being was hired by the Federation, and expected to follow their orders.
In your head, perhaps it was clear. On the forum, not. You started talking about a planet I didn't give a damn about and btw it is totally possible that some Federation troops were on their way to Zebes as well after the raid on the Ceres station by space pirates.
Frankly, all of this does not really matter either, does it?
I talk about Zebes' stupid gravity.
Those aren't Federation troops in the flashback.
I remember they were Federation troops. What were they then?
I don't see how you can take that scene literally?
It's an official cutscene made with the same engine that is used for the game. Aside from the obvious limitations, if the cutscene was supposed to be a good rendition of what reality might have been, then if reality was going on much faster than what goes on in game, we'd have good reasons to expect "must faster" anything in the cutscene. We don't, I rest my point. Can we move on?
If the character has super-speed then they need the reaction times to use it, or they are just run in straight line which Samus does not do
Do our pilots need supernatural reaction times when they fly at mach speeds?
No.
It is stated as early as Metroid 1 that Zebes is made out of unobtanium. It is the reason Samus can't damage the tunnels.
Well then I guess that EVERYTHING is made of that same material in all games, because Samus' weapons never get through anyting, even grass.
Silly data is silly data. Smart people use reason as much as possible.
Scale, like on a map or model train set. For you to claim things are not represented correctly you need to show what scale the game is in.
What is not represented correctly?
Given the X tended to randomly steal Samus's upgrades it's hardly a smoking gun, or did you forget the plant that had the plasma cannon, and a possessed human scientist had the charge beam.
In general the power is related to the holder. Are you saying that the plant and the possessed individual had no relation at all to the powers they gave?
And what does that have to do with the gravity suit when the Zero Suit does that without a Chozo Power Suit of any kind to help?
http://www.metroid-database.com/mzm/art/MZMZSSE.png
If you decide to quote or post pictures, please try to verify they're relevant first.
Some random drawn sketch of the Zero Suit doesn't tell much.
So what's your point?
What is the point of all of this in fact?
Heck, the gravity boot is a bleeping underwater jet-pack.
http://www.metroidwiki.org/wiki/Gravity_Boost
Which says: "Originally worn by the Champion of Aether,[1] this jet pack only functions underwater for use in rising to the surface with ease. The Gravity Boost's functions also include those of Metroid Prime's Gravity Suit, allowing Samus to move freely in water without being slowed down by its density."

Which in return would mean the backpack also produces the same effect the gravity suit does. Which means it would also produce the same very likely forcefield that allows motion through fluids.

Also: "After obtaining the Light Suit, the Gravity Boost is no longer visible, yet it still functions."

So the backpack is sort of assimilated by the light suit. Meaning that the trusters are just a plus to the main function of this extra equipment, the main function being clearly similar to that of the gravity suit.

So where are you going with that?
You seem to be randomly quoting stuff and that's pointless.

Thus far the debate has largely been about Zebes' gravity and the gravity suit and any relation to gravity.
1) Scale as in maps or model trains.

2) YOu made a claim, and while i don't think you are lying, i can't be sure you are correct. It's the whole burden of proof thing at sites like this.
The only claim I made is saying the calculated gravity is stupid from the data collected on the Metroid Prime website and the game itself (see here).
There's no lying here, it's a matter of sense and science.

Seems like a place that superhuman martial artists would want to train.
Seems like a place where they'd immediately die unless they were gods and capable to cope with constant impacts in the hypersonic range everytime they walk.
Oh please tell me this stupidity it starting to look obvious to you to.

1) The armor teleports away while Samus absorbs the energy when she perform Crystal Flash. This shows it is not a function of the armor.

2) Zero Mission and Fusion state the armors are physical objects. The Federation had to cut Samus's armor off of her in Metroid 4 after all, and that is how the SA-X got Samus's armor.
1. The armour disappears in a flash instant, which might an accelerated version of the base mechanism seen in Other M, due to the "super power" nature of that flash-function. There is no contradiction, only a super similarity.

2. Other M's armour IS a physical object as well. It's just that Samus can summon it. The introduction also had scientists clean up the suit and scavange Metroid bits, while Samus was unconscious. So that's in line with the suit not disappearing just because Samus takes a nap. There's no contradiction here, and not more with the idea that said suit would have biological elements and be tied to Samus. Harping it's an "energy construct" just because it can summoned is like saying a human is an energy construct just because someone can beam him up. Not to say that mass and energy are largely interchangeable in physics.
1) Gravity Boost is just a jet-pack that functions underwater. If the word gravity was not in the name of the gravity suit, i doubt you would be assuming gravity was involved.

2) An X having Y upgrade tells us nothing about the upgrade.
1. Well, didn't I precisely start assuming gravity was somewhat involved in that because of the name?? yes, I think I did. How was the question, but in general, unless we want to consider all designers across the Metroid universe to be cretins, we may have a good reason to think that all of them had a good reason to call that "gravity suit".

2. I don't understand.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Aran's Armors

Post by Lucky » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:04 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote: In your head, perhaps it was clear. On the forum, not. You started talking about a planet I didn't give a damn about and btw it is totally possible that some Federation troops were on their way to Zebes as well after the raid on the Ceres station by space pirates.
Frankly, all of this does not really matter either, does it?
I talk about Zebes' stupid gravity.
1) You need to reread the thread. Zebes's gravity is only one of the topics, and I spesifically stated I was talking about the events in Metroid 4 AKA Metroid Fusion as not matching Other M. Zebes does not appear in Metroid 4.



2) Your logic can be used to claim the ICS are correct. You need to rethink your line of thinking here. There is no evidence that Samus told the Federation about the events in Metroid 3 AKA Super Metroid until after everything happened. The S.O.S. Samus answered from CERES station would not have told the Federation who attacked it, or where they went afterward, and Samus did not tell anyone until after Zebes was destroyed.

3) The Armor used in Other M seems to be the same technology used to create the enemies in the Tubilar at the start of the game while the armors in Zero Mission and Fusion are physical objects even when Samus is not wearing them.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: I remember they were Federation troops. What were they then?
Federation troops were being sent to the station, but they never appear in the game.

You are likely thinking of the Biologic's research team Samus was hired to guard. They were shown in a flashback at the start of the game wearing armor that was similar to what Federation troops are normally shown to wear. Given the known wildlife on SR388 ot is not really strange that they would wear combat armor.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: It's an official cutscene made with the same engine that is used for the game. Aside from the obvious limitations, if the cutscene was supposed to be a good rendition of what reality might have been, then if reality was going on much faster than what goes on in game, we'd have good reasons to expect "must faster" anything in the cutscene. We don't, I rest my point. Can we move on?
In other word the vague flashback Samus having has the same limitations as the game, and is not a sceen you'd expect Samus to be using her abilities.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Do our pilots need supernatural reaction times when they fly at mach speeds?
No.
Last time I checked real world humans did not have dog fights at Mach speeds. Samus Aran's shine sparking requires split second timing and and notable precision.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Well then I guess that EVERYTHING is made of that same material in all games, because Samus' weapons never get through anyting, even grass.
Silly data is silly data. Smart people use reason as much as possible.
The reason Samus can bomb, Power Bomb, Missile, Super Missile, Shine Spark her way through things is because it isn't all the same stuff. Heck, you can even blast the grass in some places in the Prime games. You complain that Samus can't blast the scenery while ignoring the limitations of the medium, and yes, most of the games take place in environments that are rather odd.
Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime: Hunters wrote: ARM CANNON
An essential part of SAMUS's POWER SUIT, the ARM CANNON is UPGRADEABLE and adaptable to other weaponry. To fire the weapon, press the FIRE button. Switch weapons by tapping the weapon icons at the top of the touch screen.
Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime: Hunters wrote: POWER BEAM
Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime: Hunters wrote: CHARGE BEAM
By holding down and releasing the FIRE button, the ARM CANNON is able to fire concentrated charge bursts.
Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime Hunters wrote: The VOLT DRIVER draws energy from the planetary electromagnetic field and converts it into multi-terrawatt bursts of HIGHVOLTAGE.
Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime: Hunters wrote: The BATTLEHAMMER is powered by a miniature nuclear reactor. This HEAVY-DUTY repeater is recommended only for those familiar with high-caliber weaponry.
Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime Hunters wrote: The JUDICATOR is powered by cold-fusion synthesis. It fires SUPERCOOLED PLASMA at temperatures approaching absolute zero.
Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime: Hunters wrote: The SHOCK COIL is a prototype federation weapon that emits a concentrated beam of high-density NEUTRINOS within a set radius.
Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime: Hunters wrote: The MAGMAUL, powered by a hyperstatic hydrogen core, fires cohesive projectiles of SUPERHEATED MAGMA.
Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime: Hunters wrote: Equiped with a ZOOM function ideal for PRECISION targeting, the IMPERIALIST fires a thin and lethal beam with high accuracy over long distances.
Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime: Hunters wrote: Launches explosive-tipped MISSILES that detonate in a percussive blast. The standard-issue weapon is extremely effective in dealing with biological threats. Hold FIRE button to charge the weapon and cause the MISSILE to seek heat signatures. Charging will attract energy and ammo.
Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime: Hunters wrote: OMEGA CANNON
This proscribed weapon of mass destruction was called an abomination by the ALIMBIC ELDERS because of the harm it could inflict on anyone desperate enough to use it.

Franchise: Metroid Title: Prime: Hunters wrote: Replenishes 25 Rounds of Universal Ammo. Morphing UA contains munitions nanotechnology engineered for instant adaptation to almost any weapon, altering caliber and composition at the molecular level to match the ballistic specifications of the host weapon.

You're hung up because they have insanely good gravity technology while ignoring the other silliness. You have guns that shoot NEUTRINOS and magma for crying out loud. Cold weapons lower temperatures to near absolute zero without harming anything other then it hits.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: What is not represented correctly?
You need to show that everything is to the proper scale because you are saying things are not correct. I know you understand what burden of proof is.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: In general the power is related to the holder. Are you saying that the plant and the possessed individual had no relation at all to the powers they gave?
Missile Launcher:
Downloaded from computer

Morph Ball:
Arachnus X is a monster that rolls into a ball
It sort of has a connection to the power-up it grants

Charge Beam:
Core-X disguised as a Chozo Statue
No relationship with power-up

Morph Ball Bomb:
Down Loaded from Computer


Hi-Jump/Jumpball:
Giant condom monster that tries to jump on you
It sort of has a connection to the power-up it grants

Speed Booster
Sea serpent
Monster form has no connection to power-up, but uses power-up to attack

Super Missile
Downloaded from computer

Varia Suit
Fight a Core-X with no monster form
No relationship with power-up

Ice Missile:
Down Loaded from Computer

Wide Beam
Monster form is a human scientist.
No relationship with power-up

Power Bomb:
Down Loaded from Computer

Space Jump:
Giant Spider
No relationship with power-up

Plasma Beam:
Over grown plant
No relationship with power-up

Gravity Suit:
Infested Nightmare
Nightmare had gravity powers before it was infested by the X

Diffusion Missile:
Down Loaded from a computer

Wave Beam:
Security Robot B.O.X.
No relationship with power-up

Screw Atack
Ridley X
No relationship with power-up

Ice Beam:
SA-X
Was Samus's armor with an X impersonating her

Down Loaded from Computer
6

Monster Had No Connection
8

Monster Had A Connection
3

It would seem like the majority of X that gave power-ups had little to nothing to do with the power-up they gave.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: If you decide to quote or post pictures, please try to verify they're relevant first.
Some random drawn sketch of the Zero Suit doesn't tell much.
So what's your point?
What is the point of all of this in fact?
You're harping about a picture that shows the Zero suit isn't intended to be cloth while ignoring the text.

The Zero suit isn't just one of those sexy suits athletes wear in the Olympics. It is high tech body armor that generates shields.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Which says: "Originally worn by the Champion of Aether,[1] this jet pack only functions underwater for use in rising to the surface with ease. The Gravity Boost's functions also include those of Metroid Prime's Gravity Suit, allowing Samus to move freely in water without being slowed down by its density."

Which in return would mean the backpack also produces the same effect the gravity suit does. Which means it would also produce the same very likely forcefield that allows motion through fluids.

Also: "After obtaining the Light Suit, the Gravity Boost is no longer visible, yet it still functions."

So the backpack is sort of assimilated by the light suit. Meaning that the trusters are just a plus to the main function of this extra equipment, the main function being clearly similar to that of the gravity suit.

So where are you going with that?
You seem to be randomly quoting stuff and that's pointless.

Thus far the debate has largely been about Zebes' gravity and the gravity suit and any relation to gravity.
You're quoting a wiki rather then the sources sited when the sources are written in full on the page?

"Our champion used a device that made moving through liquid like moving through air. The Ing have taken it. If you wish to explore Torvus freely, you will take it from them!" —A-Voq

"After doing a Space Jump in water, press and hold B and you will be able to rise up through the water for a fixed time" Metroid Prime Trilogy Instruction Booklet, Pg 29

Check the back of the light suit
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/art ... 527001.jpg
Those look like thrusters to me. Samus's normal suits also have what appear to be thrusters on them.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: The only claim I made is saying the calculated gravity is stupid from the data collected on the Metroid Prime website and the game itself (see here).
There's no lying here, it's a matter of sense and science.
You're complaining about things getting a touch silly when talking about literal space wizards, the low tech Federation has neutrino weapons in the setting, and Ridleys fly between planets without a ship, but you find high gravity world the most bothersome aspect?
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Seems like a place where they'd immediately die unless they were gods and capable to cope with constant impacts in the hypersonic range everytime they walk.
Oh please tell me this stupidity it starting to look obvious to you to.
I though the Chozo and Luminoth were more or less the gods of the Metroid universe?
Mr. Oragahn wrote: 1. The armour disappears in a flash instant, which might an accelerated version of the base mechanism seen in Other M, due to the "super power" nature of that flash-function. There is no contradiction, only a super similarity.

2. Other M's armour IS a physical object as well. It's just that Samus can summon it. The introduction also had scientists clean up the suit and scavange Metroid bits, while Samus was unconscious. So that's in line with the suit not disappearing just because Samus takes a nap. There's no contradiction here, and not more with the idea that said suit would have biological elements and be tied to Samus. Harping it's an "energy construct" just because it can summoned is like saying a human is an energy construct just because someone can beam him up. Not to say that mass and energy are largely interchangeable in physics.
Hows about no?
4:50 you see Samus suit up, and they make a big show about the Power Suit being a projection. There is nothing solid about the Power Suit in Other M, and they go out of their way to make it very clear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6sZvLPU46Y

The infamous failure when facing the Ridley clone is just icing on the cake.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: 1. Well, didn't I precisely start assuming gravity was somewhat involved in that because of the name?? yes, I think I did. How was the question, but in general, unless we want to consider all designers across the Metroid universe to be cretins, we may have a good reason to think that all of them had a good reason to call that "gravity suit".
I guess you think the Sonic Boom is a sonic attack, it isn't.
http://www.metroidwiki.org/wiki/File:Sonic_Boom_02.png
Mr. Oragahn wrote: 2. I don't understand.
The X infested Nightmare give you the gravity suit in Fusion, but what an X-Core gives you has little to nothing to do with what its non-X form was.

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