The Reapers in 22nd Century Star Trek

[User1401]

The Reapers (from Mass Effect) are returning through the Citadel when a a sneeze by a random omnipotent being throws off their jump. The Reapers -- and an uninhabited Citadel -- are transported to the edge of explored space (by Starfleet) in the Alpha Quadrant in the year 2156 prior to the outbreak of the Earth-Romulan War. A number of Collector Cruisers are transported as well, to transport Reaper ground forces and aid in the harvesting of populations. The Collector Base will be used as a cloning facility for the Collectors.

The Reapers are cautious at first, but send out scouts investigating this strange galaxy. They determine that the many races have reached a level of technology as to be ready for harvesting, and set about to harvest the Star Trek galaxy.

The Q, time-traveling future Federation, and other cosmically powerful Star Trek entities (Trelane, the Organians, the Metrons, etc) will not interfere, and the Reapers ignore them if they come across them.

[Lucky]

JELLICO: I began my career as a shuttle pilot, on the Jovian run. Jupiter to Saturn and back once a day, every day.

LAFORGE: Is that right? I was on that run myself for a while. 

JELLICO: Then you must've done Titan's Turn. 

LAFORGE: Oh, yeah. You set a course directly for Titan, hold it until you're just brushing the atmosphere, throw the helm hard over and whip around the moon at point seven c. 

JELLICO: And pray like hell nobody saw you. 

LAFORGE: You know, this trip into the nebula's going to need someone who can do Titan's Turn in their sleep. These mines need to be laid within two kilometres of the Cardassian ships. But the particle flux from the nebula will blind all the sensors except for this proximity detector. You're going to need one heck of a pilot to pull that off.

Titan's Turn is performed manually. If the pilot used an automated system then it would not be a matter of piloting skill.

.7c is about 210,000 kilometers per second
1/210,000= 4.7619048E-06= .0000047619048
1 km every .0000047619048 seconds

Titan's upper atmosphere is about 975 kilometers from the surface.
975*.0000047619048= 0.00464285718

The pilot of the shuttle will have about 0.00464285718 seconds before hitting Titan.

Normal human reaction times is about .3 to .215 seconds.
http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/rea ... /stats.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzhs1Z8Rwnk

SPOCK: Decoding memory banks. I'll try to interpolate. The Valiant had encountered a magnetic space storm and was being swept in this direction. 


KIRK: The old impulse engines weren't strong enough. 


SPOCK: Swept past this point, about a half light year out of the galaxy, they were thrown clear, turned, and headed back into the galaxy here. I'm not getting it all. The tapes are pretty badly burned. Sounds like the ship had encountered some unknown force. Now, orders, counter orders, repeated urgent requests for information from the ship's computer records for anything concerning ESP in human beings. 


KIRK: Extrasensory perception. Doctor Dehner, how are you on ESP? 


DEHNER: In tests I've taken, my ESP rated rather high. 


KIRK: I'm asking what you know about ESP. 


DEHNER: It is a fact that some people can sense future happenings, read the backs of playing cards and so on, but the esper capacity is always quite limited. 


SPOCK: Severe damage. Seven crewmen dead. No, make that six. One crewman seemed to have recovered. That's when they became interested in extrasensory perception. More than interested, almost frantic about it. No, this must be garbled. I get something about destruct. I must have read it wrong. It sounded like the captain giving an order to destroy his own ship. 


KIRK: Comments? 


PIPER: The only fact we have for sure is that the S.S. Valiant was destroyed. 


KIRK: That's probably the best argument to continue the probe. Other vessels will be heading out here someday and they'll have to know what they'll be facing. We're leaving the galaxy, Mister Mitchell. Ahead, warp factor one. 


SPOCK: Force field of some kind.

Humans have latent psionic potential

RAVELLER: Captain, I seek only transportation in order to see and experience your reality. I am no a threat to you, your ship or your crew. 


WESLEY: He isn't, Captain. I know he isn't. 


PICARD: Our reality? And in order to satisfy this curiosity, you have brought my ship and my crew into great risk. 


TRAVELLER: I have made some mistakes. 


PICARD: Some mistakes? What mistakes could possibly explain these incredible explosions of velocity? 


TRAVELLER: I don't know if I can put this in terms you'll understand. 


PICARD: I believe there may be a warp speed that can get us beyond Galaxy M Thirty Three, but there is no velocity of any magnitude that can possibly bring us wherever this is. Is it true what our navigation sensors are telling us? Are we millions of light years away from where we were? 


TRAVELLER: Well, yes. 


PICARD: Well, what got us here? 


TRAVELLER: Thought. 


PICARD: Thought? 


TRAVELLER: You do understand, don't you that thought is the basis of all reality? The energy of thought, to put it in your terms, is very powerful. 


KOSINSKI: That's not an explanation. 


TRAVELLER: I have the ability to act like a lens which focuses thought. 


KOSINSKI: That's just so much nonsense. You're asking us to believe in magic. 


TRAVELLER: Well yes, this could seem like magic to you. 


PICARD: No. No, it actually makes sense to me. Only the power of thought could explain what has been happening. Especially out here. 


TRAVELLER: Thought is the essence of where you are now. You do understand the danger, don't you? 


PICARD: Chaos. What we think is what happens. 


TRAVELLER: It pains me I was so careless, Captain. My intent was only to observe, not to cause this. You should not be here until your far, far distant future. Certainly not until you have learned control. 


RIKER: You are from a different time, aren't you? 


TRAVELLER: Well, no, not exactly from another time. Although as you understand the concept, yes, perhaps that term fits as well as any. 


RIKER: And you have this ability to travel. 


TRAVELLER: Yes. 


RIKER: And others of your kind have the same ability? 


TRAVELLER: Yes. 


RIKER: Then why, in all of our history, is there no record of you or someone like you ever having visited us? 


TRAVELLER: What wonderful arrogance. There is no record because we have not visited you before. 


RIKER: Why not? 


TRAVELLER: Well, up until now, if you'll forgive this, you've been uninteresting. It's only now that your life form merits serious attention. I'm sorry. 


PICARD: What's happening? 


CRUSHER: He's unconscious again. 


PICARD: Revive him. 


CRUSHER: Whatever you need from him, you'd better get it soon. 


RIKER: If I may suggest, sir, that first leap out of our galaxy was, as he said, a mistake. 


PICARD: Unless he was distracted by something. 


RIKER: And it weakened him, in some way leading to the incredible leap out here. 


KOSINSKI: Theory! 


PICARD: Do you have any facts that fit this? Can you get us back? 


KOSINSKI: Wait, Captain, not so fast. We have an opportunity here for scientific discovery. 


PICARD: And we report our observations how? To whom? (to the Traveller) Can you get us back? 


TRAVELLER: I will try. 


PICARD: Number One, take him down to main Engineering. I'll be on the Bridge. 


WESLEY: No! He's very weak.


TRAVELLER: The Captain's right. We must hurry. But first, I request a moment with the Captain. Alone. 


(Riker, Kosinski, Crusher and Wesley leave) 


PICARD: Strange how he seems to care for you. 


TRAVELLER: He will forget me in time, which is as it should be. It's Wesley I wanted to speak to you about. 


PICARD: The boy? 


TRAVELLER: It's best you do not repeat this to the others, especially not to the mother. Whatever may happen, it is imperative that it proceed naturally. 


PICARD: I must get my ship back. Do we have time for this? 


TRAVELLER: Oh, yes. He and a few like him are why I travel. You have it in your power to encourage him without interfering. 


PICARD: Encourage him in what? 


TRAVELLER: How shall I explain? Are you familiar with the intricacies of what is called here music? 


PICARD: Somewhat. 


TRAVELLER: Such musical genius I saw in one of your ship's libraries. One called Mozart, who as a small child wrote astonishing symphonies. A genius who made music not only to be heard, but seen and felt beyond the understanding, the ability of others. Wesley is such a person. Not with music, but with the equally lovely intricacies of time, energy, propulsion. and the instruments of this vessel which allow all that to be played. You're right, I must hurry now. But you're right in something else. He is just a boy for now. He should be encouraged, but told none of this.

Captain's log, stardate 44162.8. At the direction of the Traveller, the Enterprise is returning to Starbase one three three and the precise position where the subspace bubble was formed.


[Engineering]


TRAVELLER: Our goal will be to create a stable gateway between our reality and your mother's reality. 


WESLEY: We've tried. We can't stabilise the link. 


TRAVELLER: Of course not. The equations are only the first step. We will be going beyond mathematics. 


WESLEY: Just tell me what I have to do. 


TRAVELLER: Begin by letting go of your guilt, Wesley. 


WESLEY: It's my fault. I shouldn't have tried 


TRAVELLER: Focus on the present. You will have to be here completely to help her back. You must open yourself to time and space and the intricate threads that bind them. Begin entering your warp field equations. Now close your eyes. See past the numbers. Trust yourself. 


WESLEY: I can't. I can't do it. 


TRAVELLER: When the time comes, you will, Wesley. You will.

WORF: I cannot allow you to hold these men as prisoners. 


WAKASA: You have no authority here. 


(the fight starts with a Cardassian and Indian struggling for a weapon, which keeps firing into the air. Then others join in. Wesley runs forward) 


WESLEY: No! 


(and everything stops, including the Cardassian falling after being shot in the chest. Lakanta walks over to Wesley, the only two still moving) 


WESLEY: What happened? Did you do this? 


LAKANTA: I didn't do anything. You did. 


WESLEY: I did? 


LAKANTA: You pulled yourself out of their time. You took the first step, Wesley. 


WESLEY: My first step to where? 


LAKANTA: To another plane of existence, another way of thinking. 


WESLEY: I don't understand. 


LAKANTA: You've found a new beginning for yourself. The first step on a journey that few humans will ever take. 


WESLEY: Who are you? (Lakanta transforms) The Traveller. 


TRAVELLER: I've been waiting a long time for this moment, Wesley. 


WESLEY: So all those things I saw in the Habak, my father, and the things he said to me, that was your doing? 


TRAVELLER: I merely opened the door for you. What you experienced came from your own mind, your own spirit if you wish. I hoped that you would open your mind to new possibilities, and you did. You pulled yourself out of time, don't you see? You've evolved to a new level you're ready to explore places where thought and energy combine in ways you can't even imagine. And I will be your guide, if you would like. 


WESLEY: What about them? I can't just leave them like this. 


TRAVELLER: They must find their own destinies, Wesley. It's not our place to interfere. 


WESLEY: But 


TRAVELLER: Have faith in their abilities to solve their problems on their own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QKSjBiG2c

Humans can manipulate time and space with their minds. Picard and Riker slow time in order to dodge a phaser blast in Conspiracy, and Wesley out right stops time from his perspective.

Q: Yes, the human compulsion. And unfortunately for us, it is a power which will grow stronger century after century, aeon after aeon. 


RIKER: Aeons. Have you any idea how far we'll advance? 


Q: Perhaps in a future that you cannot yet conceive, even beyond us. So you see, we must know more about this human condition. That's why we've selected you, Riker, to become part of the Q, so that you can bring to us this human need and hunger, that we may understand it. 


RIKER: I suppose you mean that as a compliment, Q. Or maybe it's my limited mind. But to become a part of you? I don't even like you. 


Q: You're going to miss me!

Q states humans may surpass the Q in time.

[Phoenix cockpit]
LAFORGE: Plasma injectors are on-line. Everything's looking good. I think we're ready.
RIKER: They should be out there right now. We better break the warp barrier in the next five minutes if we're going to get their attention.
LAFORGE: Main cells are charged and ready.
RIKER: Let's do it.
COCHRANE: Engage.
LAFORGE: Warp field is looking good. Structural integrity is holding.
RIKER: Speed, twenty thousand kilometres per second.
COCHRANE: Sweet Jesus!
(Cochrane has spotted the Enterprise in orbit)
RIKER: Relax, Doctor. I'm sure they're just here to give us a send-off.
[Enterprise-E engineering]
(Picard is on the Borg bio-bed)
DATA: I am bringing the external sensors on-line.
(the Phoenix appears on the viewscreen)
[Phoenix cockpit]
RIKER: Thirty seconds to warp threshold. ...Approaching light-speed.
COCHRANE: We're at critical velocity.

The Warp threshold appears to be about 300,000 kilometers a second or about the speed of a photon traveling through a vacuum.

They have about 5 minutes or 300 seconds to execrate to the warp threshold.

Their starting velocity is 20,000.

300,000-20,000= 280,000

280,000/300= 933.333333

The slowest acceleration the Phoenix can have while still making its deadline is an increase of 933.333333 kilometers a second.

The Phoenix was a ship that was built in a cave from scraps scrounged from the surround area on a post apocalyptic Earth. Think about that.

[User1401]

Erm...ok? Everything but that last quote happens centuries after the time period for this thread, and that last one happens with the warp field active. I'm not sure what the point of...any of that...is. Are you sure you have the right thread?

[Mike DiCenso]

Lucky, I have to agree with Stargazer on this one. Can you explain why this information is relevant to the topic at hand? If not, I'm going to split it off and make it it's own thread on the main Trek/Wars forum.
-Mike

[Lucky]

Erm...ok? Everything but that last quote happens centuries after the time period for this thread,

When the quotes are from does not matter unless you are talking about someone like Wesley Crusher. From Cochrane to Picard humans in star Trek don't seem to gain any new special abilities. The point is, that humans in Star Trek are super human reality warpers by real world standards.

and that last one happens with the warp field active.

Warp fields are always on, what does it matter? The point is that a barely working prototype ship made from what ever the builders could find in the area has an acceleration of something like 95,139 g. Later ships reach the warp threshold in far less then 5 minutes.

You need to show that the Reapers can hope to deal with weapons and targets that have accelerations like that. Remember, Trek powers have real time FTL sensors, and they fight while traveling faster then light..

I'm not sure what the point of...any of that...is. Are you sure you have the right thread?

Your clumsy attempt to make things fair for the Reapers., and still fails to reach its intended result.

The Reaper's scouts never return do to random space anomalies. The Reapers realize the Galaxy is too dangerous, and leave if they are smart.

If the Reapers do attack they get wiped out by the powers that you haven't removed, and have been far more powerful then The United Federation of Planets.

[Mr. Oragahn]

JELLICO: I began my career as a shuttle pilot, on the Jovian run. Jupiter to Saturn and back once a day, every day.

LAFORGE: Is that right? I was on that run myself for a while. 

JELLICO: Then you must've done Titan's Turn. 

LAFORGE: Oh, yeah. You set a course directly for Titan, hold it until you're just brushing the atmosphere, throw the helm hard over and whip around the moon at point seven c. 

JELLICO: And pray like hell nobody saw you. 

LAFORGE: You know, this trip into the nebula's going to need someone who can do Titan's Turn in their sleep. These mines need to be laid within two kilometres of the Cardassian ships. But the particle flux from the nebula will blind all the sensors except for this proximity detector. You're going to need one heck of a pilot to pull that off.

Titan's Turn is performed manually. If the pilot used an automated system then it would not be a matter of piloting skill.

.7c is about 210,000 kilometers per second
1/210,000= 4.7619048E-06= .0000047619048
1 km every .0000047619048 seconds

Titan's upper atmosphere is about 975 kilometers from the surface.
975*.0000047619048= 0.00464285718

The pilot of the shuttle will have about 0.00464285718 seconds before hitting Titan.

Normal human reaction times is about .3 to .215 seconds.
http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/rea ... /stats.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzhs1Z8Rwnk

SPOCK: Decoding memory banks. I'll try to interpolate. The Valiant had encountered a magnetic space storm and was being swept in this direction. 


KIRK: The old impulse engines weren't strong enough. 


SPOCK: Swept past this point, about a half light year out of the galaxy, they were thrown clear, turned, and headed back into the galaxy here. I'm not getting it all. The tapes are pretty badly burned. Sounds like the ship had encountered some unknown force. Now, orders, counter orders, repeated urgent requests for information from the ship's computer records for anything concerning ESP in human beings. 


KIRK: Extrasensory perception. Doctor Dehner, how are you on ESP? 


DEHNER: In tests I've taken, my ESP rated rather high. 


KIRK: I'm asking what you know about ESP. 


DEHNER: It is a fact that some people can sense future happenings, read the backs of playing cards and so on, but the esper capacity is always quite limited. 


SPOCK: Severe damage. Seven crewmen dead. No, make that six. One crewman seemed to have recovered. That's when they became interested in extrasensory perception. More than interested, almost frantic about it. No, this must be garbled. I get something about destruct. I must have read it wrong. It sounded like the captain giving an order to destroy his own ship. 


KIRK: Comments? 


PIPER: The only fact we have for sure is that the S.S. Valiant was destroyed. 


KIRK: That's probably the best argument to continue the probe. Other vessels will be heading out here someday and they'll have to know what they'll be facing. We're leaving the galaxy, Mister Mitchell. Ahead, warp factor one. 


SPOCK: Force field of some kind.

Humans have latent psionic potential

RAVELLER: Captain, I seek only transportation in order to see and experience your reality. I am no a threat to you, your ship or your crew. 


WESLEY: He isn't, Captain. I know he isn't. 


PICARD: Our reality? And in order to satisfy this curiosity, you have brought my ship and my crew into great risk. 


TRAVELLER: I have made some mistakes. 


PICARD: Some mistakes? What mistakes could possibly explain these incredible explosions of velocity? 


TRAVELLER: I don't know if I can put this in terms you'll understand. 


PICARD: I believe there may be a warp speed that can get us beyond Galaxy M Thirty Three, but there is no velocity of any magnitude that can possibly bring us wherever this is. Is it true what our navigation sensors are telling us? Are we millions of light years away from where we were? 


TRAVELLER: Well, yes. 


PICARD: Well, what got us here? 


TRAVELLER: Thought. 


PICARD: Thought? 


TRAVELLER: You do understand, don't you that thought is the basis of all reality? The energy of thought, to put it in your terms, is very powerful. 


KOSINSKI: That's not an explanation. 


TRAVELLER: I have the ability to act like a lens which focuses thought. 


KOSINSKI: That's just so much nonsense. You're asking us to believe in magic. 


TRAVELLER: Well yes, this could seem like magic to you. 


PICARD: No. No, it actually makes sense to me. Only the power of thought could explain what has been happening. Especially out here. 


TRAVELLER: Thought is the essence of where you are now. You do understand the danger, don't you? 


PICARD: Chaos. What we think is what happens. 


TRAVELLER: It pains me I was so careless, Captain. My intent was only to observe, not to cause this. You should not be here until your far, far distant future. Certainly not until you have learned control. 


RIKER: You are from a different time, aren't you? 


TRAVELLER: Well, no, not exactly from another time. Although as you understand the concept, yes, perhaps that term fits as well as any. 


RIKER: And you have this ability to travel. 


TRAVELLER: Yes. 


RIKER: And others of your kind have the same ability? 


TRAVELLER: Yes. 


RIKER: Then why, in all of our history, is there no record of you or someone like you ever having visited us? 


TRAVELLER: What wonderful arrogance. There is no record because we have not visited you before. 


RIKER: Why not? 


TRAVELLER: Well, up until now, if you'll forgive this, you've been uninteresting. It's only now that your life form merits serious attention. I'm sorry. 


PICARD: What's happening? 


CRUSHER: He's unconscious again. 


PICARD: Revive him. 


CRUSHER: Whatever you need from him, you'd better get it soon. 


RIKER: If I may suggest, sir, that first leap out of our galaxy was, as he said, a mistake. 


PICARD: Unless he was distracted by something. 


RIKER: And it weakened him, in some way leading to the incredible leap out here. 


KOSINSKI: Theory! 


PICARD: Do you have any facts that fit this? Can you get us back? 


KOSINSKI: Wait, Captain, not so fast. We have an opportunity here for scientific discovery. 


PICARD: And we report our observations how? To whom? (to the Traveller) Can you get us back? 


TRAVELLER: I will try. 


PICARD: Number One, take him down to main Engineering. I'll be on the Bridge. 


WESLEY: No! He's very weak.


TRAVELLER: The Captain's right. We must hurry. But first, I request a moment with the Captain. Alone. 


(Riker, Kosinski, Crusher and Wesley leave) 


PICARD: Strange how he seems to care for you. 


TRAVELLER: He will forget me in time, which is as it should be. It's Wesley I wanted to speak to you about. 


PICARD: The boy? 


TRAVELLER: It's best you do not repeat this to the others, especially not to the mother. Whatever may happen, it is imperative that it proceed naturally. 


PICARD: I must get my ship back. Do we have time for this? 


TRAVELLER: Oh, yes. He and a few like him are why I travel. You have it in your power to encourage him without interfering. 


PICARD: Encourage him in what? 


TRAVELLER: How shall I explain? Are you familiar with the intricacies of what is called here music? 


PICARD: Somewhat. 


TRAVELLER: Such musical genius I saw in one of your ship's libraries. One called Mozart, who as a small child wrote astonishing symphonies. A genius who made music not only to be heard, but seen and felt beyond the understanding, the ability of others. Wesley is such a person. Not with music, but with the equally lovely intricacies of time, energy, propulsion. and the instruments of this vessel which allow all that to be played. You're right, I must hurry now. But you're right in something else. He is just a boy for now. He should be encouraged, but told none of this.

Captain's log, stardate 44162.8. At the direction of the Traveller, the Enterprise is returning to Starbase one three three and the precise position where the subspace bubble was formed.


[Engineering]


TRAVELLER: Our goal will be to create a stable gateway between our reality and your mother's reality. 


WESLEY: We've tried. We can't stabilise the link. 


TRAVELLER: Of course not. The equations are only the first step. We will be going beyond mathematics. 


WESLEY: Just tell me what I have to do. 


TRAVELLER: Begin by letting go of your guilt, Wesley. 


WESLEY: It's my fault. I shouldn't have tried 


TRAVELLER: Focus on the present. You will have to be here completely to help her back. You must open yourself to time and space and the intricate threads that bind them. Begin entering your warp field equations. Now close your eyes. See past the numbers. Trust yourself. 


WESLEY: I can't. I can't do it. 


TRAVELLER: When the time comes, you will, Wesley. You will.

WORF: I cannot allow you to hold these men as prisoners. 


WAKASA: You have no authority here. 


(the fight starts with a Cardassian and Indian struggling for a weapon, which keeps firing into the air. Then others join in. Wesley runs forward) 


WESLEY: No! 


(and everything stops, including the Cardassian falling after being shot in the chest. Lakanta walks over to Wesley, the only two still moving) 


WESLEY: What happened? Did you do this? 


LAKANTA: I didn't do anything. You did. 


WESLEY: I did? 


LAKANTA: You pulled yourself out of their time. You took the first step, Wesley. 


WESLEY: My first step to where? 


LAKANTA: To another plane of existence, another way of thinking. 


WESLEY: I don't understand. 


LAKANTA: You've found a new beginning for yourself. The first step on a journey that few humans will ever take. 


WESLEY: Who are you? (Lakanta transforms) The Traveller. 


TRAVELLER: I've been waiting a long time for this moment, Wesley. 


WESLEY: So all those things I saw in the Habak, my father, and the things he said to me, that was your doing? 


TRAVELLER: I merely opened the door for you. What you experienced came from your own mind, your own spirit if you wish. I hoped that you would open your mind to new possibilities, and you did. You pulled yourself out of time, don't you see? You've evolved to a new level you're ready to explore places where thought and energy combine in ways you can't even imagine. And I will be your guide, if you would like. 


WESLEY: What about them? I can't just leave them like this. 


TRAVELLER: They must find their own destinies, Wesley. It's not our place to interfere. 


WESLEY: But 


TRAVELLER: Have faith in their abilities to solve their problems on their own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QKSjBiG2c

Humans can manipulate time and space with their minds. Picard and Riker slow time in order to dodge a phaser blast in Conspiracy, and Wesley out right stops time from his perspective.

Q: Yes, the human compulsion. And unfortunately for us, it is a power which will grow stronger century after century, aeon after aeon. 


RIKER: Aeons. Have you any idea how far we'll advance? 


Q: Perhaps in a future that you cannot yet conceive, even beyond us. So you see, we must know more about this human condition. That's why we've selected you, Riker, to become part of the Q, so that you can bring to us this human need and hunger, that we may understand it. 


RIKER: I suppose you mean that as a compliment, Q. Or maybe it's my limited mind. But to become a part of you? I don't even like you. 


Q: You're going to miss me!

Q states humans may surpass the Q in time.

[Phoenix cockpit]
LAFORGE: Plasma injectors are on-line. Everything's looking good. I think we're ready.
RIKER: They should be out there right now. We better break the warp barrier in the next five minutes if we're going to get their attention.
LAFORGE: Main cells are charged and ready.
RIKER: Let's do it.
COCHRANE: Engage.
LAFORGE: Warp field is looking good. Structural integrity is holding.
RIKER: Speed, twenty thousand kilometres per second.
COCHRANE: Sweet Jesus!
(Cochrane has spotted the Enterprise in orbit)
RIKER: Relax, Doctor. I'm sure they're just here to give us a send-off.
[Enterprise-E engineering]
(Picard is on the Borg bio-bed)
DATA: I am bringing the external sensors on-line.
(the Phoenix appears on the viewscreen)
[Phoenix cockpit]
RIKER: Thirty seconds to warp threshold. ...Approaching light-speed.
COCHRANE: We're at critical velocity.

The Warp threshold appears to be about 300,000 kilometers a second or about the speed of a photon traveling through a vacuum.

They have about 5 minutes or 300 seconds to execrate to the warp threshold.

Their starting velocity is 20,000.

300,000-20,000= 280,000

280,000/300= 933.333333

The slowest acceleration the Phoenix can have while still making its deadline is an increase of 933.333333 kilometers a second.

The Phoenix was a ship that was built in a cave from scraps scrounged from the surround area on a post apocalyptic Earth. Think about that.

Is that a joke ?

Oh, about the Titan run, it's totally possible that the speed mentioned is once they press the gas pedal.

[Lucky]

JELLICO: I began my career as a shuttle pilot, on the Jovian run. Jupiter to Saturn and back once a day, every day.

LAFORGE: Is that right? I was on that run myself for a while. 

JELLICO: Then you must've done Titan's Turn. 

LAFORGE: Oh, yeah. You set a course directly for Titan, hold it until you're just brushing the atmosphere, throw the helm hard over and whip around the moon at point seven c. 

JELLICO: And pray like hell nobody saw you. 

LAFORGE: You know, this trip into the nebula's going to need someone who can do Titan's Turn in their sleep. These mines need to be laid within two kilometres of the Cardassian ships. But the particle flux from the nebula will blind all the sensors except for this proximity detector. You're going to need one heck of a pilot to pull that off.

Titan's Turn is performed manually. If the pilot used an automated system then it would not be a matter of piloting skill.
.7c is about 210,000 kilometers per second
1/210,000= 4.7619048E-06= .0000047619048
1 km every .0000047619048 seconds

Titan's upper atmosphere is about 975 kilometers from the surface.
975*.0000047619048= 0.00464285718

The pilot of the shuttle will have about 0.00464285718 seconds before hitting Titan.

Normal human reaction times is about .3 to .215 seconds.
http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/rea ... /stats.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzhs1Z8Rwnk

SPOCK: Decoding memory banks. I'll try to interpolate. The Valiant had encountered a magnetic space storm and was being swept in this direction. 


KIRK: The old impulse engines weren't strong enough. 


SPOCK: Swept past this point, about a half light year out of the galaxy, they were thrown clear, turned, and headed back into the galaxy here. I'm not getting it all. The tapes are pretty badly burned. Sounds like the ship had encountered some unknown force. Now, orders, counter orders, repeated urgent requests for information from the ship's computer records for anything concerning ESP in human beings. 


KIRK: Extrasensory perception. Doctor Dehner, how are you on ESP? 

DEHNER: In tests I've taken, my ESP rated rather high. 


KIRK: I'm asking what you know about ESP. 


DEHNER: It is a fact that some people can sense future happenings, read the backs of playing cards and so on, but the esper capacity is always quite limited. 


SPOCK: Severe damage. Seven crewmen dead. No, make that six. One crewman seemed to have recovered. That's when they became interested in extrasensory perception. More than interested, almost frantic about it. No, this must be garbled. I get something about destruct. I must have read it wrong. It sounded like the captain giving an order to destroy his own ship. 


KIRK: Comments? 

PIPER: The only fact we have for sure is that the S.S. Valiant was destroyed. 


KIRK: That's probably the best argument to continue the probe. Other vessels will be heading out here someday and they'll have to know what they'll be facing. We're leaving the galaxy, Mister Mitchell. Ahead, warp factor one. 


SPOCK: Force field of some kind.

Humans have latent psionic potential

RAVELLER: Captain, I seek only transportation in order to see and experience your reality. I am no a threat to you, your ship or your crew. 


WESLEY: He isn't, Captain. I know he isn't. 

PICARD: Our reality? And in order to satisfy this curiosity, you have brought my ship and my crew into great risk. 


TRAVELLER: I have made some mistakes. 


PICARD: Some mistakes? What mistakes could possibly explain these incredible explosions of velocity? 


TRAVELLER: I don't know if I can put this in terms you'll understand. 


PICARD: I believe there may be a warp speed that can get us beyond Galaxy M Thirty Three, but there is no velocity of any magnitude that can possibly bring us wherever this is. Is it true what our navigation sensors are telling us? Are we millions of light years away from where we were? 

TRAVELLER: Well, yes. 


PICARD: Well, what got us here? 


TRAVELLER: Thought. 


PICARD: Thought? 


TRAVELLER: You do understand, don't you that thought is the basis of all reality? The energy of thought, to put it in your terms, is very powerful. 


KOSINSKI: That's not an explanation. 

TRAVELLER: I have the ability to act like a lens which focuses thought. 


KOSINSKI: That's just so much nonsense. You're asking us to believe in magic. 


TRAVELLER: Well yes, this could seem like magic to you. 


PICARD: No. No, it actually makes sense to me. Only the power of thought could explain what has been happening. Especially out here. 


TRAVELLER: Thought is the essence of where you are now. You do understand the danger, don't you? 


PICARD: Chaos. What we think is what happens. 

TRAVELLER: It pains me I was so careless, Captain. My intent was only to observe, not to cause this. You should not be here until your far, far distant future. Certainly not until you have learned control. 


RIKER: You are from a different time, aren't you? 


TRAVELLER: Well, no, not exactly from another time. Although as you understand the concept, yes, perhaps that term fits as well as any. 


RIKER: And you have this ability to travel. 


TRAVELLER: Yes. 


RIKER: And others of your kind have the same ability? 

TRAVELLER: Yes. 


RIKER: Then why, in all of our history, is there no record of you or someone like you ever having visited us? 


TRAVELLER: What wonderful arrogance. There is no record because we have not visited you before. 


RIKER: Why not? 


TRAVELLER: Well, up until now, if you'll forgive this, you've been uninteresting. It's only now that your life form merits serious attention. I'm sorry. 

PICARD: What's happening? 


CRUSHER: He's unconscious again. 


PICARD: Revive him. 


CRUSHER: Whatever you need from him, you'd better get it soon. 


RIKER: If I may suggest, sir, that first leap out of our galaxy was, as he said, a mistake. 


PICARD: Unless he was distracted by something. 

RIKER: And it weakened him, in some way leading to the incredible leap out here. 


KOSINSKI: Theory! 


PICARD: Do you have any facts that fit this? Can you get us back? 


KOSINSKI: Wait, Captain, not so fast. We have an opportunity here for scientific discovery. 


PICARD: And we report our observations how? To whom? (to the Traveller) Can you get us back? 


TRAVELLER: I will try. 

PICARD: Number One, take him down to main Engineering. I'll be on the Bridge. 


WESLEY: No! He's very weak.


TRAVELLER: The Captain's right. We must hurry. But first, I request a moment with the Captain. Alone. 


(Riker, Kosinski, Crusher and Wesley leave) 


PICARD: Strange how he seems to care for you. 


TRAVELLER: He will forget me in time, which is as it should be. It's Wesley I wanted to speak to you about. 

PICARD: The boy? 


TRAVELLER: It's best you do not repeat this to the others, especially not to the mother. Whatever may happen, it is imperative that it proceed naturally. 


PICARD: I must get my ship back. Do we have time for this? 


TRAVELLER: Oh, yes. He and a few like him are why I travel. You have it in your power to encourage him without interfering. 


PICARD: Encourage him in what? 

TRAVELLER: How shall I explain? Are you familiar with the intricacies of what is called here music? 


PICARD: Somewhat. 


TRAVELLER: Such musical genius I saw in one of your ship's libraries. One called Mozart, who as a small child wrote astonishing symphonies. A genius who made music not only to be heard, but seen and felt beyond the understanding, the ability of others. Wesley is such a person. Not with music, but with the equally lovely intricacies of time, energy, propulsion. and the instruments of this vessel which allow all that to be played. You're right, I must hurry now. But you're right in something else. He is just a boy for now. He should be encouraged, but told none of this.

Captain's log, stardate 44162.8. At the direction of the Traveller, the Enterprise is returning to Starbase one three three and the precise position where the subspace bubble was formed.


[Engineering]


TRAVELLER: Our goal will be to create a stable gateway between our reality and your mother's reality. 


WESLEY: We've tried. We can't stabilise the link.

TRAVELLER: Of course not. The equations are only the first step. We will be going beyond mathematics. 


WESLEY: Just tell me what I have to do. 


TRAVELLER: Begin by letting go of your guilt, Wesley. 


WESLEY: It's my fault. I shouldn't have tried 

TRAVELLER: Focus on the present. You will have to be here completely to help her back. You must open yourself to time and space and the intricate threads that bind them. Begin entering your warp field equations. Now close your eyes. See past the numbers. Trust yourself. 


WESLEY: I can't. I can't do it. 


TRAVELLER: When the time comes, you will, Wesley. You will.

WORF: I cannot allow you to hold these men as prisoners. 


WAKASA: You have no authority here. 

(the fight starts with a Cardassian and Indian struggling for a weapon, which keeps firing into the air. Then others join in. Wesley runs forward) 


WESLEY: No! 


(and everything stops, including the Cardassian falling after being shot in the chest. Lakanta walks over to Wesley, the only two still moving) 


WESLEY: What happened? Did you do this? 


LAKANTA: I didn't do anything. You did. 


WESLEY: I did? 

LAKANTA: You pulled yourself out of their time. You took the first step, Wesley. 


WESLEY: My first step to where? 


LAKANTA: To another plane of existence, another way of thinking. 


WESLEY: I don't understand. 


LAKANTA: You've found a new beginning for yourself. The first step on a journey that few humans will ever take. 


WESLEY: Who are you? (Lakanta transforms) The Traveller. 

TRAVELLER: I've been waiting a long time for this moment, Wesley. 


WESLEY: So all those things I saw in the Habak, my father, and the things he said to me, that was your doing? 


TRAVELLER: I merely opened the door for you. What you experienced came from your own mind, your own spirit if you wish. I hoped that you would open your mind to new possibilities, and you did. You pulled yourself out of time, don't you see? You've evolved to a new level you're ready to explore places where thought and energy combine in ways you can't even imagine. And I will be your guide, if you would like. 


WESLEY: What about them? I can't just leave them like this. 

TRAVELLER: They must find their own destinies, Wesley. It's not our place to interfere. 


WESLEY: But 


TRAVELLER: Have faith in their abilities to solve their problems on their own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QKSjBiG2c

Humans can manipulate time and space with their minds. Picard and Riker slow time in order to dodge a phaser blast in Conspiracy, and Wesley out right stops time from his perspective.

Q: Yes, the human compulsion. And unfortunately for us, it is a power which will grow stronger century after century, aeon after aeon. 


RIKER: Aeons. Have you any idea how far we'll advance? 


Q: Perhaps in a future that you cannot yet conceive, even beyond us. So you see, we must know more about this human condition. That's why we've selected you, Riker, to become part of the Q, so that you can bring to us this human need and hunger, that we may understand it. 


RIKER: I suppose you mean that as a compliment, Q. Or maybe it's my limited mind. But to become a part of you? I don't even like you. 

Q: You're going to miss me!

Q states humans may surpass the Q in time.

[Phoenix cockpit]
LAFORGE: Plasma injectors are on-line. Everything's looking good. I think we're ready.
RIKER: They should be out there right now. We better break the warp barrier in the next five minutes if we're going to get their attention.
LAFORGE: Main cells are charged and ready.
RIKER: Let's do it.
COCHRANE: Engage.
LAFORGE: Warp field is looking good. Structural integrity is holding.
RIKER: Speed, twenty thousand kilometres per second.
COCHRANE: Sweet Jesus!
(Cochrane has spotted the Enterprise in orbit)
RIKER: Relax, Doctor. I'm sure they're just here to give us a send-off.
[Enterprise-E engineering](Picard is on the Borg bio-bed)
DATA: I am bringing the external sensors on-line.
(the Phoenix appears on the viewscreen)
[Phoenix cockpit]
RIKER: Thirty seconds to warp threshold. ...Approaching light-speed.
COCHRANE: We're at critical velocity.

The Warp threshold appears to be about 300,000 kilometers a second or about the speed of a photon traveling through a vacuum.

They have about 5 minutes or 300 seconds to execrate to the warp threshold.

Their starting velocity is 20,000.

300,000-20,000= 280,000

280,000/300= 933.333333
The slowest acceleration the Phoenix can have while still making its deadline is an increase of 933.333333 kilometers a second.

The Phoenix was a ship that was built in a cave from scraps scrounged from the surround area on a post apocalyptic Earth. Think about that.

Is that a joke ?

Which part?

Oh, about the Titan run, it's totally possible that the speed mentioned is once they press the gas pedal.

THe dialog seems to show the plot is traveling at .7 c during Titan's turn. That would mean the craft would be traveling at speeds near .7 c when approaching Titan.

[User1401]

When the quotes are from does not matter unless you are talking about someone like Wesley Crusher. From Cochrane to Picard humans in star Trek don't seem to gain any new special abilities. The point is, that humans in Star Trek are super human reality warpers by real world standards.

Then we should totally travel back to the early-mid 1800s and ask why their steam ships are so slow. Totally.

And I'm with Oragahn on the "reality warper" part; is this a joke? No, wait. I don't even have to ask. It's pretty funny.

Warp fields are always on, what does it matter? The point is that a barely working prototype ship made from what ever the builders could find in the area has an acceleration of something like 95,139 g. Later ships reach the warp threshold in far less then 5 minutes.

The Phoenix was actively attempting to reach warp speed. This is how long it took under its prototype warp drive to hit warp 1; it's not representative of the impulse accelerations for 22nd century ships. Or can I count every random time a Mass Effect ship jumps to FTL as an example of their accelerations?

You need to show that the Reapers can hope to deal with weapons and targets that have accelerations like that. Remember, Trek powers have real time FTL sensors, and they fight while traveling faster then light..

22nd century ships never engaged STL targets while at warp, and the Reapers are capable of much higher FTL velocities than 22nd century Alpha Quadrant powers (~10,000c)

Your clumsy attempt to make things fair for the Reapers., and still fails to reach its intended result.

The Reaper's scouts never return do to random space anomalies. The Reapers realize the Galaxy is too dangerous, and leave if they are smart.

If the Reapers do attack they get wiped out by the powers that you haven't removed, and have been far more powerful then The United Federation of Planets.

This is a cop-out and you know it.

[Lucky]

Then we should totally travel back to the early-mid 1800s and ask why their steam ships are so slow. Totally.

And I'm with Oragahn on the "reality warper" part; is this a joke? No, wait. I don't even have to ask. It's pretty funny.

All canon, and all proven with evidence. I normally don't bother to drag it out though. The reality warping psi powers are not tech based, and proven through dialog, plot, and action. Humans in Star Trek are akin to 40K orcs.^_^

The Phoenix was actively attempting to reach warp speed. This is how long it took under its prototype warp drive to hit warp 1; it's not representative of the impulse accelerations for 22nd century ships. Or can I count every random time a Mass Effect ship jumps to FTL as an example of their accelerations?

I see a lot of ignorance and claims on your part, but no evidence.

The quote provided stated they needed to reach about 300,000 kilometers a second in order to simply reach the warp barrier so that they could go to warp. That means every time a ship goes to warp they first accelerate to about 300,000 kilometers a second first.

The warp drive being powered, and generating a warp field is normal for all Star Trek ships. They normally have their warp drives like that even when sitting in orbit. They almost never turn the things off.

UHURA: Captain, message from the Klingon ship. They're ordering us to stand by for boarding or be destroyed. 


SPOCK: They demand an immediate reply. 


KIRK: They're trying to force a fight. Scotty, what's our energy status? 


SCOTT: Ninety three percent of impulse power, sir. 


SPOCK: We can still manoeuvre. 


SCOTT [OC]: Manoeuvre? Aye. We can wallow like a garbage scow against a warp-driven starship.

It's rather common to use warp drives to enhance Impulse drives.

Heck, there is evidence that Impulse can be used as an FTL drive since it is used repeatedly to travel between stars, and is a plot point in several episodes. Even torpedos are FTL capable.

22nd century ships never engaged STL targets while at warp, and the Reapers are capable of much higher FTL velocities than 22nd century Alpha Quadrant powers (~10,000c)

I see claims, but no evidence.


If they can fire and maneuver while traveling at faster then light they can hit the beached whales that the reapers seemingly are. If you want to claim they can't warp strafe then you need to prove it.

Humans, vulcans, Klingons, and Ronulans are not the biggest or baddest races in their neck of the woods even with removing the mildly(by Star Trek standards) powerful psychic races like you did, you still have groups like the First Federation who use bleeping Death Star sized ships as standard.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Fesarius

People think nothing of a ship tooling around a heavily populated solar system at .7c, horribly destructive spacial anomalies appear at random, other anomalies are basically undetectable until after you are all but doomed by them, the standard weapons loads are faster then light... Heck, even slow as hell warp two is clocked at over 100,000c.

This is a cop-out and you know it.

Sorry, but running head long into natural hazards is a problem the UFP has in charted space, and that ignores the hazards that appear and disappear at random. In Tomorrow is Yesterday the Enterprise crashed into a black star, and in "One small step" there was an anomaly that was believed to randomly appear and rip ships apart, and in "Night Terrors" the Enterprise-D flew into an anomaly. The UFP has seemingly better sensor from what I know of Mass Effect, knows what it is looking for, and has repeatedly dealt with these things, but they are still a problem with them about once a season at least. The Reapers are going to have trouble just safely getting from point A to point B.

Even so your OP still left in weak entities like Apollo who will see nothing wrong with ripping the Reapers a new one even though they would need to likely do it one Reaper at a time.

The Reapers are big, slow, and fragile targets, and nothing else by trek standards from what I've seen of Mass Effect, and in this scenario destined to lose. We know the Reapers lose because the big boys on the Trek side aren't taking action. To make matters worse for the Reapers, they have no source of element zero. Without element zero they can't do things like make more Reapers, collectors ,or even repair their ships.

I want evidence that Reaper weapons will have any effect on Trek defenses.

[User1401]

All canon, and all proven with evidence. I normally don't bother to drag it out though. The reality warping psi powers are not tech based, and proven through dialog, plot, and action. Humans in Star Trek are akin to 40K orcs.^_^

I can't decide whether this is funny or sad. But I'll humor you. Humans have latent psionic powers, sure. But at best they can't use it for anything more than, as Dehner says, a vague sense of future happenings or reading the backs of playing cards. Even that level of ESP seems exceedingly rare as we never see it used. Anything beyond that requires some sort of outside catalyst, like the Great Barrier or the Traveler. It's certainly nothing of the utility of biotics in Mass Effect, the Force in Star Wars, or telepaths in Babylon 5.

I see a lot of ignorance and claims on your part, but no evidence.

The quote provided stated they needed to reach about 300,000 kilometers a second in order to simply reach the warp barrier so that they could go to warp. That means every time a ship goes to warp they first accelerate to about 300,000 kilometers a second first.

The warp drive being powered, and generating a warp field is normal for all Star Trek ships. They normally have their warp drives like that even when sitting in orbit. They almost never turn the things off.

The evidence was the very quote you posted. It's clear they are actively approaching light speed; why would they be accelerating at all if not so?

It's rather common to use warp drives to enhance Impulse drives.

First of all, that's a 23rd century example. Second of all, that example is an odd case of the Klingon ship actually attacking while at warp, not simply enhancing impulse with the warp drive.

"SULU [OC]: Bridge to Captain.
KIRK: Captain here.
SULU [OC]: Captain, the Klingon ship has changed course. It is heading toward us at warp speed.
KIRK: I'm on my way. Battle stations."

[Bridge]

KIRK: Phasers stand by.
SULU: Phasers ready, sir.
SPOCK: Their speed is better than warp six, Captain."

"SPOCK: He's passed us. All shields held.
KIRK: Mister Sulu, bring her to one four three mark two. Keep our forward shields to him.
SULU: Here he comes again, sir.
KIRK: Stay with the controls. Keep our forward shields to him.
SPOCK: Better than warp seven. "

Heck, there is evidence that Impulse can be used as an FTL drive since it is used repeatedly to travel between stars, and is a plot point in several episodes. Even torpedos are FTL capable.

Evidence? (And 22nd century evidence, at that)

I see claims, but no evidence.

If they can fire and maneuver while traveling at faster then light they can hit the beached whales that the reapers seemingly are. If you want to claim they can't warp strafe then you need to prove it.

Evidence that the Reapers can travel at 10,800c? Sure.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/ ... pabilities

"The Reapers' thrusters and FTL drives appear to propel them at more than twice the speed of Citadel ships. Estimates of their location in dark space suggest they can travel nearly 30 light-years in a 24-hour period."

As for evidence that 22nd century Trek ships can engage STL targets while at FTL, the burden of proof is on you for that.

Humans, vulcans, Klingons, and Ronulans are not the biggest or baddest races in their neck of the woods even with removing the mildly(by Star Trek standards) powerful psychic races like you did, you still have groups like the First Federation who use bleeping Death Star sized ships as standard.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Fesarius

The only information we have about the First Federation applies to the 23rd century onwards. At the very least, the races seen in "Enterprise" will have to deal with the Reapers before the Reapers have to worry about the First Federation.

People think nothing of a ship tooling around a heavily populated solar system at .7c, horribly destructive spacial anomalies appear at random, other anomalies are basically undetectable until after you are all but doomed by them, the standard weapons loads are faster then light... Heck, even slow as hell warp two is clocked at over 100,000c.

That last detail is ridiculous. Star Trek Voyager necessitates that the maximum sustainable speed for a 24th century ship be no more than 2000c. It's established at the beginning that it will take them 75 years to cross 70,000 lightyears. Even if we assume that Voyager spends only 50% of its time at its maximum sustainable speed heading back to Federation space, that's 1866c. If they were capable of 100,000c they could cross 70,000 light years and get back to Federation space in less than a year.

And it's clear that when fired at STL torpedoes remain at STL, taking a couple seconds to cross distances of a few kilometers (evidence: about every battle visual in Star Trek...ever...as a random example, have the battle from First Contact!). Torpedoes can maintain FTL speeds if launched at FTL but don't seem able to accelerate to such speeds.

Sorry, but running head long into natural hazards is a problem the UFP has in charted space, and that ignores the hazards that appear and disappear at random. In Tomorrow is Yesterday the Enterprise crashed into a black star, and in "One small step" there was an anomaly that was believed to randomly appear and rip ships apart, and in "Night Terrors" the Enterprise-D flew into an anomaly. The UFP has seemingly better sensor from what I know of Mass Effect, knows what it is looking for, and has repeatedly dealt with these things, but they are still a problem with them about once a season at least. The Reapers are going to have trouble just safely getting from point A to point B.

Even so your OP still left in weak entities like Apollo who will see nothing wrong with ripping the Reapers a new one even though they would need to likely do it one Reaper at a time.

And yet somehow a little ship keeps getting by these phenomena day after day. The Enterprise routinely looks for such random phenomena and lifeforms; when they're not looking, these issues hardly ever pop up, especially when factions are focused on waging war against each other. Is the Star Trek galaxy quite a bit weirder than the Mass Effect galaxy? Sure. Might the Reapers lose a few scouts exploring the galaxy? Yes. But it's not going to protect the humans, Andorians, Vulcans, Klingons, etc. from hundreds of ships appearing in their systems before their fleets can respond, or from the subtle mind control devices that the Reapers will slip to them along with technology trades.

The Reapers are big, slow, and fragile targets, and nothing else by trek standards from what I've seen of Mass Effect, and in this scenario destined to lose. We know the Reapers lose because the big boys on the Trek side aren't taking action. To make matters worse for the Reapers, they have no source of element zero. Without element zero they can't do things like make more Reapers, collectors ,or even repair their ships.

Actually...

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/ ... pabilities

"Reaper power sources seem to violate known physical laws. Reapers usually destroy fuel infrastructure rather than attempting to capture it intact, indicating that Reapers do not require organic species' energy supplies. Consequently, the Reapers attack without regard for maintaining supply lines behind them, except to move husks from one planet to another."

I want evidence that Reaper weapons will have any effect on Trek defenses.

If you can ask that, then I want evidence that Trek weapons will have any effect on Reaper defenses. Anyways:

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/ ... pabilities

"The main gun on a Reaper capital ship dwarfs that of the Alliance's Everest-class dreadnoughts. No dreadnought has yet survived a direct hit from the weapon. Estimates put its destructive power anywhere from 132 to 454 kilotons of TNT."

The NX-01's phase cannons are rated at 500 gigajoules. 132 kilotons is equal to 552,288 gigajoules. At a bare minimum, just going by the numbers, Reaper main cannons are three orders of magnitude above phase cannons. If Trek races can hurt each other with weapons like that, the Reapers will most certainly be able to hurt them as well, and then some.

[Khas]

500 GJ went into the phase cannons, and they leveled a mountain the size of Mount McKinley.

Also, photonic torpedoes are said to be able to, at maximum yield, put a three kilometer wide crater in an asteroid.

Earth also has the nasty surprise that is the Verteron Array. Well, it's on Mars, actually, but that's really only a technicality. The Verteron Array has a range of light-minutes, as it managed to hit targets on both Luna and Earth within seconds of being fired from Mars.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Verteron_array

[Mike DiCenso]

That last detail is ridiculous. Star Trek Voyager necessitates that the maximum sustainable speed for a 24th century ship be no more than 2000c. It's established at the beginning that it will take them 75 years to cross 70,000 lightyears. Even if we assume that Voyager spends only 50% of its time at its maximum sustainable speed heading back to Federation space, that's 1866c. If they were capable of 100,000c they could cross 70,000 light years and get back to Federation space in less than a year.

Again with this tired fallacy. Really now, haven't you followed 359's recent Warp Speeds List thread? If not, you really should. VOY even established firmly in three episodes that many years can be shaved off the trip at any point by simply improving the navigational data for a particular area. The vast majority of cited high-end speed quotes occur in Federation space or charted exploration areas and so on. Hell, in VOY, by the time of "Eye of the Needle", the estimate went down from 75 years to 70, presumably because of Neelix's knowledge of the local area of space sped up the journey some.

And it's clear that when fired at STL torpedoes remain at STL, taking a couple seconds to cross distances of a few kilometers (evidence: about every battle visual in Star Trek...ever...as a random example, have the battle from First Contact!). Torpedoes can maintain FTL speeds if launched at FTL but don't seem able to accelerate to such speeds.

Not quite true. In TNG's "Half a Life", the torpedoes fired from the relatively stationary E-D accelerate to very low FTL in a matter of seconds when fired across millions of kilometers into a star.

500 GJ went into the phase cannons, and they leveled a mountain the size of Mount McKinley.

Actually, the phase cannons had been over loaded by a factor of 10 times specification, and there were two cannons firing, with each cannon nominally rated for 500 GJ.
-Mike

[User1401]

500 GJ went into the phase cannons, and they leveled a mountain the size of Mount McKinley.

Mount McKinley?



If that's Mount McKinley, then those beams are as big as the Enterprise. (which they can't be, as they are clearly angled inward from their point of origin.

Also, photonic torpedoes are said to be able to, at maximum yield, put a three kilometer wide crater in an asteroid.

Fair enough, though torpedoes will be of limited use against Reapers because of point defenses.

Earth also has the nasty surprise that is the Verteron Array. Well, it's on Mars, actually, but that's really only a technicality. The Verteron Array has a range of light-minutes, as it managed to hit targets on both Luna and Earth within seconds of being fired from Mars.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Verteron_array

It might take down one or two Reapers, but the Reapers could jump into the atmosphere and approach it on the ground to take it out.

Again with this tired fallacy. Really now, haven't you followed 359's recent Warp Speeds List thread? If not, you really should. VOY even established firmly in three episodes that many years can be shaved off the trip at any point by simply improving the navigational data for a particular area. The vast majority of cited high-end speed quotes occur in Federation space or charted exploration areas and so on. Hell, in VOY, by the time of "Eye of the Needle", the estimate went down from 75 years to 70, presumably because of Neelix's knowledge of the local area of space sped up the journey some

Are you referring to this?

"TORRES: I've gone over and over the transporter logs. There's no question that if we try to transport ourselves through that wormhole, we'll end up twenty years in the past.
KIM: Then lets do it. It's better than trying to spend the next seventy years trying to get back."

One off-hand line from the operations officer does not contradict a categorical statement by the ship's captain.

Even if you assume lack of charts for navigation increased Voyager's projected travel time by an order of magnitude (which I don't see a reason for) that leaves Voyager with a maximum sustainable speed of around 10,000c or 20,000c. That still leaves Lucky's claim of 100,000c warp speeds as ridiculous.

Not quite true. In TNG's "Half a Life", the torpedoes fired from the relatively stationary E-D accelerate to very low FTL in a matter of seconds when fired across millions of kilometers into a star.

That might be the case, but a modified 24th century torpedo that was only used once is not a good example for 22nd century torpedo capabilities.

Actually, the phase cannons had been over loaded by a factor of 10 times specification, and there were two cannons firing, with each cannon nominally rated for 500 GJ.
-Mike

And it's not even the only yield given for phase cannons; a later episode, "Cogenitor", places phase cannon yields at 80 gigajoules

[Mike DiCenso]

Are you referring to this?

"TORRES: I've gone over and over the transporter logs. There's no question that if we try to transport ourselves through that wormhole, we'll end up twenty years in the past.
KIM: Then lets do it. It's better than trying to spend the next seventy years trying to get back."

One off-hand line from the operations officer does not contradict a categorical statement by the ship's captain.

It does stand, because Kim would not under exaggerate like that about something so important to not only him personally, but everyone else, and no one contradicts him. Furthermore, from a series standpoint, the 70 year number is the one that is gone with from most of this point forward until "The Gift" and then soon after, "Year of Hell, Part 1".

Even if you assume lack of charts for navigation increased Voyager's projected travel time by an order of magnitude (which I don't see a reason for) that leaves Voyager with a maximum sustainable speed of around 10,000c or 20,000c. That still leaves Lucky's claim of 100,000c warp speeds as ridiculous.

Did you even look at the thread I linked to? I guess not, because otherwise you would find a big whole list of very high warp speed examples from TOS to TNG to DS9 to VOY. The point is that when in well-charted space, Star Trek ships have some rather impressive speeds. The only issue here is that most 22nd Earth ships can't travel beyond warp 2, and the NX class can't do much more than warp 5.2 by the time of "Affliction" in season four. Some Vulcan starships are capable of warp six and seven, and presumably other advanced factions, like the Andorians, Tellerites, and Klingons are capable of similar feats. So while they are not capable of the speeds of the 23rd and 24th century starships of the Federation, they still will not be too horribly slow, either.

And it's not even the only yield given for phase cannons; a later episode, "Cogenitor", places phase cannon yields at 80 gigajoules

The same episode where Lt. Reed, who gave that quote to his counterpart, was paranoid about them? Context, Stargazer, context. It's everything. Reed is not going to tell someone he doesn't trust what his weapons can actually do, while the previous quote is from Reed and Trip (Chief engineer) to trusted crew members over a very important system to be used for combat.

Later on in "Horizon", Mayweather mentions that the weapons yield was increased by 80 percent using the direct impulse power trick. So 800 GJs per shot or 1.6 terajoules from two cannons. Whether or not they can ramp that up to the 10 x power that the alien device did in "Silent Enemy", is unknown, though 80 percent might be what they can get without blowing everything out as happened twice in the episode. But that's just for an Earth ship, which is considered to be very primitive by most other faction's standards. Everyone else is faster and more powerful as demonstrated routinely by the Vulcans and Klingons.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

Mount McKinley?



If that's Mount McKinley, then those beams are as big as the Enterprise. (which they can't be, as they are clearly angled inward from their point of origin.

Well, just doing a rough scaling, the peak is 19 times bigger than the beams are wide, while the base is double that. If the beams expanded out to four meters, then 76 x 152 meters. Now I found a nifty online cone volume calculator here, which gives this peak an approximate volume of:

459,694 cubic meters

This means that if the peak were made of iron (which it is clearly not), it would mass out at around 3,617,789,771.69 kg. It takes about 7.6 megajoules to vaporize 1 kg of iron, and so the maximum firepower possible here is around 27,495.20 TJ for two phase cannons on overload, or 6.57 megatons.

The actual firepower will be considerably less than this by a factor of two for the difference between granite and iron vaporization, and by over two orders of magnitude for ice. Realistically, 52 kilotons is about right.
-Mike