Ork Waaargh! VS ST Earth

[Cpl Kendall]

By an act of the Ork gods a warpstorm deposits the Ork invasion fleet bound for the Third War of Armageddon just outside the Sol System in the ST universe. This fleet consists of about 400 ships of various types (transports, raiders, Ork assualt ships etc) and four space hulks. These then make their way in system thinking that Sol is Armageddon. Orkz being Orks they will then crash the space hulks into Earth to land the force contained on them on Earth as well as crash their transports on the plant, disgorging more Orkz.

Figures I have seen for the Third Armageddon War range from several million Orks to one billion Orkz on planet. With the added bonus of Ork biology we can expect new Orkz to start cropping up in short order for reienforcements. The Ork ships in orbit as well as attendent fighta and fighta-bombas will also stick around to lend a hand to Ork forces.

Can Starfleet retake Earth or are they pooched?

[sonofccn]

Post dominion war Earth with no prep or warning vs millions if not a billion of Orks?

Well Earth would be no paradise for a while but I think the feds could push them off world assuming no major problems elsewhere pop up.

Phasers allow them to remove from exsistence any Orc hit in a single shot something only high end guns in WH40K can do IIRC. This should have the added bouns of decreasing the overall number of spores releashed as the Orc should more or less cease to exsist without the time to drop any. Plus the energetic discharge seen in "Hide and Q" gives the average redshirt a firepower advantage over the imperial guardsmen who have to deal with these sort of problems.

Transporters also should give the feds a mobility advantage the Orks would be hard to even compete with. If i'm not mistaken transporters in WH40K are very dangerous to use and innacruate.

I don't know the strenghts of Ork bombers or fighters to know how tough they are so they could either be decisive or useless.

Ork Heavy armor will be a problem that the Feds will have to work around, either from shuttlebased airstrikes or photon grenade barrages or something.

Also I was under the impression it took years before Ork spores reached maturity having to create an entire ecosystem for them first, squigs, gretchlings. If I'm wrong sorry in advance.

[Cpl Kendall]

Armageddon Info with references from Wikipedia

Basic Orkz info with references from Wikipedia

Orkz weapons and technology, have to scroll down a bit. Referenced

Ork info from WH40K wiki, referenced

Armageddon info from WH40K wiki, referenced. Not much there.

I realize the irony of using wiki sources after criticising another member who did so. Most of this stuff is referenced however and I would still recommend we take it with a grain of salt. I don't have any of the codex's however.

[Cpl Kendall]

Post dominion war Earth with no prep or warning vs millions if not a billion of Orks?

I just realise I forgot to mention a timeline for ST Earth. So yes Post Dominion war Earth.

Well Earth would be no paradise for a while but I think the feds could push them off world assuming no major problems elsewhere pop up.

I think that's under estimating the devestation caused by just the impact of four space hulks on the enviroment.

Phasers allow them to remove from exsistence any Orc hit in a single shot something only high end guns in WH40K can do IIRC. This should have the added bouns of decreasing the overall number of spores releashed as the Orc should more or less cease to exsist without the time to drop any. Plus the energetic discharge seen in "Hide and Q" gives the average redshirt a firepower advantage over the imperial guardsmen who have to deal with these sort of problems.

And why would the Feds be able to figure out in short order how the Orkz reproduce and how to limit it? Even if they phazorize away every Ork in combat, the ones behind the lines are still giving off spores. And they fight amongst themselves constantly, even killing each other. Giving off more spores.

Transporters also should give the feds a mobility advantage the Orks would be hard to even compete with. If i'm not mistaken transporters in WH40K are very dangerous to use and innacruate.

For the Imperium, as they have become lost and arcane tech. For the Orkz, technology works because they generate a pyschic field around themselves that grows stronger the more Boyz are around and this affects how their equipment works. So the more Boyz are around the more reliable and accurate their teleporters will be.

I don't know the strenghts of Ork bombers or fighters to know how tough they are so they could either be decisive or useless.

In the books fighta-bomba's are threating enough to be dangerous to capital ships in large numbers. But they are commonly used to support ground operations or down shuttles.

Ork Heavy armor will be a problem that the Feds will have to work around, either from shuttlebased airstrikes or photon grenade barrages or something.

It'll be a major problem as Orkz make extensive use of everything from crude motorcycles with tracks, four wheel buggies with armour bolted on them, Dreadnoughts similar to Space Marine Dreadnoughts to Battlewagons (akin to a tank) and even Gargants). And Orks often wear armour themselves.

Also I was under the impression it took years before Ork spores reached maturity having to create an entire ecosystem for them first, squigs, gretchlings. If I'm wrong sorry in advance.

I think the timeline is a little vague on how long it takes for new Orkz to pop up. I know that worlds invaded by Orkz have a feral Ork problem basically forever afterwards but it seems to vary from months to decades after landing.

[sonofccn]

I think that's under estimating the devestation caused by just the impact of four space hulks on the enviroment.

I assumed minimal damage from landing otherwise the whole fight is academic as the world would be borderline uninhabitable for a while.

And why would the Feds be able to figure out in short order how the Orkz reproduce and how to limit it?

I never said they would instantly figure it out, but I'm fairly sure they would figure it out and I doubt it would be a long time until they did so. I merely was pointing out an advantage, however usefull that the feds have.

Even if they phazorize away every Ork in combat, the ones behind the lines are still giving off spores. And they fight amongst themselves constantly, even killing each other. Giving off more spores.

Nor did I say it would stop 100%. Merely lessen the problem and possibly make the years of mopup more effecient.

For the Imperium, as they have become lost and arcane tech. For the Orkz, technology works because they generate a pyschic field around themselves that grows stronger the more Boyz are around and this affects how their equipment works. So the more Boyz are around the more reliable and accurate their teleporters will be.

Then I am in error, but I thought even to the orks teleporters were more reserved for teleguns that fired gretchlings and things bypassing armor and ruining your day.

In the books fighta-bomba's are threating enough to be dangerous to capital ships in large numbers. But they are commonly used to support ground operations or down shuttles.

Well what kind of firepower is used to down them. Flak bursts, missiles, tac-nukes?

[Cpl Kendall]

I assumed minimal damage from landing otherwise the whole fight is academic as the world would be borderline uninhabitable for a while.

Well I myself am not sure of the enviromental effects of a space hulk dropping on a planet but they are big. The Feds can always terraform Earth back to specs afterwards and would probably have too given the poltical importance of the planet.

I never said they would instantly figure it out, but I'm fairly sure they would figure it out and I doubt it would be a long time until they did so. I merely was pointing out an advantage, however usefull that the feds have.

I'll grant you that they will eventually figure it out. Even the Imperium figured out there biology and their not noted for their innovation and research.

Nor did I say it would stop 100%. Merely lessen the problem and possibly make the years of mopup more effecient.

What the Feds could really do with are some flamers.

Then I am in error, but I thought even to the orks teleporters were more reserved for teleguns that fired gretchlings and things bypassing armor and ruining your day.

I believe they do use teleporters which they call teleporta's, mainly from orbit to ground targets or for boarding and the Orkz in this scenario have plenty of ships. I believe your referring to the Zzapt Gun which does teleport snotlings (I believe) into the workings of your machinary and screwing up your day as noted. Teleporta's are by no means in common use by the Orkz but they are there and a resourceful Warboss would make use of them.

Well what kind of firepower is used to down them. Flak bursts, missiles, tac-nukes?

Anything from anti-aircraft guns to missiles. The problem is there are alot of them and might have void shields given Ork ease of creating such things.

[Jedi Master Spock]

If they've actually landed, that puts Earth in a pretty bad spot. We do need better figures for the number of orks in order to conclude anything, IMO - 1 million to 1 billion is too broad a range for knowing what precisely is going to happen.

[sonofccn]

What the Feds could really do with are some flamers.

Meh. A phaser rifle on widebeam has teh same range and area of effect as a flamer thrower but has the added ability to "burn" clean through a lot more durable substances then a flame unit can.

Anything from anti-aircraft guns to missiles. The problem is there are alot of them and might have void shields given Ork ease of creating such things.

Doesn't sound too bad. Just how tough would a void shield make one of these things.

I believe they do use teleporters which they call teleporta's, mainly from orbit to ground targets or for boarding and the Orkz in this scenario have plenty of ships.

So no field transporter like the feds have?

[Cpl Kendall]

If they've actually landed, that puts Earth in a pretty bad spot. We do need better figures for the number of orks in order to conclude anything, IMO - 1 million to 1 billion is too broad a range for knowing what precisely is going to happen.

Actually I said several million to a billion. The only reliable source I have on hand is from the omnibus The Last Chancers, the story: Annihilation Squad which states:

'Armageddon is the most militarised planet you will have ever encountered,' Schaeffer says. "The orks number in their millions, as do our own armies.

[Cpl Kendall]

Meh. A phaser rifle on widebeam has teh same range and area of effect as a flamer thrower but has the added ability to "burn" clean through a lot more durable substances then a flame unit can.

Except you can't use a phaser to burn the enemy out of a bunker.

Doesn't sound too bad. Just how tough would a void shield make one of these things.

At least as durable as a Federation shuttlecraft or runabout given that they are rather large. From what I understand the firepower and shielding of the WH40K universe is higher than Trek.

So no field transporter like the feds have?

Possibly, I don't have enough info to say for certain, teleporters in WH40K are rather large from what I understand. Although the Imperium has portable ones, whether the Orkz have them is anyones guess.

Of course the Orkz also have Wierdboyz (Psykers) that the Feds will have to contend with.

[sonofccn]

Except you can't use a phaser to burn the enemy out of a bunker.

Seriously I don't see why you couldn't fire the widebeam through the opening and stroll on in destroying anything in your way.

At least as durable as a Federation shuttlecraft or runabout given that they are rather large. From what I understand the firepower and shielding of the WH40K universe is higher than Trek.

I know it's higher for thier starships, but ground I never really saw much off. As to the fighters that is annoying but not all would be shielded by void shields if I understood you correctly.

Of course the Orkz also have Wierdboyz (Psykers) that the Feds will have to contend with.

That will not be pretty, but I'm sure if you shoot them enough they will die.

[Jedi Master Spock]

If they've actually landed, that puts Earth in a pretty bad spot. We do need better figures for the number of orks in order to conclude anything, IMO - 1 million to 1 billion is too broad a range for knowing what precisely is going to happen.

Actually I said several million to a billion. The only reliable source I have on hand is from the omnibus The Last Chancers, the story: Annihilation Squad which states:

'Armageddon is the most militarised planet you will have ever encountered,' Schaeffer says. "The orks number in their millions, as do our own armies.

I'll go with the low end of "millions," then, and say around 5 million.

Here's my scenario. Running with the scenario given (which has the Orks making a successful landing, which in turn implies surprise) the Orks do not succeed in completely taking Earth in the first place. The Federation retains control over not merely pockets of resistance, but significant territory.

Although they do make a big mess of things and take temporary control over much of the surface, with the fleet providing temporary air support until Starfleet engineers put a powerful planetary shield up, separating the fleet from the ground forces.

Ground warfare continues at a terrible and increasing cost on Earth while Starfleet outflanks and whittles away at the Ork fleet. Due to its great size and defensive posture, this takes a while. Between the hulk crashes and the Ork onslaught (and fleet bombardments), a significant fraction of Earth's population dies, and the damages are costly.

The combination of transporters and high-resolution sensors, however, prevents rogue Ork attacks after the first several incidents, at most.

[Cpl Kendall]

Seriously I don't see why you couldn't fire the widebeam through the opening and stroll on in destroying anything in your way.

Well a flamer allows you to do it without approaching the bunker and exposing yourself to fire from the firing slits. That's one of the reasons why they were invented. Usually if in RL, someone does what you describe and fires into a bunker from the front or throws a grenade in they get a medal because the action is so reckless and dangerous.

I know it's higher for thier starships, but ground I never really saw much off. As to the fighters that is annoying but not all would be shielded by void shields if I understood you correctly.

The nature of Ork technology is that not everything is the same, dependent on the individual Mekboy that made it. So no they wouldn't all be sheilded but there would be alot of them, usually there's enough to give the Imperium a run for air supremecy and they usually have lots of fighters.

That will not be pretty, but I'm sure if you shoot them enough they will die.

True enough, though I don't think that the Feds would actually be able to tell a Wierdboy from a regular Ork aside from size and the fact that every human around would become a gibbering wreck.

Hmm, so I guess they would know they were there. But whether or not they could keep their heads enough to to do anything about it is another matter. If there are Blanks among the ST forces then those in the immediate vicinity (a few feet) will be immune.

[Cpl Kendall]

I'll go with the low end of "millions," then, and say around 5 million.

Reasonable enough.

Here's my scenario. Running with the scenario given (which has the Orks making a successful landing, which in turn implies surprise) the Orks do not succeed in completely taking Earth in the first place. The Federation retains control over not merely pockets of resistance, but significant territory.

This is the usual happening in the WH40K verse. Either because the Orks like a challenge or it's simply how they do business. It's worth noting though that usually a Waagh! will draw in Orkz from all over the sector like moths to the flame, something we don't have to worry about here.

Although they do make a big mess of things and take temporary control over much of the surface, with the fleet providing temporary air support until Starfleet engineers put a powerful planetary shield up, separating the fleet from the ground forces.

This I have issue with. I believe in ST:TMP we hear passing reference to planetary defences but never anything that could be equated to a planetary shield. IN fact we've never seen anything in Trek to my knowledge that equated to a planetary shield. Theatre shields, yes. And I grant you they will probably be able to erect those in the areas they control, although how long they will last in the face of Ork orbital bombardment is open to question, at least until Starfleet can chase them from orbit.

Ground warfare continues at a terrible and increasing cost on Earth while Starfleet outflanks and whittles away at the Ork fleet. Due to its great size and defensive posture, this takes a while. Between the hulk crashes and the Ork onslaught (and fleet bombardments), a significant fraction of Earth's population dies, and the damages are costly.

Without doubt, my purpose in creating this thread was to provide SF with a challenge.

The combination of transporters and high-resolution sensors, however, prevents rogue Ork attacks after the first several incidents, at most.

I don't know about that, Ork vessels are very adept at hiding in Ort clouds and asteroid belts. Sometimes for years, plaguing the system for sometime. This will force SF to at least keep a heavy prescence in system until they can be sure the Orkz have been destroyed.

And of course if they don't find a way to eliminate the spores they will have feral Orkz popping up on Earth's wilderness areas indefinetly after they reclaim the planet.

[Jedi Master Spock]

This is the usual happening in the WH40K verse. Either because the Orks like a challenge or it's simply how they do business. It's worth noting though that usually a Waagh! will draw in Orkz from all over the sector like moths to the flame, something we don't have to worry about here.

This I have issue with. I believe in ST:TMP we hear passing reference to planetary defences but never anything that could be equated to a planetary shield. IN fact we've never seen anything in Trek to my knowledge that equated to a planetary shield. Theatre shields, yes. And I grant you they will probably be able to erect those in the areas they control, although how long they will last in the face of Ork orbital bombardment is open to question, at least until Starfleet can chase them from orbit.

I've answered the technical parts re:plausibility in the new thread; suffice it to say that I think that it's plausible that Starfleet could, at least most of the time, put a shield between the fleet and the ground action.

Mainly, though, I posit it because it feels like the right "next thing" to happen. There are a variety of technologically plausible actions that could be taken - some perhaps more effective - but that one seems appropriate.

Without doubt, my purpose in creating this thread was to provide SF with a challenge.

They definitely have one here.

I don't know about that, Ork vessels are very adept at hiding in Ort clouds and asteroid belts. Sometimes for years, plaguing the system for sometime. This will force SF to at least keep a heavy prescence in system until they can be sure the Orkz have been destroyed.

They may well do that.

And of course if they don't find a way to eliminate the spores they will have feral Orkz popping up on Earth's wilderness areas indefinetly after they reclaim the planet.

I think they'll find them fairly quickly after the first batch of ugly Ork respawn incidents - possibly earlier, but I don't think anybody would think to look for Ork spores until afterwards.