Freddy Krueger in Silent Hill

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:29 am

Sat back and watched Freddy vs Jason and silent hill back to back last night so...A distraught youth from Springwood is being haunted by Freddy, in his dispondancy he takes a trip, a trip to the town of Silent Hill. His idea is to die in the town and maybe trap freddy there (for the sake of argument he knows there is something about the town but not exactly what). He falls asleep in Midwich elementary school and is confronted immedeatly by Freddy, but as Freddy is doing his thing, everything begins to change around him. his beloved boiler room changes dramatically as everything gets a lot more rusty and dingy than he usually likes it and things he did not conjure up can be seen shuffling in the dark corners...The memory of Allessa is in control now.

All monsters and elements from the Silent Hill games are evident including Pyramid head, what do you think ol' Freddy Krueger will do in this situation, can he turn it to his own use or does he fall to pyramid head (or even the aliens, or worse the little dog!)
here is a useful link for Silent Hill by the way;
http://translatedmemories.com/book.html

AFT · Post by **AFT** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:59 am

An Horror movies debate! Thatâ€™sâ€¦kind of weird but enjoyable nonetheless. A bit of a problem though, I havenâ€™t seen Freddy vs. Jason nor Silent Hill, just the first four or so Nightmare on Elm Street movies and played Silent Hill 3. But on the bright side I got now a mission for this Saturday: Watch those two movies! Yes, leisure time!

l33telboi · Post by **l33telboi** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:04 am

I've never played the games, but i thought Pyramid-head was supposed to be immortal, respawning and such? Besides, pyramid-head is officially the ultimate king of rape. Or so i've come to understand.

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:38 am

Freddy vs Jason isnt really necessary, the first 3 movies will sufice. The above link will give a very good overview of Silent Hill up to the third game (spoiler alert). All other movies are just gravey.

AFT · Post by **AFT** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:40 am

watchdog wrote:Freddy vs Jason isnt really necessary, the first 3 movies will sufice. The above link will give a very good overview of Silent Hill up to the third game (spoiler alert). All other movies are just gravey.

Well, then! I completed half my mission already! Since I intend to some day play the games I think Iâ€™m going to skip the link you provided and watch the movie instead.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:13 pm

Well, I'd love to participate, but it means I have to watch at least four or five films, play like one or two games, and I'm seriously doubting my chances to fulfilling even half that task.

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:26 am

Really, if you dont mind spoilers to the games you can check out the link, or go to wikipedia. or check out;
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/198641/4180

and;
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/437029/14102

I also found some interesting info on Freddy Krueger at Wikipedia;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddy_Krueger

Personally I think that Freddy may meet his match in Silent Hill, I figure that Silent Hill in its original apperance (the first game) was really a dream-like world created by Allessa. The movie bears this idea out some which is why I stuck Freddy in it. Krueger has shown an ability to take control of the dream world from all but the most powerful of individuals (dream masters and such) but I have my doubts as to his ability to take control from Allessa.
And then of course if he ran into Pyramid-head he might really get what he deserves :D
But really, Silent Hill apparently calls out to those with guilty souls and forces them to face their nightmares, all the monsters are crafted especially for each person so Freddy will probably have to face off with something we've never seen before.
And of course there is the UFO's and the little dog that is controlling the whole town;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLMPByYWkKE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6wd33LZXNM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEJf9bOW ... ed&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t5jZvH7 ... ed&search=

Which is probably more in line with this place. ;)

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:24 pm

Ah nice stuff, safe the lame UFO crap.

So if we're talking horror about dreams and nightmares, this is going to get funny. Silent Hill seems to be damn real, but also a focus poitn for many souls to materialize physically.
That's the shit for Freddy, since he was apparently killed at least once, if not more, when reintegrating the physical realm.
Silent Hill might just suck Krueger even faster into the real universe. He may have issues returning to dream land. That said, who's going to ever dream in such a town? Not only most potentials dreamers are ought to be slaughtered, but the others abominations of Siletn Hill don't seem to approach anything related to dreaming, even if it's called nightmares. But I could be missing something.
Anyway, teh effect of Krueger's activities in that town, if they ever manage to take off, may become extremely limited, especially if no tourists get trapped there.

Well, my first interpretation would be that Krueger will never be allowed to mess around, and no one nor anything in Silent Hill will be there to keep the memories of Freddy, so he couldn't resurrect from whatever hellish realm if people started to fear him.

Now, if he directly terrorizes Allessa, and if that whole mess is her fault, somehow, then as long as she's there, Krueger might have a definite chance of, at least, integrating Silent Hill.
However, I believe his first foolish act would be to try to kill hat Alessa.

GStone · Post by **GStone** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:46 am

I think the minimum requirement was for someone to be aware Freddy existed and then, that person went to sleep. They didn't need to dream about Freddy specifically or about anything related to him and his backstory, I believe. Isn't that what happened in NoES 2? This lass read a diary of the girl Freddy fought at the end of NoES 1? It's been ages since I saw those 2 movies. I haven't played the game or read most of the scans yet, but does Alessa sleep? If she does, he wouldn't need to show himself to her in the dream. Just manipulate her dream till he found a way to kill her.

sonofccn · Post by **sonofccn** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:55 am

Since it appears freddy's dream is being invaded by Allessa, Freddy is nigh unstoppable. No matter how much you dice and slice him he can come back for more in his dreams. Saying that I say he can take everything up to Allessa with ease. Even pyramid head. Most of those minions can be taken by a normal human with a 9mm(Juding from the movie and the one game I'm slightly familiar with. A physco demon able to conjure up any form needed will have a field day.

Can you say superfreddy?:)

As to the real threat I don't know. Freddy can manipulate reality if he's powerful enough IIRC but he might be biting off more then he can chew here.

My vote, he either join freely or is asborbed into the silent hill's "collective".

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:06 pm

I've seen one or two Freddy thus far, and far all I know, you need, first, to think that Freddy's around, so you start to fear him, and then once you fall asleep, you're swallowed into his dream realm. That said, once he kills you, it seems to have like a limited effect on the physical plane, in a very close proximity to the subject's location.

Then I saw the one where Freddy has a little bit more powers in the real world, to large extents in fact. It's the one with the baby on the highway. There, he's extremely powerful.
That said, he can only be as long as people fear him.
What sort of soulless ghost/demons will fear about a thing they'll try to outright kill and either manage to or be killed by?
Plus those demons don't dream as far as I know.

The real point of focus is Alessa, because if I understood it correctly, her dream is kinda special since contrary to a normal person's dream, Alessa's ones manifest within a town stuck inside some bubble, and that special realm is directly conected to Alessa, right?

It could be that if that girl is frightened, all her minions will.

However I can't really know, because it seems that Silent Hill rolls independantly of Alessa in later sequels apparently, and this would tend to dramatically lessen her real influence over the town.

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:38 am

Silent hill is actually more than just Allessa, The Native Americans who inhabited the area revered the place as the 'place of silenced spirits', the region apparently had some misterious power even then. At some point a religious order was formed based off of the old beliefs, but twisted in some way. The order wanted to bring about the birth of their dark god which is where Allessa comes in at. She somehow was born with strange powers due to the fact that she was ment to give birth to 'god'. Unfortunately the first attemt to bring forth there god only suceeded in calling forth half of its soul (Allessa), Dalia Gillespie got the idea that she could call forth the other half herself somehow which for some reason led her to lock Allessa in their house and set the house on fire.
The profile for Allessa states; A young girl who caries the god inside her body as a result of a ritual conducted seven years ago.Cheryl was separated when the ritual took place, but in order for the two of them to return to a single body once again she was called back to silent hill.
The bottom line is that in the end Allessa/Cheryl ceased to be as she gave a third incarnation of herself to the first games protagonist Harry. When this child is 17 she returns to Silent Hill and begins to regain all her former memories as Allesasa reawakens. in one point in the third game she fights what is called the 'memory of Allessa', a remnant of the deep emotions Allessa left behind in the town. She wanted to end her continuous suffering and tried to kill her 'other' self. Basically all thats left of Allessa in Silent hill is all this pent-up emotion that can apparently manifest itself at will.

All you need to know about what happens in the town now can be found here http://translatedmemories.com/bookpgs/Pg94-95.jpg
The town calls to people now, those 'who bear the weight of some crime and shows them what is in their heart.' The 'town has come to be a place that calls to those who hold a profound darkness in their hearts.' Deepest thoughts and fears become manifest through the dark power in the town, That is one of the explanations for whi James Sunderland in the second game ran into the monsters that he did (and why the little girl he constantly ran into throughout the game apparently never saw any monsters at all), Most of James monsters were kind of feminine due to his guilt over his wifes death, that was why pyramid head was the way it was. It represented James himself and his own guilt (including the raping of the feminine monsters in the game). The one time that someones monsters overlap is later in the game when James has to fight the father-monster that manifested during his conversation with Angela who it appears had killed her father for abusing her as a child.

As for ol Freddy, I would argue that he does not need direct belief in order to get to you, many of his first few victems knew nothing about him when he began haunting their dreams. I'd say he works upon your fear first and slowly builds his way up to the final kill, even in Freddy vs Jason none of the kids knew anything about him other than his name which allowed him to start appearing in peoples dreams. Freddy appears unbeatable because, well he's already dead so you really cant kill him. Thats why I found it strange that they pulled him out of the dream world in order to kill him in the real world...which would most likely send him back to the dream world. My personal theory about Freddy is that his power seems to be focused through his glove (like Harry Potter focuses through his wand to cast spells), some kid putting on Freddys glove in nightmare 2 allowed Freddy to posses the kid and kill in the real world, and many times he uses his 'jedi powers' in the dream world he does so through his glove. The real question is can he still attack you when you leave Springwood, indeed he apparently needed his own daughter in order to escape in 'Freddys dead'. But for the sake of this thread we'll say that he can hitch a ride this once.
I personally believe that for Freddy, his glove is what the one ring was for Sauron, destroy it and you've maimed him forever. Against certain powerful people, so-called dream masters and such, Freddy is on an equal footing and has to get crafty. He's good at crafting dreams and bending them to his will exept against the dream master. What Allessa did was blur the line between her nightmares and reality, Silent Hill now does that to people who come to the town making your darkest fears manifest. It's possible that he could be forced to face off withsomething worse than even Pyramid-head, the forces behind Silent Hill are more than just Allessa, they are the old gods that inhabited the 'place of silenced spirits'. Freddy Krueger is more than just a ghost, he is a demon through and through, but even he would have some trouble against old gods I think.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:42 pm

As for ol Freddy, I would argue that he does not need direct belief in order to get to you, many of his first few victems knew nothing about him when he began haunting their dreams.

Yet it was absolutely necessary for him to make people believe that Jason's murders were in fact Freddy's ones, so fear of Freddy would regrow, and he could mess around, again.
Freddy is extremely reliant on his origins. If the whole place he's been living in when a mortal got nuked and everybody in the know killed, Freddy would be stuck forever.
He got on Elm Street mainly because this place had a terrible past, which Freddy was tied to, and that alone was enough to frighten kids. The difference being that Freddy got offered the power to return from the dead, and hunt more preys by the moment those preys would fear him.
Otherwise, his story wouldn't be different from any "monster story" kids are afraid from, but never get killed by.

Since I don't see how the souls that haunt one person could believe and be afraid, it all boils down to the few persons present in Silent Hill.
The random tormented guy won't be a problem.
If Freddy is not already there, he won't be afraid of him, and Freddy won't have any power over him.
If Freddy is already there, it has something to do with the place, not the said tormented person who's been attracted to this town.

I need to learn more about Allessa, and only then I'll know what happens.

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:07 am

Freddy couldnt come back if no one remembered or were afraid of him (his own words), but thats probably due to the dream demons that originally powered him. His very first victems knew nothing about him not even his name until Nancy brought his fedora out of the dream with his name written in it.
it would appear to me that as far as Freddy is concerned, he builds the fear up by haunting your dreams and working his way up to the kill through your fear. If you knotice in the first movie he would start out simply doing scary things before moving on to physical harm (you could say he sweetens the meat first with fear). Jason had killed only one person and then Freddy tried to strike, he scared the guy but wasnt strong enough to actually kill him deciding to let Jason take him and the kids dad. The two asylum escapees spread even more fear and Freddy was prepared to take the drunk girl when Jason got her and a bunch more pissing off Freddy and setting the stage for their confrontation. I mean after all he was able to attack Jason as well after knocking him out. I havent seen Freddys dead in a long time (silly movie) but it would seem that he needed to hitch a ride out of Springwood using his daughter. thats the point where this thread breaks down I dont know if he can leave Springwood with someone else.Freddy could most likely scare Allessa pretty well, but when she retaliates he'd better look out. What is not clear to me about Allessa is, does she have half the soul of a god in her, or is she just carrying the soul in her. at any rate she can apparently tap into the power to alter reality at will. the one thing that seemed to nulify her power was the device known as the flauros.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:57 am

Wow, a device... that's even more stuff to consider.
Can Allessa be killed? What's the extent of her powers, how are they activated, and do they reflect her emotions, thoughts or beliefs?
Does she need to concentrate, be in a given state or else to use them?
Or are they on by default, like an aura? Does she simply enhances them voluntarily?

Damn, my former post, above, didn't make much sense.

- Your posts never make much sense you know.

Shut the f*** off.

Starfleet Jedi

Freddy Krueger in Silent Hill

What would happen if Freddy wound up in Silent Hill

Freddy Krueger in Silent Hill

WARNING MASSIVE SPOILER ALERT!!!