Roman Empire vs Mordor

[Admiral Breetai]

Romes size isn'rt helping their armies against olyphants and trolls I mean while they're gonna do better than a dark age army they'd need to borrow some metallurgy tech from Gondor and maybe pay Dwarves to make their weaponry.

Fear of death or lack thereof Nazgul can still mind rape

[Picard]

Olyphaunts are only... ehm, "only", two times the size of elephants, and can probably be dealt with by using fire arrows, as elephants were in RL. Nazguls, as soon as Romans discover that they can be set on fire, same way.

[Admiral Breetai]

Olyphaunts are only... ehm, "only", two times the size of elephants, and can probably be dealt with by using fire arrows, as elephants were in RL. Nazguls, as soon as Romans discover that they can be set on fire, same way.

they were a bit bigger IIRC and from what I recall even Gondor soldiers with their steel had trouble with their hides

[KSW]

Romes size isn'rt helping their armies against olyphants and trolls I mean while they're gonna do better than a dark age army they'd need to borrow some metallurgy tech from Gondor and maybe pay Dwarves to make their weaponry.

Fear of death or lack thereof Nazgul can still mind rape

As Tolkien wrote in Letter1 #210 about the Nazgul:

Their peril is almost entirely due to the unreasoning fear which they inspire (like ghosts). They have no great physical power against the fearless; but what they have, and the fear that they inspire, is enormously increased in darkness.

That's one reason why the Nazgul fear Elves, since Elves have no fear of death, being immortal. In contrast, mortals in Arda fear death due to the lies of Melkor-- who never existed for the Romans.
Likewise, the Holy Roman Empire was devout Christians, i.e. they followed the one true God, in addition to their tradition of Roman stoicism; and so they wouldn't be affected by the Nazgul.

And again, only the Witch-king can actually see in the daylight; that's why when he's killed, his Lieutenant, a man named "Gothmog,' had to take over to lead the Siege of Gondor. Kamul, the second Nazgul, was unable to do so.

Second: you think Oliphaunts and trolls are that powerful?

First of all, Oliphaunts aren't that huge; they're "as big as a house, " and can definitely be killed by Roman war-engines like giant crossbows. Alexander the Great was able to defeat Hannibal's forces of elepants using axe-men, IIRC. (Yes, I know he was Greek, but the Romans adopted his strategies). Likewise, the men of Gondor were able to defeat the Oliphaunts by getting close enough to shoot them in the eyes.
And there aren't very many Oliphaunts; there are a few during the Siege of Gondor, and their main benefit was that the horses of Rohan would not go near them.
And there were no Oliphaunts at all mentioned among the forces of Mordor-- only Minas Morgul and Harad.

Likewise, only the hill-trolls can fight in the daylight, and one of them can be killed by a hobbit with a knife. Likewise, Hurin himself was able to kill 73 trolls using an axe.
Finally, a cave-troll was able to be beaten and driven off by a single hobbit.
In all, trolls didn't play much part in the War of the Ring, and neither did Oliphaunts; you're completely ignoring numbers.
By vast and large, it was about 200,000 men from Asia, at most; this is what Denethor saw in the Palantir, and this is what drove him to end his own life to escape certain defeat.
But in contrast, Rome would have not too much problem dealing with that, with Rome being based on the model of citizen-soldiers.

[Khas]

Um, Alexander the Great never fought Hannibal. Hannibal was Carthaginian, and launched a campaign against Rome. Alexander's main enemies were the Persians.

As for elves being immortal, that only applies to natural causes of death (old age, sickness, etc.). They can still be killed by fire, weapons, or extreme sorrow. However, elves also know EXACTLY what awaits them in the afterlife. They go straight to the Halls of Mandos, aka the Halls of Fate (not related to Manos: The Hands of Fate). So, they might not have that much of a fear of death.

[Praeothmin]

Finally, a cave-troll was able to be beaten and driven off by a single hobbit.

When did that happen?
Movie, or book?

[Admiral Breetai]

Cave trolls hide so thick steel notched on it?

I'd call that PIS as For Tolkiens comments regarding the ring wraith...his actual novels paint a vastly different picture..up and including poisoned breath and paralyzing an entire battlefield

[Mr. Oragahn]

Code: Select all

Eru is the chief god they worship him it also helps they spoke to Manwe who said along with his emissaries numerous times they were not to be worshipped but men all men not of Numenor or affiliated with them worshipped the valar as gods mistakenly 

You're getting it wrong. Eru isn't "shief god", he is the God, like Christian God. Valar are Archangels, and Maiar are Angels of lower order.

It depends on definitions; Manwe was the "governor" of Arda or Earth, and so he could be called a "lesser god" in this context, along with the other Valar, since Eru intervened in the affairs of Arda only when called upon directly, and the Valar have direct authority over the Maiar, and among the Valar themselves. They also created and shaped the Earth, which Eru made as only "void and without form." The only things Eru made were actual living people with living spirits of their own, i.e. he held the power of "The Flame Imperishable," while the Ainur created the stars, plants, air, water, soil, weather etc.; Eru simply gave them basic substance of matter, energy, time and space.
So the Ainur are gods, since they create and control things on their own, i.e. they make their own "Music" via the Aulindalinde, vis. the universe.

In contrast, the Judeochristian "God," i.e. Jehova, is the ONLY god, and only He created the Heaven and the Earth, and everything on it; angels created NOTHING, and control nothing except as God expressly instructs.
The angels are only his messengers, and act ONLY on his command, and answer ONLY to God Himself; there is no hierarchy among them, tough some are more powerful than others. Indeed, Lucifer fell when he assumed hierarchy over other the angels who followed him.

In contrast, Sauron had very little power, and his main strength was craft and ruthless political deception-- skills with which Rome was not only adapt, but master among men; it's no accident that Machiavelli was Italian.
And without his Ring, Sauron had no actual power to influence anyone's will.

There's quite some form of hierarchy amongst the "creatures" surrounding the Christian God. Not so much in the Jewish version of it, although the God in both is essentially the same. Some angels did have some powers but indeed couldn't use them on their own volition, and Lucifer was quite a late invention, very problematic as it is, considering the very origins of its name and how it was used in so different ways, either to refer to king of Babylon (Hebrew sources carried on in the Christian Bible) or the son of God himself (vulgate, Lucifer merely meaning "he who carries the light" basically). I don't think there's anything like severe punishment for accessing to a certain form of knowledge in LOTR mythology, like there is in the whole abrahamic lineage.

[Picard]

Valars do have more powers than Angels, but both Valar and Maiar are both angelic orders; Eru Illuvatar is the one true God, but Tolkien obviously attempted to explain both polytheistic and monotheistic religions alike, while remaining clear that there is only one true God; but he directly stated that Valars are often mistaken for Gods.

However, Angels are often viewed as God's messengers in Abrahamic religions; in LotR, that role seems mostly to fall to Maiar, and, occasionally, to Valar (I might be wrong here, I don't remember wether the guy who led Valar army into War of Wraith was Vala or Maia, but he was messanger - he greeted Earendil when latter arrived into Valinor).

[Admiral Breetai]

god or angel or fallen angel or fallen god

Sauron slaps Palpatine around and laughs at him

*waits for SWST to have a complete mental breakdown*

[Picard]

Sauron gives Palpatine the One Ring.

(500 years later)

Smeagol-Gollum: "Yesss, my Preciouss, give us sssome fissssh..."
Palpatine-Gollum: "Nooo, my Preciousss, this fissssh is ours, ourssss, gollum!"

[Jasonb]

Roman Empire lead the attack likely deploys million men strong to fought Mordor and match to it. Roman Empire also had better weapons then men had at Middle Earth include crossbows

[Picard]

Ehm-kehm. Roman Empire had better organization, logistics, leadership (usually), but it never could raise "millions" of men, and didn' have steel (althought I beleive its iron was quite good).

[Admiral Breetai]

Roman Empire lead the attack likely deploys million men strong to fought Mordor and match to it. Roman Empire also had better weapons then men had at Middle Earth include crossbows

what nonsense is this?

[Mr. Oragahn]

Sauron gives Palpatine the One Ring.

(500 years later)

Smeagol-Gollum: "Yesss, my Preciouss, give us sssome fissssh..."
Palpatine-Gollum: "Nooo, my Preciousss, this fissssh is ours, ourssss, gollum!"

Pah! Palpatine may think his ring could be placed in the core of a Death Star to fire universe-shattering beams I'm sure.