Terran confederacy vs (ST:ENT)Earth

[sonofccn]

Q transports the entire Koprulu Sector to the Star Trek galaxy, and only a short distance from Earth. Atleast short enough for both sides to cross into each other territory within a reasonable time frame. Shortly after contact the two sides declare war. The Confederacy will be at it's hieght and will not have to deal with Zerg or Protoss. Earth will be post season 4 of Enterprise which should give it atleast two NX ships and an odd assormtnet of lesser vessals and will not be helped or hindered by any Trek race.

IF this is to much of a curbstomp I'll add Vulcan and Andorians as allies.

Rules:

Standard rules except for one thing. I'm forbidden the Confedercy from simply doing a massive nuclear strike like they did against Koral. Tatical nukes are fine however.

EDIT:

Regarding Starcraft cannon ranking I prefer as follows
1.Game cutscences
2.any and all novels
3.Game itself

[l33telboi]

Has there been any real quantification done on what the ships are capable of in ST: ENT? Just to know what it's basically all about.

Fleet sizes, i'm guessing, will go to the Confederacy, but as for what ships are more powerful, haven't got a clue. And this, no doubt, would be the deciding factor in this debate.

[Dragoon]

I think the Yamamoto class battleships would be able to take on the small 'starfleet' at the time, although I am unsure as to what their main weapons platform is.

[l33telboi]

I think the Yamamoto class battleships would be able to take on the small 'starfleet' at the time, although I am unsure as to what their main weapons platform is.

Behemoth-Class Battlecruisers you mean? There's nothing really quantifiable about them, all i can remember on short notice is that they can completly blow up another Battlecruiser in about a second with their Yamato Canons, though that's pretty much useless info without knowing how sturdy those ships are.

Then there was an incident with a Behemoth doing an uncontrolled re-entry and crashing into a planet. The ship was destroyed but people on-board survived. If you go by what the thing looks like after the crash from in-game visuals, then i'd consider that a pretty impressive feat. Seeing as how it looked like the fall had been almost vertical.

Oh yeah, there was also an incident where it was inside the atmosphere of a planet, hovering over a battlefield, then suddenly it accelerates away at quite hefty speeds, indicating quite a substantial power generation method.

Nothing's really known about the 'lasers' on the ship though.

I have this vague recollection of someone saying the ships also employed nukes in a novel, or was it from 'Ghost'? Can't really remember.

[sonofccn]

Has there been any real quantification done on what the ships are capable of in ST: ENT? Just to know what it's basically all about.

Well we know a NX class starship has 500 gigajoule rated phase cannons (silent enemy [ENT 1]) and has photonic torpedos with a possible maximum yield of 20 megatons(The Expanse [ENT 2]). Two other ship classes have been observed in use by earth. A less advanced looking delta shaped vessel with phase cannons as well and a shorter bulkier version of the NX class. Presumbly they would have spatial torpedos atleast through I have no idea of it's firepower.

Fleet sizes, i'm guessing, will go to the Confederacy

I would assume so, but IIRC during one of the UED's mission during broodwar involved capturing a dozen battlecruisers which was considered a major blow to the Terran Dominon which was basicly the Confederacy under new managment. So inuniverse they might not as heavily outnumber Earth as one might initially think.

EDIT: fixed my goof. I guess my mind wandered mid sentence.

[l33telboi]

Well we know a NX class starship has 500 gigajoule rated phase cannons (silent enemy [ENT 1]) and has photonic torpedos with a possible maximum yield of 20 megatons(The Expanse [ENT 2]).

Phasers that deliver roughly 0.1 kilotons of punch and torps that are roughly 20 megatons? That seem like quite a wide gap when considering what they did to enemy ships. But weren't these weapons upgraded at season 3 in any case? I seem to recall some form of refit being done. They even changed torpedoe type at some point IIRC.

In any case, the Yamato should be able to at least match the torpedoes. As the Yamato is basically a weapon channelling and focusing a nuke blast. And nukes don't seem that weak in Starcraft, considering they were once able to glass a planet with some. That was the Apocalypse nukes though, so i don't know what they employed afterwards.

But then again the Yamato is a very limited weapon and it's described as being scarce among the BCs.

So really, i have no idea. But one thing seems quite certain, there definetly isn't an all too wide gap between firepower both forces employ.

I would assume so, but IIRC during one of the UED's mission during broodwar involved capturing a dozen battlecruisers which was considered a major blow to the Terran Dominon which was basicly the Confederacy under new managment. So inuniverse they might not as heavily outnumber Earth as one might initially think.

Hmm. 12 ships? Sounds a bit dinky.

I took the liberty of extracting a few relevant screens from the cinematics of the game. I apologize for the bad quality, but there were some problems when trying to grab screens of smackplay vids.

I'll start with the UED. I know that the UED was not included in this debate, but it just seems strange that 12 ships would seem significant to them when they most likely have BCs numbering in the hundreds. In this screenshot you can see their forces arrayed over Char, or at least part of them. I count about a houndred ships, but some of the ones in the background could be of another class, so i'm not sure. Again, sorry for the bad quality.



Here's another pic, this time after the UED had been beaten and where retreating. Not nearly as many ships, but considering they'd just lost pretty much everything they had and we still manage to see eleven ships from just one brief angle...



Now then, to the Confederacy. Here's a pic from the endgame cinematic showing a large fleet arrayed over a single planet. However, there are several things to note. There are actually quite few BCs present here, most ships are of some other class not seen in the game, so what tasks they perform is unknown. They might very well not even be warships. But even so, this is after the Confederacy lost a major part of their fleet to the Protoss invasion, even more with the fall of their homeworld and the Zerg attack and they're still in the midst of a civil war.



So in conclusion. I'd say it's likely the Confederacy, at their peak, had anything between a houndred and houdreds of BCs, not counting whatever other ships there are.

[sonofccn]

Phasers that deliver roughly 0.1 kilotons of punch and torps that are roughly 20 megatons? That seem like quite a wide gap when considering what they did to enemy ships

Well the torps estimate was based on dialoage saying they ( a photonic torpedo) could put a three kilometer crater in an asteriod which St-V-SW.net refrenced as 20 megatons. Phasers were directly stated to be 500 gigajoules so should be a nice lower limite.

But weren't these weapons upgraded at season 3 in any case? I seem to recall some form of refit being done. They even changed torpedoe type at some point IIRC.

I believe your refering to the retrofite done to the ship before they entered the expanse. They switched from spatial torpedos to photonics and possibly added more phase cannons through no where is it stated IIRC that they were upgraded for more firepower.

In any case, the Yamato should be able to at least match the torpedoes. As the Yamato is basically a weapon channelling and focusing a nuke blast.

Possibly. Any idea on the firepower needed to blow up a steel construct the size of a battlecruiser as the Yamato cannon is shown capable of doing?

And nukes don't seem that weak in Starcraft, considering they were once able to glass a planet with some. That was the Apocalypse nukes though, so i don't know what they employed afterwards.

I far as I know Apocalypse nukes are not the same as the tatical nuke employed by Terrans so the whole thing may be iffy.

Hmm. 12 ships? Sounds a bit dinky.

I know. Ingame it would be an almost expenable aramada yet the UED thought it was worth fighting tooth and nail to capture them. One of the reason I put the game on thelower end of canon.

I'll start with the UED. I know that the UED was not included in this debate, but it just seems strange that 12 ships would seem significant to them when they most likely have BCs numbering in the hundreds.

Well the cutscence outranks any stupid story mission so I'm all for it.

So in conclusion. I'd say it's likely the Confederacy, at their peak, had anything between a houndred and houdreds of BCs, not counting whatever other ships there are.

In truth even if broodwar mission had been unopposed I would have guesstimated something in the hundred range, against this visual evidence I do agree in a 100+ ship fleet.

[sonofccn]

Here's a pic of a Earth fleet defending...you guessed it earth.

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/display ... 30&pos=445

Counting the Enterprise I got about fourteen vessels all appear to be of human design.

[l33telboi]

Transporters are going to wreck havoc on the Confederates though. Without shields, the whole 'beam a bomb onboard' approach should be fairly easy.

[sonofccn]

Transporters are going to wreck havoc on the Confederates though. Without shields, the whole 'beam a bomb onboard' approach should be fairly easy.

Yeah but IIRC transporters were still bleeding edge technolagy at that point and not standard on all ships yet.

A pro for the confedercy I think will be thier Wraith fighters. Powerful enough in numbers to down capitol ships and supposedly manuvable enough to evade the bulk of the laser battery fire these guys could wreck some havoc and Earth doens't really have a counter besides shuttlepods( a slow moving brick of a target) or wasting heacy ammo in "Flak burst". Worse I think one of the novels state that battlecruisers carry a dozen or so with them.

[AnonymousRedShirtEnsign]

How big is a Confederacy battle cruiser?

[Dragoon]

At least a couple hundred meters, to my knowledge. The cinematic that shows it hovering over the battlezone isn't exactly the best for scaling, but its pretty damn big.

[Mike DiCenso]

The real problem is that there is nothing to scale the Confederacy ships to in the provided images. Does anyone have any images or documents that give show one of these vessels next to something that is of a reasonably known size (e.g. a person)?

At least with the Earth Starfleet vessels, like the NX-class, we know they're somewhere around the 225 meter range, with the smaller (older?) Intrepid-type ships and the others somewhat smaller in size.
-Mike

[l33telboi]

The real problem is that there is nothing to scale the Confederacy ships to in the provided images. Does anyone have any images or documents that give show one of these vessels next to something that is of a reasonably known size (e.g. a person)?

The size of the Battlecruiser is something people have been wondering about for ages, because in the end there really isn't all that much one can deduce from the cinematics in the game.

The best, and only, way i can think of scaling, is using the hangar bays it has and comparing that with the size of a Wraith. This will give a lower end estimate, but what if the hangar openings are much larger then the Wraith is in height for instance? Then we'll have a figure that is way too small. So something accurate would be really hard to come by.

If you want to give it a go, i can grab some more images. But you'll probably have to wait a while, because i'll have to extract the vids from the game again to be able to take screens. And i'm not really in the mood right now.

In any case, if there's someone willing to do it. Just give me a chime and i'll see what i can do by means of providing pics.

[Mike DiCenso]

Anything that would peg the size within a reasonable margin (say +-15%) would be fine.
-Mike