(TOS) Cylon Empire vs Galactic Empire

[User1652]

This is a post I made at spacebattles.com and I decide to make it here to get better answers.
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=206947
By act of ROB before the destruction of the 12 colonies of the TOSBSG the Cylon Empire is taken to a remote satellite galaxy close to the SW galaxy. The events for Star Wars take place 1 year before A New Hope.

[Mike DiCenso]

I don't get where Mackon gets those numbers from. Nothing in any part of the novelization of "Saga of a Star World" ever really gives a statement for the number of capital ships.

In the TOS BSG proper, Cylon basestars were more than a match for a Colonial Battlestar in one-on-one combat, with or without their complement of Raiders. So unlike nBSG, the TOS basestars were not only carriers, but heavy battleships as well. To give you an idea, in TOS BSG's "The Hand of God", it required a major sabotage mission to knock out a pursuing basestar's sensors so that the Galactica could get in close enough and fight it. Even then it was still a pitched battle as seen here.

So TOS basestars will be pretty tough to fight, especially since we see in the PT and TCW that SW ship firepower is not anywhere near as impressive as the Warsies would like it to be.
-Mike

[Admiral Breetai]

yeah wasn't OBSG basically top tier sci fi firepower wise?

[Mike DiCenso]

We really don't know where exactly TOS BSG firepower stands given that we almost never saw them fire on targets we could quantify. The strafing of Caprica in SoaSW might suggest weak firepower, but then again, it may be that the Cylons wanted the planets relatively intact for later use like their nBSG counterparts did.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Debating with TOS BSG is too complicated, since it's really all over the place. These were the mass produced 80s shows, with cheaps shots and quick plots.

[Mike DiCenso]

By that arguement, we can't quantify almost any other series, since shows like TNG, and Doctor Who tend to be "all over the place" when it comes to what they can and cannot do.

The real difficulity with TOS BSG is that they seldom fired on anything quantifiable. Firing on other ships is a tough one to gauge because we don't know what the heck they may be made of, and with the fighter combat where the whole ships seemed to vaporize in a cloudy fireball, we don't know if that is the sole power of the weapon, or if it is something else like an overload powerplant or ignited fuel. At least with TNG-era Trek or B5, we have them destroying modest sized asteroids and the like.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

By that arguement, we can't quantify almost any other series, since shows like TNG, and Doctor Who tend to be "all over the place" when it comes to what they can and cannot do.

The real difficulity with TOS BSG is that they seldom fired on anything quantifiable. Firing on other ships is a tough one to gauge because we don't know what the heck they may be made of, and with the fighter combat where the whole ships seemed to vaporize in a cloudy fireball, we don't know if that is the sole power of the weapon, or if it is something else like an overload powerplant or ignited fuel. At least with TNG-era Trek or B5, we have them destroying modest sized asteroids and the like.
-Mike

I beg to differ. For old BSG, it is really that bad. Like lone Cylon Raiders threatening Pegasus, when those ships, on the upper end of the spectrum, can cast a shield to protect an entire planet from a multi-nuclear attack, or even vaporize in one shot a pristine Basestar, yet letter on can't stop more Raiders from just putting a nacelle on fire... a tame fire that proves devastating to the ship so much that they have to convene of a cheap plan to fire shaving foam / ice cream in the bay to extinguish the whole fiery mess. Those Raiders, on a mission to ruin the Colonies, and unleashing massive amounts of wet firecrackers on Caprica. :( Or like those Vipers accelerations which can be above FTL on boosters, and at other times just furiously sluggish. I win button, that was the idea back then.

[Mike DiCenso]

I don't think you've watched TOS BSG in a while. For one thing, in "Experiment in Terra" where the Galactica blocks multiple nuclear missiles, that feat was accomplished when the missiles were still in the boost phase of flight and their warheads would not have detonated. So while it's a very impressive showing for stoping KE, it's not a good indicator of shield strength beyond the gigajoule-range.

As for the Pegasus from "Living Legend, parts 1 & 2", the battlestar was swarmed by literally hundreds, if not a thousand or more Raiders. This was not a few lone Raiders causing the ship problems.

And finally, in "Fire in Space", which was basically a retelling of "The Towering Inferno" plotline, they did not fire foam into the massive out of control fire that had spread through much of the ship by pumping foam into it, they sent Apollo and Starbuck out on EVA with explosives and vacated the air out of those spaces.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

I don't think you've watched TOS BSG in a while. For one thing, in "Experiment in Terra" where the Galactica blocks multiple nuclear missiles, that feat was accomplished when the missiles were still in the boost phase of flight and their warheads would not have detonated. So while it's a very impressive showing for stoping KE, it's not a good indicator of shield strength beyond the gigajoule-range.

I could give you that, but I think the episode suggested rather strongly that it could cope with the nuclear detonations. There's still the shield that got stretched over that much area, and a ship which can vaporize a battlestar in one shot. Yet weeps when mere Raiders annoy it.

As for the Pegasus from "Living Legend, parts 1 & 2", the battlestar was swarmed by literally hundreds, if not a thousand or more Raiders. This was not a few lone Raiders causing the ship problems.

I don't recall Pegasus displaying any fundamental damage.

And finally, in "Fire in Space", which was basically a retelling of "The Towering Inferno" plotline, they did not fire foam into the massive out of control fire that had spread through much of the ship by pumping foam into it, they sent Apollo and Starbuck out on EVA with explosives and vacated the air out of those spaces.
-Mike

At first they did try to fire that foam. They considered it a valid solution. All of which started because of some miserable fire into the bay.

[Mike DiCenso]

I could give you that, but I think the episode suggested rather strongly that it could cope with the nuclear detonations. There's still the shield that got stretched over that much area, and a ship which can vaporize a battlestar in one shot. Yet weeps when mere Raiders annoy it.

I think you misremember what happens. See my later reply on the Pegasus damage in "Living Legend". Also, I don't think it's suggested anywhere that a battlestar can withstand multiple nukes detonating, unless you really stretch the implication of such a thing.

I don't recall Pegasus displaying any fundamental damage.

The Pegasus gets clobbered just flying through that huge swarm of Raiders without trying to directly challenge them. Just watch from 24:25 onwards to 33:00.

At first they did try to fire that foam. They considered it a valid solution. All of which started because of some miserable fire into the bay.

They tried, but failed to control the fire, which is the whole point. It didn't work and when it got completely out of control, they had to decompress the compartment. You can watch the episode here and see for yourself. Like I said, it's a redo of the "Towering Inferno" movie.
-Mike