Magneto vs Palpatine Vader and Dooku

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mojo
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Re: Magneto vs Palpatine Vader and Dooku

Post by mojo » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:05 am

just for the record-

"He can control even the most insignificant magnetic particles in the atmosphere and living beings, reversing their blood flow or ripping out any ferrous elements through their tissues. He can even affect the structure of atoms through the electromagnetic bonds between electrons and the nuclei. He has demonstrated the ability to lift tens of thousands of tons with his magnetic powers, although the greater he exerts himself the greater the physical and mental stress. He can erect magnetic force fields with a high degree of impenetrability around himself or others for protection and can fire bursts of magnetic or electrical energy, including very powerful EMP's."

"Because of it’s nature, electromagnetism being one of the four Foundation Forces of the Universe (along with gravity, and strong and weak nuclear bonds), Magneto's power is "for all practical purposes limitless". Although Magneto’s primary power is control over magnetism, he can also project and manipulate electricity as well as any form of energy that is part of the electromagnetic spectrum, including visible light, heat, radio waves, ultraviolet light, gamma rays, and x-rays. He can also manipulate gravitons to create an anti-gravity fields and has created traversable wormholes between two points on this planet. It has been theorized that perhaps Magneto may be living proof of Einstein's "Theory of Everything", otherwise known Unified Field Theory, that all forms of energy are interrelated. However, Magneto relies principally on magnetism since it is somewhat more difficult for him to manipulate other forms of energy."

"Magneto also seems to possess some telepathic abilities, though the source of them has been much debated. Magneto has demonstrated the ability to ward off telepathic attacks from some of the worlds most powerful telepaths by force of will alone, it took Professor Xavier and Jean Grey together to wipe Magneto’s mind. Magneto has also exhibited powers of astral projection and has shown himself sensitive enough to pick up on the feelings of others, such as the New Mutants, passively. It is unclear whether this is from a latent telepathic ability or training (such as Dr. Strange has). It has been theorized amoung fans (specifically by ECH2007 of the Marvel boards) that because brainwave's are bio-electric in nature, Magneto may be able to mimick certain affects of telepathy through the use of his electromagnetic powers."

"Magneto has harnessed magnetism to stop armies, raise islands from ocean floors, move mountains, change the course of rivers, and threaten to devastate the world with apocalyptic floods and continent shaking earthquakes. Magneto once blanketed the entire globe with a self-generated electromagnetic pulse that caused widespread devastation. Moreover, he can use his magnetic powers in more than one way simultaneously. He can completely assemble a complicated machine within seconds through his powers."

"Magneto is also able to manipulate a magnetic field to interfere with telepathic attacks being one of the few mutants who can stop mind probes with their power alone."

"Magneto usually protects himself with a personal force field that he can quickly expand to protect large areas. His force field has withstood the effects of multiple nuclear weapons, volcanic eruptions, the depths of space and attacks from multiple Avengers or X-Men, including Phoenix, Thor, and even Galactus."

"Magneto is also capable of sustaining flight for very long distances and at varying speeds. He apparently has several means by which he achieves flight, one of which is by gliding along the planet's natural magnetic lines of force, another by simply creating a repulsive force between himself and the planet, propelling himself thus. By using his magnetic powers, Magneto can virtually travel at trans-light speeds; however, in order to travel in space, Magneto also requires his force field to breathe."

"Magneto has the to focus magnetic energy into an extremely powerful concussive blast, which can be utilised for various purposes."

"Magneto is able to manipulate matter even to the subatomic level for a number of purposes. This might explain why he is not limited to objects with metallic properties and is able to manipulate objects with non-metallic properties like wood, stone, plastics, etc. to such a degree. This is due to the electromagnetic force which exits between atoms and other subatomic particles."

"Magneto has recently presented the power to atomically bond metallic substances to any designated surface material. This newly developed technique allows Magneto to blend metallic alloys with the earth, water, and air (HoM)."

"Magneto can control the traces of iron within organic matter, which allows him to have full control over an opponent's body. He can manipulate the iron-enriched blood-flow to one's brain to induce aneurysms or unconsciousness, alter thoughts and perceptions, or blank a person's mind completely. He can even remove ferrous compounds from the bloodstream entirely through a person's skin. Magneto has used his magnetic abilities to extract the Adamantium bonded to Wolverine's biomolecular skeletal structure. Through this ability, he is also able to save people who are injured by metal, e.g. bullets."

"Under normal conditions, Magneto possesses the physical strength of a well conditioned athlete. However, he can channel vast amounts of magnetic energy through his body for the purpose of granting himself vast superhuman strength which limits are unknown. Whatever those limits might be, he is ultimately able to lift far in excess of 100 tons with ease."

"As a result of increasing his strength, he dramatically increases the overall efficiency of his musculature. While magnetically enhanced, his muscles produce considerably less fatigue toxins during physical activity than the musculature of a normal human. Magneto can exert himself physically for up to at least a few days before the build up of fatigue toxins in his blood starts to impair him."

"Under normal conditions, Magneto possesses the physical durability of a well conditioned athlete. However, he can channel vast amounts of magnetic energy through his body for the purpose of granting himself vast superhuman durability, to the point he can shrug off punches to the face from super humans such as Namor and Colossus while weakened and remain unharmed."

"He naturally possesses enhanced reflexes. He can further enhance this reflexes with magnetic energy, to the point he can pluck out of the air with his hand, superhumans as swift and fast as the likes of Northstar with ease."

"By using magnetic propolsion Magneto is capable of reaching superhuman speeds very easily whether if he is Earth bound or not."

"Although Magneto's primary power is Magnetism, he has an extensive ability to project or manipulate any form of energy that is related to the electromagnetic spectrum. He can fire and absorb bolts of electricity and magnetic force, reverse lasers and other forms of radiation or energy, create enough intense heat as infrared radiation to level a city, manipulate gravity, and become invisible by deflecting visible light around his body. Infrared radiation is part of the electromagnetic spectrum, which also includes visible light, radio waves, ultraviolet light, gamma rays and x-rays -- Magneto can project any of these. Magneto has demonstrated the capacity to produce a wormhole, and to safely teleport himself and others by means of the wormhole."

"A mastermind, Magneto is a genius within various scientific fields. He is an expert on genetic engineering and mutation, with knowledge far beyond that of contemporary science. He can mutate humans in order to give them superhuman powers, instill genetic mind-control, create adult clones of human beings, and then manipulate the genetic structures of these clones during their development. He has designed magnetically-powered aircraft and spacecraft, complex robots and computers, and magnetically-powered generators and created artificial living beings, space stations said to possess technology even Reed Richards would envy, and machines capable of nullifying mutant powers within a radius of several miles."

"Magneto's helmet is built to shield his mind from psychic probes and manipulation. The costume that Magneto wears is actually a type of armor that he has created through the use of his magnetic powers. The costume is actually an amalgam of various lightweight, but highly durable, metallic alloys that further protects him from many forms of physical injury."

yeah, magneto wins.

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Re: Magneto vs Palpatine Vader and Dooku

Post by Admiral Breetai » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:12 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Admiral Breetai wrote:Eric's messed with souls before


Oh really? When did this shit happen?
-Mike
IIRC a couple years before house of M the Shi'ar killed the hell out of a bunch of Mutants and Magneto created holographic bodies for their souls stopping them from moving on long enough for them to say goodbye to their loved ones. He then proceeded to lay waste to an entire imperial fleet which is in and of itself something usually only heralds can do.

it might be an outlier but damn if it wasn't impressive plus the narration "we're only here because of him..he's doing everything ''"
Praeothmin wrote: Well, while not as powerful as EU Siths, movie Thor is pretty High end, and movie Silver Surfer as well...
He's impressive I mean he's not Reeves Superman or anything movie surfer was pretty impressive but his boss was a joke.

edit - Mojo when Galactus shot him it was to shoo him away not hurt him he didn't withstand a murderous assault by big G the only people I know of who have are Dr Doom Dr Strange and Beta Ray Bill (who did it primarily because he was steroided on heat from a nearby star)

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mojo
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Re: Magneto vs Palpatine Vader and Dooku

Post by mojo » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:52 am

if that's the only thing on the list that can even be challenged, then this debate is over.

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Re: Magneto vs Palpatine Vader and Dooku

Post by General Donner » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:59 pm

mojo wrote:as far as i know, magneto has no chance against xavier without his wacky helmet. am i missing something? and again, does it matter? if the helmet can completely cut off interference from xavier, what chance does telepathy or mental control from force users have?
I think the helmet blocking telepathy comes from the movies, not the comics. In the latter Magneto generally holds out against Xavier due to gargantuan willpower, and/or his own minor psi powers.

Again, I also don't think he really can hold his own against Xavier, at least not for any length of time. Not when he's not holding back.
mojo wrote: 1. are you talking about force ghosts? because if magneto can hold off telepathic force attacks, then please, how is a force ghost going to be any different? and again, please, what is a force ghost going to do to magneto anyway? it's just.. i mean.. it's silly. would he even notice they were there?
The dark side version of Force ghosts, that can and does manipulate reality more directly than with sage counsel. Exar Kun's ghost, for example, could cremate people with his powers ... or snap their bones with telekinesis.
2. define 'mystic', please. you might have gotten away with that before lucas decided that even the force needed a scientific explanation. i'm no star wars genius, but every single time i've come across something that looks like magic in the eu, it's actually the force.
The Force has a scientific explanation?

"Mystic" was my improvised catch-all term for magic and magic-like stuff in various settings. In the Marvelverse it would be the stuff Doctor Doom, Doctror Strange and similar people are throwing around. Magneto generally can't manipulate those energies AFAIK. I assumed "similarity in kind" with the Force.
3. is there even evidence that the force itself is a form of energy that magneto cannot control? i can provide evidence that magneto can control other forms of energy besides magnetism. there is at least a small chance that placing magneto in the presence of the force would make him the most powerful force user of all time, allowing him to even cut off all access to the force to anyone else for thousands of miles around him.
That I would judge as "unknown and unknowable, but very unlikely" based on the info we have.

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Re: Magneto vs Palpatine Vader and Dooku

Post by Admiral Breetai » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:27 pm

mojo wrote:if that's the only thing on the list that can even be challenged, then this debate is over.
it is to the extent that Galactus wasn't trying to pop his bubble just throw his and Xaviers concentration off they would stop trying to read his mind. (that's another feat in and of itself aside from Thanos there aren't allot of people that are strong enough to actually make Galactus try and swat you out of his mind) and it worked. if Galactus really wanted him dead he'd be dead

his shield is pretty potent though Thor and Thunderstrike have both spent half an hour wailing on it with Hammer blows with Eric being none of the worse of wear and it was worth noting he was focused on keeping close to a billion tons of meteor in a stable orbit rather then defense.

He can also absorb lighting and use it as steroids

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Re: Magneto vs Palpatine Vader and Dooku

Post by mojo » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:45 pm

General Donner wrote:
mojo wrote:as far as i know, magneto has no chance against xavier without his wacky helmet. am i missing something? and again, does it matter? if the helmet can completely cut off interference from xavier, what chance does telepathy or mental control from force users have?
I think the helmet blocking telepathy comes from the movies, not the comics. In the latter Magneto generally holds out against Xavier due to gargantuan willpower, and/or his own minor psi powers.

Again, I also don't think he really can hold his own against Xavier, at least not for any length of time. Not when he's not holding back.
yeah,untrue. the helmet comes from the comics, and works as described. add that on top of his natural willpower defense or whatever.
Donner wrote:
mojo wrote: 1. are you talking about force ghosts? because if magneto can hold off telepathic force attacks, then please, how is a force ghost going to be any different? and again, please, what is a force ghost going to do to magneto anyway? it's just.. i mean.. it's silly. would he even notice they were there?
The dark side version of Force ghosts, that can and does manipulate reality more directly than with sage counsel. Exar Kun's ghost, for example, could cremate people with his powers ... or snap their bones with telekinesis.
so you mean like the telekinesis that doesn't work on magneto? and some sort of heat energy that he would simply absorb without effort? good job.
donner wrote:
mojo wrote:2. define 'mystic', please. you might have gotten away with that before lucas decided that even the force needed a scientific explanation. i'm no star wars genius, but every single time i've come across something that looks like magic in the eu, it's actually the force.
The Force has a scientific explanation?

"Mystic" was my improvised catch-all term for magic and magic-like stuff in various settings. In the Marvelverse it would be the stuff Doctor Doom, Doctror Strange and similar people are throwing around. Magneto generally can't manipulate those energies AFAIK. I assumed "similarity in kind" with the Force.
yes, the force has multiple scientific explanations if you believe the eu, and we have a scientific explanation from prequel-ville which at least explains the connection to the force which you well know. given a scientific explanation for the jedi/force connection implies a scientific explanation for the force exists.
i am aware of no particular weakness to said 'mystic' energies. maybe breetai can clear that up one way or the other.
donner wrote:
mojo wrote:3. is there even evidence that the force itself is a form of energy that magneto cannot control? i can provide evidence that magneto can control other forms of energy besides magnetism. there is at least a small chance that placing magneto in the presence of the force would make him the most powerful force user of all time, allowing him to even cut off all access to the force to anyone else for thousands of miles around him.
That I would judge as "unknown and unknowable, but very unlikely" based on the info we have.
given that i provided evidence from the official marvel website stating that magneto can indeed control many different forms of energy unrelated to magnetism, i would call that bullshit.

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Re: Magneto vs Palpatine Vader and Dooku

Post by General Donner » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:52 pm

mojo wrote:yeah,untrue. the helmet comes from the comics, and works as described. add that on top of his natural willpower defense or whatever.
Where? The first time I saw that mentioned was in one of the mid-tier Grant Morrison "New X-Men" stories ... and those were basically all about cribbing the movies for stuff to make them look cooler. The X-Men even turned in their superhero suits to dress up like in the movie.

Magneto in the comics didn't even use a helmet for most/all of his hero arc under Claremont. I can't think of any one story in all the first Claremont run that mentioned the helmet in that context. From all I can see that's a post-movie idea.
so you mean like the telekinesis that doesn't work on magneto? and some sort of heat energy that he would simply absorb without effort? good job.
When does telekinesis not work on Magneto?
yes, the force has multiple scientific explanations if you believe the eu, and we have a scientific explanation from prequel-ville which at least explains the connection to the force which you well know. given a scientific explanation for the jedi/force connection implies a scientific explanation for the force exists.
Where in the EU more specifically? They've racked up a couple of hundred books by now, you know. ;)

The lame "midichlorian" prequel stuff confuses more than it explains. For example: if the Force is due to some kind of physical symbiont, how can Force ghosts even exist? They have no flesh for parasites or symbionts to nest in. And we know all life needs the Force.

In any case it does nothing to explain the Force itself. How can these "midichlorian" things work as they do? How is telekinesis effected? Why can it apparently violate conservation of momentum? Not to mention precognition, which violates causality. But Jedi can do this because, well, magic.

Throwing in some kind of intermediary between Jedi and Force (midichlorians) doesn't make it scientific. At least no more so than Judaism for saying that a leper cannot be High Priest of their religion, because that's ritually unclean and drives away God. It's just tying a known physical fact (bodily condition) into the greater non-scientific belief system.
given that i provided evidence from the official marvel website stating that magneto can indeed control many different forms of energy unrelated to magnetism, i would call that bullshit.
He can affect them because they are related to the fundamental forces of physics as we know them, and with lessening effectiveness the farther away from magnetism they get. I wouldn't call that a blanket statement that he can control every kind of force unless noted otherwise. Consider the fact he generally can be shot at with beam weapons (like Cyclops' eye-blasts) in-universe; his control over energy seems rather peculiarly limited given the range of his powers otherwise. IIRC one comic explained his "blind spots" as the result of brain trauma in his youth. (Sort of like with Cyclops, but less consistent and invented as a retcon rather than in from the start.)

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