The Exterminatus of Typhoon Primaris

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: The Exterminatus of Typhoon Primaris

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:58 pm

Oh Rama. This forum has strong guidelines against libel, but you know he deserves it.

Here he is with one of his silly posts, full of wit, thinking that he makes a smart point.
Rama wrote:
If anything it potentially says something interesting about Imperial terraforming technologies when you consider that a geologically dead planet with a core density of roughly three and a half thousand times that of osmium that exerts over a million times as much gravitational potential at the surface as the Earth (meaning that Spesss Mehreens can comfortably operate in environments with a gravitational potential equal to a neutron star) can maintain a habitable atmosphere that retains comfortable terrestrial pressures at less than several hundred meters without turning to a poisonous liquid crystalline cloud. It's especially impressive when not only hasn't the surface water boiled off thanks to the atmosphere retaining as much insular material as a broken condom holding back a subzero Arctic wind (ergo there wouldn't be cloud material except for poisonous heavy elements if there was an atmosphere), but the constant bombardment from debris and stellar radiation hasn't equal parts cooked and tenderized life on the surface thanks to this planet having enough of an impact on the space-time continuum to draw in stellar debris from multiple astronomical units. All whilst simultaneously protecting the surface as well as a sheet of paper would protect you in a tank battle.

God Emperor knows why they didn't sink the resources into finding a habitable planet that wasn't filled with a substance denser than Nibblonian shit, but it certainly speaks well for their power generation technology and material science.
This is the same kind of bloke who doesn't flinch when reading all the gibberish about SW and 40K super yields, doesn't wink when looking at cutscenes featuring objects obviously out of scale, but never has the honesty to do anything more constructive than just dwelling though layers of self-serving mockery.
Why he can't actually try to provide an alternative to what he obviously sees as a ridiculous theory, that of a superdense core?
Is he that bad that he cannot see the problems of scales, or is it dishonesty that has him cherry pick what he likes from a cutscene while knowing that something's not right in what is shown?
Couldn't he have the decency to give the links to the wikipedia articles he keeps citing while trying to look like he's picking from his genuine knowledge? Osmium, really. Who the fuck knows about osmium's density? Certainly not a guy who's been derided in the past for precisely trying to pass off wikipedia articles as his own culture.
I've read about iron's density many times and I still can't remember the value.

It's just as bad as the mediocrity constantly displayed by WR. How can one not laugh at him?
White Rabbit wrote: Don't get too into him on the super dense core bit, its the fact that Mith has to insist on a midget planet with said super dense core to validate actually calcing the scene thats something to laugh at. Particularly when contrasted with his ilks attitude to say, the firewarrior cutscene, where the scaling of the planet and ships is obviously a deeply flawed issue, which means we can pretend the whole thing doesn't happen!
;)
Oh. So he admits that the scenes are completely fucked up, BUT it doesn't matter. Let's proceed with a generalization and use theis counter logic to pass absurd claims.
Don't you love it? As the scene is obviously so completely screwed from A to Z, why should we accept anything of what we see? Where should we put the cursor and say that's fine but that is not?
Size of the explosion? Speed of the spread of the magic fire wave ? Where?
It precisely comes from the same people who kept using those scenes as final proof of the be all and end all of IoM firepower, while in fact, aside from being crippled with scaling issues, they actually are strict exceptions, in that it usually takes a constant and long bombardment of a planet to achieve an Exterminatus, and that when largely relying on the technobabble weapons that cyclonic warheads tend to be.
See? Isn't it funny how they forget that an Exterminatus is just not a question of shooting stuff for a few seconds at a planet (Firewarrior) or one missile (the case of Typhon)?
Why can't they bother rationalizing that? Oh, we know. It allows them to up things. Now an Exterminatus is just one missile affair, even against an Earth sized planet.
Its the double standard, and the picking of this one example of ships not even using their primary batteries as his sole proof that makes it a typical Mithstake.

The super dense core concept is supposedly why Titan has earth standard gravity for example.
Supposedly? :)

Titan's mass is 0.0225 times Earth's. Yet the IoM really increased its mass so that world had a density akin to Earth's.
It's merely a question of pouring more of that dense stuff into a planet until you get what you want.

The Dark Age of Technology was a time of wonders for the Imperium. The entire damn Solar system was moved closer to the galactic core.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h67JpMyrOVE

At 26 seconds, you see the size of the main ship in comparison to its escorts.
Some seconds later, you see the shadows cast on the planet. Unless said rivers are like dozens of kilometers wide, there's just no way the main ship is going to be a hundred km long or hundreds of them long, contrary to what The Reaper may think.
At 45 seconds, the bombardment begins. It's more than obvious that the planet is damn small. It may not be as small as measured by Mith on the last picture featuring the super duper warhead (DAoT one time wonder?), but it could just be another Titan.
The main problem they have is that the ventral weapons obviously don't show the expected high megatons, gigatons or even teratons they usually go with. Hence why they try to pass those weapons as crap.
Then why the fuck would they use them in an Exterminatus, preceding the launching a warhead that would torch the surface of the world anyway? Why would they pull punches.
Right, they wouldn't.

I also love the claim that the primary bombardment of Typhon Primaris should be disregarded because the ships don't use their primary batteries.
Did WR just stop looking at himself in the mirror once to notice that the beams fired by those ventral and quite unique weapon slots were exceptionally huge?

Image

What does he think the primary weapons' beams should look like?

In conclusion, it's just easier to go with what I said like more than one year ago: those cutscenes have nonsensical scales, and I wouldn't use them for anything save a general idea of what took place.

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: The Exterminatus of Typhoon Primaris

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:34 pm

Note: download the 1080p video of the cutscene, and then take a look at the trees that border the rivers. You'll suddenly realize that those escort ships, the bulk of that fleet, aren't even beyond something like 100~150 meters long, tops.
The trees are not exceptionally tall and serve as a very good yardstick, if you really want to make some measurements.
Even the biggest ship's main cannon bore isn't wide than one tree length and a half.
Deadguy2001 wrote: On the topic of terrible scaling in Dawn of War II, skip to 0:33 in this video. That's a fairly MEGA HUGE battlebarge in the background if the thing in the foreground is a 1km escort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20JWJb2I6_4

As for the whole Typhon Primaris incident why not e-mail Relic or Games Workshop? Maybe we should ask HBMC, he's an FFG employee so he might be in the know.
We see the dropship fly into the battlebarge and it's clearly showing that the battlebarge is nothing like what he thinks it is. It's just that the people who Relic paid to make those cutscenes believe that some escort ships that look like Lunar-class Destroyers for example, are like a hundred meters long, more or less.

For all intents and purposes, the whole Down of War series has created a new class of very small FTL capable warships that look like they greater cousins, and some of those ships also have ventral weapons used for massive orbital punishment.

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Re: The Exterminatus of Typhoon Primaris

Post by User1657 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:21 am

Just an honest question... why are you refuting the points of random people on a completely different forum, when they probably won't even be able to respond to your argument or even see your post for that matter?

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Re: The Exterminatus of Typhoon Primaris

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:08 am

AnticitizenOne wrote:Just an honest question... why are you refuting the points of random people on a completely different forum, when they probably won't even be able to respond to your argument or even see your post for that matter?
Enjoying a freedom. Mith treads on eggs, and I am completely kicked out of that other forum.
Now, simple requests on various search engines will show that threads on this board do surprisingly show up rather well, considering its low profile.

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Re: The Exterminatus of Typhoon Primaris

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:15 am

As I pointed out in another thread in the Technical forum, this board gets a fair amount of lurker traffic, which means, as Mr. O has pointed out, that there are a number of threads that show up with a relatively high number of search engine hits.
-Mike

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