Cloud Strife and Thor vs. Kharn the Betrayer and Lobo

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Admiral Breetai
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Re: Cloud Strife and Thor vs. Kharn the Betrayer and Lobo

Post by Admiral Breetai » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:54 am

mojo wrote: haha, did you read the issue of the punisher where punisher blows off wolverine's face with a shotgun, then runs wolvie over with a steamroller and just leaves it on his head?
that was classic!
that's hilarious no I missed that one I did read the one were punisher shot wolverine in the balls then face..then after that an Illuminati of midgets showed up so they grabbed golf clubs and just batted them around a sub way for a few incredibly unPC and mildly offensive yet hilarious panels

mojo wrote: i don't know about the sun thing, i kinda stopped reading when grant morrison left new x-men, and that's been awhile. i read the astonishing that came after for about two arcs, but then it got boring. wouldn't the adamantium melt, if it were actually inside a sun? because, i mean, it must melt at some temperature, or how did they fuse it with his skeleton in the first place? it was a liquid at that time, i have the mcp weapon x issues.
Morrisons run on the X- men was good I don't like Whedon although Morrison in my mind is like Frank Miller..they should always be writing Batman or Richard Dragon or shang chi or punisher or heroes for hire they excel at street hero stories and tend to go completely insane when doing anything else

once it hardens into a substance it can't be broken or melted period primary adamantium that is. Logan could of spent thousands of years in the core of that star or in a blackhole and when dug out regenerate back (assuming there's any of his cells left)

the only time Adamantium has been "broken" was against the infinity gauntlet another time Magnato ripped it out of logan but considering the insane stuff Magneto's been doing lately from matter to energy transmutation to making wormholes it seems to require really powerful transmutation abilities or nigh omnipotence basically

not that Wolverine himself can't be hilariously beaten up See Wonderman playing whackamole with him or Hulk repeatedly head butting him until he was mildly retarded for an issue or two "I taste purple guys"
mojo wrote:also, was this the same personification of death that is deadpool's girlfriend? cuz if you could actually get ahold of her, she didn't look too fearsome. i think i could probably beat that broad myself.
She's Galactus baby sister and fought against the chaos king (that Japanese god amatsu Mikaboshi who used to troll thor, basically roided himself up recently) when he was blowing up universes..and Set and other nasties..

she may look harmless but realistically Logan had no chance..plus come on any body who dates freaken deadpool has to be dangerous I mean can you imagine the four play? forget that!

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Re: Cloud Strife and Thor vs. Kharn the Betrayer and Lobo

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:46 pm

mojo wrote:lobo is boring as hell. imagine, oragahn, wolverine from the x-men, only take his personality and attitude so far that it becomes parody, then give him whatever strength he needs to do whatever he's trying to do without ever spelling it out. then have him almost beat up superman every couple of years, and there you go. also he rides a motorcycle through space.

uh, sephiroth actually did some pretty cool stuff. what do you call supernova? heartless angel? cloning himself using parts of jenova and inhabiting them? controlling the minds of every jenova-infected human on the planet? controlling cloud? calling meteor? holding back holy for months?
Wow, he's quite some nonsense.
Mind you, the FF7 characters also pull off some stupid crap at convenient times. Dirge of Ceberus had Vincent do fancy jumps and all that which are impossible in game. In both CC and FF7, characters do super jumps and even fly in cutscenes, or have materia summoning that literally pulverize giant moons and teratonize planets, but barely scratch a thing living in a cave.
I'm not sure how to take that, it's just silly. With things like Bahamut, it's funny.
The goddamn Bahamutyou fight is like 20 meters tall, but in the attack video, he's like huger, flies between two planets FTL, and then fires its spines at a big moon that seems just too close to the planet, and the spines are the size of the moon. The weaker Bahamut fires some atomic fireball of some kind. Well, anyway, I guess Lobo is a good pick then.

Oh, besides, just in case, some fan made (I think) FF7 timeline.

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Re: Cloud Strife and Thor vs. Kharn the Betrayer and Lobo

Post by mojo » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:21 am

i would never ever consider trying to argue that the sephiroth feats (or any other ffvii character for that matter) make sense. i simply throw them out there as having happened. i mean, for god's sake, supernova? he does that over and over again in ffvii's last battle. blows up the sun repeatedly. everyone survives to keep fighting, assuming they don't run out of hp.

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Re: Cloud Strife and Thor vs. Kharn the Betrayer and Lobo

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:20 pm

There's still the possibility to limit all that to the anime, the movie and the cutscenes.
We know that when Sephiroth acted from the Lifestream, he could use the black materia and summon meteor. It took a half Cetran (Aerith) to summon Holy with the black materia and fight back the meteor invocation.
Technically, both couldn't do anything without the materias. The Planet's own defenses weren't particularly impressive either, under the form of the Weapons.
I have no clue about what Kharn is capable of in the real world. If he's like, in terms of magnitude, similar to the God Emperor of Manking while he was still walking among men and fighting, he may not be that impressive at all.
Thor seems to be have some nifty powers but since I don't give any particular attention to comics superheroes, and have only seen the trailer of that tepid Thor movie, this isn't going to get very far.

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Re: Cloud Strife and Thor vs. Kharn the Betrayer and Lobo

Post by mojo » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:46 am

sephiroth no longer requires materia once he absorbs the knowledge of the ancients.

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Re: Cloud Strife and Thor vs. Kharn the Betrayer and Lobo

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:59 pm

mojo wrote:sephiroth no longer requires materia once he absorbs the knowledge of the ancients.
Sure of that? Even Cetrans still had to use those special materias to get thos enifty powers. They had locked the black materia in some place. Perhaps being a Cetran and part of the Lifestream circumvents the need for a special materia, although I'm not seeing why.

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Re: Cloud Strife and Thor vs. Kharn the Betrayer and Lobo

Post by mojo » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:12 am

i'm absolutely certain. sephiroth specifically says so, and aerith explains why during the weird pyramid bit when seph goes to get the black materia. the materia holds the knowledge of the cetra as to how to do a certain magic. seph needed the black materia because it held the 'recipe' for calling meteor. once he had it, he no longer needed it.

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Re: Cloud Strife and Thor vs. Kharn the Betrayer and Lobo

Post by mojo » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:20 am

sephy actually explains most of the basic concept early in the game, in the first flashback to nibelheim. materia is condensed lifestream containing the knowledge of the ancients. the knowledge allows the user to cast the spell, the lifestream contains the energy to power it. the mp used when you cast a spell activates the spell, it doesn't power it.

since sephiroth absorbs tremendous amounts of lifestream constantly, and has access to a literally unlimited supply, once he absorbs the information in a materia, he's free to use it as he pleases, and most of those recipes are floating free. only the rare ones need to be found in materia, like black or holy.

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Re: Cloud Strife and Thor vs. Kharn the Betrayer and Lobo

Post by mojo » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:32 am

and the weapons were complete shit, no argument there. but aerith used holy to cast holy, not the black materia. that was meteor. holy was the white one. the one that wasn't even close to strong enough to stop meteor.

most of this stuff should have been simply spelled out for us. it's ridiculous for any game to require multiple playthroughs just to have some understanding of it's key points. the fact that even after multiple SEQUELS in different forms, there are still unanswered plot questions, is just stupid.

for instance-
1. why and how did aeris and zack maintain their conscious minds inside the lifestream? even if we give aeris the benefit of the doubt and say she needed to stop sephiroth by using holy, that certainly doesn't explain why she's still around in advent children. and zack, what? is it possible that being exposed to jenova cells and lifestream as cloud and zack were allows this to happen? we should know this already.
2. where the fuck did red xiii get those puppies? people say 'well they must have been wrong about him being the last of his kind'. yeah, except we just take that as a given that he is. it fucks up the story to just say 'oops, my bad, we were wrong'. my favorite theory is that they simply cloned red xiii. but again, it would have taken two seconds to tell us.
3. did sephiroth actually die when he was thrown into the lifestream by cloud, or was he simply floating around down there, healing his body and absorbing lifestream? we know you can live through extended submersion, cloud did it twice.

and, you know, that's just right off the top of my head.

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Re: Cloud Strife and Thor vs. Kharn the Betrayer and Lobo

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:16 am

mojo wrote:and the weapons were complete shit, no argument there. but aerith used holy to cast holy, not the black materia. that was meteor. holy was the white one. the one that wasn't even close to strong enough to stop meteor.
Yeah sorry I realize I slipped between the black and white one. The Cetra more or less hatred the black one.
It's quite basic here. Black attacks, white protects.
most of this stuff should have been simply spelled out for us. it's ridiculous for any game to require multiple playthroughs just to have some understanding of it's key points. the fact that even after multiple SEQUELS in different forms, there are still unanswered plot questions, is just stupid.
I don't think anyone understood much of what was going on the first time they played FF7.
Notice that Crisis Core, when it starts to get close to the FF7 plot, also begins to be weird in cut. For one, I had forgotten that Cloud and Zack had been kept inside mako vast for four years. If you don't remember that, in the game, when Zack gets out with the help of what he thinks is Angeal, and then rescues Cloud, and finally return to Nibelheim to see it entirely rebuilt (Shinra trying to bury all traces of what took place), you have nothing that indicates that time has passed aside from a minor haircut change to Zack, which you actually notice later on as it's pointed out. Simply put, you do get the impression that between the showdown with Sephiroth and then Hojo's team picking both guys for experiments, and then their escape from the Mansion, no time has passed.
for instance-
1. why and how did aeris and zack maintain their conscious minds inside the lifestream? even if we give aeris the benefit of the doubt and say she needed to stop sephiroth by using holy, that certainly doesn't explain why she's still around in advent children.
Well, the Cetra could talk with Planet. You know, if Sephiroth, spawn of Jenova, could stick inside the Lifestream, there's obviously something special about those people that's been going on since 1997.
With Dirge of Cerberus, we see that a special weapon (Omega) from the planet can actually suck up all the Lifestream and transport it to another world. Obviously, extra-terrestrial beings and those with a special relation to the Lifestream (so would Jenova, then) and some may merge minds to some degree with the Lifestream. Lifestream, by default, does keep trace of souls.
But I'm just speculating here.
and zack, what? is it possible that being exposed to jenova cells and lifestream as cloud and zack were allows this to happen? we should know this already.
Well, clearly the Jenova cells are like a trick card here. Jenova obviously has a capacity to sit in Lifestream and retain consciousness. A product of Jenova (like Sephiroth) can do so and even surpass Jenova in some ways.
So exposure to those cells will, logically, allow a soul to stick out.
The Planet itself seems to have some kind of consciousness, as exposed with what happens to Genesis and the summoning of Minerva, a rather benevolent being.
2. where the fuck did red xiii get those puppies? people say 'well they must have been wrong about him being the last of his kind'. yeah, except we just take that as a given that he is. it fucks up the story to just say 'oops, my bad, we were wrong'. my favorite theory is that they simply cloned red xiii. but again, it would have taken two seconds to tell us.
That or he found a chick and got puppies. Red XIII was a normal creature which Hojo fiddled with, giving it increased lifespan.
This would probably be passed down to its infants.
3. did sephiroth actually die when he was thrown into the lifestream by cloud, or was he simply floating around down there, healing his body and absorbing lifestream? we know you can live through extended submersion, cloud did it twice.
It seems, from what I collected, that his body was dissolved, but his mind remained and he learned, and rebuilt a body.
and, you know, that's just right off the top of my head.
For one, the whole Vincent Valentine completely flew above my head. I never understood the "plot" about that guy.

One last note. The advantage with the existence of things such as Omega and Jenova and its relation to Meteor, there's quite a huge mystery about Jenova's kind and why it came to Gaia.
There's a whole untold story there, and I wouldn't be surprised to see, in the next decade, a whole new arc, prequel or sequel, about either something related to Jenova still lurking in space, or some other world from which Jenova came, one which might have had its own Lifestream.

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