4 Minbari Sharlins and 2 whitestars vs the SSD

[Admiral Breetai]

frankly I'm not really sure the Minbari can win this due to having absolutely pathetic durability showings for their ships..but to say their weaponry cannot rip into SWU ships after what I've seen in the toons? and in ep3? silly

[User1555]

Exactly. This is why I put the survivability of the Sharlins as being low, even in the case of a minbari 'victory'. Any chance of the Sharlins surviving rests entirely on the number of nials that the Minbari fleet can field to hold off the TIEs. We have evidence from points of departure that Sharlin's can hold at least nine Nials. I don't think that there is much question that the Minbari fleet is capable of dishing out considerable firepower between it's complement of 42 fighters, the 4 Sharlin's and the 2 whitestars. It does not appear to be entirely outside the realm of possibility for them to disable or destroy the SSD but their ability to survive the counterattack by the SSD and its fighters is very much in question.

[Admiral Breetai]

I mean i think the size of the SSD gives it a win..it can take a bigger badder beat down but mind you jump point tactics and all

[Lucky]

We see that SW weaponry being used on droids numerous times throughout the series, and we see unshielded hits to the rears of Y-Wings, X-Wings, as well as the completely unshielded Snowspeeders, TIEs and ATSTs. We see the amount of damage that an asteroid can do to a Star Destroyer and TIEs and what happens when a TIE collides with another TIE or the DS trench. We see what happens when an unshielded A-wing hits the unshielded bridge of the SSD and what happens when an ATST gets hit with a log.

If SW materials were great at stopping kinetic energy, we wouldn't expect logs, asteroids, etc to destroy their vehicles so easily. If they were astoundingly resilient to energy based weapons such as blasters and turbolasers, then how come an ATATs guns don't seem to do much of a better job vs snowspeeders then they do against snow? How come R2D2 can take a hit from a TIEs blasters/turbolasers and have it do comparable damage to what a stormtroopers blaster does to him in RoTJ?

All engineered objects with unknown properties.

An AT-ST's own guns are in the mega-joules range when it blows up trees

You have yet to provide sources on the show for either B5 being more heavily armed then other earthforce ships or for the 200 MW figure.

General Franklin stated in "GROPOS" that the station had enough firepower to take on a warship after they upgraded the defenses with pulse cannons, interceptors, and mine launchers, and we see Babylon 5 is indeed more then a match for a warship.

In "Racing Mars" Ivanova threatens ships with a 200 megawatt pulse cannon.

As stated prviously, you have not given a source for this figure. Even if it was stated that the PD guns were 200 MW, you would have to provide evidence that this was referring to the quad-barrel turret and that the figure was per second, and not per shot.

We went over this in a different thread you know, and I gave you all this information.

Point Defense guns = the interceptors

Anti-capitalship weapons = pulse cannons and mine launchers.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... eGrid3.png
We know the quad barreled guns are not interceptors so they have to be pulse cannons

Ivanova stated the 200 megawatt weapons were pulse cannons.

watt |wät| |wɑt| |wɒt| (abbr.: W)
noun
the SI unit of power, equivalent to one joule per second, corresponding to the power in an electric circuit in which the potential difference is one volt and the current one ampere.

A 200 megawatt weapon will fire 200 mega-joules in one second. That means: 200 mega joules divided by the number of pulses fired in one second = joules per-pulse.

Again, you have to provide evidence that ALL of the turrets fire 200 MW per second, and that it is not per second, or only a specific turret they are referring to.

There is no evidence of there possibly being more then two models of pulse cannon, and given this is Ivanova speaking she is likely talking about a big gun

It looks more like 5. Regardless, you are ignoring numerous hits from starfuries. Also of note is that you see that the Primus shoots down at least one of the shots from the station in close range. Again, despite being corrected on this, you continue to hold this claim even when evidence points in a another direction. The Primus was hit with a massive strafing run from the starfuries after those 5 or so hits from those turrets. One of the large fires we see on the Primus right before it blows is on its port side, where the strafing run hit. The other fire on the starboard engine we do not see get hit from either the starfuries or the turrets.

The Star fury only attack the left side of the Centauri warship with no noticeable effect, but no matter where Babylon 5 hits it breaches the hull in a few hits. It is only after Babylon 5 blast the bleep out the ship that the Star fury make a second strafing run. The red orange flame s are hull breaches. There can only be fires if the ship is venting atmosphere.

Where does the Centauri ship shoot a bolt fired from Babylon 5?

You are assuming that all of that snow is flash vaporized. When the shots hit the snow, we see a lot of snow and smoke get kicked up. We have no proof that the snow was wholly vaporized, flash or no.

Actually I'm thinking that the energy needed could be less then it takes to vaporize a cubic foot of ice, or it could be more, but the ice/snow has to be vaporized instantly by the bolt otherwise it will just refreeze. To get the explosions, and clouds of steam we see you need to apply at least tens of mega-joules at least, and other people have reach similar results.

We never see any of these guns being used. We see turbolasers being used on capital ships over coruscant, and these seem to have large-ish explosions, but then again, so do shots from vorchans. This doesn't seem to be particularly impressive by B5 standards.

How do you know that? We only see shielded ships made of unknown materials being shot in a vacuum with weapons that are technobabble. The effect of the battle looking less impressive could just mean far superior defenses in Star Wars to Babylon 5. The problem with Sci-Fi is you can't assume a material is like any thing we have have now.

The asteroids in ESB also annihilate into nothing when colliding with other asteroids or SD bridges. the lack of derbies can easily be explained away as a lack of Special effects expertise or attention to detail. Note that we see fighters fragment into nothing on several occasions in the OT, typically with TIEs but also with rebel fighters, irrespective of the firepower being used on them, and other times there is clear debris. When we see asteroids get hit from Slave I in Ep II, we see them fragment properly.

You don't want to argue bad VFX in this case since it can work both ways in this case. If you just want to say there are to many unknowns because of questionable visual effect that is fine with me.

As for the TESB bridge town destruction you have to remember that the reactor seems to be directly below the tower, and that there are at least two very power hungry systems at the top of the tower.

You do realize that even just shattering the asteroids in AOTC Slave-I has more firepower then the effective anti-capitalship gun on the extremely heavily armed space station that Babylon 5 is.

[User1555]

All engineered objects with unknown properties.

An AT-ST's own guns are in the mega-joules range when it blows up trees

Right, we know more or less what they are capable of, and how powerful fighterborne and ATAT mounted weapons are in relation to ship armor and mundane materials. There doesn't seem to be any indication that SW fighters, at the very least, are any more durable then their B5 counterparts, or from the mundane materials we see them destroy at other points in the series.

I'm not casting doubt of the firepower of ATSTs, I am just questioning your assumptions that SW must have firepower on such a higher scale, given what we see demonstrated in the show and in the movies.

eneral Franklin stated in "GROPOS" that the station had enough firepower to take on a warship after they upgraded the defenses with pulse cannons, interceptors, and mine launchers, and we see Babylon 5 is indeed more then a match for a warship.

In "Racing Mars" Ivanova threatens ships with a 200 megawatt pulse cannon.

I remember GROPOS, although it really doesn't need to be mentioned considering the times where B5 has held off attacks from raiders, centauri, earthforce, and those red-armored aliens.

I am not familiar with the 200 mw figure, but does Ivonova specify which gun she is referring to? B5 has at least five different weapons on it. This figure could refer to any one of these, and there is no reason to believe that all of these different-looking weapon systems would all be 200 MW.

We went over this in a different thread you know, and I gave you all this information.

Point Defense guns = the interceptors

Anti-capitalship weapons = pulse cannons and mine launchers.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... eGrid3.png
We know the quad barreled guns are not interceptors so they have to be pulse cannons

Ivanova stated the 200 megawatt weapons were pulse cannons.

watt |wät| |wɑt| |wɒt| (abbr.: W)
noun
the SI unit of power, equivalent to one joule per second, corresponding to the power in an electric circuit in which the potential difference is one volt and the current one ampere.

A 200 megawatt weapon will fire 200 mega-joules in one second. That means: 200 mega joules divided by the number of pulses fired in one second = joules per-pulse.

Mia culpa, I mixed up watts and joules. You still have to prove that either all of the guns were 200 mw or that the ones that hit the Primus were the 200 mw ones. You have not proved either. You have not proved that the interceptors are not pulse canons. There are at least three quad-barrel variants. It's silly to assume that all of these are 200 MW. Some of them may be more, some may be less.

There is no evidence of there possibly being more then two models of pulse cannon, and given this is Ivanova speaking she is likely talking about a big gun

When the Centauri attack, we see three different variants of quad-barrel interceptors, in addition to the squashed barrel cannon/interceptor.

The Star fury only attack the left side of the Centauri warship with no noticeable effect, but no matter where Babylon 5 hits it breaches the hull in a few hits. It is only after Babylon 5 blast the bleep out the ship that the Star fury make a second strafing run. The red orange flame s are hull breaches. There can only be fires if the ship is venting atmosphere.

Where does the Centauri ship shoot a bolt fired from Babylon 5?

No noticeable effect? They light up the entire side! The next thing we see the Primus do is explode. B5 is only seen to hit the ship a few times, whereas the starfuries are seen to hit it many, many times. There is no reason to think that the interceptors caused the hull breach instead of the massive strafing run the starfuries did right it exploded. Interceptors don't explain the fires on the engines either, which would be shielded from the station with the hull of the primus. No reason to think that the interceptors caused the hull breach except to give a low protection rating to the Primus and B5 in general. Fact of the matter is, the chronological order of events suggests that the fighters were responsible for its destruction.

I wasn't arguing that the ship's hull was not breached.

The lefthand turret on the Primus (lefthand from the perspective of the primus) can be seen firing while it gets hit by shots from the station and the starfuries. One of the bolts intercepts and destroys a shot at near point-blank range.

How do you know that? We only see shielded ships made of unknown materials being shot in a vacuum with weapons that are technobabble. The effect of the battle looking less impressive could just mean far superior defenses in Star Wars to Babylon 5. The problem with Sci-Fi is you can't assume a material is like any thing we have have now.

You don't want to argue bad VFX in this case since it can work both ways in this case. If you just want to say there are to many unknowns because of questionable visual effect that is fine with me.

As for the TESB bridge town destruction you have to remember that the reactor seems to be directly below the tower, and that there are at least two very power hungry systems at the top of the tower.

You do realize that even just shattering the asteroids in AOTC Slave-I has more firepower then the effective anti-capitalship gun on the extremely heavily armed space station that Babylon 5 is.

No, the VFX argument works one way. EP II was made after EP V, it has more updated VFX. I agree that there is VFX in both B5 and SW that seem to be either lazy or bad. Other examples being the Slave I's sonic mine and the magic 2 megaton nuke that killed the Black Star.

Slave I is indeed more powerful then most ships of comparable size in B5, but it is also something of an outlier, being *The* most powerful SW ship of its size we see in either of the trilogies by far. It really isn't representative of the the abilities of the fighting forces of SW at all. (otherwise why would they need TIE bombers to bombard asteroids instead of just shooting them with TIEs, and TIEs would have been shooting the asteroids while chasing the falcon instead of dodging/ramming the asteroids.)

Even if there was a generator below the tower, that would imply a hull breach caused by the asteroid.

[Mr. Oragahn]

The "magic" 2 MT nuke is well explained as damaging the charged weapon banks.
At 1 km, that would be 666 MJ/m², on an area that's not exactly super armoured iirc.
At 5 km, that's 26.636 MJ/m².
Now a nuke has a lot that gets wasted, but even if only 50% of its energy turn into harmful radiations, that's still 333 MJ/m² for the first case, and 13.3 MJ/m² for the second one.
Besides I think the last nuke exploded very close to the Black Star.
Same ship got its upper fin completely pierce-fucked by a fighter ramming it at a slow speed.
Seems to be in line with the idea that a 200 MW beam weapon would be a threat. That would also work with the idea of the Earth Alliance fighters being a threat to capital ships.
But I suppose that's the lower end of B5.
Still, don't we have the Excalibur testing its main weapon and popping some asteroids with yields equivalent to some terawatts and leaving the ship drained for a while?

[User1555]

Well, I call it 'magic' because the explosion the first nuke creates demonstrates a pretty clear planar shockwave, and burns the lower portions of the black star off in a line, which would seem to indicate that the VFX or writers didn't know how a nuke would react in space and assumed that the damage from the blast could be focused in a slower-then-light planar shockwave, which is why I prefer not to use the damage calculations that assume a spherical distribution of radiation etc. It doesn't behave like any nuke would, in a vacuum or in atmosphere, so I don't really think it is the most reliable method of sizing up B5's weaponry against other settings. This isn't even counting the continuity problems where the three support cruisers that are alluded to being present and destroyed in the incident by sheridin are not present when it is shown on screen.

We do have ample evidence however that ramming is an effective method for countering minbari sharlins (perhaps the best option, for younger races) We see a starfury and a Nova class both effectively ram sharlins, and Sinclair seemed to think it was a valid last-ditch maneuver at the battle of the line. The Nova that rammed the Sharlin seems to have taken less damage from the attack, although they were both destroyed, which would seem to indicate that earthforce armor is stronger, at least where solid objects are concerned.

keep in mind however, that the SSD had its entire bridge destroyed by a ramming maneuver by a fighter, a move that crippled the ship and led to its destruction. It is implied that the SSD's bridge would have been able to withstand the attack if its bridge shields had been up, but there doesn't seem to be much indication that SW is much more resilient overall then B5, when fighter-scaled weaponry can cause enough shield bleedthrough to destroy the shield generators of the SSD, and a collision with a fighter can destroy the unshielded bridge.

On the other end of the scale on B5, we have a Whitestar colliding with the hanger of an Omega destroyer. It would appear that ramming is an effective tactic in both universes, at least as a last ditch maneuver.

The Big gun on the Excallabur seems to be vorlon based-technology, the turrets seem to be improved minbari weapons. If I recall, the vorlon gun vaporizes an asteroid when it is still in the prototype stage, I don't remember what effects it had when it was used against the drakh in the movie, when it was presumably fully operational, but I remember the minbari weaponry one-shotting drakh ships.

[Mr. Oragahn]

I think it more like blasted the asteroid rather than vaporized it.
Also, the SSD may lose its bridge, but it's possible that there's a secondary bridge that would soon pick up control. In space that wouldn't be a problem much, but it was just the fates that at Endor the damn ship veered towards the Death Star.

[User1555]

It's entirely possible that there are multiple bridges on Star Destroyers and Super Star Destroyers in the EU, but in the movies, there is no evidence that I can think of to support the presence of multiple bridges on Star Destroyers. What evidence we do have seems to run contrary to the presence of secondary bridges-one of the bridges in the Hoth asteroid scene gets blown up and we see the hologram of one of the captains disappear immediately after, and of course, there is the executor veering into the death star and exploding. One would think that it's original distance from the DS II would give *someone* with rank time enough to get to a secondary bridge and turn the ship around, but noone did, and the ship was destroyed. If they do have secondary bridges, it does not seem to be standard procedure to have the command staff occupy them during battle or other hazardous situations, or to even have emergency staff on hand in case the main bridge gets hit. The secondary bridges, if they exist, might as well not be there for all the use we see them get in the movies. (kinda like the battle-bridges that Galaxy class ships in ST are supposed to have, I don't think we ever see them used)

[Mike DiCenso]

If there is an auxillary control on the Executor-class SSDs, then I would say that there is a huge weakness on how quickly the command and control functions can be rerouted over to them as the Executor herself takes a rather slow and leisurely dive that last about ten seconds on screen, and might even have been longer considering that the distance between the Death Star and the two fleets was in the hundreds of kilometers, and SSD did not seem to be doing more than a few km/sec in relative velocity. So that doesn't speak too well to their ability to regain control of the ship, assuming that back up facilities do exist.

Now in a deep space battle, far away from planetary bodies of any kind, the SSD could probably get rammed quite a bit and take it, so long as the bridge tower isn't knocked out, and even if it is, the same sort of disaster that befell the Executor won't happen here, though it will ruin the chain of command quite effectively, and probably result in a complete demoralization of the surviving crew.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

Well, I call it 'magic' because the explosion the first nuke creates demonstrates a pretty clear planar shockwave, and burns the lower portions of the black star off in a line, which would seem to indicate that the VFX or writers didn't know how a nuke would react in space and assumed that the damage from the blast could be focused in a slower-then-light planar shockwave, which is why I prefer not to use the damage calculations that assume a spherical distribution of radiation etc. It doesn't behave like any nuke would, in a vacuum or in atmosphere, so I don't really think it is the most reliable method of sizing up B5's weaponry against other settings. This isn't even counting the continuity problems where the three support cruisers that are alluded to being present and destroyed in the incident by sheridin are not present when it is shown on screen.

No, that's not quite true. The video of the Lexington versus the Black Star here. As you can see, there is a bright, intense, and nearly omni-directional blast, then a somewhat flattened shockwave from the mostly vaporized asteroid material. A similar pattern occurs with the second of the two nukes. So, no, while this may not be perfectly accurate to what a large nuke in space would look like, it is reasonable enough that we can apply an omni-directional calculation to it to get a good ballpark figure. Either way, even if we assumed that the Black Star took the blast right poin-blank to the gut, it still doesn't allow for more than a few thousand terajoules of energy a Sharlin can tank.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

The only thing that is flat is the bright lens flare effect. When you look at current TV and cinema stuff, those overdone stretched streaks are all over the place.
The blasts themselves clearly are omnidirectional.

[Lucky]

Right, we know more or less what they are capable of, and how powerful fighterborne and ATAT mounted weapons are in relation to ship armor and mundane materials. There doesn't seem to be any indication that SW fighters, at the very least, are any more durable then their B5 counterparts, or from the mundane materials we see them destroy at other points in the series.

Well there is the fact that Star Wars weapons magically tunnel into the target, and then explode while Babylon5 weapons tend to explode on impact.

Do you think a Babylon 5 fighter could have survived like Luke's X-wing?

I'm not casting doubt of the firepower of ATSTs, I am just questioning your assumptions that SW must have firepower on such a higher scale, given what we see demonstrated in the show and in the movies.

Fighters(Slave-I), and relatively tiny craft(AT-AT) match Babylon 5 warships in firepower.

1 megaton is more then enough to kill a warship in Babylon 5, and Star Wars warships repeatedly trade this kind of energy in beam form. Star Wars has quotes and scenes that shows an average firepower for warships that is near the high end for the younger races. I'm not claiming a massively higher level of firepower for Star Wars. I'm claiming that Star Wars ships can take a massively higher amounts of firepower before they die.

I remember GROPOS, although it really doesn't need to be mentioned considering the times where B5 has held off attacks from raiders, centauri, earthforce, and those red-armored aliens.

I am not familiar with the 200 mw figure, but does Ivonova specify which gun she is referring to? B5 has at least five different weapons on it. This figure could refer to any one of these, and there is no reason to believe that all of these different-looking weapon systems would all be 200 MW.

There is only one model of pulse cannon shown to be mounted on Babylon 5. It has four barrels.. The rest of the guns are interceptors, or mine launchers.

Remember this is Susan "I threaten to throw diplomats into the reactor to their faces" Ivonova we are talking about. The gun is not going to be a small one.

You still have to prove that either all of the guns were 200 mw or that the ones that hit the Primus were the 200 mw ones. You have not proved either. You have not proved that the interceptors are not pulse canons. There are at least three quad-barrel variants. It's silly to assume that all of these are 200 MW. Some of them may be more, some may be less.

I don't have to show there are guns that are never talked about or shown. The four barreled gun is the pulse cannon, and it doesn't matter since every gun Babylon 5 had fired on the centauri war ship.

When the Centauri attack, we see three different variants of quad-barrel interceptors, in addition to the squashed barrel cannon/interceptor.

There are two models of interceptor

There is one model of pulse cannon

There is one model of "mine" launcher

We know what the interceptors look like.
http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/File:DefenseGrid1.png
http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/File:DefenseGrid4.png

We know what the pulse cannons look like.
http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/File:DefenseGrid3.png

That means the large barreled guns must be the "mine" launchers.
http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/File:DefenseGrid2.png

No noticeable effect? They light up the entire side! The next thing we see the Primus do is explode. B5 is only seen to hit the ship a few times, whereas the starfuries are seen to hit it many, many times. There is no reason to think that the interceptors caused the hull breach instead of the massive strafing run the starfuries did right it exploded. Interceptors don't explain the fires on the engines either, which would be shielded from the station with the hull of the primus. No reason to think that the interceptors caused the hull breach except to give a low protection rating to the Primus and B5 in general. Fact of the matter is, the chronological order of events suggests that the fighters were responsible for its destruction.

I wasn't arguing that the ship's hull was not breached.

The lefthand turret on the Primus (lefthand from the perspective of the primus) can be seen firing while it gets hit by shots from the station and the starfuries. One of the bolts intercepts and destroys a shot at near point-blank range.

The Star fury make two strafing runs on the same part of the ship. There is no noticeable damage after the first run, and only after Babylon 5 blasts the bleep out of the ship do the Star Fury have a notable effect on it.

The fighters killed a dyeing beast.

No, the VFX argument works one way. EP II was made after EP V, it has more updated VFX. I agree that there is VFX in both B5 and SW that seem to be either lazy or bad. Other examples being the Slave I's sonic mine and the magic 2 megaton nuke that killed the Black Star.

What magic two two megaton nuke? You honestly can't expect VFX artists to be 100% accurate.

Why harp on what is in-universe realistic fiction. In the Beginning leaves out a lot of information as to what happened because it is a story based on the Earth minbari war, and not actually what happened. Londo could have added Equestria fighting along side the EA, and the story would have been just as accurate.

Slave I is indeed more powerful then most ships of comparable size in B5, but it is also something of an outlier, being *The* most powerful SW ship of its size we see in either of the trilogies by far. It really isn't representative of the the abilities of the fighting forces of SW at all. (otherwise why would they need TIE bombers to bombard asteroids instead of just shooting them with TIEs, and TIEs would have been shooting the asteroids while chasing the falcon instead of dodging/ramming the asteroids.)

AT-AT have comparable firepower to Slave-I by all accounts.

When do TIE bombers destroy asteroids? We see them dropping bombs that cause a very large asteroid have earth quakes in/on the asteroid which would actually be proof of very powerful bombs being used.

We see Star destroyers destroying asteroids with it's medium guns about as easily as the Excalibur does with it's main gun in TESB.

Even if there was a generator below the tower, that would imply a hull breach caused by the asteroid.

You do realize that that large "sphere" below the tower on a Star Destroyer is where the reactor is.

Do keep in mind just how large the tower is.
http://st-v-sw.net/STSWbta.html

[User1555]

Well there is the fact that Star Wars weapons magically tunnel into the target, and then explode while Babylon5 weapons tend to explode on impact.

Do you think a Babylon 5 fighter could have survived like Luke's X-wing?

Sure, they act that way when they don't inexplicably detonate a few meters away from the hull causing zero damage.

The very fact that TIEs are used in the SW universe indicates that unshielded fighters are viable. Obviously not having shielding is going to be a problem, but when TIEs, which seem to be inferior to starfuries on several levels, can shoot down shielded rebel fighters, the shielding thing doesn't really seem like, a big deal, esp considering that the weak weapons of a TIE or a ATAT can take out rebel fighters in one or two shots.

Fighters(Slave-I), and relatively tiny craft(AT-AT) match Babylon 5 warships in firepower.

1 megaton is more then enough to kill a warship in Babylon 5, and Star Wars warships repeatedly trade this kind of energy in beam form. Star Wars has quotes and scenes that shows an average firepower for warships that is near the high end for the younger races. I'm not claiming a massively higher level of firepower for Star Wars. I'm claiming that Star Wars ships can take a massively higher amounts of firepower before they die.

So now it's 1 megaton? You keep lowering the figure, so it's hard to be sure. Please provide evidence of 1 megaton killing a ship. The only 'solid' figure we have is that the Black star was taken out by two 2-megaton mines.

Please provide evidence that SW ships routinely trade this magnitude of firepower. All ground engagements in the movies demonstrate firepower well below this, including ATAT firepower when used against rebel fighters. Considering that r2d2 could survive a hit from a TIEs blasters/turbolasers, not to mention the other damage that the x-wings flown by luke and wedge took seems to indicate that TIE weapons, at the very least, are not much more powerful then ground weaponry, yet can pierce fighter scaled shields.

Slave I is an outlier, as has been mentioned before. Taking the firepower of Slave I and broadly extending it to all craft of comparable size in SW is like taking a Nial and saying that raider deltawings have stealth technology, inertia-less drives, and have 12 beam weapons.

There is only one model of pulse cannon shown to be mounted on Babylon 5. It has four barrels.. The rest of the guns are interceptors, or mine launchers.

Remember this is Susan "I threaten to throw diplomats into the reactor to their faces" Ivonova we are talking about. The gun is not going to be a small one.

I don't have to show there are guns that are never talked about or shown. The four barreled gun is the pulse cannon, and it doesn't matter since every gun Babylon 5 had fired on the centauri war ship.

There are two models of interceptor

There is one model of pulse cannon

There is one model of "mine" launcher

We know what the interceptors look like.
http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/File:DefenseGrid1.png
http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/File:DefenseGrid4.png

We know what the pulse cannons look like.
http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/File:DefenseGrid3.png

That means the large barreled guns must be the "mine" launchers.
http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/File:DefenseGrid2.png

You realize that B5 has 3 different weapons as part of its defense grid that are quad-barreled, right? You still haven't provided a quote or episode for the 200 mw figure, even after all this time, despite routinely asking me to source much more trivial things. The 200 mw figure matters when you attempt to broadly extend the figure to every single weapon on b5, (or alternatively claim that only the 200 mw pulse cannons hit the Primus)

The sources you cited contradict your claims made within the same post. The 'mine launcher' is identified as a 'plasma cannon' on the website. Liekwise, one of the 'interceptors' is identified as a 'twin particle array'. At any rate, all of B5s weapons are referred to broadly as interceptors, and the special effects from either the 'pulse cannons' or the 'interceptors' could be the projectiles we see hitting the Primus.

The Star fury make two strafing runs on the same part of the ship. There is no noticeable damage after the first run, and only after Babylon 5 blasts the bleep out of the ship do the Star Fury have a notable effect on it.

The fighters killed a dyeing beast.

Making stuff up again? We only see the fires on the hull after the last strafing run. That would constitute damage in the eyes of most people.

What magic two two megaton nuke? You honestly can't expect VFX artists to be 100% accurate.

Why harp on what is in-universe realistic fiction. In the Beginning leaves out a lot of information as to what happened because it is a story based on the Earth minbari war, and not actually what happened. Londo could have added Equestria fighting along side the EA, and the story would have been just as accurate.

But the two megaton figure is entirely accurate despite being mentioned nowhere else. In other words, Londo is as accurate as he needs to be to support your arguments, but the moment something comes up that supports my side, he is a senile old coot who is embellishing the story for some kids?

AT-AT have comparable firepower to Slave-I by all accounts.

When do TIE bombers destroy asteroids? We see them dropping bombs that cause a very large asteroid have earth quakes in/on the asteroid which would actually be proof of very powerful bombs being used.

We see Star destroyers destroying asteroids with it's medium guns about as easily as the Excalibur does with it's main gun in TESB.

I never said that they destroyed asteroids. When they *do* use them to attack asteroids, they are completely useless. I was arguing that if TIEs had megaton-level firepower like you seem to be claiming, they wouldn't need to fly around asteroids, and they could have just strafed the one that the falcon was in, instead of using (ineffectual) bombers. Funny how you made the claim that "You honestly can't expect VFX artists to be 100% accurate." for the black star, despite its obvious problems, but when an even more primitive special effect is used for the turbolasers firing on the asteroid (and when there is an example of asteroids colliding and producing a large fireball at another point in the film)-you don't question the special effects of these instances at all.

You do realize that that large "sphere" below the tower on a Star Destroyer is where the reactor is.

Do keep in mind just how large the tower is.
http://st-v-sw.net/STSWbta.html

I see a much smaller asteroid annihilating a star destroyer bridge flush down to the main hull. Most evidence in the movies and in the EU points to Star Destroyers having shield generators in the domes on the bridge, and some of them having an additional dome on the underside of the destroyer (but this model does not have a hanger on the underside) I have no idea what 'sphere' you are talking about.

The only thing that is flat is the bright lens flare effect. When you look at current TV and cinema stuff, those overdone stretched streaks are all over the place.
The blasts themselves clearly are omnidirectional.

If you slow down the blast on the second mine, you can see the shockwave pass behind the BS right before it gets jerked back and explodes. Lens flare usually don't pass behind objects, correct? At any rate, the damage pattern from the first blast is inconsistent with an omindirectional damage pattern, with the prow of the ship effectively untouched, despite being oriented towards the bomb as it detonated. Furthermore, the fact that the Sharlin jerked away from the blast after the lens flare/shockwave hit it would be more consistent with a blast inside of an atmosphere then one in a vacuum. In conclusion? Even if damage wasn't delivered omnidirectionally, the behavior of the black star after it gets hit by the second blast indicates a physical shockwave of some kind.

[Admiral Breetai]

TIE fighters firing off megatons is complete and utter bullshit they dont even have KT level fire power

i mean unless you think r2d2 is as tough as the hulk or something since a head shot point blank from one only blasted off the top of his head