Warhammer 40000 : Nova Cannon quotations, 100% fluff

[Mr. Oragahn]

Good find with the Cadian Blood one. I don't have that book, but I believe I do have "Gray Hunter" around (that's from the Space Wolves books, right?). If I can find it, I'll see if it has anything to say about nova cannons.

Ah cool. I'll have to edit my post about the "Planet Killer" BFG supplement, just to clean it up and add a bit of speculation on what shells do.
I'll also change a few things again to the display system for the head document, and make sure that "mechanism" and "yield" get different enough if they have to remain as separate sections. The reason I removed "type" was because some designs were sufficiently odd that there was no real way to make a quick enough description without going into the details of the design. But the simplicity, if not the clarity at least of other references begs for a "type" section, especially with the "Planet Killer" material.

I'll also point out that the Cadian Blood shell are not true Grav shells, as the later definitely have some limitations like the instability and release of matter that the shells in CB don't display. Perhaps the CB shells are more advanced, but what they seem to do is pull stuff into Lalaland, and that's generally better explained with some Immaterium related phenomenon. The problem being the lack of any description of a typical Warp window opened at the point of impact. Technically, there's not even a single mention of light. So with both light not evading the singularity, but its range being definitely limited in some odd ways, and all of that disappearing from existence, we may be dealing with some odd mix between a vortex shell and grav shell, where time and space are so fucked up that somehow the light emanating from the Warp window can't escape the singularity, even if the singularity has to be tossed into the Warp: basically, in its final moments, the singularity belongs to the Warp, yet any light that comes from the Warp is also sucked in. Perhaps both the Warp fissure and the collapsing gravitational singularity close at the same time, or very close, and as thus, lingering gravitational effects and faint light levels make it appear like there's no bright flash.

Constraining the light, matter and even gravitons to some fixed radius seems to be a far more advanced variant of the mechanism that enables some plasma/vortex grenades to have a fixed disintegration range.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Temporary, until I get a look at the entire source. Originally provided here.

The nova cannon on the prow of the Constant was wreathed in coils of superheated gas as it charged. The emerging xenos ship seemed aware of the threat, rotating rapidly with main engines flaring to push it out of the weapon’s path. Chunks of jettisoned surface clattered off it as its bulk shifted sideways, but it was too large for quick or subtle manoeuvres.

The nova cannon fired. The Constant’ s engines fired to compensate for the immense recoil. The projectile was hurled from the barrel, streaking towards the alien ship on a column of burning light.

The shot slammed into the upper hull of the crescent ship. The energy of the blast flashed so bright the craft was like a second sun, the nova cannon’s power discharging in every direction at once.

Every direction save into the craft. When the glare died down, the crescent ship was intact; its upper surface was scorched and studded with fires, but it didn’t look like it had suffered any serious damage.

For the moment, it is impossible to determine the yield of the weapon. All we know is that there was a massive heat waste.

[Mr. Oragahn]

There will be an update coming within February I guess.
I notice that regarding the four shell types described in Battlefleet Magazine #1, EM and Doppler shells are said to have little physical punch. How could that be if they were fired at close the speed of light?
Another evidence that when combined with the near c fact from BFG, those Nova Cannons certainly fire extremely mass-lightened projectiles.
The behaviour of the black hole produced by a Grav shell is a complete proof of that, as it lingers where the shell exploded -rather hard to do when firing multiton projectiles at near c, considering the obvious problem that momentum represents.

[General Donner]

Hello again, Oragahn!

To be honest, I'd more or less forgotten about this thread. It just so happens, though, I've just re-read "Grey Hunter" last week. Further, I took notes, planning to post a few quotes with commentary, so now that I'm reminded, I can still keep my promise. (If maybe a year or so late...)

The full quote (and, IIRC, all the book has to say about the Nova cannon) goes:

At this range, the Fist of Russ had superior weaponry. Its nova cannon was capable of doing huge damage. Ragnar could tell that their pilot's strategy was to keep as much distance as possible between the two ships and use the Imperial vessel's superior ranged capability to pummel the foe into submission.

For the moment, as far as he could tell, it appeared to be working. Energy bolts chipped away at the screens surrounding the enemy vessel. Whenever they made contact, the shields flared and brightened. Sometimes a pale blue glow spread across the energy barrier like ripples on a pond. Sometimes huge thunderous sparks of energy danced along the side of the heretic ship, turning armour to cherry red, molten slag.

It was a thrilling sight but somehow dissatisfying. This was not how combat should be. A Space Wolf should be in the thick of battle, smiting his foe, not watching the discharge of mountain-shattering energies on a holosphere.

I didn't think this was very specific at first, but thinking on it, we can actually derive a lot of stuff from this.

First, this Nova cannon is obviously different from other ones already quoted here. It fires energy bolts rather than high-velocity warheads (whether explosive or more exotic).

Second, it's noted to be a long-range weapon compared to others.

Third, it provides sufficient energy to melt a not insignificant amount of warship armor through energy shields. (In the same passage we also incidentally note that deep red-hot temperatures are more than amply sufficient to melt said armor.)

"Mountain-shattering energies" I'm not sure how literally we should take it, but IMHO, in any case Krakatoa should suffice for a safe upper limit there? (Ca 200 megatons equivalent, didn't just shatter the mountain, but blew it to kingdom come.)

Fist of Russ I don't know at the moment precisely what kind of ship she was. I don't think the book gave her a class. But she was noted as much smaller than a Retribution-class battleship.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Hello again, Oragahn!

To be honest, I'd more or less forgotten about this thread. It just so happens, though, I've just re-read "Grey Hunter" last week. Further, I took notes, planning to post a few quotes with commentary, so now that I'm reminded, I can still keep my promise. (If maybe a year or so late...)

The full quote (and, IIRC, all the book has to say about the Nova cannon) goes:

At this range, the Fist of Russ had superior weaponry. Its nova cannon was capable of doing huge damage. Ragnar could tell that their pilot's strategy was to keep as much distance as possible between the two ships and use the Imperial vessel's superior ranged capability to pummel the foe into submission.

For the moment, as far as he could tell, it appeared to be working. Energy bolts chipped away at the screens surrounding the enemy vessel. Whenever they made contact, the shields flared and brightened. Sometimes a pale blue glow spread across the energy barrier like ripples on a pond. Sometimes huge thunderous sparks of energy danced along the side of the heretic ship, turning armour to cherry red, molten slag.

It was a thrilling sight but somehow dissatisfying. This was not how combat should be. A Space Wolf should be in the thick of battle, smiting his foe, not watching the discharge of mountain-shattering energies on a holosphere.

I didn't think this was very specific at first, but thinking on it, we can actually derive a lot of stuff from this.

First, this Nova cannon is obviously different from other ones already quoted here. It fires energy bolts rather than high-velocity warheads (whether explosive or more exotic).

Second, it's noted to be a long-range weapon compared to others.

Third, it provides sufficient energy to melt a not insignificant amount of warship armor through energy shields. (In the same passage we also incidentally note that deep red-hot temperatures are more than amply sufficient to melt said armor.)

"Mountain-shattering energies" I'm not sure how literally we should take it, but IMHO, in any case Krakatoa should suffice for a safe upper limit there? (Ca 200 megatons equivalent, didn't just shatter the mountain, but blew it to kingdom come.)

Fist of Russ I don't know at the moment precisely what kind of ship she was. I don't think the book gave her a class. But she was noted as much smaller than a Retribution-class battleship.

Thanks! Do you think the quotation provides all necessary information, or does it need to extended a few sentences up and down?
Don't we have any further descriptions of this weapon?

Anyway, your observations look right on all accounts.
The upper end is far more than enough. St Helens is always a good example of a large "mountain" losing a significant part of its mass.
They speak of "energies", so it's hard to say if the effect is the cumulative result of a barrage from that weapon. The lateral explosion that destroyed mount St Helens in 1980 is rated at 24 megatons of thermal energy, including 7 in blast form.

The superior range is not surprising, it's a staple of Nova cannons as I understand.

I noticed that many shots were fired. Is there a fast recharge or are short-bursts possible?

Was the Nova cannon modified into an energy system? I don't see any description of solid material expelled. If the cannon isn't modified much, we may be dealing with a form of caseless ammunition entirely turned into "energy bolts"; read glowing blob of science fiction plasma I guess. It could be some device derived from a "giant" melta concept.

The way it melts the hull is most curious. Energy arcs that dance along the hull and all that, it's possible that it's some kind of massively electrically charged pulse, such as where an arc meets with the hull, it defeats the resistance of the metal used for this region of armour.
Anyway, it's clearly not just a particle beam where the damage would happen at the point of impact only.

This kind of ammo is absolutely unique. We clearly need more info on that!

[General Donner]

Thanks! Do you think the quotation provides all necessary information, or does it need to extended a few sentences up and down?
Don't we have any further descriptions of this weapon?

No, I do think that's all there is. The space battle isn't really the focus of the book -- they soon close with a Chaos cruiser instead and board it to plant demo charges on its reactor.

The upper end is far more than enough. St Helens is always a good example of a large "mountain" losing a significant part of its mass.
They speak of "energies", so it's hard to say if the effect is the cumulative result of a barrage from that weapon. The lateral explosion that destroyed mount St Helens in 1980 is rated at 24 megatons of thermal energy, including 7 in blast form.

Good points on both counts.

I noticed that many shots were fired. Is there a fast recharge or are short-bursts possible?

Unknown. It doesn't get any more specific than what I've quoted.

Was the Nova cannon modified into an energy system? I don't see any description of solid material expelled. If the cannon isn't modified much, we may be dealing with a form of caseless ammunition entirely turned into "energy bolts"; read glowing blob of science fiction plasma I guess. It could be some device derived from a "giant" melta concept.

That's an interesting possibility I hadn't thought of. Not sure if that'd qualify as "energy" in the strictest sense. But then, the descriptions aren't generally all that that scientifically precise anyway. So, maybe.

The way it melts the hull is most curious. Energy arcs that dance along the hull and all that, it's possible that it's some kind of massively electrically charged pulse, such as where an arc meets with the hull, it defeats the resistance of the metal used for this region of armour.
Anyway, it's clearly not just a particle beam where the damage would happen at the point of impact only.

That might also be some kind of shield interaction, perhaps. One thing I came to think of there was that the Chaos ship's shields might be absorbing the energy of the bolt(s), but faster than they can safely reradiate it. The resulting imbalances from the build-up might create local overloads, with discharges of energy converted into some other form (perhaps related to electricity) being inadvertently released against the ship inside.

That the hull material is completely molten at red-hot temperatures is also interesting, as an aside, if a bit incidental to your thread here. That should mean its melting point is quite lower than that of iron, if we go by blackbody radiation. Which might be useful to know for any melting or vaporization calcs elsewhere.

[Mr. Oragahn]

That might also be some kind of shield interaction, perhaps. One thing I came to think of there was that the Chaos ship's shields might be absorbing the energy of the bolt(s), but faster than they can safely reradiate it. The resulting imbalances from the build-up might create local overloads, with discharges of energy converted into some other form (perhaps related to electricity) being inadvertently released against the ship inside.

That the hull material is completely molten at red-hot temperatures is also interesting, as an aside, if a bit incidental to your thread here. That should mean its melting point is quite lower than that of iron, if we go by blackbody radiation. Which might be useful to know for any melting or vaporization calcs elsewhere.

Indeed. What's even more memorable is that, in the end, a Nova Cannon gets a firepower that only shatters a mountain after an unknown amount of shots. We're a far cry from the planetary hemisphere fisting that's usually claimed for NC firepower. Last but not least, this firepower does indeed bring down an enemy warship's shields.
Do we have more information on that Chaos cruiser about the damage?
I have a section for such details in the ammunition chapter.

Oh my, I also have to add the Rogue Trader : Battlefleet Koronus factoids now! :p

[General Donner]

Indeed. What's even more memorable is that, in the end, a Nova Cannon gets a firepower that only shatters a mountain after an unknown amount of shots. We're a far cry from the planetary hemisphere fisting that's usually claimed for NC firepower. Last but not least, this firepower does indeed bring down an enemy warship's shields.
Do we have more information on that Chaos cruiser about the damage?
I have a section for such details in the ammunition chapter.

I don't think it says much more, beyond the ship still being combat capable and not too badly chewed up. Checking the passage again, I'm fairly sure that cruiser is also the same one they board later on. They essentially ram it and bore into it with a huge drill of neutronium -- "the hardest substance in the known universe" -- and deploy parties of Space Marines on it to destroy it manually.

Oh my, I also have to add the Rogue Trader : Battlefleet Koronus factoids now! :p

What's that one say? I'm not too familiar with the recent RPG releases.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Indeed. What's even more memorable is that, in the end, a Nova Cannon gets a firepower that only shatters a mountain after an unknown amount of shots. We're a far cry from the planetary hemisphere fisting that's usually claimed for NC firepower. Last but not least, this firepower does indeed bring down an enemy warship's shields.
Do we have more information on that Chaos cruiser about the damage?
I have a section for such details in the ammunition chapter.

I don't think it says much more, beyond the ship still being combat capable and not too badly chewed up. Checking the passage again, I'm fairly sure that cruiser is also the same one they board later on. They essentially ram it and bore into it with a huge drill of neutronium -- "the hardest substance in the known universe" -- and deploy parties of Space Marines on it to destroy it manually.

Ha, now they have their a'some nonsensical neutronium?
What's that? The sound of 40K fans squealing?
Too bad Star Wars is the only one not hav... waaaaait, they do have it as well!
Welcome to the club guys!
Neutronium is hard. Neutronium feels good. Mmm.

Oh my, I also have to add the Rogue Trader : Battlefleet Koronus factoids now! :p

What's that one say? I'm not too familiar with the recent RPG releases.

Oh boy, erm, the whole book is very cool to look into if only for the fluff thing. There's plenty of details on the weapons, although the types are different from the ones described in typical Imperial books. I'm not sure if this lack of tight consistency is willed, I suppose we shall just shrug and chalk it up to rogue blokes having different kind of toys, but in the end it's still detailing weapons meant to go on the vast range of warships, cruiser, grand or small, you name it.
The Nova references are not exceptional but still need to be present there for the sake of completion. I'll have to take a look at the whole kit assembling system, because the NCs are described as good for cruisers, while other weapons get said to be good for large cruisers, etc. That's a small detail I guess, I can't tell for the moment if "cruiser" on its own means all cruisers, where there's no adjective. It's quite odd because I thought that, although being rare and cumbersome, NCs were generally mounted on the biggest ships. Actually RTBF is really choke full of information that's totally relevant to vs debates, but it's on the low end of the scale. Mind you, if you've read several threads I started, you'll notice that they won't be at odds with many books and codices in fact.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Just a lil' bump to tell you that I'm finishing some other work and when it will be done, I'll refresh my txt file to get a new batch of material posted there. I notably have to summarize the information from the Battlefleet Magazine, at least.