BattleStar Pegasus vs a Venator Star Destroyer...

[Praeothmin]

Who wins, and why?

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

I did this on SB.com.

in the CGI Clone Wars we have another episode in space wherein a Venator rams at a moderate speed a TF battleship (the flagship of the local squadron), it was fully ready (so shields are likely up) and the impact assures the destruction of both ships.

Which is simular to what happened with the end of the Pegasus when it rammed a cylon basestar, and obviously the Pegasus is much more massive and without shields.

We have another engagement between Venators and TF frigates in atmosphere (the episode where SBDs are dropped from the frigates and land on the Venators), where explosions are nowhere nuclear. Both fleets were exchanging a crapload of fire btw, and not taking enemy ships down quickly.

In comparison, even the old crippled Galactica can tank a rain of such shots let alone the Pegasus.


However ultimatly i gave it to the Venator due to the advantage shields give.

[Mike DiCenso]

Moved since it involves a BSG vs SW scenario.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Well, since here was nothing firm with the SW movies, and since TCWS really nerfed the warships' shields and firepower close to low kiloton levels at best, now even shields don't make much of a difference, easily putting a Venator in the range of the firepower the heavier Battlestars can ditch. With Pegasus which can tank double digit kiloton nukes on hull-contact, and possibly quite more, she may even have a day tanking fire from a Venator.
Besides, I wouldn't like to be on the Venator now with the kind of forward firepower Pegasus has.
Plus Cain.

[Mike DiCenso]

This raises a question for Praeothmin; who is in command of the Pegasus at time of this engagement? Is it Commander Cain, Colonel Fisk, or Lee Adama? It makes a big difference in the morale and motivation of the crew, as well as how competent the tactics employed by the Pegasus in the fight.

Also, along that same line, who's in command of the Venator? A Jedi general... Admiral Yularen...Captain Tarkin? This also makes a difference in how well the Venator fights.
-Mike

[Admiral Breetai]

this is bad..isn't it? I mean in terms of a massive SW downgrade

I mean seriously..a single combat modified runabout could likely vape the colonial fleet with relative ease..to think a venator now would struggle with an BS and it be legit..yeesh

[Praeothmin]

The Pegasus is under the command of Lee Adama, and the Venator under the command of Anakin Skywalker.

a single combat modified runabout could likely vape the colonial fleet with relative ease..

Not really, no.
Sure, if you only use the highest showings for ST, but if you use the average showings, no.
While the Vipers wouldn't be able to hurt it, the BattleStars' weapons would...
Don't forget in DS9 when 900MW took down a Runabout's shields...

Plus, from the Pegasus ramming incident at the start of season 3, I always got the impression that these ships are much more solid than any SW or ST ships...

[Lucky]

Sure, if you only use the highest showings for ST, but if you use the average showings, no.

Average showings?

While the Vipers wouldn't be able to hurt it, the BattleStars' weapons would...

What weapons does NBSG have that could get through the navigational deflector?

Don't forget in DS9 when 900MW took down a Runabout's shields...

You mean the technobabble beam that caused the Runabout to magically fall out of orbit, and did little to no damage?

[General Donner]

this is bad..isn't it? I mean in terms of a massive SW downgrade

I mean seriously..a single combat modified runabout could likely vape the colonial fleet with relative ease..to think a venator now would struggle with an BS and it be legit..yeesh

What's to do, when what used to be the best scifi franchise has been turned into kids cartoons?

I must have close to a hundred SW books at home. I literally came that close to throwing the lot away when I watched the first bit of that retarded CGI cartoon. VS debates and all that, but much worse, it lacks all sense and taste.

[Admiral Breetai]

Not really, no.
Sure, if you only use the highest showings for ST, but if you use the average showings, no.
While the Vipers wouldn't be able to hurt it, the BattleStars' weapons would...
Don't forget in DS9 when 900MW took down a Runabout's shields...

I'm not going by highest yields i'm going best consistent speed feats shown in the series just based off that and nothing else being able to run around be faster then anything we saw from nubsg and just pepper fire on the ships

sort of like when The Runner took on Thanos only y'know with a vastly different end (ie the speedster not getting owned) speed kills and a runabout should be quick enough to do it

conversely I would never have made the same comments regarding Sw ships prior to this series

[

What's to do, when what used to be the best scifi franchise has been turned into kids cartoons?

to be fair that's specifically because of the Eu Lucas movies paint a vastly different picture one..certainly less powerful mind you not nearly as frail as the toon series

]I must have close to a hundred SW books at home. I literally came that close to throwing the lot away when I watched the first bit of that retarded CGI cartoon. VS debates and all that, but much worse, it lacks all sense and taste.

Lucas I think wants to cater to a new generation of fans and thus is moving from "OMG technical aspects and calculations" to "rule of cool and fun" which is sort of where he started off any ways..and are the EU novels really that drastically effected any ways? the impression I got is they never cared about being accurate power level wise to higher canon..so things shouldn't change that much if you enjoy that aspect of the universe

[General Donner]

to be fair that's specifically because of the Eu Lucas movies paint a vastly different picture one..certainly less powerful mind you not nearly as frail as the toon series

Lucas I think wants to cater to a new generation of fans and thus is moving from "OMG technical aspects and calculations" to "rule of cool and fun" which is sort of where he started off any ways..

Granted. But the first three movies were much more "rule of cool" than "rule of silly", unlike the prequels and especially the cartoon. I don't care overmuch about calcs, but I do get irritated with stuff that's monstrously stupid or inconsistent .. like much/all of the cartoon. And the style the Universe is portrayed in is just wrong to my OT/EU-shaped sensibilities.

and are the EU novels really that drastically effected any ways? the impression I got is they never cared about being accurate power level wise to higher canon..so things shouldn't change that much if you enjoy that aspect of the universe

The original EU was an inconsistent mess some of the time, but the WEG writers at least tried to keep up some semblance of consistency and verisimilitude. The novel authors rarely gave a damn, but more often than not, after a coupla years there'd be an RPG sourcebook that retconned the worst outliers more into line with the "overall" timeline.

That doesn't happen anymore, since WEG's gone and Lucas Licensing's got taken over by EU "inclusionist" fanboi who want every obscure trivia EVAH!!! referenced in every other book. That, and since someone decided the damn cartoon's "higher canon" than standard EU, it can't be retconned to fit with the two decades' worth of established backstory.

Essentially, they're throwing out the established, often at least decent writing that established the universe in favor of the SW equivalent of Kim Possible and The Mystic Knights of Tir Na Noog.

And with that lengthy rant, I fear I've strayed far off topic, so I'll leave off here. Though if anyone wants to bash the CW cartoon in other threads, I'm all ears.

[Admiral Breetai]

Granted. But the first three movies were much more "rule of cool" than "rule of silly", unlike the prequels and especially the cartoon. I don't care overmuch about calcs, but I do get irritated with stuff that's monstrously stupid or inconsistent .. like much/all of the cartoon. And the style the Universe is portrayed in is just wrong to my OT/EU-shaped sensibilities.

oh I agree with you about the way its portrayed inconsistencies suck from a vs debate perspective sure, i also don't like the cgi animation style at all they should of gone with Bruce Tim's style or maybe a little anime influence but the CGI just looks blocky and awful i mean I don't know if you remember invasion Amerca..but it came out in the late nineties..and it had better cgi elements..hell reboot and Beast master is the same quality..they should of been able to do better

but I also understand why they're doing it a good example would be the WWF/E where they have downgraded from the series and dark stuff of the mid 90's early 2000's to the kiddy rated PG cartoonish stuff they used to do in the late seventies to early 90's

and the reason for that is and when you have a franchise like that or like Trek and Wars you need to lure newer generations to the fanbase..branch out trek did this by doing a bay-esque bruckheimer like reboot for teens and young men and women lucas is looking to nab preteens teens and kids...to get them hooked now

the live action series will be geared more towards guys like us and in ten years the bulk of the guys effort will shift back

but yeah I agree with you kinda TLDR aside from a business perspective I see what they're doing..mind you I've had trouble watching the series because of how badly animated it seems and the writing

dooku and mace and Yoda have been portrayed awesome though

The original EU was an inconsistent mess some of the time, but the WEG writers at least tried to keep up some semblance of consistency and verisimilitude. The novel authors rarely gave a damn, but more often than not, after a coupla years there'd be an RPG sourcebook that retconned the worst outliers more into line with the "overall" timeline.

oh really? it was really bad in the early days? see I started reading the tales of the jedi comic series then got into the comics then some of the novels..through that I've largley missed out on the older books

That doesn't happen anymore, since WEG's gone and Lucas Licensing's got taken over by EU "inclusionist" fanboi who want every obscure trivia EVAH!!! referenced in every other book. That, and since someone decided the damn cartoon's "higher canon" than standard EU, it can't be retconned to fit with the two decades' worth of established backstory.

while I agree that this can be frustrating and it seems that they've done a major clean up effort. As a comic (marvel and Dc) fan I can tell you that while having ascended fanboys in control can also lead to catastrophic disaster and franchise killing

Look at anything Joe Quesadas done to spiderman or anything Leobs written since his son died..and you get a picture of how dangerous a demented fanatic type fan can be with executive power

in Leobs case he literally single handed killed marvels Ultimate line with his wank

Essentially, they're throwing out the established, often at least decent writing that established the universe in favor of the SW equivalent of Kim Possible and The Mystic Knights of Tir Na Noog.

that sounds...evil when you put it that way I mean kim possible was kinda cool..for a kids show but the mystic knights bit I remember that..mother of god..I'm now officially offended that they;d do that to SW if it's really that bad

And with that lengthy rant, I fear I've strayed far off topic, so I'll leave off here. Though if anyone wants to bash the CW cartoon in other threads, I'm all ears.

I think the discussion is worth the side tangent though and since the bosses haven't officially raised hell yet

I will say this though I favor the venator for it's TL's energy weapons in BSG seem unheard of although the problem it;s facing is fighter spam

the Galactica has sick flack capacity (even though its silly space ships having flack) a Venator does not..and if a Raptor or a couple can hurl off a few nukes..then its crunch time

[Mr. Oragahn]

this is bad..isn't it? I mean in terms of a massive SW downgrade

I mean seriously..a single combat modified runabout could likely vape the colonial fleet with relative ease..to think a venator now would struggle with an BS and it be legit..yeesh

What's to do, when what used to be the best scifi franchise has been turned into kids cartoons?

I must have close to a hundred SW books at home. I literally came that close to throwing the lot away when I watched the first bit of that retarded CGI cartoon. VS debates and all that, but much worse, it lacks all sense and taste.

I understand that. At least the Kotor era is far more fun. Have you watched the two movies for the MMO? They're bloody awesome.
The cartoon is truly too embarrassing. I couldn't be bothered to check beyond season 1. Stupid things such as people and bots unable to shoot each other at 10 meters and the super empty senate, and more of Jar Jar, are really just too much to stomach.

@Admiral Breetai

Why the crap has Star Trek slipped into that thread?
Now Praeothmin may have to cut this thread.
Oh buggers, since everyone does it...

What's the maximum energy the Runabout can produce before being out of its best fuel?
Because the Colonials, you know, they have like Twelve major planets, several colonies and bases, armouries full of nukes and punchy missiles, and right before the holocaust, there were at least 75 Battlestar Groups, with Valkyries being smaller carriers with missile swiveling launchers, and Berserkers, escort ships armed up to the chin. Plus as seen in "Daybreak", the turrets on Galactica can fire projectiles at speeds above 5.1 km/s at full power. The Runabout guys would have to be cautious not getting too near them guns.

and the reason for that is and when you have a franchise like that or like Trek and Wars you need to lure newer generations to the fanbase..branch out trek did this by doing a bay-esque bruckheimer like reboot for teens and young men and women lucas is looking to nab preteens teens and kids...to get them hooked now

There's a difference between a new generation and aiming directly for kids.
A new generation, that's current fans who bring their kids past a certain age, who will themselves become fans and so on. It's like thinking Corrida should suddenly become pussyfied to cater to the teletubbies audience.

[sonofccn]

I have to concure, a single runabout I don't think can take on the entire fleet and win. She'll put up a fight and take more than her wieght class in blood but in the end she's going down. Now maybe if it was a Connie...:)

[mojo]

breetai for god's sake don't say you haven't read the thrawn books.

and imo the entire eu = rule of cool. i don't think it's any more or less of a mess than it ever has been. if it's a cool idea, it goes in. if it's boring or makes the jedi and sith look less cool, then regardless of logic or reason, it's out. and i have no problem with that.