SGVerse the weakest universe ever (Official from Gateworld)

[Mith]

Of course, knowing the fact that Wright and co didn't really like the more edgy style imposed by Showtime

Please forgive me but I'm not sure what you mean by SG-1 seasons 1-5 being "edgy". The show was funny, entertaining, a great hoot but it was a fairly light hearted "adventure town" style show with limited interconitunity, which is nothing wrong, instead of the more brooding or "shocking" style shows which earn the moniker "edgy".

Now as to second guessing the folks who are paid to do this with my lowly and unsupported opinoins well... <rant> I'd have kept the Priors and ditched the peasent folk, Origin's ultimate goal is to convert each believer into a Prior which takes decades to centuries to achieve through mental discipline, and while keeping the whole worshipping the Ori thing have it questionable if the "gods" are really listening or if the Priors are merely keeping the pilot light on because that's all they know. I'd also make them more manipulative b*stards pulling strings to achieve thier ends rather then a retread of saving the galaxy.

I'd also kept the gua'uld as (one of) a weekly threat but degraded them from unstoppable titans to something closer to highwaymen with former systemlords piddling around in a banged up ha'tack or something raiding lower tech planets for basic resources. </rant>

Just my thoughts.

No, the Priors and the Ori being 'uber bad guys' should have been shot down immediately. The reason for the Ori being bad guys is retarded; they're gods. That doesn't mean they can't be the series antagonists, but the idea that this was 'rawr! Evil religion!' was what killed it from the start. The Goa'uld had a complex society that explained why they acted the way they did; they're parasites that are designed to inhabit other species and that just formed their culture off the bat.

The Ori should have been an imperalist force that actually truly did care about people or humanity in general. The only difference is that they feel that they should, to a degree, interfere with mortals. This would put them in opposition to the Ancients, but we wouldn't need all this bullshit about them having to be nerfed for it to work.

The Priors should have been the leaders of a great and rich society that was blessed with many wonderful technologies and things--that on the face of it was presented as magic and such, but was technology given to the Priors by the Ori. The Priors should be on a mission of assimilating the rag-tag human societies in the Milky Way by making their lives better. What would have made them a threat is if they also decided that the Goa'uld, who have so long abused humans, should be eradicated to the last--and that the Asgard, who were holding many socieities back and did jack shit to help many other species, should be held liable and no longer allowed in a "human" galaxy.

The conflict between the Priors and Earth would have been SGC's desire to remain seperate. This would not only go against what the Priors want--but they'd also note that SGC and many other world nations keep such new technologies and knowledge secret and therefore let the world suffer evils that could be averted through open communication and seek to remedy that.

The Prior warships should have been stronger than Earth ships, but weaker than Goa'uld ships, but also much more numerous. The Asgard, who were already nerfed in the beginning to keep from doing much, would still be stuck on the sidelines. In addition, the Priors should have been more knowledgable about Ancient technology; they understand how to use gates and other such technology much better. In fact, it would have been very interesting if they could have hacked the stargate network in the MW galaxy and effectively cut entire planets out of the loop, presenting a new threat to SGC, who would then be forced to rely on their one or two ships for transport.

While SGA was going, this threat could have been presented later in the series, as the Priors were given a holy crusade by the Ori to eradicate the Wraith as part of a quest of vengence for what they did against the original Atlanteans. The Wraith themselves would be presented as a more...complex culture who have heroes and villians. With each faction having different beliefs and interactions with humans.

For example:

Hive #1: Straight out bad guys and opportunists who believe that humans are no more than cattle and should serve them as such. Very conservative. Were once the power house hive during the ancient war and still remain a rather powerful force, though obviously diminished.

Hive #2: Almost as amoral as the first hive, but with a desire to exceede their biology with the technological. Therefore, they desire to take Atlantis and any remaining ancient technology they can find. This would allow for this hive to serve as a secondary villian towards Atlantis, but also serve as a foil for the first hive, who would want to destroy humans with little to no regard.

Hive #3: The third hive would be similar to the Goa'uld in that they use humans as servants and slaves. They treat humans as a second class and act as gods or ascended beings of greater importance. Human colonies willingly sacrifice themselves for these wraith, in return for food and supplies that the wraith can provide.

And so on.

Thus, later when the Priors come to destroy the danger and cleanse the species, they would face opposition from Atlantis because some hives aren't outright bad people--even if they consider them barbaric or a threat. Hell, some hives might have even discovered ways to feed without it being on humans (but as humans are far more efficient food sources, are weaker and smaller than other hives). The Priors however, don't care even if all the wraith were to repent; they comitted genocide against humans and have been exploiting them or have exploited them. They must be cleansed.

As for SGU--it had a horrible first half of a season. One or two episodes were good, but I lost all interest. I simply did not care for the stupid fucking drama of a few tween-like adults, even if I really liked the actors. The writing was shit and I stopped watching it.

[PunkMaister]

Yes, with the power creep, the writers have virtually sterilized their own universe off any interesting aliens. I remember that the rumours for the SGA movie had the Tau'ri find a weapon of mass murder or some kind, specifically tailored against the Wraith, and they could unleash it to "free" the galaxy. At that point, I and other people who were very critical of the show and its moral values "looked" at each other and just wondered if they were serious with that crap. I figure they can't picture anything but a silly exit where the Tau'ri have to win, even if it means spin doctoring a mass genocide into a noble human act.

Are you serious? Dear God I'm glad the movie did not materialize then, I'd throw the script and start over....

[User1555]

Well to be fair, SG drops the ball quite often when it comes to ethics. Selling Apophis to the devil Goa'uld to be tortured for all eternity, killing everyone on the prison planet, The Atlantis guy taking advantage of some guy's guilt and feeding him to their captive wraith. Lots of stuff like that happens which never gets referenced again, it's part of the problem the two series had where there was little continuity between episodes.

I am of the opinion that we never would have had to deal with the priors being handled so bad if they had done the goa'uld right in the first place. There was a lot of overlap between the two factions in purpose, goal, and procedure. in many ways the Ori were a reset button, an attempt to bring back what the Goa'uld should have been. There were some parts about the ori that I did like, for one, they were consistently portrayed as being a threat-their soldiers ships and leaders were always more powerful then the tau'ri. The problem was that they had none of the personality or factions that the goa'uld had. Even the Wraith were not one faction. In many ways they wee more faceless then the replicators.

[sonofccn]

In comparison to the later stuff under the prime of SciFi, it did have that edgy thing, albeit little of it, but it had it. And it begun with the full frontal nudity which was nothing cheap at all. The plots were more mature. "The Devil You know" and the sacrifice the female Tok'ra had to do to get away, the accidental/murder of a journalist to preserve the Stargate program, etc. There was a darker and more mature spin, globally, either in the writing style or the ideas, and not the emo-dark-vampire-cut-my-veins stuff. There were more ideas, more intelligence, more diversity. That's not huge amounts of edgeness, but it can still be felt if you're paying attention and a long timer.

Well I'll agree those earlier seasons had some "snap" to them I'd simply would have called it decently written but I can see where your coming from. Sorry if I sounded obtrusive but generaly to me "edgy" is "emo dark" or "bold" by doing something everyone else has already done but yeah I see what you were refering to now.

No, the Priors and the Ori being 'uber bad guys' should have been shot down immediately. The reason for the Ori being bad guys is retarded; they're gods. That doesn't mean they can't be the series antagonists, but the idea that this was 'rawr! Evil religion!' was what killed it from the start. The Goa'uld had a complex society that explained why they acted the way they did; they're parasites that are designed to inhabit other species and that just formed their culture off the bat.

Guys using religion as an excuse to be mean to other people is a bit of the motif of Star Gate however. Also this may be the first time I've had anyone say the Goa'uld were complex, colorful yes, but not complex.

The Ori should have been an imperalist force that actually truly did care about people or humanity in general. The only difference is that they feel that they should, to a degree, interfere with mortals. This would put them in opposition to the Ancients, but we wouldn't need all this bullshit about them having to be nerfed for it to work.

The Priors should have been the leaders of a great and rich society that was blessed with many wonderful technologies and things--that on the face of it was presented as magic and such, but was technology given to the Priors by the Ori. The Priors should be on a mission of assimilating the rag-tag human societies in the Milky Way by making their lives better. What would have made them a threat is if they also decided that the Goa'uld, who have so long abused humans, should be eradicated to the last--and that the Asgard, who were holding many socieities back and did jack shit to help many other species, should be held liable and no longer allowed in a "human" galaxy.

Well to each his own but it sounds like your pushing them beyond well intentioned extremists into the series actual good guys.

The conflict between the Priors and Earth would have been SGC's desire to remain seperate. This would not only go against what the Priors want--but they'd also note that SGC and many other world nations keep such new technologies and knowledge secret and therefore let the world suffer evils that could be averted through open communication and seek to remedy that.

Ah the evils of freedom...seriously through I'm not sure how this bypasses the power seep/powercreep issue they had in the originally. You still have gods with an evil empire battling Earth. I'm still seeing cop out deus ex machina in the future.

The Prior warships should have been stronger than Earth ships, but weaker than Goa'uld ships, but also much more numerous.

To be fair since thier split off from the ancients their ships should be spiffy which is why I favored making them nearly died off so they don't have the numbers to build those spiffy ships and curbstomp everyone in fifty seconds flat.

fact, it would have been very interesting if they could have hacked the stargate network in the MW galaxy and effectively cut entire planets out of the loop, presenting a new threat to SGC, who would then be forced to rely on their one or two ships for transport.

Okay that kills the concept of the whole show. Without them it isn't stargate its...star trek in the 21th century.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Yes, with the power creep, the writers have virtually sterilized their own universe off any interesting aliens. I remember that the rumours for the SGA movie had the Tau'ri find a weapon of mass murder or some kind, specifically tailored against the Wraith, and they could unleash it to "free" the galaxy. At that point, I and other people who were very critical of the show and its moral values "looked" at each other and just wondered if they were serious with that crap. I figure they can't picture anything but a silly exit where the Tau'ri have to win, even if it means spin doctoring a mass genocide into a noble human act.

Are you serious? Dear God I'm glad the movie did not materialize then, I'd throw the script and start over....

Yep, that was the plan, and I'm not even sure they dropped that since the SGA movie still officially remains in limbo. Well, so said the guys who have now moved to make TV Transporter. *sigh*
Good riddance, M&M (the equivalent of Trek's B&B if you wonder).

Now I'll talk a bit about Aurochs' points.

Well to be fair, SG drops the ball quite often when it comes to ethics. Selling Apophis to the devil Goa'uld to be tortured for all eternity,

That's precisely the stuff of earlier SG-1. Mind you, it either was that, or having Earth taken by Sokar. It was particularly hard to stomach in that Jackson knew he was bullshiting Apophis' host into thinking everything was going to be better. The hell yeah.
In recent SG-1, you can bet your hat they'd have tried to find a way to get rid of the symbiote while saving the host or at least allowing him an honorable and peaceful death.
Besides, it was Aldwin, on the behalf of the Tok'ra, who secretly brought the doomsday weapon. Teal'c didn't even know, and tried to stop him, but couldn't.

The Atlantis guy taking advantage of some guy's guilt and feeding him to their captive wraith.

That's "Common Ground", which I and some others saw as a true stellar episode in a cesspool, a gem, really. Aside from SGA's first season, the really good episodes could almost be counted on the fingers of one hand, and far outnumbered by the boring stupid fillers and the truly abysmal plots of some others. The new hobby almost was to weekly laugh at the plot of your new SGA episodes for they were so mediocre. It was hard to understand how people could be paid to direct, write and accept that.
So yes, Common Ground was an exception, and one of the very few episodes I could recommand along those which involved McKay's sister (in fact Hewlett's real sister, quite good). It was very clear that they were making a huge effort to increase the quality of the plot when miss Hewlett would be playing in the episode. Considering that her brother was the best actor of the show, I think you can understand what would have happened if she had been given absolute turd.

Lots of stuff like that happens which never gets referenced again, it's part of the problem the two series had where there was little continuity between episodes.

Well, since Todd was reused a lot later in the show, you can call that a reference. As for the reference thing, it's actually rarely done. Kara Thrace citing the names of the dead pilots in nBSG was something which was memorable and moving. It only made SGA look poor, with the overdone ceremonial for Beckett.
In the first season, Weir had covered the deaths of personnel in a much better way in "Letters from Pegasus". But then again, season 1 was a very good start and in my opinion has always been DVD worthy. It became terrible after season 2's "Intruder" episode. Everything fell apart, and you could see there was no vision. Ronan "2 braincells" Dex was added, Teyla became even more useless (and the Athosians completely disappeared, the writers losing a great opportunity of turning Atlantis into a refuge for many people from plenty of planet and thus adding lots of potential for internal struggles and stories), McKay's humour was increased a notch (like, almost clown level at times), the Wraith Queens kept dying even quicker, Ford was largely ignored and even dropped out of the scripting despite being an interesting character (they couldn't handle the drug thing? oh sure, unless it's for rape), and Beckett moved from secondary character to first character, obviously because he actually was a good secondary character, evidenced by the fan support (although I generally don't pay attention to that) and the fact that obviously, he was used to bring emotion and empathy; so TPTB promoted him. Only to waste him with such nonsense as the retrovirus and kill him later on with the sploding tumour, only to bring him back as a clone... but who's kept in the fridge, literally. I mean, how come the writing get more pathetic?? It was a sad thing.
The main cast totally sucked balls, safe for McKay. Sheppard was another O'neill with bits of Solo and hair gel for good measure, and all other characters were totally unemotional and totally transparent. Weir was acting weird and written in a way where she gave way too much leeway to Sheppard.
It was so annoying that for people liking better TV SF, it's the secondary character who supported the show, from Zelenka to Grodin, from Cadwell to Lee, etc.
Really, it's a pity that SGA is a show that lasted so long, because it could be used in writing schools as an example of everything gone wrong about a show.
Oh and did I speak of the zero exotic world syndrome, for a show called Stargate and implying some mind blowing adventure by foot?
However, the same old medieval village, that you had a lot. Not even a single alteration was made to the architecture from one episode using that set to the next one.

I am of the opinion that we never would have had to deal with the priors being handled so bad if they had done the goa'uld right in the first place. There was a lot of overlap between the two factions in purpose, goal, and procedure. in many ways the Ori were a reset button, an attempt to bring back what the Goa'uld should have been. There were some parts about the ori that I did like, for one, they were consistently portrayed as being a threat-their soldiers ships and leaders were always more powerful then the tau'ri. The problem was that they had none of the personality or factions that the goa'uld had. Even the Wraith were not one faction. In many ways they wee more faceless then the replicators.

Yes. When you have average writers, you get neither interesting protagonists nor antagonists.
Doci? Used what? Thrice, once to give a speech to Jackson by being a host to an Ori, the next time to spoke a line to a Prior, and finally in AoT to weep because he saw the light.
Adria? Poor Baccarin, such a nice lady, but unfortunately it was her younger incarnation which was better, since creepier. Actually, it would have been very good to keep a kid as the leader of the Ori troops, barring you could find the right actress. Creepy little girls are creepy. Especially when hellbent on domination or extermination at the galactic scale.
Priors? Nada. Smoking man was smoked. Edgy Jackson magically transformed back into a good guy. Gerak. Fucking Gerak, who was quite awesome, soon disappeared once he became a Prior, just to smoke himself away literally. The only Prior who was given lines and could be considered a recurring main or high tier secondary evil guy was the dude from Ver Egen.

In comparison to the later stuff under the prime of SciFi, it did have that edgy thing, albeit little of it, but it had it. And it begun with the full frontal nudity which was nothing cheap at all. The plots were more mature. "The Devil You know" and the sacrifice the female Tok'ra had to do to get away, the accidental/murder of a journalist to preserve the Stargate program, etc. There was a darker and more mature spin, globally, either in the writing style or the ideas, and not the emo-dark-vampire-cut-my-veins stuff. There were more ideas, more intelligence, more diversity. That's not huge amounts of edgeness, but it can still be felt if you're paying attention and a long timer.

Well I'll agree those earlier seasons had some "snap" to them I'd simply would have called it decently written but I can see where your coming from. Sorry if I sounded obtrusive but generaly to me "edgy" is "emo dark" or "bold" by doing something everyone else has already done but yeah I see what you were refering to now.

No, no pb. I didn't know you used edgy in such a pejorative way. So yes, it's that "snap" which wholly disappeared, safe for a very few times in SG-1 when for example they gave people the pleasure of seeing a chained lady burn to death. Back then, at the very beginning of the Ori arc, the Ori seemed dead serious, but it mainly was the act of a Prior, and there was room to flesh the Ori out and even show some divergence among them.

In terms of power, it didn't make sense either. The Ori hit a glass roof. They could have ships so powerful it wasn't funny, being built by peasants under the guidance of Priors I guess, but their budget suddenly tightened on the number of ships they could build (despite being seen building at least four or five on a single planet, with peasants only). It came down so hard on them that they couldn't build defenses around their supergates. No satellites, only one ship to survey the process at best.
Why no shield or iris over the supergate? I remember watching a spoof video about that on youtube, showing Ark of Truth brutally ending as SG-1 hit an iris once arriving at the supergate in the Ori galaxy. They had not even fired a probe as far as I can remember, just in case! Does it mean the writers forgot about a procedure established since 1994 and respected down the the letter since then?

And yes, "religion is bad booyah" is getting tiring, and that comes from an atheist. That's why the rather open take on religion by nBSG was refreshing. I know many people didn't like it, but I found it very nice, especially since you can't always say it's religions' fault if people are acting like total dicks. So I have no problem with the Ori being religious, and perhaps even extreme in their ways, if only they had been given variants, fleshed out, and given a better motive than a mere endless thirst for faith-o-rade.
It's even a sad thing because at some point in the show, I remember that there's been an Ori trooper or some Prior, or perhaps Adria, saying that it was the Ancients who were lying. Damn the hopes that the writers were actually going to deliver some massive shift to the story! All shattered. No, the Ori remained evil bad guys. With the Ancients seeding life in a large galaxy, I think there were reasons for the Ori to actually believe their old brothers were only biding their time to attack them in return (even if plotwise, it would have been hard to make it a solid motive for war since millions of years it a bit too much to wait in order to spread population across a galaxy, when you can actually seed it and did it twice).

Anyway, all those lost opportunities. It hurts.

[Admiral Breetai]

mr O whats this about being disrespectful to the fanbase? is that true? these guys are that messed up?

to the topic: They really screwed the pooch with the snakes honestly, you could of had this vast multi Galactic Empire with a diverse bit of characters and what have you, the idea of Ra holding a huge empire together with advanced warships and the bulk of all the minor and mid tier Snakes under his banner keeping guys like Apophis Sokar and Anubis in check

I would of explored the origins of the Gua'old have them as a secret of NIHM style experiment by the ancients to both save themselves from dying off and as a reservoir for their knowledge sort of like a living database, explaining the vastly long life span (Tokra symbiots seem to naturally last thousands of years) which would explain the genetic memory among other things as well, with a group of them escaping either by taking over an ancient host or by other means with two groups forming Apep and Atoks (two characters from the rpgs) wanting to make use of their new found intelligence and abilities to conquer and dominate with another sect wanting revenge on the ancients and then to try and clean up their vast cosmic mess and maybe out do their creators with eventually a balance of the two in Ra's generation of snakes.

it would of gone a long way to explaining why the Asgard and the other old races and the ancients didn't just bull doze the Gua'old say have it that the alliance of four great races is slow to act to and project its forces over the vast distances required to effectively fight the snakes and the Ancients themselves those few who remained either dying out or ascending with the others sort of compelling their allies into a war to clean up one of they're own messes and the resentment showing in how little is actually done.

one could of kept them in the show by having either Ra's empire being a vast network of alliances between unaffiliated systems and minor and major snakes to keep out the really unsavory elements the mad tyrants like Anubis and Sokar or the really ancient Gua'old like Kronus (hey he took the name of an elder god after all) when the SGC start knocking over other snakes it makes what remains of Ra's empire extremely unstable and open to external conquest. they'd be slow moving though I suppose since allot of their holdings would be spread over primitive cultures with few very heavily populated industrial worlds and what have you

with one of the main reasons why they despise mankind so much is maybe remembering the ancients and detesting our potential

a side plot maybe have Apophis or Sokar's ultimate goal to be to find a way to kill off the ancients

any ways I'm sure my idea sucks but at least its not what we got for a all those seasons

as to the ori debate the problem with going the whole "evil Christian analogy route" is your benevolent highly scientific/new age mystical guru "good guy " group was a monstrously neglectful arrogant vindictive and petty race who left a legacy of problems for every one else to deal with laying around...so my thing is yeah the ori where horrible..but honestly the heavy handed lecture they gave us through them back fires when your alternative is a sect of the same species that honestly does not deserve to continue to exist

[Mr. Oragahn]

mr O whats this about being disrespectful to the fanbase? is that true? these guys are that messed up?

Pretty much, yes. The writers had stuck themselves in a corner by accepting to pander to the fans to begin with. They started that with the return of Daniel Jackson, and it kept getting worse.
By the time of SGA, the not very humble Mallozzi was tired of the BS - he had a high esteem of his own writing, mind you - and thus began the Lemmings affair. He only reaped what he sowed, didn't he?
The other attack against the fanbase happened much later, in 2009, after the cancellation of SGA and during SGU. He once again went against the fans on his blog, as you can see here. Lovable how someone calling one of the female characters Lieutnant Rack or McBoobs is an idiot. Sorry if the addition of Miss Bikino to the cast was so transparent, fellas! It seems that some fans were not that stupid after all...
So even if I can't agree with fans who think SGA was a quality show, I can certainly side with them on the fact that they were those who gave TPTB a chance to earn so much money. If TPTB didn't want to have to deal with them, perhaps not starting to pander to them would have been a good decision. You can have a taste of the angriness in the comments to this article.
Anyway, Mallozzi's posts on his blog on his contributions to articles on Gateworld, about the production and criticism, have always been how M&M's writing was just so awesome (that's largely permeating through their interventions as they were reported on Gateworld). Still, this awesomeness...I guess that's why they couldn't keep Torri Higginson on board?
If only Stargate could have had a spinoff called "Atlantis Legal"!

You can read more of the stuff in my SGU thread. Oh and that's not the end. If you want to see TPTB putting the blame on the fans, go here. Technically, they're not totally wrong, but if they had not fucked up with SGA to begin with, SGU would have not suffered like it did, because it could have at least counted on a larger transfer of the fanbase.

to the topic: They really screwed the pooch with the snakes honestly, you could of had this vast multi Galactic Empire with a diverse bit of characters and what have you, the idea of Ra holding a huge empire together with advanced warships and the bulk of all the minor and mid tier Snakes under his banner keeping guys like Apophis Sokar and Anubis in check

From the movie, ID4 has bits of what the sequel might have been. McKay wrote five books, which gave another spin to the movie, more in line with what it was. The other gods weren't much more than humans with big fancy toys (aside from the feline warriors of Sekhmet). Hathor would come, after recovering one of Ra's ships, the Barque of a Million Years or something of that vein, with a super weapon capable of blast melting an asteroid like Ceres.
The universe in the books continuity is much more empty, and thus much more enigmatic than a show with the aliens of the week. In that, it's much closer to a new Battlestar Galactica than Trek or SG-1/SGA/SGU.

I would of explored the origins of the Goa'old have them as a secret of NIHM style experiment by the ancients to both save themselves from dying off and as a reservoir for their knowledge sort of like a living database, explaining the vastly long life span (Tokra symbiots seem to naturally last thousands of years) which would explain the genetic memory among other things as well, with a group of them escaping either by taking over an ancient host or by other means with two groups forming Apep and Atoks (two characters from the rpgs) wanting to make use of their new found intelligence and abilities to conquer and dominate with another sect wanting revenge on the ancients and then to try and clean up their vast cosmic mess and maybe out do their creators with eventually a balance of the two in Ra's generation of snakes.

Funny thing, that's pretty much a personnal fanfiction I ran with in mind. I'd loved to see heroes find a lost towering Ancient lab in some jungle. The whole thing would have had a nice ALIEN/ALIENS spin on it, mixed to the usual body snatcher thing. We know the Goa'uld can take control of other creatures, so it would have also been a great "fight the beasts" moment.
Considering how Teal'c symbiote protected him from the plague, I thought it was a very good idea to have the Ancients be linked to the Goa'uld. It would also make much more sense as to how they got hold of the tech. It would make the pond symbiotes from the Unas planet some cousins who were not so lucky.

That said, having looked at the RPG stuff, I must say that some stuff was good, but other bits left me puzzled. For one, I would not make Apep and Apophis two separate entities. I'd merely make Apophis a "greekened" version of Apep, and thankfully, this would easily be explained with stuff from the show: the evidence is quite all over the place, if only for what The Palace of Chulak looked like, plus the ruined small mausoleum SG-1 walk in front of.

I kinda agree with the rest you talked about. I had similar ideas as well, and have actually penned quite an extensive background for a fanfiction that would have been similar to that, without breaking the current show's continuity. The point is that there's a LOT to tell, eventually to gently correct, to make the universe much more compelling.

with one of the main reasons why they despise mankind so much is maybe remembering the ancients and detesting our potential

I don't think they despise us much. If anything, they find us very convenient and acted the same with the Unas. They simply don't give a crap about their hosts' lives. Humans are convenient for how easier they are to repair with the sarcophagi ... which obviously lays the ground for an obvious earlier human-ancient-sarcophagus relation which was kinda hinted at with the Resurrection Cube episode.
Isn't it cool how it's actually meant to be a perfect device, but would be not so perfect when used on humans? Driving them insane? Just like the sarcophagi sort of do, even if the Goa'uld managed to greatly improve upon this device (it's said that the sarcophagi exploit the base tech of those cubes). Humans being a sort of cheap knock off of Alterans, it would make sense for the Goa'uld to seek Alteran hosts... if only for the fact that Alterans had those nifty powers.

any ways I'm sure my idea sucks but at least its not what we got for a all those seasons

Oh no it doesn't suck. There's lots of potential there.

as to the ori debate the problem with going the whole "evil Christian analogy route" is your benevolent highly scientific/new age mystical guru "good guy " group was a monstrously neglectful arrogant vindictive and petty race who left a legacy of problems for every one else to deal with laying around...so my thing is yeah the ori where horrible..but honestly the heavy handed lecture they gave us through them back fires when your alternative is a sect of the same species that honestly does not deserve to continue to exist

Yes, the whole picture deserved to be given more complexity. It was particularly easy to see where they could go with Origin. Imagine that the Ori proposed to get the galaxy rid of the Replicators and the Goa'uld. Let's imagine that they did protect worlds from these, that they grew crops and so on, and only asked faith in exchange.
Making them genocidal warmongers was stupid from the get go, and made the Ori look so retarded, considering that they'd surely antagonize a lot of people that way. For one, Teal'c's arguments would have been terribly weak if the Ori had been much more peaceful and not so two dimensional in their preachy plans of mass conversion. That's why I was absolutely disappointed with the whole nice Prior thing they had penned for Jackson. The worst of that is that it worked wonderfully! Jackson was really using his powers to bring good to people. But why did he do that? Just to stick out from the other Priors and be noticed by SG-1 sooner or later. All that good and benevolent stuff was nothing more than a devious plan to actually get Jackson to wipe out the Ori. The writers could just not, for a moment, give the religion side a break and stop painting them like mundicidal killers.

[Admiral Breetai]

Pretty much, yes. The writers had stuck themselves in a corner by accepting to pander to the fans to begin with. They started that with the return of Daniel Jackson, and it kept getting worse.
By the time of SGA, the not very humble Mallozzi was tired of the BS - he had a high esteem of his own writing, mind you - and thus began the Lemmings affair. He only reaped what he sowed, didn't he?
The other attack against the fanbase happened much later, in 2009, after the cancellation of SGA and during SGU. He once again went against the fans on his blog, as you can see here. Lovable how someone calling one of the female characters Lieutnant Rack or McBoobs is an idiot. Sorry if the addition of Miss Bikino to the cast was so transparent, fellas! It seems that some fans were not that stupid after all...
So even if I can't agree with fans who think SGA was a quality show, I can certainly side with them on the fact that they were those who gave TPTB a chance to earn so much money. If TPTB didn't want to have to deal with them, perhaps not starting to pander to them would have been a good decision. You can have a taste of the angriness in the comments to this article.
Anyway, Mallozzi's posts on his blog on his contributions to articles on Gateworld, about the production and criticism, have always been how M&M's writing was just so awesome (that's largely permeating through their interventions as they were reported on Gateworld). Still, this awesomeness...I guess that's why they couldn't keep Torri Higginson on board?
If only Stargate could have had a spinoff called "Atlantis Legal"!

You can read more of the stuff in my SGU thread. Oh and that's not the end. If you want to see TPTB putting the blame on the fans, go here. Technically, they're not totally wrong, but if they had not fucked up with SGA to begin with, SGU would have not suffered like it did, because it could have at least counted on a larger transfer of the fanbase.

that's hilarious and also sad and kind of petty but at the same time it seems that fans do have some what a role to play in the taking of blame for the fowl ups of SG

From the movie, ID4 has bits of what the sequel might have been. McKay wrote five books, which gave another spin to the movie, more in line with what it was. The other gods weren't much more than humans with big fancy toys (aside from the feline warriors of Sekhmet). Hathor would come, after recovering one of Ra's ships, the Barque of a Million Years or something of that vein, with a super weapon capable of blast melting an asteroid like Ceres.
The universe in the books continuity is much more empty, and thus much more enigmatic than a show with the aliens of the week. In that, it's much closer to a new Battlestar Galactica than Trek or SG-1/SGA/SGU.

that would of been really cool and emmerich is supposedly planning a sequel but doubt it would ever get that far, do you have any links to a place where i can DL the novels?

Funny thing, that's pretty much a personnal fanfiction I ran with in mind. I'd loved to see heroes find a lost towering Ancient lab in some jungle. The whole thing would have had a nice ALIEN/ALIENS spin on it, mixed to the usual body snatcher thing. We know the Goa'uld can take control of other creatures, so it would have also been a great "fight the beasts" moment.
Considering how Teal'c symbiote protected him from the plague, I thought it was a very good idea to have the Ancients be linked to the Goa'uld. It would also make much more sense as to how they got hold of the tech. It would make the pond symbiotes from the Unas planet some cousins who were not so lucky.

they seemed to have set it up with allot of clues either unwittingly or other wise and then never ever elaborated on it at all which was tragic and really bad writing but then again they fodderized the snakes so

your idea of the space jockey looking lab is really awesome something abandoned for a hundred thousand years fossilized remains of dark monstrous animals and Ancient remains some with tell tale scars in certain areas..maybe some serious damage like crags in the ground and what not (ancient mind powers at work) showcasing some massive desperate fight by two sides maybe some dead Unas as well

maybe find Unas offerings and primitive cave painting like depiction of the titanic struggle

see i dunno if thats what you where going for but the realization that the Gua'old where just another in a long line of ancient fuck ups that plagued the cosmos and the reaction of the Team which could maybe set up later for a moment where Jack Confronts his little gray friend Thor about this calling him on it with Thor basically in typical Thor fashion brutally honestly but formally copping to the epic douchebaggary of the ancients..and their role in essentially playing cosmic janitor to them or something along those lines

That said, having looked at the RPG stuff, I must say that some stuff was good, but other bits left me puzzled. For one, I would not make Apep and Apophis two separate entities. I'd merely make Apophis a "greekened" version of Apep, and thankfully, this would easily be explained with stuff from the show: the evidence is quite all over the place, if only for what The Palace of Chulak looked like, plus the ruined small mausoleum SG-1 walk in front of.

well see thats what I don't get the really old goa'uld you'd think would have names like "chaos" "uranos" and "helios" given how roman/Greek Alteran culture seems to be with "apep/Apophis" either being the first to take an Egyptian name or like you said just a variation of the name

there possibilities with Apophis character too like him being one of the last of the old hold outs who wanted a more passive less vicious method of control

I kinda agree with the rest you talked about. I had similar ideas as well, and have actually penned quite an extensive background for a fanfiction that would have been similar to that, without breaking the current show's continuity. The point is that there's a LOT to tell, eventually to gently correct, to make the universe much more compelling.

did you ever write this out? or plan to..either here or FF'net or something I'd love to read it

I don't think they despise us much. If anything, they find us very convenient and acted the same with the Unas. They simply don't give a crap about their hosts' lives. Humans are convenient for how easier they are to repair with the sarcophagi ... which obviously lays the ground for an obvious earlier human-ancient-sarcophagus relation which was kinda hinted at with the Resurrection Cube episode.
Isn't it cool how it's actually meant to be a perfect device, but would be not so perfect when used on humans? Driving them insane? Just like the sarcophagi sort of do, even if the Goa'uld managed to greatly improve upon this device (it's said that the sarcophagi exploit the base tech of those cubes). Humans being a sort of cheap knock off of Alterans, it would make sense for the Goa'uld to seek Alteran hosts... if only for the fact that Alterans had those nifty powers.

there was a fan theory that tried to justify why Alterans looked like us and where genetically compatible why their offshoots seem human in other galaxies and the explanation was that eventually one of man kinds future space craft either deliberately or accidentally ends up hurled back in time into the extremely distant past crash..and either eventually their descendent's evolve into the ancients or they create an advanced society blow themselves to hell loose all knowledge and eventually those descendants become..the ancients..

for one of the older Gua'old to realize this and realize no matter what their survival is tied to man kind and it would explain some of the contempt...but you have a good point from their perspective its very hard to give a crap about what is essentially a watered down version of their former masters

one question that bugged me is why would they not try to take Alteran hosts? the Unas seemed to be their main goal until finding humanity...the Alterans being too degraded genetically to keep alive? or the vast mental powers too much for a Symbiot to handle with out going bonkers?

Oh no it doesn't suck. There's lots of potential there.

going with the rats of NIMH comparison to a speculative origin it'd be interesting to eventually meet one of the first Gua'old a Nicodemus analog maybe a reboot of the Tokra only instead of a dying race have them form a truly symbiotic relationship with the humans..maybe a few systems spread out over large distances and thus despite being a heavily industrialized and advanced sect they're not able to do more then indirect actions due to being so spread out and..cut off?

Yes, the whole picture deserved to be given more complexity. It was particularly easy to see where they could go with Origin. Imagine that the Ori proposed to get the galaxy rid of the Replicators and the Goa'uld. Let's imagine that they did protect worlds from these, that they grew crops and so on, and only asked faith in exchange.
Making them genocidal warmongers was stupid from the get go, and made the Ori look so retarded, considering that they'd surely antagonize a lot of people that way. For one, Teal'c's arguments would have been terribly weak if the Ori had been much more peaceful and not so two dimensional in their preachy plans of mass conversion. That's why I was absolutely disappointed with the whole nice Prior thing they had penned for Jackson. The worst of that is that it worked wonderfully! Jackson was really using his powers to bring good to people. But why did he do that? Just to stick out from the other Priors and be noticed by SG-1 sooner or later. All that good and benevolent stuff was nothing more than a devious plan to actually get Jackson to wipe out the Ori. The writers could just not, for a moment, give the religion side a break and stop painting them like mundicidal killers.

now that's a route you could go..say have the Doci be the equivalent of pope Leo the great stopping the barbarian hordes of parasites at the door..so to speak and creating a sort of..more non insane early Roman Catholic analogy that spreads both education and technology or as you said "let us use your world for resources in exchange we'll protect you and help you rise up all we ask is..you listen to our faith and believe" I mean for a compelling villain you would need to be ruthless and vicious when everything else fails and show them capable of fantastic cruelty just...being smart enough to know some times a kind gesture is better for business

one thing i lamented the tollans had allot of wasted potential imagine some of their colonies becoming more aggressive and imperialistic in the wake of Ra's death and the system lords becoming more and more violent and unstable..with i donno anubis return to the political field being what pushes them over the edge

there was potential there wasted..fantastically

[Mr. Oragahn]

that would of been really cool and emmerich is supposedly planning a sequel but doubt it would ever get that far, do you have any links to a place where i can DL the novels?

That movie was planned, but Emmerich didn't seem to push enough to get it greenlighted. Or perhaps MGM didn't want to allow it. They feared that it could kill the show's storyline.
But now... who knows? It was quite a nice thing because the plot precisely respected the age of the actors. There, right now, it would take about 15 years after the events. But I would not count on it.

they seemed to have set it up with allot of clues either unwittingly or other wise and then never ever elaborated on it at all which was tragic and really bad writing but then again they fodderized the snakes so

your idea of the space jockey looking lab is really awesome something abandoned for a hundred thousand years fossilized remains of dark monstrous animals and Ancient remains some with tell tale scars in certain areas..maybe some serious damage like crags in the ground and what not (ancient mind powers at work) showcasing some massive desperate fight by two sides maybe some dead Unas as well

Alien in mind, but not so much visually speaking, in that the only thing that would be space jokeyish (and I hadn't that in mind) would be bits of Alteran tech that's organic looking, like the head grabbers. I picture a large complex, with some dark flooded rooms, with some symbiotes in some stasis fields for long term storing, and other more normal vials for what we'd guess were used during tests. Clearly some symbiotes would have been driven mad, and some of them would be weak due to the not perfec Lantian stasis (you still age by a few years per millennium). Etc.

maybe find Unas offerings and primitive cave painting like depiction of the titanic struggle

Would be nice. There's lots to write about the Unas. They're very interesting creatures in the show's mytho.

see i dunno if thats what you where going for but the realization that the Gua'old where just another in a long line of ancient fuck ups that plagued the cosmos and the reaction of the Team which could maybe set up later for a moment where Jack Confronts his little gray friend Thor about this calling him on it with Thor basically in typical Thor fashion brutally honestly but formally copping to the epic douchebaggary of the ancients..and their role in essentially playing cosmic janitor to them or something along those lines

Yeah, that would be a good thing. Now put the Ori in that. The Asgards see another Alteran brewed problem, and they go oh fuck, no where we're taking that. Bang!

well see thats what I don't get the really old goa'uld you'd think would have names like "chaos" "uranos" and "helios" given how roman/Greek Alteran culture seems to be with "apep/Apophis" either being the first to take an Egyptian name or like you said just a variation of the name

there possibilities with Apophis character too like him being one of the last of the old hold outs who wanted a more passive less vicious method of control

You hit the problem that this being based on Von Daniken stuff, that is, very steamy, there's no real strong background or more thought put into that.
Yet there are many great possibilities. Perhaps one day we'll see some of that.
I assure you, when you look at the Egyptian poems and tales and stuff from the Books of the Dead, the stories almost write themselves and it's almost a game to frame myths into the Stargate lore. There are several times when you just don't get why the writers and producers never explored a particular story, as it's just screaming how obvious the tie to Stargate is. :)

did you ever write this out? or plan to..either here or FF'net or something I'd love to read it

No, I didn't write any fiction that's readable per se, although in total, all I wrote about the background, characters and all easily weighs nearly a hundred megabytes, which is quite a lot. But I don't plan on ever throwing that on Internet.

there was a fan theory that tried to justify why Alterans looked like us and where genetically compatible why their offshoots seem human in other galaxies and the explanation was that eventually one of man kinds future space craft either deliberately or accidentally ends up hurled back in time into the extremely distant past crash..and either eventually their descendent's evolve into the ancients or they create an advanced society blow themselves to hell loose all knowledge and eventually those descendants become..the ancients..

Never heard of that one but it would have also worked wonders imho.

for one of the older Gua'old to realize this and realize no matter what their survival is tied to man kind and it would explain some of the contempt...but you have a good point from their perspective its very hard to give a crap about what is essentially a watered down version of their former masters

one question that bugged me is why would they not try to take Alteran hosts? the Unas seemed to be their main goal until finding humanity...the Alterans being too degraded genetically to keep alive? or the vast mental powers too much for a Symbiot to handle with out going bonkers?

There are several possibilities.
First, they'd be hiding, or exiled.
Secondly, by having returned to the Milky Way, some may have been infected by the plague again. Well, it's not clear, because in the show it seems that the plague was still there when Atlantis departed, and it seems that the remaining Alterans, who probably populated many worlds, decided to build the device on Dakara and destroy the plague. The Alterans have powers, and they could fight off the plague for some time, but if would clearly tax them.
Thirdly, many died of old age before anyone could find them. Some others ascended.

No matter what, we do know that the Lantians were present in the MW at the same time the Goa'uld were on Earth, and just as weird, the Lanteans returned to Earth. Supposedly they walked through the beta stargate stuck in Antartica, actually the first stargate present on Earth, and possibly not far from an outpost, except that at this time the SGC didn't know that they had to look deeper for more Lantian structures. It's quite possible that there's a lot of stuff around the outpost.

The Alterans left their galaxy tens of millions years ago, and started to seed the MW fifty millions years ago. That would be about around the Eocene on Earth. Back then, the climate was quite better on the land that Antartica was. Picture trees around Atlantis. It's possible the Alterans even geoengineered Terra at that point in time, to make it even better. That said, the fact that they lived on some frozen piece of land in their home galaxy (although it's a very skewed sample from Ark of Truth, I can't believe their civilization was limited to one village on Celestis and one ship) and moved to a not so warm place may give us some clues about their need for colder environments... if such a need existed.

now that's a route you could go..say have the Doci be the equivalent of pope Leo the great stopping the barbarian hordes of parasites at the door..so to speak and creating a sort of..more non insane early Roman Catholic analogy that spreads both education and technology or as you said "let us use your world for resources in exchange we'll protect you and help you rise up all we ask is..you listen to our faith and believe" I mean for a compelling villain you would need to be ruthless and vicious when everything else fails and show them capable of fantastic cruelty just...being smart enough to know some times a kind gesture is better for business

one thing i lamented the tollans had allot of wasted potential imagine some of their colonies becoming more aggressive and imperialistic in the wake of Ra's death and the system lords becoming more and more violent and unstable..with i donno anubis return to the political field being what pushes them over the edge

there was potential there wasted..fantastically

You don't say. But there's still time for that. The Ori are not exactly gone in the sense that there's all their tech, temples and books littering the floors of Celestis and elsewhere, there are the Priors and the Doci, still capable of making more of them, and they're all close enough to ascension to make it with a big of a push.
Plus there's the Lucian Alliance in the MW, and there just needs to be a new/old enemy in the MW to give a boost to this story and let it be fleshed out. Plus the humans of Ori worlds could always argue that they're what's closest to the Ascended people the Jaffa secretly "worship" in their closets. That and the fact that even in the show, at some point the writers had a blast of smart somehow, don't ask, and made it so that Priors may be misinterpreting the Book of Origin, which could open a whole new path as to what the latest but now defunc Ori truly were. It's even more problematic now, because the Jaffa were really interested into apostasy towards Origin, and it's only the true evilness of the Ori that allowed the good guys from preventing Jaffa from mass converting.

But now, let's also think about the possibilities for Earth. Let's just imagine what would happen, right now, if some Origin books made it to Earth. OMG. I think the writers are in such a deep smelly hole that they better reboot or close the franchise altogether, because what's going to happen regarding Earth can only be complicated. I mean, we're talking über edgy stuff here, and that with while having to trade with the real ideologies and corrupted powers of current Earth.
How could they manage a story where more and more humans realize that they can have access to much more, and a very tangible ascension, instead of the tales from Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.? And not only that, but access to technologies which, if the Priors and Doci wanted to spread them, would make humans free of issues about energy, food and illnesses. They'd even know there's something outside, other worlds, and enemies, and the Ori would clearly be capable of protecting humans much more than the lying and secretive SGC/IOA have been thus far.

Oh boy. Oh crap. That's actually so complicated, rich and provocative... anything less than that will only be a cheap cop out.

[Admiral Breetai]

That movie was planned, but Emmerich didn't seem to push enough to get it greenlighted. Or perhaps MGM didn't want to allow it. They feared that it could kill the show's storyline.
But now... who knows? It was quite a nice thing because the plot precisely respected the age of the actors. There, right now, it would take about 15 years after the events. But I would not count on it.

I'd like to see a Human playing god or another member of his race show up and maybe try and gets some revenge..

Alien in mind, but not so much visually speaking, in that the only thing that would be space jokeyish (and I hadn't that in mind) would be bits of Alteran tech that's organic looking, like the head grabbers. I picture a large complex, with some dark flooded rooms, with some symbiotes in some stasis fields for long term storing, and other more normal vials for what we'd guess were used during tests. Clearly some symbiotes would have been driven mad, and some of them would be weak due to the not perfec Lantian stasis (you still age by a few years per millennium). Etc.

that'd work too although the scene would have to be really ominous no?

Would be nice. There's lots to write about the Unas. They're very interesting creatures in the show's mytho.

it'd be nice for those guys to have at least one Clan end up either in the pegasus or some remote corner of the Milky way having advanced technologically and maybe cooperating with earth a bit

[

Yeah, that would be a good thing. Now put the Ori in that. The Asgards see another Alteran brewed problem, and they go oh fuck, no where we're taking that. Bang!

I'd like these guys to survive maybe have a good chunk of them ascend and the rest of the race accept a "downgrade" so they can replenish and revive their species and maybe ask the Nox or Furlings..to watch over they're fleet for a few dozen millennium

with Ascended Asgard basically walking into the ancients paradise and going Viking on them for they're transgression

I mean it's cheap but its fitting

You hit the problem that this being based on Von Daniken stuff, that is, very steamy, there's no real strong background or more thought put into that.
Yet there are many great possibilities. Perhaps one day we'll see some of that.
I assure you, when you look at the Egyptian poems and tales and stuff from the Books of the Dead, the stories almost write themselves and it's almost a game to frame myths into the Stargate lore. There are several times when you just don't get why the writers and producers never explored a particular story, as it's just screaming how obvious the tie to Stargate is. :)

yeah that is true certainly

[

No, I didn't write any fiction that's readable per se, although in total, all I wrote about the background, characters and all easily weighs nearly a hundred megabytes, which is quite a lot. But I don't plan on ever throwing that on Internet.

I was thinking about doing this..since I've already got another fic up on the board though since you seem to have been brain storming this long before I came around I'd like to know..if your alright with it, I mean it'll prolly read like some crappy D list story I'm not that good..but its been in my head for a year or so now

Never heard of that one but it would have also worked wonders imho.

it would of, another one I thought would work really well is why the Furlings aren't around is they got tired of the Ancients BS and either created the plague or just flat out walked out on them..in the middle of they're causing the nox to back out

and the Ancients essentially feeling betrayed and the Asgard pissed that they got stuck with dealing with this crap..essentially went after them

There are several possibilities.
First, they'd be hiding, or exiled.
Secondly, by having returned to the Milky Way, some may have been infected by the plague again. Well, it's not clear, because in the show it seems that the plague was still there when Atlantis departed, and it seems that the remaining Alterans, who probably populated many worlds, decided to build the device on Dakara and destroy the plague. The Alterans have powers, and they could fight off the plague for some time, but if would clearly tax them.

right but the snakes seemed to have been created or become sentient between fifty and two or three hundred thousand years back your describing..events that happened millions of years ago...though I suppose them being in hiding until the alliance..works

Thirdly, many died of old age before anyone could find them. Some others ascended.

or in combat

No matter what, we do know that the Lantians were present in the MW at the same time the Goa'uld were on Earth, and just as weird, the Lanteans returned to Earth. Supposedly they walked through the beta stargate stuck in Antartica, actually the first stargate present on Earth, and possibly not far from an outpost, except that at this time the SGC didn't know that they had to look deeper for more Lantian structures. It's quite possible that there's a lot of stuff around the outpost.

I think they showed up on earth a little bit after Ra's over throw no?

The Alterans left their galaxy tens of millions years ago, and started to seed the MW fifty millions years ago. That would be about around the Eocene on Earth. Back then, the climate was quite better on the land that Antartica was. Picture trees around Atlantis. It's possible the Alterans even geoengineered Terra at that point in time, to make it even better. That said, the fact that they lived on some frozen piece of land in their home galaxy (although it's a very skewed sample from Ark of Truth, I can't believe their civilization was limited to one village on Celestis and one ship) and moved to a not so warm place may give us some clues about their need for colder environments... if such a need existed.

that's interesting

You don't say. But there's still time for that. The Ori are not exactly gone in the sense that there's all their tech, temples and books littering the floors of Celestis and elsewhere, there are the Priors and the Doci, still capable of making more of them, and they're all close enough to ascension to make it with a big of a push.
Plus there's the Lucian Alliance in the MW, and there just needs to be a new/old enemy in the MW to give a boost to this story and let it be fleshed out. Plus the humans of Ori worlds could always argue that they're what's closest to the Ascended people the Jaffa secretly "worship" in their closets. That and the fact that even in the show, at some point the writers had a blast of smart somehow, don't ask, and made it so that Priors may be misinterpreting the Book of Origin, which could open a whole new path as to what the latest but now defunc Ori truly were. It's even more problematic now, because the Jaffa were really interested into apostasy towards Origin, and it's only the true evilness of the Ori that allowed the good guys from preventing Jaffa from mass converting.

would any spin off even touch these issues though?

But now, let's also think about the possibilities for Earth. Let's just imagine what would happen, right now, if some Origin books made it to Earth. OMG. I think the writers are in such a deep smelly hole that they better reboot or close the franchise altogether, because what's going to happen regarding Earth can only be complicated. I mean, we're talking über edgy stuff here, and that with while having to trade with the real ideologies and corrupted powers of current Earth.
How could they manage a story where more and more humans realize that they can have access to much more, and a very tangible ascension, instead of the tales from Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.? And not only that, but access to technologies which, if the Priors and Doci wanted to spread them, would make humans free of issues about energy, food and illnesses. They'd even know there's something outside, other worlds, and enemies, and the Ori would clearly be capable of protecting humans much more than the lying and secretive SGC/IOA have been thus far.

Oh boy. Oh crap. That's actually so complicated, rich and provocative... anything less than that will only be a cheap cop out.

this would be...awesome honestly but probably never get put on screen

[Mr. Oragahn]

I'd like to see a Human playing god or another member of his race show up and maybe try and gets some revenge..

I don't know what they'd plan, but surely the budget would be good enough to allow for some spectacular action. But you know, I've also heard that ID4 was supposed to be said sequel. Among other things, you can see that in the design of the ships, the markings they have on the hulls are exactly those used on Ra's assets, notably his mask, and which became the trademark of the aspect of Goa'uld ships and other assets in the show. But I can't find trace of any proof that ID4 really was a revamp of a Stargate sequel.
In a way, I'm glad it didn't come to fruition.

But it seems Devlin and Rolland had two sequels in mind.
http://blastr.com/2009/10/roland-emmerich-still-gam.php

How much of them they'd put on screen, and avoid treading on the show and, eventually, on ID4 if the rumours are true?

that'd work too although the scene would have to be really ominous no?

Absolutely.
We're dealing with epic scale that Halo had at times. First hte planet where this lab is should be something not trivially thrown to the audience. Then the location of the lab itself should be really breath taking, and there should be a good reason to go there. Then the approach to the lab should be something that indeed takes a bit of ALIEN when the humans approached the derelict, and ALIENS when the space marines walked into Hadley's Hope. If it had to be put on screen, it would be a high budget episode, and could easily start a tensefull mini-arc.

I was thinking about doing this..since I've already got another fic up on the board though since you seem to have been brain storming this long before I came around I'd like to know..if your alright with it, I mean it'll prolly read like some crappy D list story I'm not that good..but its been in my head for a year or so now

All I can promise is I'd look at a summary of it and tell what could fit or not with established Stargate lore, but my input on the creative side of things will be very limited.

it would of, another one I thought would work really well is why the Furlings aren't around is they got tired of the Ancients BS and either created the plague or just flat out walked out on them..in the middle of they're causing the nox to back out

and the Ancients essentially feeling betrayed and the Asgard pissed that they got stuck with dealing with this crap..essentially went after them

Well that's extreme, if not over the top. The Asgards didn't seem to have a tooth against the Alterans.
But I could easily see the Asgards returning to slap us in the face. For long, I hoped that the writers would do something like that, telling us that the Asgards were buying time, so they needed to fake death, and they also gauged us. To them, the Ori were not such a big menace as they indeed had the tools to defeat them.

right but the snakes seemed to have been created or become sentient between fifty and two or three hundred thousand years back your describing..events that happened millions of years ago...though I suppose them being in hiding until the alliance..works

Nothing's fixed so it can easily be "explained" and made to fit. It's not like the writers have set anything in stone much about that period. Plus you can cheat a lot with the symbiotes' life span and the statis pods.
Plus evidence gives the symbiotes lifespans of at least two thousand years, without any help of technology. The evidence is that Egeria, the "mother" of the Tok'ra, was entombed alive in a canopic jar two thousand years ago.
In typical Alteran/Lantean tech, beings will age, at most, at a rate of a few years per millennium (and that's based on the body decay of the Lanteans stuck in VR aboard the greatly damaged Aurora). Say 9 years of true aging per millennium. That means a symbiote can stay at least stuck 222,000 years in such stasis.
We could easily make it fit with the Goa'uld becoming old, and as per the movie, they'd be a dying race, until they find the humans and realize that their bodies are admirably tailored to be used in conjunction with the resurrecting sarcophagi.

or in combat

Indeed. ^_-

I think they showed up on earth a little bit after Ra's over throw no?

Nope. They came back to Earth 10K years ago, at a time the Goa'uld were on Earth. Ra was kicked 5000 years ago, 3000 BC, which corresponds to the age of the 1st Egyptian dynasty. Obviously the humans started to create a civilization out of the vacuum left by the Goa'uld, in-universe.

would any spin off even touch these issues though?

this would be...awesome honestly but probably never get put on screen

I think they could make books about them, but not from the fandemonium group. I'm thinking high profile writers adding to the canon. Yes, those books would have to be canon and, as being books, they could easily touch on more sensitive subjects than a show could.

Besides, considering how SGU is definitely dead as a recurring show (Carlyle signed for a fantasy show's pilot), with the franchise literally in ruins, there are other venues to explore now.

[Admiral Breetai]

I don't know what they'd plan, but surely the budget would be good enough to allow for some spectacular action. But you know, I've also heard that ID4 was supposed to be said sequel. Among other things, you can see that in the design of the ships, the markings they have on the hulls are exactly those used on Ra's assets, notably his mask, and which became the trademark of the aspect of Goa'uld ships and other assets in the show. But I can't find trace of any proof that ID4 really was a revamp of a Stargate sequel.]

the ID4 aliens being a part of Ra's race is very interesting, two branches set off in different directions and find two distinct methods of sustaining themselves one through being a horde of highly advanced barbarians

the other playing god

But it seems Devlin and Rolland had two sequels in mind.
http://blastr.com/2009/10/roland-emmerich-still-gam.php

How much of them they'd put on screen, and avoid treading on the show and, eventually, on ID4 if the rumours are true?

[

from what I understand Emmerichs stance on the series was "an alternate universe that I care very little for adhering to attention too"

so I'd expect he'd completely ignore..it or only draw on certain elements too it or toss a nod here or there

Absolutely.
We're dealing with epic scale that Halo had at times. First hte planet where this lab is should be something not trivially thrown to the audience. Then the location of the lab itself should be really breath taking, and there should be a good reason to go there. Then the approach to the lab should be something that indeed takes a bit of ALIEN when the humans approached the derelict, and ALIENS when the space marines walked into Hadley's Hope. If it had to be put on screen, it would be a high budget episode, and could easily start a tensefull mini-arc.

from what I gathered the Nostromo seemed to run into the derelict virtually by accident until the cyborg reveal towards the end..you could go that way, say by field testing an FTL capable vessel and having them either through NID like sabotage or by sheer accident discovering the planet

although I wonder what comes off better a large downed ancient ship or a huge vast lab complec

All I can promise is I'd look at a summary of it and tell what could fit or not with established Stargate lore, but my input on the creative side of things will be very limited.

keeping within the mythos is important but slaving yourself to continuity can be a hinderence

Well that's extreme, if not over the top. The Asgards didn't seem to have a tooth against the Alterans.
But I could easily see the Asgards returning to slap us in the face. For long, I hoped that the writers would do something like that, telling us that the Asgards were buying time, so they needed to fake death, and they also gauged us. To them, the Ori were not such a big menace as they indeed had the tools to defeat them.

so what them coming back and telling us we completely abused our gifts or something?

Nothing's fixed so it can easily be "explained" and made to fit. It's not like the writers have set anything in stone much about that period. Plus you can cheat a lot with the symbiotes' life span and the statis pods.
Plus evidence gives the symbiotes lifespans of at least two thousand years, without any help of technology. The evidence is that Egeria, the "mother" of the Tok'ra, was entombed alive in a canopic jar two thousand years ago.
In typical Alteran/Lantean tech, beings will age, at most, at a rate of a few years per millennium (and that's based on the body decay of the Lanteans stuck in VR aboard the greatly damaged Aurora). Say 9 years of true aging per millennium. That means a symbiote can stay at least stuck 222,000 years in such stasis.
We could easily make it fit with the Goa'uld becoming old, and as per the movie, they'd be a dying race, until they find the humans and realize that their bodies are admirably tailored to be used in conjunction with the resurrecting sarcophagi.

I thought Symbiotes lived longer and true it did seemed "fixed" in the early seasons but as time wore on

Nope. They came back to Earth 10K years ago, at a time the Goa'uld were on Earth. Ra was kicked 5000 years ago, 3000 BC, which corresponds to the age of the 1st Egyptian dynasty. Obviously the humans started to create a civilization out of the vacuum left by the Goa'uld, in-universe.

so some of them in some regions just submitted to system lord rule then? Ra's royal court seemed to be earth and all major system lords had a small fiefdom in the bosses backyard it seemed

I think they could make books about them, but not from the fandemonium group. I'm thinking high profile writers adding to the canon. Yes, those books would have to be canon and, as being books, they could easily touch on more sensitive subjects than a show could.

that'd be interesting

Besides, considering how SGU is definitely dead as a recurring show (Carlyle signed for a fantasy show's pilot), with the franchise literally in ruins, there are other venues to explore now.

they're probably going to opt for a complete reboot/remake of the series seeing how that's become a trend

and if done right wouldn't be so bad..but you'd have to get new producers and directors none that handled it before should be allowed to touch it now beyond consulting

[Mr. Oragahn]

Two interesting articles below:

The truth about TV ratings, online viewing and sci-fi shows

Why Nielsen Ratings Are Inaccurate, and Why They'll Stay That Way

Don't forget to read the comments.

[User1600]

Yes, with the power creep, the writers have virtually sterilized their own universe off any interesting aliens. I remember that the rumours for the SGA movie had the Tau'ri find a weapon of mass murder or some kind, specifically tailored against the Wraith, and they could unleash it to "free" the galaxy. At that point, I and other people who were very critical of the show and its moral values "looked" at each other and just wondered if they were serious with that crap. I figure they can't picture anything but a silly exit where the Tau'ri have to win, even if it means spin doctoring a mass genocide into a noble human act.

What would you consider then a real "morally correct" solution? I.e. a third option to:

1. genocide Wraith

2. let Wraith keep killing people

What if they discovered some method that they could unleash to maake the Wraith lose their need to feed on humans and be able to feed on more conventional forms of food?

And also, do you think a really good Stargate series has any chance at all of being made?

[User1600]

But above all, what Stargate needs is to leave SciFi. That channel has always kept a blade above the franchise's head, and ever kept dumbing it down. Stargate has never been better than when it was on Showtime, and SG-1 only got to season 10 because its first half simply was that strong.
Of course, knowing the fact that Wright and co didn't really like the more edgy style imposed by Showtime - which is just all too ironic considering what they tried to do with SGU - I wonder if the main problem isn't also some of the powers that be.
Luckily, many are leaving the adventure.

Is it acutally possible though this could be done, and the SG franchise resurrected with a whole new crew, and made a lot better? What would it take for that to happen?