United Federation of Planets vs Flood

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Admiral Breetai
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Re: United Federation of Planets vs Flood

Post by Admiral Breetai » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:26 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote: If the UFP has to torch worlds, knowing them, it may take time for them to do so. However, their more pragmatic allies may not wait that long.
I.
given the magnitude of Federation terraforming tech by the twenty fourth century one thinks the only reason why they don't do this more often is they're morality regarding life wiping once they realize the flood can't be reasoned with and that they represent a race far worse then the borg you can see them doing it

Picard wrote: That is interesting question on its own - how would experience of Flood war change Federation? I imagine it becoming more militant, possibly even more than TOS or post-Dominion War era - still, we have to define what era Federation are we using. I imagined 24th centuy one, but didn't think about exact time period. And it will probably influence their response - while 2350's and 2360's Starfleet might keep trying to find cure for Flood - and I doubt Human Empire-style cure would be easily acceptable for them, beacouse it involves sacrificing large number of genetically-modified people to destroy Flood biomass - I imagine that TOS or 2370's - 2380's Federation commander would just pull off limited-area bombardment or GO24 (depending on scale of infestation) as soon as they realized what is happening on infested world.
it depends on the extent of damage the flood did to the Galaxy at large if the feds where essentially the last hold out then we're looking at a much larger more grizzled more traumatized and aggressive federation-the forerunners would be very nervious indeed

Genetic Engineering sciences FTL (to set up colonies in the milky ways satellite galaxies for example) sciences and proto matter research and terraforming is going to be paramount concerns to cure the flood and if failing that genesis bomb flood worlds and restart from scratch and if failing that flee

I feel bad for the forerunners though

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Re: United Federation of Planets vs Flood

Post by Mith » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:53 am

Yeah...that entire backstory is retarded.

First off, the UFP already has genetic engineering technology. They've had it for over four centuries. Second, this stuff would not be rushed into use. It'd be sitting in a UFP test lab for decades while they safely and practically test it. Hell, this honestly just feels like an episode where some sort of alien mutagen is discovered, mutates a few crewmembers, shows intelligence, then hostile intent, and killed off just as the show comes to an end.

More still, it tells us that the Human Empire of this era had shitty genetic scan. A UFP scientist would have probably of figured out that this was alien DNA and that injecting it into another life form would not be healthy for them--and illegal within the Federation.

The only reason the Flood was allowed to spread was because:

1) Humanity was careless and stupid and greedy.
2) Humanity decided that engaging in wars to replace lost worlds while still fighting the infection, despite this being no more than them seeming to want to keep real-estate high is incredibly stupid.
3) The Forerunners didn't think as to why the Human Empire started to just take entire systems and planets for no apparent reason other than dickery--and rather than try and open negotiations or do some sort of investigation as to why the humans were suddenly becoming so aggressive, they pull a knee-jerk reaction and then decide that because the human government ordered all of this and probably not the majority...they fucked them ALL over, showing that their morality is rather questionable (ie, name one major nation today that would basically bomb the fuck out of an entire nation for the sake of their leaders).

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: United Federation of Planets vs Flood

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:16 am

Mith wrote:ie, name one major nation today that would basically bomb the fuck out of an entire nation for the sake of their leaders.
Israel, easily, but they've been dicks from the beginning.

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Re: United Federation of Planets vs Flood

Post by sonofccn » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:45 pm

Mith wrote:1) Humanity was careless and stupid and greedy
I'll buy the first two but greedy? They appeared to have a desire of profit and improving products to increase the value thereof but I'd hardly call that being greedy. Hell I'd be more worried about guys without profit-motive.
Mith wrote:2) Humanity decided that engaging in wars to replace lost worlds while still fighting the infection, despite this being no more than them seeming to want to keep real-estate high is incredibly stupid
Too be fair they more or less kicked the Flood out of the Milky Way so it isn't like they were locked in a losing war when they decided to go for broke such as it is. As for a reason perhaps they had a high refugee rate and weren't too eager to resettle planets the Flood had already visted, sort of learning thier mistake that started the mess.
Mith wrote:The Forerunners didn't think as to why the Human Empire started to just take entire systems and planets for no apparent reason other than dickery
Is there? I think we can both agree that declaring war right after getting done with a life or death struggle may not be the smartest idea in the galaxy through its better than getting into a land war in Asia :)

Hell from what little can be gleamed from a wikipedia type page the Human Empire may have always been hostile, vicious guys and their attack was a change of scale not scope.
Mith wrote:and rather than try and open negotiations or do some sort of investigation as to why the humans were suddenly becoming so aggressive
How do we know negotiations weren't attempted and what would have been accomplished? Earth wants your worlds you don't want to hand them over.
Mith wrote:they pull a knee-jerk reaction and then decide that because the human government ordered all of this and probably not the majority
? We don't appear to know anything about this group of humans beyond, possibly, them being Imperial. They could be a represenative republic for all that we know and regardless they obviously didn't disdain this Human-Forerunner war enough to dispose the goverment which clearly did so they are guilty regardless. Dear God...I'm defending Xeno actions against humanity...
Mith wrote:they fucked them ALL over, showing that their morality is rather questionable (ie, name one major nation today that would basically bomb the fuck out of an entire nation for the sake of their leaders).
I agree it seems a tad harsh but humanity isn't part of the Forerunner race, more or less, and in the end I can't disagree with them choosing to protect thier people over mine. I mean if it came down to it I'd kick the Forerunner off if it mean saving my species so thier devolving us is a extreme reaction but likely was the "kindest" solution which would keep us out of thier hair.

As to the second part of your statment please define. The US for instance , at least in theroy, would respond to a nuclear strike with one of its own which have a tendency to "bomb the fuck out of an entire nation" and in the past has attempted to cripple enemy infastructure via bombing campaings and would attempt so again in any future war. While more accurate than then the era of B-17s against a rival the sheer destruction of industry, transportation and utilities will not be a pretty picture.

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Re: United Federation of Planets vs Flood

Post by Picard » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:29 pm

Mith wrote:Yeah...that entire backstory is retarded.

First off, the UFP already has genetic engineering technology. They've had it for over four centuries. Second, this stuff would not be rushed into use. It'd be sitting in a UFP test lab for decades while they safely and practically test it. Hell, this honestly just feels like an episode where some sort of alien mutagen is discovered, mutates a few crewmembers, shows intelligence, then hostile intent, and killed off just as the show comes to an end.

More still, it tells us that the Human Empire of this era had shitty genetic scan. A UFP scientist would have probably of figured out that this was alien DNA and that injecting it into another life form would not be healthy for them--and illegal within the Federation.

The only reason the Flood was allowed to spread was because:

1) Humanity was careless and stupid and greedy.
2) Humanity decided that engaging in wars to replace lost worlds while still fighting the infection, despite this being no more than them seeming to want to keep real-estate high is incredibly stupid.
3) The Forerunners didn't think as to why the Human Empire started to just take entire systems and planets for no apparent reason other than dickery--and rather than try and open negotiations or do some sort of investigation as to why the humans were suddenly becoming so aggressive, they pull a knee-jerk reaction and then decide that because the human government ordered all of this and probably not the majority...they fucked them ALL over, showing that their morality is rather questionable (ie, name one major nation today that would basically bomb the fuck out of an entire nation for the sake of their leaders).
Not to mention that there is still fact that Guilty Spark declared humans to be Forerunners, and books are lower canon than games, so... that book isn't canon.

Althought, for rest of points:
1) Yes, fighting two wars at once is stupid, especially when any of rivals individually can give you pretty hard time, but they were desperate. And incredibly stupid to boot - they should have just asked Forerunners for help.
2) Forerunners in that story... well, remember Mantle and Halo 3 Terminals? Mantle is Forerunner version of Prime Directive. And they just disregarded it.
3) It seems that humans were agressive even before that, Flood just pushed them harder.
4) US, China, Russia, European Union... any today's superpower, and most of smaller states too.

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Re: United Federation of Planets vs Flood

Post by Shadowhunter4_1 » Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:04 pm

1underestimating how the flood work
2the humans would not trust the forerunners the humans knew about the precursors wanting to give them the mantle but the forerunners got jealous and attacked the precursors the humans know this an hate the forerunner
3old humans had to modify the flood to attack eachother but had to sacrifice 30% to do it tho

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