That has nothign to do with the scimitar incident. So I fail to see why you bringing it up radicaly changes the fact that IMperium ships are floating gunplatforms designed to hit other floating gunplarforms.
I brought the Scimitar up as an example of what a heavily armed and well shielded battleship can do to Federation vessels from their own tech base.
The superior weaponry and shielding of an Imperial vessel means that combat isn't even going to be an issue.
Imperial ships are heavily armoured, heavily shielded space vessels, with flexible weaponry. you say "floating gun platform" as though its ridiculous to imagine.
Fly around pumling it while it harmless fires at you until the thing drops dead. You know use your strenght and thier weakness sort of thing.
With the quantative and qualitive superiority of Imperial weapons, and their own respectable acceleration, federation ships can flit about all they like. It won't really make a difference. A feddy ship could literally fire its phasers dry and not bother a Cruiser.
Dense objects, exotic matierals and weapons emitters havn't been shown stopping transporters, care to cite refrence?
As both likely denser materials and exotic material, that "victurium alloy", the veins of some ore running through the hills in Insurrection.
Alien technology in the from of the Iconian building as well.
naturally occurring low intensity radiation, x-ray bursts, solar radiation of other types etc all interfere. Are you honestly claiming that they are going to be able to beam bombs into something equipped not only with a giant power source, but with energy shields, ECM, superconducting armour plates etc ?
I find that hideously unlikely.
Eh the ships weapons were decent enough I don';t even know if it had torpedoes.
52 disrupter banks and the power to use them is probably more than enough to crush any other vessel barring Borg cubes.
Why? Able to outmanvuer the ENt could avoid the bulk of the scimitar fire while it would recieve nealry all of it. Doesn't matter how big your guns are if they never connect.
Imperial ships are literally studded with weapons, and they don't fight like Trek ships, i.e. a few beams, a few small torpedo volleys, they pour out sustained firepower, they don't even need to hit the Federation ships (who doctrinally don't flit about like mad things, they knife fight BTW) very much
A) what's wrong with the federation?
The borg rape them, as will the Imperium
B) could that be Borg cubes are 1. rarely seriously damaged, and 2. when they are we blow them to bits?
You are basically nothing of use here, Borg cubes manage to operate with 70% of their mass gone (perhaps you might prove that sometime ?) supposedly.
So what ? An Imperial Cetacean class transport can do the same.
Not in of itself no. It would have to repair itself but if your fleet was wipedo ut and left 30% it could still complete it's mission and would only be delayed. That is impressive and I'll bet far beyond an Imperiam vessels ablility.
I dont' honestly know how to respond to this. I might start by pointing out that the Federation don't have any borg cubes, and are unlikely to be able to even bring down the shields of an Imperial vessel without massive superiority of numbers. with the offensive doctrine of Imperial vessels to operate in battlefleets, this is unlikely to occur.
Because feds ships you know manuver. Quite nicely I migh add. Hell warpstrafe them if need be. But serously why do you belive weapons designed to hit far larger vessels that are floating bricks can suddenly hit far smaller vessels that are far,far,far more capable of evading enemy fire?
Warpstrafe simply does not occur. Not once does this happen against a target not at warp, the relative velocity makes it impossible, and given its a tactic of immense tactical benefit, why on earth does it never happen ?
Like I mentioned before, main lance arrays can shoot down fighters and torpedoes, something hundreds of meters long isn't exactly going to be impossible to hit, particularly when it lacks stealth capabilties.
So whats so bad about the ergonomics of a phaser rifle?
I've only ever seen one decently designed weapon in ST, the phaser rifle in First Contact,
Simply put, if it resembles a modern firearm, its probably got pretty decent ergonomics, if it looks anything like the entire range of Federation weaponry up till first contact, its bloody awful.
No trigger guards, shoulder stocks, iron sights, scopes, ergonmically designed handles.
Or the new curved grip phaser pistols?
Never seen them, if they are from enterprise, then its pretty obvious it doesn't mitigate the massive step backwards everything took.
As far as accuracy goes yes feds have the upper hand between off axis aiming, target aquistions and the fact that unlike Stormies they hit the freaking target.
Off axis aiming probably contributes to the rather casual way Federation personel fire their weapons, the fact that their accuracy, even at close range is awful doesn't speak well for the value of the auto aiming technology.
You should probably do some reading about modern warfare with automatic weapons, the ratio og weapons fire to casualties isn't exactly 1:1
Your a little all over the place.
If I am, its because I'm fed up of meaningless answers.
Do you want to know which weapon has the greater effective yeild?
Phasers vapourise soft humans, they mildly char anything else.
Do the math.
Phasers can blast thorugh armor designed to stop lasguns
In combat, the Federation doesn't use such a setting, clearly due to power requirements, or perhaps duration of the beam fired.
The "kill" setting for a phaser is the mild burn/taser shot, which will do jack to an armoured individual.
The same cannot be said for a lasguns effects on Federation troops and military personel, who don't come with shields as standard. Or any real military organisation at all for that matter.
Simply put, the Feddies will be shooting single beams at maxium power to hurt the line infantry of the Imperium, who will be trying not to laugh themselves to death when shooting back, or sitting inside a Battletank.
hile lasguns might not blast thorugh armor designed to stop phasers
No such armour even exists to my knowledge,
If your simply saying that a you don't need to go around vaping people to kill what is your point? I fully understand you don't need to vape people to kill them, hence settings and 1 is kill not vape. However origanly you said Lasguns, one of the weakest guns in WH40K IIRC would easily overpower any defensive shields meant for phasers because of thier power. I've proven that assertion wrong.
I said that powerful energy weapons of the Imperial guard would counter energy shields, the "kill" setting of phasers isn't exactly energetic, and certainyl wouldn't require multi-megawatt power to produce.
Ergo, energy shields designed to protect against lethal phaser fire shouldn't particularly inhibit lasguns.
Failing that, the Imperium has got plenty of bigger guns, it can probably deploy more battletanks to a location than the federation can dedicated troops.
So? Hit the right setting and voila it blows a nice crater in the wall. I have never denied this. It just isn't setting one which for some reason you disagree with.
No I don't.
While I can't think of a combat refrence, the feat is totally possible refrence when Archer used a phase pistol to burn thorugh a tree limb.
Archer swept a continues beam through a tree, in a raking fashion, mimicing automatic fire, ?
Your less dead via technobabbl
why should technobabble even work when its not shooting incompetant materials like flesh and cloth ?
Show me an armoured human being disintigrated by a phaser, otherwise its unlikely even Level Sparkly 12 is going to be particularly useful.
Hell, in DS9 they try burning through a door with phaser/disruptor weaponry, and fail miserably, energy weapon resistent armour plating and weave should do nicely, never mind heavy powered plate.
By the way the 5 megajoul refrence blows the rock to bits, not magicly disaper but blows it up to bits
And such mechanisms are not used for the Sparkly setting, makes you wonder why doesn't it ?
So it's not even technobabble.
The fact that some settings display some evidence of a particularly energy input does not endow any other setting with such an input.
or is "it's only a movie/tv show" only valid for imperial blasters :)
Yeah, because that was exactly what I was implying prat.
You mean those sparks that are a natural byproduct of blasters? Look you shot a guy with a blaster thier sparks, smoke but at the end of it all he has a tiny hole not a massive one
I think its obvious to even the most daft people that damaging ARMOUR is a little harder than damaging bare flesh.
I honestly don't get what you think you are proving with the rest of it.
Yeah self targeting guns and stablizers who would want that. I want gun that nothing more then a trigger and a barrel. :)
Lasguns are combat effective at ranges of hundreds of meters, people with phasers equipped with stabilisers and auto-aiming miss at less than ten meters.
They don't do that bad. Sure thier not supermarksmen or anything but thier generaly competent by sci-fi standards.
If auto-aiming and stabilisers produce the Trek weaponries accuracy, then they aren't exactly better off than if they all used flintlocks.
At least they'd kick the shit out of the borg next time they fought them on a starship
I assume they look more gunlike?
Do you honestly not see how this is a good thing ?
Same for feds. Unless Imperium guardmen are all super elite marksmen I doubt thier will be a huge advantage in accuracy by any side.
It isn't the same for Feds, for a start, the fact that Worf hefts a shoulder fired weapon with the effective yield of a small grenade launcher in Insurrection for shooting at range, instead of sweeping a phaser rifle in an arc on "kill" or widebeaming on "kill" or widebeaming on a high setting indicates that the weapons aren't capable of such actions either at that range or at all.
An Imperial guardsmen would have gunned them down with his accurate at hundreds of meters fully automatic rifle. And if he wanted to use a heavier weapon, he'd have had access to grenade launchers with proper sights, or heavy tankbusting plasma rifles etc.
Stomries have crud equipment on a soldier level.
They have a HUD, they have a networking and datalinking at a tactical and strategic level, visual sensors, regulated environment and NBC protection.
They have EXCELLENT equipment.
Useless armor that can't stop a blast shot on any known setting
Shoot a US marine with his own rifle, you'll probably kill him.
Body armour increases the chance of survival, and the severity of injuries.
I think its pretty likely that ST armour is probably proof against shrapnel, solid munitions of lower calibers, stun settings etc, but its always easier to destroy than it is protect.
Compare the Imperials and the Imperium with the pyjama suits of the Federation.
or arrows,
I'm pretty sure I saw arrows rattling of standard stormy battle armour in ROTJ you know.
As well as big rocks.
limit field of vision and movement
Given that they have a HUD, its pretty likely that the stupid farmboy didn't know how to use his complex piece of equipment wouldnt' you say ?
Being able to see in the dark > being blind in the dark, with a bare head.
As for limiting movement, I'd be suprised if it does to any real degree, even the heavier cloney armour allowed them to move around unimpeded.
Any possible approch I suggest owuld be merely (at best) a theroy of what i would do with thier abilites. I merely remind you that not everything can be solved by a big enough gun and if you underestimate people because of that, your going to get burned badly. Have I ever said it would easy to take out a Titan? No. Would it be easier to brute force it to death? Hell yes. Is that more likely to succeed? Again yes. However to simply say they could never ever do anything to hurt us when these guys have proven to be ultra resourcful at jury-rigging technolagies is simply stupid.
You can't come up with a damn thing can you ?
You listed those alongside simply technolagy so when has simply having technolagy ever byitself caused a problem.
I think you've misunderstood me, deliberately or otherwise.
Sure if you carry one in your backback I couldn't beam out from under you. I assume you are refering to the mech thing's reactor of course.
Or a space marine, or an Imperial guard plasma gunner..or a heavy tank...
They didn't employ ECM IIRC. They simply jammed it. WHich I freely admit is possible, trek races routinly jam thier enemies transporters during battle.
Um, jamming IS ECM.
You wouldn't die right off IIRC but would have a shortened lifespan, weaklness, etc. The Imperial guard could go thier but would start dieing off and would not be in shape to fight. Plus considering no human from the Enterprise would dare touch the sureface I doubt thier is a magic cure for it either. So hyperradition while blocking transporters seems a tad useless in a tatical engament.
Its evidence of low intensity radiation blocking transporters, frankly its just more evidence that tactically, Transporters are not really feasible as the magic bomb dispenser you seem to think they are.
Feds can hack into mines floating in subspace with nothing more then a tricorder.
When the Imperium builds its technology to even accept subspace transmissions, I'll let you know.
Otherwise, its actually far more likely that Federation vessels will be crippled by information warfare, they have a history of it I'm told, from alien satellites to rogue holodeck programs, to remote access from alien civilisations.
