Black Star vs Black Star

[User1390]

The Minbari ship Black star vs the Eldar Shadow class cruiser the Black Star

The Shadow class cruiser is typical of all Eldar capital ships. Its multiple solar sails
give it tremendous speed and manoeuvrability, able to outrun even the escort ships
of other races. The most infamous Shadow class cruiser to fight in the Gothic War was
the Black Star. Commanded by the so-called Prince Conanmaol of the Executioners,
the Black Star accounted for several Imperial capital ships and the loss of a
considerable tonnage of Imperial merchant shipping. The Black Star eluded destruction
for the entirety of the Gothic War and continues to lead attacks from the depths of the
Graildark Nebula to this day. The Fhianna Rethol is noted as the first Eldar ship in the
Gothic system to be captured relatively intact. However, even as the hulk was being
studied at Argante Station, a flotilla of Eldar escorts struck. Punching through the few
system defence ships, the Eldar launched several torpedo salvoes at the docked vessel,
obliterating it entirely, before disengaging at high speed.


the minbari and the eldar both come out of hyperspace and warp space within weapons range of each other.

bttle of the stealthy space elves!

[Khas]

Uh, yeah, gotta give this one to the Eldar. Why? Two proximity blasts from two 2 MT nukes were enough to destroy a Minbari starship. Then the Eldar proceed to wreak havoc all over the B5 Milky Way until the Vorlons (or Shadows) come in.

[The Dude]

Aye, Eldar (spits in disgust). Nothing in B5 really compares to WH40K save perhaps some of the First Ones.

[Mike DiCenso]

*sigh* Yet another insanely lop-sidded Versus debate scenario. Hell, as The Dude points out, only a handful of First Ones from B5 could compete against the WH40K factions, the Shadows and Vorlons would get their butts handed to them.
-Mike

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

*sigh* Yet another insanely lop-sidded Versus debate scenario. Hell, as The Dude points out, only a handful of First Ones from B5 could compete against the WH40K factions, the Shadows and Vorlons would get their butts handed to them.
-Mike

As far as im aware the vorlons have multiple fleets that number in the millions if not billions, they just do not use them during the series due to not needing to.

And i cannot remember what they are called but the shadows or vorlons have tech that they just fire at a planet and it starts pumping out warship after warship made from the planet, along with other rather impressive tech that operates literally on a galactic scale like the eye of za'ha'dum tech.

The walkers have pretty awesome tech and knowledge as well.

[The Dude]

Where is all this then? Certainly not in the series.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Where is all this then? Certainly not in the series.

Its in the books by JMS and others that have been given full canon status by JMS.

Even the largest shadow ships we see in the series were essentially new born babies compared to what is described in the books as a "primordial battle crab" that can sometimes be millions of years old and capable of literally slicing planets apart.

The shadows actually got the idea of using younger and faster to construct ships as well as other race members as cpu's in them from the first war against the thirdspace aliens and how those aliens controlled members of other races. Oh and FYI the technomages resulted from the shadows trying to make younger race cpu's but they rebeled and galen manages to become considerably more powerful than normal technomages in a story that runs paralell to and actually involving when sheridan was on za'ha'dum.

The "worm" tech i could not recall literally gets fired at planets and begins constructing/growing warship after warship from the material it finds.

The huge vorlon fleets that each consist of millions of ships are said to be mostly powered down and dormant due to them not being needed during the series.

The Walkers of Sigma-957 are said to be perhaps the most knowledgable of the first ones we see as they are the ultimate explorers and have a goal the pretty much involves knowing everything, they have the ability to travel to and still do explore the dimension the thirdspace aliens are from along with many other dimensions.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Just to make matters worse, are we looking at an Eldar ship that has the illusion defense system, the thing that makes them appear as bizarre clouds of blur or something?

This is terribly one sided, indeed. Nevermind, next one will be good.

[The Dude]

Man, that EU stuff doesn't fit into the established universe at all.

[Mike DiCenso]

I'm afraid I have to agree with The Dude on this one since if there were battlecrabs with the power to slice planets in two, there would be little reason for the Shadows to made use of their planet killer machine that literally wraps itself around the target world and bombards it with gigaton range missiles, rendering it lifeless.
-Mike

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

I'm afraid I have to agree with The Dude on this one since if there were battlecrabs with the power to slice planets in two, there would be little reason for the Shadows to made use of their planet killer machine that literally wraps itself around the target world and bombards it with gigaton range missiles, rendering it lifeless.
-Mike

The shadow planet killer we see in the series was designed as a weapon of fear, mystery and intimidation more that a easy solution to popping a planet.

At least that was he explanation they gave for how it worked in the book along with the plague.

[Mike DiCenso]

All of that could describe a super-planet killer battlecrab. In fact, the super-battlecrab would far more frightening than any over-elaborate planet killing device, like the one we saw in Crusade. The latter one actually left a few survivors who were able to report on it, where the former method leaves none since the planet is effectly torn in half by the cutting beam in seconds.
-Mike

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

All of that could describe a super-planet killer battlecrab. In fact, the super-battlecrab would far more frightening than any over-elaborate planet killing device, like the one we saw in Crusade.

Tell that to JMS.

He figured that a cloud covering a m-class planet then moving away leaving a dead lifeless rock behind was more fearful than a ship with a big gun.

Remember it took a whitestars advanced sensors to actually find out what was going on inside the cloud before that they had no idea what it did, ivonova even said she thought the vorlon planet killers were scrary until she saw the shadow cloud.

And it took the excaliburs sensors to be able to see the actual grid within the cloud.

The latter one actually left a few survivors who were able to report on it.

When did the shadow planet killer in "a call to arms" or B5 ever leave survivors?.

[Mike DiCenso]

As much as I respect JMS' analysis abilities and opinons, I cannot say that I necessarily agree on this one point, except to say that the only serious advantage the Shadow PK has that is really useful above a super-battlecrab is the ability to completely surround even a large enemy fleet numbering in the thousands of capital ships and destroy it.

From the episode "The Summoning":

"Reports coming in from survivors indicate mass destruction on a planetary scale. We continue to need medical ships, transports, anything that can fly. We're in special need of atmosphere-capable shuttles to evacuate survivors from the ground."

This is concerning the Vorlon PK's effects.

In "A Call to Arms", while their where no surviors on Daltron 7 by the time the Excalibur arrived there, they did pick up the signal from a Drazi distress becon and found the bodies of the dead people there as the attack had occured weeks prior to their arrival.
-MIke

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

From the episode "The Summoning":

"Reports coming in from survivors indicate mass destruction on a planetary scale. We continue to need medical ships, transports, anything that can fly. We're in special need of atmosphere-capable shuttles to evacuate survivors from the ground."

This is concerning the Vorlon PK's effects.

I remember that about one of the planets or moons around a planet the vorlons attacked, but not regarding the shadow PK.

As much as I respect JMS' analysis abilities and opinons, I cannot say that I necessarily agree on this one point, except to say that the only serious advantage the Shadow PK has that is really useful above a super-battlecrab is the ability to completely surround even a large enemy fleet numbering in the thousands of capital ships and destroy it.

I kinda expected summat a bit more interesting from the shadows in the regards to a PK as well and a primordial BC would have been a cool addition to the series even if it had been just mentioned.

I liked the idea that it stripped the planet of useful materials ect ect to refuel/replenish itself though and would have liked that to be expanded upon rather than it using nukes.

In "A Call to Arms", while their where no surviors on Daltron 7 by the time the Excalibur arrived there, they did pick up the signal from a Drazi distress becon and found the bodies of the dead people there as the attack had occured weeks prior to their arrival.
-MIke

The distress beacon was from the drazi and he was in a ship in space while the cloud did its stuff, he landed on the planet after it was gone and then got killed by the drakh who returned to check the results, it was his body they found cos the thief cut open his under arm nut sack to retrieve it :O.