Enterprise NX-01 vs Normandy SR-2 (Mass Effect)

[User1401]

The Enterprise and her crew face the Normandy SR-2 from Mass Effect in deep space. Starting distance is 300 kilometers. Which ship comes out on top?

[Mike DiCenso]

Unfortunately I'm not up on the ME fluff material. While the Normandy and the NX-01 are similar sized vessels, there is nothing listed on the site you references to about the SR-2 being quantified as far as firepower or anything else is concerned. We know that the NX-01 has phase cannons rated at a a normal maximum output of 500 gigajoules each, and the estimates for photonic torpedoes is in the megaton range.

So do you have anything concrete as far as references and estimates for the SR-2?
-Mike

[User1401]

Well, the Normandy's Thanix cannon gives it firepower at least equivalent to a cruiser in Mass Effect, probably higher, and that should put it in the low kiloton range.

[Jedi Master Spock]

Unfortunately I'm not up on the ME fluff material. While the Normandy and the NX-01 are similar sized vessels, there is nothing listed on the site you references to about the SR-2 being quantified as far as firepower or anything else is concerned. We know that the NX-01 has phase cannons rated at a a normal maximum output of 500 gigajoules each, and the estimates for photonic torpedoes is in the megaton range.

So do you have anything concrete as far as references and estimates for the SR-2?
-Mike

And by "normal maximum output" we mean to say that they have been used at a x10 overload setting pretty frequently from pretty much the day after they were installed. That's a nominal 5 terajoules each.

However, I'm only aware of one episode - "Cold Station 12" - in which the NX-01 tries to target another ship at a range exceeding 300 kilometers, and in "Stormfront," a damaged NX-01 has trouble locking onto a stationary target at 100 kilometers. The Normandy could easily have a range advantage here.

Both the Normandy and NX are going to vary substantially in performance depending on what options are installed. The Normandy is upgraded substantially over the ME game, and the NX is similarly upgraded substantially over the ENT series.

[User1401]

The NX's phase cannons regularly operate on an overload setting? Where is that stated?

This battle is between the NX and the SR-2 at their fullest capability, with all upgrades.

[Mike DiCenso]

The overload upgrade that JMS is refering to comes from the first season episode "Silent Enemy". Chief Engineer Trip Tucker finds a way to overload the ship's newly installed phase cannons to 10x their normal maximum rating by directly feeding power in from the ship's impulse engines. This modification done on the fly had the excess power channeled ino the grav plating on couple decks, shorting them out.

However it is implied strongly in the later episode "Horizon", the ship of the title is a small cargo vessel that belong's to NX-01 helmsman Travis Mayweather's family. It is in danger of attack by pirates, so Mayweather has mods done to the ship similar to those done on the NX-01 to boost the power of it's plasma cannon weapons. Given how relatively easily those mods were done, and the lack of negative effects on the ECS Horizon in the final confrontation with the pirate ship, it stands to reason that Tucker later refined the phase cannon mods into something that was a little less traumatic to make use of.

So yes, the NX-01 probaly can and does use the "Silent Enemy" phase cannon power boost mod.
-Mike

[User1401]

Does Mayweather explicitly state these are the same mods as used on the phase cannons? I ask because I find it rather flimsy reasoning to assume that an upgrade done by a person to a weapon means that a different upgrade to a different, more advanced weapon by a different person was used regularly. The upgrade to the freighter's plasma cannon may have just been done out of Mayweather's knowledge of the weapon from his own time on such a freighter- not knowledge of Tucker's overload mod to the phase cannons.

[The Dude]

From what I recall of the ME universe, the only hard figure is for a SA Dreadnoughts main gun:

a main gun capable of accelerating a 20 kilogram slug to 1.3% the speed of light (4025 km/s) for a kinetic energy yield equivalent to 38 kilotons

[Mike DiCenso]

Does Mayweather explicitly state these are the same mods as used on the phase cannons? I ask because I find it rather flimsy reasoning to assume that an upgrade done by a person to a weapon means that a different upgrade to a different, more advanced weapon by a different person was used regularly. The upgrade to the freighter's plasma cannon may have just been done out of Mayweather's knowledge of the weapon from his own time on such a freighter- not knowledge of Tucker's overload mod to the phase cannons.

From "Silent Enemy", Reed and Tucker discussing the mods which are later implemented to do an overload of the phase cannons:

TUCKER: What were you trying to do?
REED: Bypass the EPS grid.
TUCKER: Why?
REED: Well, we could draw power for the cannons directly from the impulse engines.
TUCKER: Are you trying to make this blow up in your face?
REED: The relays were rated to handle that much power.
TUCKER: What if there's a surge?
REED: I've thought of that. These inverters were designed to cut in at the first sign of an overload.
TUCKER: We've got to do this by the book, or we'll end up blowing a bigger hole in ourselves than the bad guys.
REED: I've run a dozen simulations. It's an acceptable risk.
TUCKER: When it comes to modifying ship systems, why don't you let the Chief Engineer decide what's an acceptable risk?
REED: Sir, if we do this by the book, those aliens are likely to be back before we're done.
TUCKER: I want to get this job done as quickly as you do, Lieutenant, but not if it means taking shortcuts that could get our people killed.
REED: Yes, sir.


From "Horizon":

TRAVIS: (studying the schematic on the monitor) I've seen this kind of engine
configuration before. It's not that different from a Mazarite ship.

RIANNA: Mazarite?

TRAVIS: We had some trouble with them. We managed to knock out their engines with our phase cannons.

PAUL: We don't have phase cannons.

TRAVIS: I can tie the plasma turrets directly into the impulse engines. Lieutenant Reed did that and it increased our yield by eighty percent.

So yes, it is the "overload" power from "Silent Enemy".
-Mike

[User1401]

Tucker was obviously apprehensive of the "upgrade", and that's not a good indication he would make regular use of it. You don't even have solid evidence that the upgrade to the freighter's plasma cannons was kept after their fight, let alone the NX's phase cannons. Mayweather, not being a trained engineer like Tucker, may have just done something Tucker would have called very foolish and risky.

[Mike DiCenso]

Yet that issue did not crop up on the Horizon. The only reason Paul (Travis' brother and captain of the ship) did not want it installed was because it was Travis' idea, and Paul was resentful of Travis having left the Horizon and his family behind to go and join Starfleet. So there is little reason if Tucker and Reed together later on were able to shunt off the recoil in a less traumatic way, and it seems they did as the normal overload would result in a x10 yield whereas this later version gives only at best a x2 increase.

Even if it is not a normal use kind of thing, you are looking at around 1 TJ per shot of the forward phase cannon battery. If they have Reed's mod in place and make use of it, and they do as per the evidence provided, then they can do between x2 and x10 that yield. It is easy enough to impliment, minutes at worst as per the end of "Silent Enemy" and the events of "Horizon" (Travis did those mods to the ship by himself), then you can easily expect it in use, especially post "The Expanse" with the firepower upgrades, which include the photonic torpedoes.
-Mike

[User1401]

Tucker and Reed applied the mod outside of a combat situation, when they had the oppurtunity to think it through and make the appropriate modifications. It's not like there's an "Overload" switch on Reed's console. If they were abruptly put into a combat situation, they would start at the normal setting, which is 500 gigajoules. And unless you can directly tie post "The Expanse" upgrades to the phase cannons, that's not proof of regularly improved firepower either.

[Mike DiCenso]

No, not all of them. Here's how the end of "Silent Enemy" goes down:

REED: Even if these cannons had been installed at Jupiter Station, they wouldn't be any more effective than they are now.
ARCHER: What about yesterday? I saw you blow something up the size of Mount McKinley.
REED: Yes sir, but that was due to an overload.

[Bridge]

ARCHER: Can you overload them again?

[Armoury]

REED: Sir, after the damage from the first time the plasma recoil would probably knock out two decks.

[Bridge]

ARCHER: Can you overload them again?

[Armoury]

REED: I believe so.

[Bridge]

ARCHER: I'd rather knock out two decks than surrender this ship.

[Armoury]

REED: But sir.
TUCKER: Hold on a minute. I think there's a way to handle the recoil.

[Bridge]

REED [OC]: How?
TUCKER [OC]: All that excess energy's got to go somewhere.

[Armoury]

TUCKER: Why not put it to use?
TRAVIS [OC]: Three thousand metres.
TUCKER: If we repolarise the gravity plating to absorb the recoil,

[Bridge]

TUCKER [OC]: Then we can shunt the energy to structural integrity.
ARCHER: Sounds good to me.

[Armoury]

REED: The grav-plating wasn't designed

[Bridge]

REED [OC]: To withstand that much force.
ARCHER: We all understand the risks. Get started.
REED [OC]: Aye, sir.
TRAVIS: One thousand metres.
ARCHER: Malcolm?

[Armoury]

REED: Stand by. Trip? We're ready, sir.

[Bridge]

ARCHER: Then fire! (two beams scrape the ship, their shields ripple and fall, a couple of explosions are seen)
T'POL: (Enterprise rocks too) Their shields are failing.
ARCHER: Torpedoes! (two hits to the aft of the ship and it turns away, trailing smoke or whatever) Bridge to the Armoury. Everything okay down there?

[Armoury]

TUCKER: We blew out the plasma relays on B deck but it's nothing we can't take care of. What about our friends?
ARCHER [OC]: I have a feeling

[Bridge]

ARCHER: Their repairs are going to be a little more extensive.

[Armoury]

ARCHER [OC]: How'd the cannons hold up?
REED: Fairly well.

[Bridge]

REED [OC]: I'll have them back online within the hour

See? Minutes, and why take out the overload mods to the relays when it is such a useful thing? No one even states to do so. If anything, they'd be looking to make improvements!
-Mike

[User1401]

And yet, after only a few shots, the phase cannons went offline. That's not something you want in the middle of a combat situation.

[Mike DiCenso]

Which is why they went for the 80% increase rather than a 1,000% yield on the overload.
-Mike