Starfleet Jedi

So, i realize that a thread involving an obscure series and SW isn't going to get much attention around here since no one will be taking SW's side. So let's change that to an obscure series vs. ST. That should at least spawn some form of response. And naturally, i'll be playing the rabid fanboy role for SG in this thread.

So, a pre-Anubis Goa'Uld Ha'Tak vs. a Galaxy-Class, who wins - and how?

l33telboi wrote:So, i realize that a thread involving an obscure series and SW isn't going to get much attention around here since no one will be taking SW's side.

Oh, not necessarily. There are many sci-fi franchises depicting things that SW clearly outclasses.

How strong is a Ha'Tak?

Are the Ha'Tak those ships with the gold pyramid in them? Those didn't strike me as being all that tough, especially against something that can dish out ~4.5 GT/sec in phaser fire. The Ori ships are another matter.

Is that 4.5 GT/S a high end? For how long such a beam can be fired?
The high end shield figure for an old Ha'tak seems to be able to take it to hundreds of GT total, nearly nearing the teraton level.

What are Trek shields worth on a Galaxy ship?

I think he is referring to the calculations shown elsewhere in this forum and several others for that matter, about the TNG episode “Masks”, where a phaser blast at full power from the saucer main ventral array was rated at about 2 Gigatons per second. Taking into account all the others phaser arrays on the Enterprise D you get something like 4.5 Gigatons per second in phaser firepower for a Galaxy class starship. Since this represents normal full power phaser firepower a Galaxy class can sustain it almost indefinitely, as long as the ship remains operational.

The shields of a Ha’Tak mothership can take low Teraton level firepower? I don’t remember seeing any calculation that high before, could you reference from where that figure is coming, episode, quote, etc.? That would be very helpful. About Trek shields on a Galaxy class starship you would have to question our more expert friends in here.

AFT wrote: The shields of a Ha’Tak mothership can take low Teraton level firepower? I don’t remember seeing any calculation that high before, could you reference from where that figure is coming, episode, quote, etc.? That would be very helpful. About Trek shields on a Galaxy class starship you would have to question our more expert friends in here.

The direct figure comes from a calculation from when a damaged Ha'Tak sits in the corona of a blue giant for a few hours.

Indirectly though, there are many ways to see that they are indeed powerful. They can take multiple blasts from other Ha'Taks, who have a minimum of 200MT of firepower. Though probably more after the whole Anubis ordeal.

You can also figure out it even more indirectly. A Ha'Tak and a Wraith Mothership are able to basically dish out about as much damage to a 304, and we know that Wraith have some serious firepower when taking into account that they would have been able to pull down the shields of Atlantis in mere days.

AFT wrote: The shields of a Ha’Tak mothership can take low Teraton level firepower? I don’t remember seeing any calculation that high before, could you reference from where that figure is coming, episode, quote, etc.? That would be very helpful. About Trek shields on a Galaxy class starship you would have to question our more expert friends in here.

The direct figure comes from a calculation from when a damaged Ha'Tak sits in the corona of a blue giant for a few hours.

Indirectly though, there are many ways to see that they are indeed powerful. They can take multiple blasts from other Ha'Taks, who have a minimum of 200MT of firepower. Though probably more after the whole Anubis ordeal.

You can also figure out it even more indirectly. A Ha'Tak and a Wraith Mothership are able to basically dish out about as much damage to a 304, and we know that Wraith have some serious firepower when taking into account that they would have been able to pull down the shields of Atlantis in mere days.

Yes, I was referring to the "Masks" example. As for GCS shields, we get very conflicting data. Often they can only take a few direct hits from AQ/BQ ships, other times they seem pretty resilient, same thing with their hulls. Since they can dish out low to mid GT (phasers and torps) damage per second, I'd say high GT level shielding is reasonable.

Stargate versus are rarely done in my experience, because SG is so damn inconsistent. Versus are nearly impossible unless you resolve the inconsistencies. We can see here: http://forum.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=86712

The go from teratons to sub kilotons. There's no clear way to resolve this either. IMO though, the whole concept that a backwater planet like Earth being able to beat the Gou'ald would imply they can't be that impressive.

Quite true that there are a lot of inconsistenies. But they're not unresolvable. The biggest problems when it comes to SG related debates is that there are always those who pick the minimum and then parade it over every single other piece of info there is, not even trying to resolve the problem.

But, there are ways to make all the pieces fit.

l33telboi wrote:Quite true that there are a lot of inconsistenies. But they're not unresolvable. The biggest problems when it comes to SG related debates is that there are always those who pick the minimum and then parade it over every single other piece of info there is, not even trying to resolve the problem.

But, there are ways to make all the pieces fit.

So how would you make them fit? I can't. We pretty much have canon proof of both. It's like ICS vs. SW movies but both are at the same canon level.

Nonamer wrote: So how would you make them fit? I can't. We pretty much have canon proof of both. It's like ICS vs. SW movies but both are at the same canon level.

This depends quite a lot on exactly what incidents you had in mind of course. Give me an example and i'll do my best to make them fit.

*Error*

l33telboi wrote:

AFT wrote: The shields of a Ha’Tak mothership can take low Teraton level firepower? I don’t remember seeing any calculation that high before, could you reference from where that figure is coming, episode, quote, etc.? That would be very helpful. About Trek shields on a Galaxy class starship you would have to question our more expert friends in here.

The direct figure comes from a calculation from when a damaged Ha'Tak sits in the corona of a blue giant for a few hours.

Indirectly though, there are many ways to see that they are indeed powerful. They can take multiple blasts from other Ha'Taks, who have a minimum of 200MT of firepower. Though probably more after the whole Anubis ordeal.

You can also figure out it even more indirectly. A Ha'Tak and a Wraith Mothership are able to basically dish out about as much damage to a 304, and we know that Wraith have some serious firepower when taking into account that they would have been able to pull down the shields of Atlantis in mere days.

And on the Wraith, I've been reconsidering a few things about the mechanics of a ZPM, which in the end, can largely increase the Wraith power drainage by many orders of magnitude.
Point being that their weapons are certainly not full DET, at least not the funky things they've been firing at Atlantis and at the satellite.
That is, if you've seen my quick calcs in the hiveship thread at Gateworld, with a complete planetary destruction this already reaches very high, that's 3.125 PT of power drainage per cannon (I insist on the drainage point, as I believe the weapon is tech specific), and that's on the basis that it would take nearly a week. McKay said days, this means a high end would be based on two days only. Plus that's Not on the basis that a ZPM can't kick our solar system twice, but just on a full planet busting premise.