Battle of Endor force-sub

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l33telboi
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Battle of Endor force-sub

Post by l33telboi » Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:58 pm

Since i was the first person to actually suggest starting this sub-forum i feel obligated to actually contribute something. And what better way then to start a new topic, eh?

So, take all the ships seen in the season nine finale of Stargate at the battle of the supergate and pit them against the GE force at Endor (Everything except the Deathstar). To clarify, all the ships at the supergate battle will be united against the GE at Endor. The SG fleet will basically take the place of the rebels.

Canon for this battle will be the SW movies and (naturally) the SG series.

What happens?

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Post by GStone » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:29 pm

If you mean the supergate that the Ori finally got through and not the first one that collapsed because of Vala, I'd say it would be almost the same. There were fewer capital ships at the supergate, but you did have an Asgard ship. A couple more ISDs would be taken out, but fighters would have been launched, so the Imperials would have launched more fighters and the ISDs might have been hit more by more missed shots. I don't know if the Asgard on that ship would have liked to use their beaming tech to transport bombs onto the ISDs. If they were fine with that, putting on by the core of the DS might have ended the fight quick.

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:25 pm

Tough one. That kind of debate is often run from SB, so it would be completely overkill.

But since ICS is ignored, we can return to more sensical numbers.

Numbers which would actually mean that those ISDs could really have problems dealing with the Ha'taks.

What do the ISDs have, based on movies, novelisation and even dare I say other EU sources?
Well, there's those low megaton mid TLs and say, at best, one digit gigaton heavy TLs.

Depending on the source you acknowledge, certain figures for Ha'tak shields (calculated in threads at SB.com) suggest shield ranges going up to very low teraton levels.
But, well, those were An Anicient's ones, and I couldn't agree with them considering that he's been using +2 km wide ha'taks for his calcs, which I consider to be wrong (or we could my estimation of a 8.5 km wide Ha'tak from episode enemies - talk about VFX fuck up).

Nevermind, the smaller figures provided were in the range of the three digit gigaton shielding.

However, that's assuming the shields work on a principle of some kind of super energy reservoir which can take up to this amount of energy before being down or whatever.
It's hard to actually know the way shields work in Stargate, but there's enough references about shields being down X percents to think that it's probably similar to Star Trek (I think, I'm not 100% sure how Trek shields work).

Shields have to be recharged. Knowing if they recharge while they're in use is an important point as well.

There weren't that many ships at the supergate in fact. Two or three 304s, a dwarfed O'neill and maybe ten Ha'taks at best (seven starting, plus three more from the Lucian Alliance).

Now, take a deep breath. With the constant harassment and forced feeding we'd to support since this new century from certain vocal warsies, people would not dare say the following:

Solely based on a comparison between Star Wars figures which were widely accepted before Saxton's wank, and the Stargate figures, a single Ha'tak is a decent match to an ISD. And that's for the pre-Anubis ones. The upgraded ones, if there's any left, woudl be logically able to take even more ISDs on their own.
In fact, looking at the figures we obtained, and eventually looking at that supposedly official Stargate Guide of whatever, we could even conclude that a Ha'tak would be able to deal with two ISDs.

The 304s however won't be particularily worth the fight, unless they manage to beam nukes pass ISDs shields. Firing nukes from their dorsal silos will be a waste of ordinance. Many missiles would hit, but others will be shot down. Above all, the problem is the yield.
Even if everytime the SGC has been facing the menace of an alien vessel, it decided to use gigaton level weaponry, either delivered on a rocket, or placed as a proximity mine, there's no real proof that they wouldn't use anything better than megaton nukes.
Of course, they can bring the gatebusters, assuming they have some (Landry argued they did have several of them when talking to Nerius), they'd just beam them next to an ISD and that would take care of it. And more if they're tightly packed.

The mini O'Neill, whatever it's supposed to be, would prove a worthy oponent. An O'Neill would largely outmatch any Ha'tak, so would really rape several ISDs.

Now, add the four Ori ships, and then it becomes really curbstomp.

There were around 40 ISDs, plus that comm ship and the Executor. We don't have strong figures for the number of canons for those ships, though we can get an approximative count for the ISDs, and use the upscaling volume factor between an ISD and the Executor to eventually come with a rough figure about the flagship's firepower.

That's the problem with SW. Without those EU guides, you don't have much info, but with those guides... you got a lot of non sense.

In the end, it doesn't matter. I give it to Stargate very easily.

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