The Ori somehow invade the ST universe, who wins?

[PunkMaister]

Say that the Ori and their crusading armies, Uber ships and so on invade the ST universe's Milky way galaxy. How does the UFP and other powers fight them off, which of the powers in the STverse is most likely to join Origin?


Well anyone?

[Mike DiCenso]

The Q win by simply snapping their fingers and turning the Ori into a line of action figures, models, and other merchandise.
-Mike

[PunkMaister]

The Q win by simply snapping their fingers and turning the Ori into a line of action figures, models, and other merchandise.
-Mike

Why would the Q even get involved? They never took sides during the wars with either the Borg or the Dominion. Furthermore Ascended I doubt ascended beings could be so easily dealt with as while they are certainly not as powerful as the Q is not like they are not without power and we know Qs can be killed as well so a war between super beings is anything but desirable unless you want the whole ST galaxy turned to ashes by the ghastly aftermath. I would not want to be anywhere near either the Q or the Ori if they went to fight each other, the Q would win but not without casualties. And we know that when a Q dies stars go nova and so on so there goes the neighborhood.

[GStone]

I thought that was the result of Q weapons having some effect bleeding into the universe from their dimension.

Well, I don't remember if anyone ever did any calcs for weapons and shields for the ori, but if nothing else, blowing up stars should take them out. I think the major powers would be willing to loose some of their own stars to get rid of them. With ground troops, there are transporters and theater shields. Since I don't know weapon calcs, I can't be sure how planet shields would hold up.

They use fighters to a degree, so they should be able to pick off them with most of the capital ships. Both fighters and capital ships use reaction drives for sublight, so the trek powers have that edge.

We've seen warp strafing, but the ori have an edge in FTL speeds over most of the trek milky way powers. Off hand, the ones that would be able to compete would be the voth and the borg in the speed department.

I'm not sure who would be likely to join the ori.

[l33telboi]

The biggest problem the Ori are going to face is the fact that the Milky Way galaxy of Star Trek is very different from the same galaxy in Stargate.

A) The planets under the UFP, and most other species, is not going to submit to Origin, because they'd see the religion for what it is -- A sham. So the Ori aren't going to do any conversions unless they actually stick a proverbial gun to their heads and tell them to start worshipping. In the Stargate galaxy, a lot of people were actually convinced by the Ori and their initial message of serving a higher power.

B) There's a lot more people and planets out there. The Stargate galaxy seems rather lightly developed. There aren't that many different sentient races, and those that do exist aren't that numerous (at least from what we've seen thus far). In Star Trek you can't seem to travel to a random star system without having a sentient species pop up. The Ori don't really have the soldiers and ships to quell such large numbers.

C) Military strength. The Star Trek galaxy is going to be filled with races that have their own military vessels. Just Starfleet alone should have vessels in the double-digit thousands, and the higher-tier races, like the Borg, would have a navy of millions of ships. By comparison, the Goa'uld merely had hundreds of ships, though one could probably make a case for the Goa'uld having an impressive re-build rate. Not enough to bridge the gap by a long shot though.

In short, the above is going to pretty much prevent a successful Ori invasion, if executed in a similar fashion as in Stargate. Of course, one could argue that they’d modify their strategies to better suit the new situation.

[sonofccn]

A) The planets under the UFP, and most other species, is not going to submit to Origin, because they'd see the religion for what it is -- A sham. So the Ori aren't going to do any conversions unless they actually stick a proverbial gun to their heads and tell them to start worshipping. In the Stargate galaxy, a lot of people were actually convinced by the Ori and their initial message of serving a higher power.

The Ori do have the advantage that they can perform feats of "magic" which even in the 24th century may be hard to explain. Also while the UFP planets might be able to see through it there are hundreds if not thousands of less advanced races who will join the Ori if only to get the protection and power boost Ori hand out. IIRC didn't they teach a roughly WWII level society how to build a kill sat that two shoted a Human warship?

B) There's a lot more people and planets out there. The Stargate galaxy seems rather lightly developed. There aren't that many different sentient races, and those that do exist aren't that numerous (at least from what we've seen thus far). In Star Trek you can't seem to travel to a random star system without having a sentient species pop up. The Ori don't really have the soldiers and ships to quell such large numbers.

They could always pull a Goa'uld (sp?) and convert a series of more primitive races for cannon fodder troops if they need garrison forces which more or less is what their army is composed of any way.

C) Military strength. The Star Trek galaxy is going to be filled with races that have their own military vessels. Just Starfleet alone should have vessels in the double-digit thousands, and the higher-tier races, like the Borg, would have a navy of millions of ships. By comparison, the Goa'uld merely had hundreds of ships, though one could probably make a case for the Goa'uld having an impressive re-build rate. Not enough to bridge the gap by a long shot though.

I quiet watching after the Ori became a Goa'uld knock off. Is there any information regarding Ori ship numbers, construction capabilities? Considering how they stomped ha'taks the Ori ships are going to take fleets to take down. Trek will need it's numbers in other words.

[GStone]

I would see it like this. The ori see what's in the STMW and send one ship and drop off a small number of priors at various planets with not as developed societies. Since they do phase partially out of the universe for FTL, it'd be confusing for a while. Probably long enough to get some priors on planets. They'd also drop off some technology to build a one time only use stargate, if not a stargate itself.

Like in Beachhead, they turn the planets into black holes and create supergates. I see them giving up many of their own worlds to make black holes. I see them doing this because they are sneaky and they did this tactic before. Regardless of the superpower involved in the fighting, the energy absorbing shields they have would be the best thing they'd have again the trek powers, aside from their ftl. It's unknown how long it'd take the borg to adapt to their shields and board them, if they chose to engage (and also what time frame they attack in). The voth, unless attacked directly might take a noninvolvement stance and see how things go.

It'd probably come down to the usual ones: klingons, what's left of the romulans and cardassians, the federation, the dominion with pockets from some of the guys that aren't as big. The bajoran wormhole would be an obvious target for the ori, since they probably found out about that during their initial survey.

Was beaming tech ever used against a prior?

[Enosh]

The biggest problem the Ori are going to face is the fact that the Milky Way galaxy of Star Trek is very different from the same galaxy in Stargate.

A) The planets under the UFP, and most other species, is not going to submit to Origin, because they'd see the religion for what it is -- A sham

honestly apart from humans I can't recal a a lot of other major species in ST that don't belive into some form of gods

klingons have that "space valhalla" thingy
ferengi have the hall full of money
bajorans have the prophets
hell even some vulcans still belive in gods
whatever troi is has gods, or atleast she belives into something iirc

well cardassians are the only one along with humans who are die hard atheist and even with humans it is probably debatable

the star trek universe has a lot more religion in it than one would assume given how humans are always fast to point out that there is no such thing as a god

[l33telboi]

In regards to point A), the reason I don't see the races of the Star Trek milky way accepting Origin is because of how they view the universe. Yes, the Priors can perform feats that would seem like magic to them, but they treat things like this as "science we can't comprehend yet" rather then magic. Just look at how they deal with entities like the Q and the wormhole aliens. This is why the Ori attempt to convince people that they're divine will fail, if all they can toss around a few, seemingly magical, tricks.

But yes, there would doubtlessly be some races out there that would join Origin. But will they continue believing in Origin after someone has shown them proof of the existence of other races that were capable of even more bizarre magical tricks?

Of course this doesn't mean the Ori can't try other avenues to assimilate people into Origin. Some races might be willing to worship the Ori in exchange for powerful weapons. A bit like how the Cardassians decided to join the Dominion in order to improve their standing in the galaxy. But the Cardassians also rebelled when they realized the alliance wasn't really to their own benefit. Something similar is very likely to happen with the Ori.

And generally it’s a very bad idea when your recently assimilated slave-races start outnumbering the core believers by a wide margin. One revolt could trigger a domino effect, toppling most of the Ori military.

As for industrial capabilities. The Ori have a ridiculous build-speed. In a little over a year they were fielding 'dozens' of motherships, along with fighter complements and the like. And their ability to build these things without a significant pre-established infrastructure is even more impressive. They literally had peasants in small huts construct their spaceships, with the oversight and doubtlessly magic-like assistance of the Priors.

But when it comes to firepower, I doubt the difference is big enough so that it can't be overcome by sheer numbers.

[Mr. Oragahn]

From what we've seen from the Ori, they're surely going to leave more than a few bruised cities if they're getting pissed off.

The most interesting part is that they'll be able to build stargates, and as such, guarantee faster travel across the galaxies and even beyond if needed.

Besides, it would be necessary to block the true Ori and likes of Q in this.

[GStone]

And generally it’s a very bad idea when your recently assimilated slave-races start outnumbering the core believers by a wide margin. One revolt could trigger a domino effect, toppling most of the Ori military.

This is what I was thinking when it came to the necromongers in riddick.

As for industrial capabilities. The Ori have a ridiculous build-speed. In a little over a year they were fielding 'dozens' of motherships, along with fighter complements and the like. And their ability to build these things without a significant pre-established infrastructure is even more impressive. They literally had peasants in small huts construct their spaceships, with the oversight and doubtlessly magic-like assistance of the Priors.

As much as their staffs probably are technological, I'd wager each staff is embued with 'ascended energy'. It wouldn't come from the ori themselves, but probably evolving the material to radiate it. It could be a general purpose thing of limited usage. The priors can do pretty much anything with it, but it's limited in scope. Because of a focus of limited technology and ingrained discipline to not deviate, they stick to simple things when going up against others: concussive waves, shields, viri, antibodies. When they do operate with advanced knowledge, it's of limited subjects. The ideas they come up with for what to do are at times limited to end results, like 'take some of me and make a deadly virus out of it'.

[PunkMaister]

In regards to point A), the reason I don't see the races of the Star Trek milky way accepting Origin is because of how they view the universe. Yes, the Priors can perform feats that would seem like magic to them, but they treat things like this as "science we can't comprehend yet" rather then magic. Just look at how they deal with entities like the Q and the wormhole aliens. This is why the Ori attempt to convince people that they're divine will fail, if all they can toss around a few, seemingly magical, tricks.

As stated other than UFP Earth and Colonies Humans plus the Cardassians actually most other races do have religions in one form or another. I have to say that Gene's disdain for spirituality is the one and only thing I do not like about the guy.

But yes, there would doubtlessly be some races out there that would join Origin. But will they continue believing in Origin after someone has shown them proof of the existence of other races that were capable of even more bizarre magical tricks?

The Ori only give you 2 choices convert tp their faith or perish. Truth be told most of those that ended following Origin in Stargate did so out of fear rather than because they actually believed, they were not true believers they were simply browbeaten into accepting Origin. apparently true faith is not required, simply that people prostrate so the Ori can feed off them and increase their power.

Of course this doesn't mean the Ori can't try other avenues to assimilate people into Origin. Some races might be willing to worship the Ori in exchange for powerful weapons. A bit like how the Cardassians decided to join the Dominion in order to improve their standing in the galaxy. But the Cardassians also rebelled when they realized the alliance wasn't really to their own benefit. Something similar is very likely to happen with the Ori.

The Cardassians paid a really heavy price for that as I recall, it would be 100 times worse if anybody turns against the Ori as they are not above wiping out entire worlds to do their bidding. They can easily wipe whoever they want not just with their ships but with plagues, flesh eating bugs, can turn people into zombies, Eatquakes you name it, not pretty at all! Is it any wonder that so many worlds in Stargate fell so quickly to them?

And generally it’s a very bad idea when your recently assimilated slave-races start outnumbering the core believers by a wide margin. One revolt could trigger a domino effect, toppling most of the Ori military.

Again keep in mind that is through sheer terror that the Ori keep people in line.

As for industrial capabilities. The Ori have a ridiculous build-speed. In a little over a year they were fielding 'dozens' of motherships, along with fighter complements and the like. And their ability to build these things without a significant pre-established infrastructure is even more impressive. They literally had peasants in small huts construct their spaceships, with the oversight and doubtlessly magic-like assistance of the Priors.

Now imagine what they can do with planets with actual infrastructure and industrial capability!

But when it comes to firepower, I doubt the difference is big enough so that it can't be overcome by sheer numbers.

You would need a massive number of ships to take on the Toilet ships and their fighters, plus they have faster FTL and only the Borg and some others could actually pursue them across the galaxy...

[Mr. Oragahn]

The Ori are so awesome that the Asgards crapped their pants and Death Stared their planet when three Ori ships arrived. :P
(not true but nevermind)

[PunkMaister]

The Ori are so awesome that the Asgards crapped their pants and Death Stared their planet when three Ori ships arrived. :P
(not true but nevermind)

Well the Asgard are or rather were more than a match for the followers of the Ori when it comes to ships and so on. When it comes to the actual Ascended Ori, the Asgard would not stand a chance that is for certain.

[Mike DiCenso]

klingons have that "space valhalla" thingy

While the Klingons may believe in Sto-vo-kor, this is also the same people who "slew their gods because they were "more trouble than they were worth", so trying to play god around them can backfire badly.

bajorans have the prophets

The Prophets are a real along with their evil Pah-wraith brethren, are a real, extremely powerful force in their own right.

hell even some vulcans still belive in gods

But will still be highly skeptical of those attempting to present themselves as gods.

whatever troi is has gods, or atleast she belives into something iirc

Betazeds may have some sort of polytheism since her mother Lwaxana at one exclaimed "Thank the four deities", but this doesn't signify any devotion any more than any average person who might exclaim "Thank God!" or "By Jove!".

well cardassians are the only one along with humans who are die hard atheist and even with humans it is probably debatable

Humans are secularist, but not necessarily without religion as Dr. Phlox in the 2150's noted he had attended Mass in Saint Peter's Square as well as several other religious celebrations. The thing is that most humans in Trek won't just start bowing down to the first thing that does some nifty magic tricks as evidenced by Kirk and his crew's highly skeptical reactions to Apollo in "Who Mourns for Adonais?".
-Mike